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Please stop posting that he shouldn't have invited her into his bed since that's apparently not what happened... read the OP and links BEFORE commenting. |
This situation is frustrating.
How big was the house such that the other person/people could not hear the girl screaming
for help? And also, elbows, fists, fingers, and fingernails are much harder than someone's sensitive facial organs...
She must have been smothered so much that she could not move her limbs or cry for help.
Another possibility is, and I'm not trying to be cute here at all is she was rather conflicted here. I wonder (as is natural at the age to be so curious) if she couldn't pull herself away from what was exciting and she kind of became conflicted.
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HTF did this guy get away with this? She should not have been sleeping at his place in the first place. Couldn't he have just locked his door?
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What I'm wondering is what she was doing in the house in the first place.
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On July 05 2011 22:40 Asrathiel wrote:
If he knew he'd done that regulary before, WHY THE FUCK did he let her share his bed? If she was sick and it was cooler, surely he could have swapped beds...
in the article they clearly say he was already asleep when she went to his bed..
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Inserting a penis into a vagina isn't the same as putting a hot dog in a bun. It takes a little coordination and there is some resistance, even if you are the most beautiful arousing man in the world.
Also I assume the girl was wearing clothing. I don't think it would be easy to stay asleep while someone is removing your clothes and penetrating your vagina. This story just doesn't sound real. And if she were struggling, he would have woken up.
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On July 06 2011 09:02 Ancestral wrote:
Inserting a penis into a vagina isn't the same as putting a hot dog in a bun. It takes a little coordination and there is some resistance, even if you are the most beautiful arousing man in the world.
Also I assume the girl was wearing clothing. I don't think it would be easy to stay asleep while someone is removing your clothes and penetrating your vagina. This story just doesn't sound real. And if she were struggling, he would have woken up.
Well, the articles don't go into detail, so the picture some people have of a fully completed intercourse don't necessarily need to be what actually happened. There are scenarios which fit the discription without even having to be overly complicated and avoiding all those problems people have pointed out on the last few pages. Also, people manage to do pretty complicated things while sleepwalking.
I think the most probable thing that happened is something along the line of the guy starting to do things, her waking up, shoving him away and running of afterwards. There is really no indication of him holding her down for prolonged amounts of time while completing intercourse, or something like that. That is just the interpretation you have of the story.
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On July 06 2011 09:02 Ancestral wrote:
Inserting a penis into a vagina isn't the same as putting a hot dog in a bun. It takes a little coordination and there is some resistance, even if you are the most beautiful arousing man in the world.
Also I assume the girl was wearing clothing. I don't think it would be easy to stay asleep while someone is removing your clothes and penetrating your vagina. This story just doesn't sound real. And if she were struggling, he would have woken up.
You should read the other comments since other people keep saying the same thing, and it keeps being addressed over and over.
This thread should probably just be closed since the comments are in a repeated cycle, with intermittent derailing arguments.
Case and point the guy below me.
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On July 05 2011 22:34 Fenrax wrote:Stephen Lee Davies, 43, of Pembroke Dock, claimed he was innocent because he suffered from sexsomnia. He was accused of raping a 16-year-old girl staying at his home. The jury took just over an hour to find him not guilty. A sleep consultant gave evidence at the trial confirming that what Mr Davies said was probably true. His wife, and a former partner, also gave evidence on how they became used to being "groped" in the night. They said he would have sex with them in his sleep and remember nothing in the morning The girl had been staying at Mr Davies’s home in Swansea when she became ill and was told to share his bed because his room was cooler. She woke up in the middle of the night because he had sex with her. Mr Davies was already asleep in the bed and told the court he had no idea she was there. Now while the exact circumstances of the night remain a bit unclear the fact of matter is that he had sex with a 16 year old against her will. The rape itself happened and was not denied. He was cleared of the rape charge because he suffers from "sexsomnia". http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-wales-south-west-wales-14018391http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8617115/Man-who-had-sex-in-his-sleep-cleared-of-rape.html
Im confused. Who told her to go sleep in that dudes bed?
