EPT"Sexsomniac" cleared of rape charge - Page 21
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Please stop posting that he shouldn't have invited her into his bed since that's apparently not what happened... read the OP and links BEFORE commenting. | ||
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ShAsTa
Belgium2841 Posts
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Shamrock_
South Africa276 Posts
On July 06 2011 23:34 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Your clarification makes you look even worse. Being aware of what you are doing completely matters in a criminal case. Furthermore, blacking out and sleeping are not the same. If you use drugs/alcohol and those cause you to black out and do something stupid, you are responsible unless you can prove you didn't willingly drink/use drugs that caused you to do it. The guy suffers from a disorder, one that is not generally dangerous barring certain scenarios that can be avoided. It wasn't his fault the girl came into his bed, and its not like putting him in some sort of clinic would make a difference, he doesn't have a mind that makes him dangerous so there is nothing to treat. Not much more can be said except your opinion is completely wrong and to treat this guy like hes a murder or a serial rapist is completely unfair. Ugh, he suffers from a disorder? Please. People have to be responsible for their own actions. The girl can be responsible for the fact that, maybe, she shouldn't have gotten into his bed. But for god's sake, the dude HAS to be responsible for having sex with her, none of this "Oh. Well it's a disorder. Case closed." | ||
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On July 07 2011 04:22 ShAsTa wrote: Shouldn't he have been found guilty and the punishment reduced? Saying not guilty is almost like saying it didn't happen. It didn't. He was charged of rape, and he did not commit a rape. He did commit an involuntary sexual assault, but that's neither a crime nor what he was on trial for. On July 07 2011 04:28 Shamrock_ wrote:Ugh, he suffers from a disorder? Please. People have to be responsible for their own actions. The girl can be responsible for the fact that, maybe, she shouldn't have gotten into his bed. But for god's sake, the dude HAS to be responsible for having sex with her, none of this "Oh. Well it's a disorder. Case closed." You can't be responsible for an involuntary act. If you had a flu and were passed out, and someone decides to climb into your bed with neither your knoweldge nor permission (duh, since you're unconscious), and gets sick, are you responsible? Because that's the equivalent of what happened here. He had a condition that he knew about, but would not reasonably harm anyone who did not share a bed with him. The sexual assault only happened because a teenage girl decided to climb in bed with a naked 43-year-old without his knowledge. | ||
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Jormundr
United States1678 Posts
The most specific article that I have found: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2011145/Stephen-Lee-Davies-accused-rape-walks-free-jury-accepted-suffering-sexomnia.html Which states several things that really haven't been addressed yet in this thread. "Davies, who said he always slept naked..." Another former partner said she could have entire conversations with him, as well as full sexual intercourse, without him waking up. I would also like to challenge the statement that someone told her to sleep there, because I have only seen that written once in ten articles from 'semi' reliable sources. I say semi because I have no personal knowledge of the bias in British publications, but the publishers were all respectable enough to use in a collegiate essay. | ||
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On July 07 2011 04:33 Jormundr wrote:I would also like to challenge the statement that someone told her to sleep there, because I have only seen that written once in ten articles from 'semi' reliable sources. I say semi because I have no personal knowledge of the bias in British publications, but the publishers were all respectable enough to use in a collegiate essay. It's not even all that relevant to this particular case, as she shouldn't be getting in bed with a naked man almost three times her age anyway, let alone without informing him, regardless of who told her to. If someone told her to sleep outside during a snowstorm and she loses some toes to frostbite, does that mean the person who told her is responsible? Teenage girls don't obey commands like zombies, they're moral agents capable of making decisions (albeit with slightly less knowledge/judgment). Again, I'm going to put it out there that if a 16-year-old boy climbed into bed with a 43-year-old woman and they ended up having sex, this would never go to trial (and the boy might even be on trial for raping a sleeping woman). | ||
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Jormundr
United States1678 Posts
On July 07 2011 04:40 sunprince wrote: It's not even all that relevant to this particular case (though it might be relevant to another case if they were to prosecute someone else for criminal negligence), as she shouldn't be getting in bed with a naked man almost three times her age anyway, let alone without informing him. Again, I'm going to put it out there that if a 16-year-old boy climbed into bed with a 43-year-old woman and they ended up having sex, this would never go to trial (and the boy might even be on trial for raping a sleeping woman). Completely agree, however it could be nice because it might cut down on the number of people who are arguing that the person who told her to sleep with him is at fault. | ||
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Sableyeah
Netherlands2119 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On July 07 2011 04:28 Shamrock_ wrote: Ugh, he suffers from a disorder? Please. People have to be responsible for their own actions. The girl can be responsible for the fact that, maybe, she shouldn't have gotten into his bed. But for god's sake, the dude HAS to be responsible for having sex with her, none of this "Oh. Well it's a disorder. Case closed." You have to be kidding me. Have you ever heard of an insanity plea? The whole idea behind it is that there is no mens rea. Please look up the fucking term. MENS REA. Without willing and purposely doing it, he can't be held responsible. People should be responsible for their own actions, but only if they are in full control and knowingly do something harmful or negative. From the way you are approaching this, if I kill someone in self defense then I should be convicted of murder because the act was committed by me. You are completely ignoring mitigating and extraneous factors and focusing on whether or not the ACT itself occurred. Just because an ACT occurred, doesn't mean the perpetrator committed a crime. A crime requires both an act and the willful thought behind it. While in his case the ACT occurred, he did not willingly do it so he can not be held responsible. Do you get why your logic is retarded now? | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On July 07 2011 04:22 ShAsTa wrote: Shouldn't he have been found guilty and the punishment reduced? Saying not guilty is almost like saying it didn't happen. no. | ||