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On July 06 2011 09:19 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 22:34 Fenrax wrote:Stephen Lee Davies, 43, of Pembroke Dock, claimed he was innocent because he suffered from sexsomnia. He was accused of raping a 16-year-old girl staying at his home. The jury took just over an hour to find him not guilty. A sleep consultant gave evidence at the trial confirming that what Mr Davies said was probably true. His wife, and a former partner, also gave evidence on how they became used to being "groped" in the night. They said he would have sex with them in his sleep and remember nothing in the morning The girl had been staying at Mr Davies’s home in Swansea when she became ill and was told to share his bed because his room was cooler. She woke up in the middle of the night because he had sex with her. Mr Davies was already asleep in the bed and told the court he had no idea she was there. Now while the exact circumstances of the night remain a bit unclear the fact of matter is that he had sex with a 16 year old against her will. The rape itself happened and was not denied. He was cleared of the rape charge because he suffers from "sexsomnia". http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-wales-south-west-wales-14018391http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8617115/Man-who-had-sex-in-his-sleep-cleared-of-rape.html Im confused. Who told her to go sleep in that dudes bed?
Noone knows. That is a mystery here, because it always says "was told to", and never "xyz told her" It is near along with the mystery of why she agreed to that.
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On July 06 2011 09:02 Ancestral wrote:
Inserting a penis into a vagina isn't the same as putting a hot dog in a bun. It takes a little coordination and there is some resistance, even if you are the most beautiful arousing man in the world.
Also I assume the girl was wearing clothing. I don't think it would be easy to stay asleep while someone is removing your clothes and penetrating your vagina. This story just doesn't sound real. And if she were struggling, he would have woken up.
Think about what a person can do while sleep walking and then think if that same person could have sex while asleep. It is definitely possible, I know this first hand, but it isn't like he couldn't be woken up. I firmly believe that if the girl had tried to stop him that he would have woken up. That being said...
There is clearly not enough information to know what exactly happened. If the man actually did manage to have sex with the girl then it is rape and I don't see how that can be argued.
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On July 06 2011 07:11 Eleaven wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 07:06 Leporello wrote:On July 06 2011 07:02 Eleaven wrote:On July 06 2011 06:57 Leporello wrote:On July 06 2011 06:51 Ghostcom wrote:On July 06 2011 06:48 Leporello wrote:On July 06 2011 06:46 Ghostcom wrote:On July 06 2011 06:41 Leporello wrote:On July 06 2011 06:33 Ghostcom wrote:On July 06 2011 06:03 Leporello wrote:
[quote]
Consent has nothing to do with biological or reproductive maturity. Yes, 16 year-olds are biologically capable of sex. Some might even argue that a girl is fully capable of a sexual relationship by the time she's TWELVE, biologically speaking. Fully.
It's about maturity of the MIND. In the States, we recognize that 16 year-olds, as a general whole, don't have nearly enough life-experience to be making life-changing decisions. And it's true. I was 16 once. And I was just smart and mature enough to think I knew what I was doing, but then you REALLY grow up and realize that you were actually an idiot. Yet in the states you also think 16 year-olds are mature enough to drive a car, which can lead not only to their own death, but also that of other motorists/cyclists/pedestrians. A 16 year old is also in most countries old enough (in a lot of countries 14 years is the limit) to be charged as an adult within the criminal system. So until you've sorted out your own countries morally inconsistent laws, perhaps you would refrain from commenting on other countries laws? Because you really haven't got any sort of moral highground. There is something to be argued about raising the driving limit to age 18. People have brought it up, and I think it deserves an argument. 16 year-olds are more likely to cause an accident than an 18 year-old. Because they're younger, and dumber. Funny, here in DK there is a lot of talk about increasing the amount of trust society has to 16 year-olds - it is being rather seriously discussed wheter or not 16 year-olds shouldn't be allowed to vote. Personally I can't see any reason why they shouldn't. I'm terribly sorry, but you don't get to tell anyone else that their laws needs to be fixed based on your own opinion... Yes, I do. And I did. That's exactly what opinions are for. Only if you actually have a solid argument for your opinion which you've failed to represent. And now you actually sound like a kid in the kindergarden: "I'm right because I said it". Not at all. I've presented an opinion: that 16 year-olds are not responsible enough to be legally held independent and shouldn't be allowed to have sex with middle-aged men, and you're response has been to call me names, call me "kindergarden". If you think 16 year-olds should have all the rights of an adult, try providing a study that PROVES it, and shows that 16 year-olds, on average, possess enough maturity to be called adults. Or else, you're just being an ultimate hypocrite right now. Notice that "hypocrite" is the worse thing I've called you. I'll let you keep the "kindergarden" insults to yourself EDIT: And I'm anything but conservative. Unless it's on the topic of letting 16 year-old girls sleep with 40 year-old men. In that particular case, you can call me a conservative I guess, but I think it's a joke. your a fucking joke. You're either trolling or really really stupid. We're discussing the age of consent relative to maturity, and other more serious acts such as driving and murder. Not the "morality" of age gap sex. You seem to be intent on blending the 2 different idea's into one. Unfortunately (for you) that's not how the legal system, or the world, works. First of all: cool it. Less insults please, just because I have a different opinion than you. Secondly, that is how the world works. The "age of consent" directly ties into the laws of statutory rape. I'm arguing that any sex between a 16 year old and an adult is statutory rape, and you disagree, rather strongly it seems. Confirmed for trolling? In almost every other first world country the age of consent is 16, as low as 14 in a lot of places. having sex with a 16 year old is not statutory rape here (where the incident happened). You should really just leave like you said you would, at every turn your nonsense has been countered by other posters giving you facts, and evidence. whilst you continue to grasp at an illusory moral high ground whilst spouting absolute nonsensical strawman garbage.