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Gnial
Canada907 Posts
On July 07 2011 04:45 Jormundr wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 07 2011 04:40 sunprince wrote: It's not even all that relevant to this particular case (though it might be relevant to another case if they were to prosecute someone else for criminal negligence), as she shouldn't be getting in bed with a naked man almost three times her age anyway, let alone without informing him. Again, I'm going to put it out there that if a 16-year-old boy climbed into bed with a 43-year-old woman and they ended up having sex, this would never go to trial (and the boy might even be on trial for raping a sleeping woman). Completely agree, however it could be nice because it might cut down on the number of people who are arguing that the person who told her to sleep with him is at fault. I've already tried about 10 times to correct people, but as evidenced by the person just posted directly below you, the idiots on TL tend to gravitate towards topics with the word "sex" in it. | ||
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Slaynte
United States155 Posts
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On July 07 2011 04:33 Jormundr wrote: Could someone please update the OP with articles that provide more information? The most specific article that I have found: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2011145/Stephen-Lee-Davies-accused-rape-walks-free-jury-accepted-suffering-sexomnia.html Which states several things that really haven't been addressed yet in this thread. I would also like to challenge the statement that someone told her to sleep there, because I have only seen that written once in ten articles from 'semi' reliable sources. I say semi because I have no personal knowledge of the bias in British publications, but the publishers were all respectable enough to use in a collegiate essay. Atm I have the BBC and Guardian articles linked because those newspapers are afaik quite reliable. I can only repeat my request for more detailed information for the fourth time. There is no use in "updating" the OP from one unreliable information (she was told to sleep there) that is only in one article to another unreliable information that is in some other article (sleeps naked). On July 06 2011 22:29 Fenrax wrote: I would still love if someone who has better information (maybe from the UK) could clear up some things: - did anyone tell her to go into his bed (like Guardian says) - who invited her into his home? why did a teenage girl stay in an adults man's house? - who else was in the house that night? | ||
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TranceKuja
United States154 Posts
On July 07 2011 04:28 Shamrock_ wrote: Ugh, he suffers from a disorder? Please. People have to be responsible for their own actions. The girl can be responsible for the fact that, maybe, she shouldn't have gotten into his bed. But for god's sake, the dude HAS to be responsible for having sex with her, none of this "Oh. Well it's a disorder. Case closed." You're either not reading the facts, are really dense, or just trolling. He has a medical condition which was already documented and has been PROVEN. He was not awake at the time when the girl climbed into bed with him. Common sense isn't common I guess. | ||
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On July 07 2011 05:04 Slaynte wrote: Are you blaming the victim for getting raped then? I'm blaming the victim for taking actions that led to her being involuntarily sexually assaulted, in contravention of common sense. This doesn't in any way mean that she deserved what happened, but it certainly doesn't implicate the man either. Blaming the victim is not necessarily fallacious (as long as it is within the proper scope of their actions), and I say this as someone familiar with victimology. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On July 07 2011 05:17 sunprince wrote: I'm blaming the victim for taking actions that led to her being involuntarily sexually assaulted, in contravention of common sense. This doesn't in any way mean that she deserved what happened, but it certainly doesn't implicate the man either. Blaming the victim is not necessarily fallacious (as long as it is within the proper scope of their actions), and I say this as someone familiar with victimology. If she knew he suffered from it, then yes, she should blame herself for being stupid. On a somewhat related note, why would she get into a bed with a 43 year old anyway? That's kind of weird. Sucks to be her, but I wouldn't blame her unless she knew the guy suffered from it. Then that's just Darwinism. | ||
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On July 07 2011 06:01 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: If she knew he suffered from it, then yes, she should blame herself for being stupid. On a somewhat related note, why would she get into a bed with a 43 year old anyway? That's kind of weird. Sucks to be her, but I wouldn't blame her unless she knew the guy suffered from it. Then that's just Darwinism. She got into bed with a naked 43-year-old man, without informing him, or obtaining prior consent. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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sorrowptoss
Canada1431 Posts
"Now while the exact circumstances of the night remain a bit unclear the fact of matter is that he had sex with a 16 year old against her will." That's the problem. | ||
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dybydx
Canada1764 Posts
its like having sex and claim that you don't want to get pregnant. surely you may not be in your clear intentions but if you do end up pregnant, don't blame anyone. | ||
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djbhINDI
United States372 Posts
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