I dont care about the discussion you guys are having too much, but I hate it when people just spew out "TROLL?!?" any time someone disagrees with them. Im used to seeing this kind of ad hominem argumentative style go on in 90% of internet forums out there, but Im pretty disappointed to find people jumping to the "UR A TROLL" argument on teamliquid
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On July 06 2011 09:02 Ancestral wrote:
Inserting a penis into a vagina isn't the same as putting a hot dog in a bun. It takes a little coordination and there is some resistance, even if you are the most beautiful arousing man in the world.
Also I assume the girl was wearing clothing. I don't think it would be easy to stay asleep while someone is removing your clothes and penetrating your vagina. This story just doesn't sound real. And if she were struggling, he would have woken up.
bro, there's this condition called sleepwalking too.
Walking requires quite a bit of coordination. Probably more than sex.
Sleep conditions like this are well documented ..some of you are foolish. Sure, any logical person can see there's a possibility he is guilty as fuck. But there's no court that is going to convict him...
Some sleep walkers can perform very complex activities.
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If I may say so I do believe that Leprollo has been the more polite one in this conversation although neither of you could be called "reasonable" as neither of you have been able to be reasoned with.
Leprollo has one opinion, Eleaven has another. Neither of you are going to be able to convince the other to change your opinions.
Also yeah... I think the whole issue is pretty fucked but if the guy has a disease then he has a disease. It's a horrible set of circumstances.
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How convenient.
As a matter of fact, I starting to forget all the time I had sex at night...yep, forgot now. Must have been because I was asleep. Great. Now I'm a sexsomniac, all I need to do is find some attractive woman to stick in my bed, without me knowing of course.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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On July 06 2011 09:42 TheDougler wrote:
If I may say so I do believe that Leprollo has been the more polite one in this conversation although neither of you could be called "reasonable" as neither of you have been able to be reasoned with.
Leprollo has one opinion, Eleaven has another. Neither of you are going to be able to convince the other to change your opinions.
Also yeah... I think the whole issue is pretty fucked but if the guy has a disease then he has a disease. It's a horrible set of circumstances.
His style was admittedly much more subtle and subversive, but don't mistake it for politeness.
anyway, bridge under the water, he apologised over PM, and i graciously accepted 
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On July 06 2011 09:35 applejuice wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 09:02 Ancestral wrote:
Inserting a penis into a vagina isn't the same as putting a hot dog in a bun. It takes a little coordination and there is some resistance, even if you are the most beautiful arousing man in the world.
Also I assume the girl was wearing clothing. I don't think it would be easy to stay asleep while someone is removing your clothes and penetrating your vagina. This story just doesn't sound real. And if she were struggling, he would have woken up. bro, there's this condition called sleepwalking too. Walking requires quite a bit of coordination. Probably more than sex. Sleep conditions like this are well documented ..some of you are foolish. Sure, any logical person can see there's a possibility he is guilty as fuck. But there's no court that is going to convict him... Some sleep walkers can perform very complex activities.
True about the sleep walking. Then, if we are comparing this to a sexsomniac, if you punched a sleep walker in the face and shouted at them to get the fuck off you, would they wake up?
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On July 06 2011 09:26 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 07:11 Eleaven wrote:On July 06 2011 07:06 Leporello wrote:On July 06 2011 07:02 Eleaven wrote:On July 06 2011 06:57 Leporello wrote:On July 06 2011 06:51 Ghostcom wrote:On July 06 2011 06:48 Leporello wrote:On July 06 2011 06:46 Ghostcom wrote:On July 06 2011 06:41 Leporello wrote:On July 06 2011 06:33 Ghostcom wrote:
[quote]
Yet in the states you also think 16 year-olds are mature enough to drive a car, which can lead not only to their own death, but also that of other motorists/cyclists/pedestrians.
A 16 year old is also in most countries old enough (in a lot of countries 14 years is the limit) to be charged as an adult within the criminal system.
So until you've sorted out your own countries morally inconsistent laws, perhaps you would refrain from commenting on other countries laws? Because you really haven't got any sort of moral highground. There is something to be argued about raising the driving limit to age 18. People have brought it up, and I think it deserves an argument. 16 year-olds are more likely to cause an accident than an 18 year-old. Because they're younger, and dumber. Funny, here in DK there is a lot of talk about increasing the amount of trust society has to 16 year-olds - it is being rather seriously discussed wheter or not 16 year-olds shouldn't be allowed to vote. Personally I can't see any reason why they shouldn't. I'm terribly sorry, but you don't get to tell anyone else that their laws needs to be fixed based on your own opinion... Yes, I do. And I did. That's exactly what opinions are for. Only if you actually have a solid argument for your opinion which you've failed to represent. And now you actually sound like a kid in the kindergarden: "I'm right because I said it". Not at all. I've presented an opinion: that 16 year-olds are not responsible enough to be legally held independent and shouldn't be allowed to have sex with middle-aged men, and you're response has been to call me names, call me "kindergarden". If you think 16 year-olds should have all the rights of an adult, try providing a study that PROVES it, and shows that 16 year-olds, on average, possess enough maturity to be called adults. Or else, you're just being an ultimate hypocrite right now. Notice that "hypocrite" is the worse thing I've called you. I'll let you keep the "kindergarden" insults to yourself EDIT: And I'm anything but conservative. Unless it's on the topic of letting 16 year-old girls sleep with 40 year-old men. In that particular case, you can call me a conservative I guess, but I think it's a joke. your a fucking joke. You're either trolling or really really stupid. We're discussing the age of consent relative to maturity, and other more serious acts such as driving and murder. Not the "morality" of age gap sex. You seem to be intent on blending the 2 different idea's into one. Unfortunately (for you) that's not how the legal system, or the world, works. First of all: cool it. Less insults please, just because I have a different opinion than you. Secondly, that is how the world works. The "age of consent" directly ties into the laws of statutory rape. I'm arguing that any sex between a 16 year old and an adult is statutory rape, and you disagree, rather strongly it seems. Confirmed for trolling? In almost every other first world country the age of consent is 16, as low as 14 in a lot of places. having sex with a 16 year old is not statutory rape here (where the incident happened). You should really just leave like you said you would, at every turn your nonsense has been countered by other posters giving you facts, and evidence. whilst you continue to grasp at an illusory moral high ground whilst spouting absolute nonsensical strawman garbage. I dont care about the discussion you guys are having too much, but I hate it when people just spew out "TROLL?!?" any time someone disagrees with them. Im used to seeing this kind of ad hominem argumentative style go on in 90% of internet forums out there, but Im pretty disappointed to find people jumping to the "UR A TROLL" argument on teamliquid
I'll have to agree with this. Trolling=/=disagreeing
One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is why the 16 year old didn't know about the man's condition. If I had that condition and had a young girl staying in my house I would make sure she knew to not come into my room while I'm sleeping. He wouldn't have to tell her what his condition is just make sure she knew not to come into his room while he's sleeping. Whoever it was that told the girl to go get into the guy's bed should've know something about it too.
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On July 06 2011 00:41 vVvTime wrote:
The only reason you'd think this is a made up condition is because you've never shared a bed with someone for an extended period of time. It's pretty easy to wake up in the middle of having sex, or, more often, to be awake but in a completely unaware mental state. It's not hard to imagine someone who is completely unaware through the whole thing.
This echoes my thoughts exactly. This is not uncommon in the least. It's happened to me quite a few times.
I think most would find it way easier to believe if you've ever spent a long time sharing a bed with a partner.
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what soooooo many of you are missing, is to be labeled a sexsomniac you need to go through mental testing, no one can just claim they have this condition and get off, he was clinically diagnosed with the disorder, he didn't just say he was a sexsomniac and got off, he has a condition and the girl wasn't aware of it, he wasn't aware she was there, end of story.
also alot of you are saying no way could you have sex asleep, just look at carl sagan's explaination of the 4th dimension, you can't percieve something you have no knowledge of, you have no idea what is capable in your unconscious sleeping state, and neither do I, as I don't suffer from such a horrible disorder
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We had a case around here a few years back a "sleep walker" got into a car crash without ever knowing she got into a car(the other driver was at fault in the causing of the crash), and a local clerk was telling the news that she would come into the store every night around the same time and do/buy the same stuff every time then leave and had no idea that she was sleeping.
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EPT
