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On June 22 2011 15:40 Game wrote:
iCanada, you guys are also not spread nearly as thin. Your cities are CITIES. We have like 3 cities in the entire US - NY, LA, Miami. Other than that, we actually cover our entire landmass, whereas it is way too cold for you to do so. That's really a horrible comparison considering that Canada doesn't use more than half of its land.
However, I don't dispute the "you can do it" part.
chicago's not a city? (miami is actually pretty small, comparatively)
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You guys fight over these things okay? I'm just gonna enjoy my "free" healthcare in Finland, okay?
Oh and by the way, I think there are numerous researches about the current U.S. healthcare system and most of those researches have come into a conclusion that the current system is over 10 times more expensive for the states and the nation than what a nationwide tax money ran public healthcare would cost for the country, yet for some reason you Americans still hold on to that broken system of yours, maybe you should start voting for the right people in your elections, it would seem that the current ones are too greedy and can't think of the good of the nation, only the good of their pockets and wallets.
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On June 22 2011 16:08 Geolich wrote:
what a joke of a country america is
i cannot fathom how people can be so heartless to say 'well its his problem, why should i pay for it'
what sort of attitude is this? i mean some idiot earlier compared this to paying for his neighbours tire when it goes flat after driving over glass. are you fucking serious?
give me my tax bracket system up to 49% or 50% such as we have in australia so that citizens do not have to be without necessities such as healthcare.
Seriously, this thread makes me so thankful to be an Australian citizen. I just don't understand why America's system is the way it is. They've bought into the ideology of capitalism so much that it's now overruling basic neighbourly love and compassion. So sad that things are the way they are.
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On June 22 2011 17:34 Mootland wrote:
You guys fight over these things okay? I'm just gonna enjoy my "free" healthcare in Finland, okay?
Oh and by the way, I think there are numerous researches about the current U.S. healthcare system and most of those researches have come into a conclusion that the current system is over 10 times more expensive for the states and the nation than what a nationwide tax money ran public healthcare would cost for the country, yet for some reason you Americans still hold on to that broken system of yours, maybe you should start voting for the right people in your elections, it would seem that the current ones are too greedy and can't think of the good of the nation, only the good of their pockets and wallets.
you seem to have something out for americans, tell us how you really feel? 
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On June 22 2011 17:36 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 17:34 Mootland wrote:
You guys fight over these things okay? I'm just gonna enjoy my "free" healthcare in Finland, okay?
Oh and by the way, I think there are numerous researches about the current U.S. healthcare system and most of those researches have come into a conclusion that the current system is over 10 times more expensive for the states and the nation than what a nationwide tax money ran public healthcare would cost for the country, yet for some reason you Americans still hold on to that broken system of yours, maybe you should start voting for the right people in your elections, it would seem that the current ones are too greedy and can't think of the good of the nation, only the good of their pockets and wallets. you seem to have something out for americans, tell us how you really feel?
Nothing against you really, it just amazes and somewhat amuses me that nothing is done about the situation while the general opinion seems to be that it must be changed, and my comment on the politics is correct in my opinion, Obama had huge troubles getting the recent changes through the senate did he not?
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On June 22 2011 17:36 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 17:34 Mootland wrote:
You guys fight over these things okay? I'm just gonna enjoy my "free" healthcare in Finland, okay?
Oh and by the way, I think there are numerous researches about the current U.S. healthcare system and most of those researches have come into a conclusion that the current system is over 10 times more expensive for the states and the nation than what a nationwide tax money ran public healthcare would cost for the country, yet for some reason you Americans still hold on to that broken system of yours, maybe you should start voting for the right people in your elections, it would seem that the current ones are too greedy and can't think of the good of the nation, only the good of their pockets and wallets. you seem to have something out for americans, tell us how you really feel?
Socialism is a great feeling. 
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On June 22 2011 17:42 Mootland wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 17:36 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 22 2011 17:34 Mootland wrote:
You guys fight over these things okay? I'm just gonna enjoy my "free" healthcare in Finland, okay?
Oh and by the way, I think there are numerous researches about the current U.S. healthcare system and most of those researches have come into a conclusion that the current system is over 10 times more expensive for the states and the nation than what a nationwide tax money ran public healthcare would cost for the country, yet for some reason you Americans still hold on to that broken system of yours, maybe you should start voting for the right people in your elections, it would seem that the current ones are too greedy and can't think of the good of the nation, only the good of their pockets and wallets. you seem to have something out for americans, tell us how you really feel? Nothing against you really, it just amazes and somewhat amuses me that nothing is done about the situation while the general opinion seems to be that it must be changed, and my comment on the politics is correct in my opinion, Obama had huge troubles getting the recent changes through the senate did he not?
i have no idea.. i don't really know much about politics unless it involves me... i pay $48/month for 100% coverage with a $10 copay for anything (dental, medical, vision) and i am happy with that...
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There are plenty people in America who understand the shortcomings in the system, that's not the problem. Our citizens are divided by the insidious alliance of social conservatism and fiscal conservatism, and it has turned us against each other. But that's another story...
I think things like this need to happen here in order for the working class to wake up and understand that this man could be anybody's grandpa. People are still laboring under the delusion that this country's social fabric is still strong and vibrant, but the truth is that it is tearing apart household by household, and it is due to the depression combined with the inability to access basic health care. I see it happening to people I love who have worked all their lives and cannot afford to even purchase health care. Whether it's because they are unlucky or stupid I hardly believe that they deserve to suffer like they do. It's all the more sickening because I am lucky enough to be provided for.
I do think things will change, I haven't lost that much faith in the system, nor in my countrymen. We just need to collectively understand that we have all been played for fools. I have no idea how we're going to get there, but if anything is going to catalyze this paradigm it will be dramatic and bold political statements such as the one written about here.
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On June 22 2011 15:15 Ryuu314 wrote:
Health insurance was originally a bunch of people, pooling together their money into a common account in which every member that contributes to the pool of money is entitled to withdraw money from that pool to pay for their health costs as long as they continue to contribute a small amount every so often. The idea was that since health costs are extremely high, by pooling money, people can help one another since you're not always going to be ill. At the same time, this also meant that when you needed the money, you would be assured to have it. Everybody wins.
Then companies came along and realized that they could make money out of this. They did. They make a ridiculous amount of money by bastardizing the original system to get as much money out of people as they can.
Except health insurance companies are not making much money at all. According to The New York Times (http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/25/how-much-money-do-insurance-companies-make-a-primer/) one of the largest health care company in America has been making about 5.5%profit, a very minute sum compared to most industries. (yeah the article is a few years old, they have reported losses several times since then, thanks to the recession) Many of the smaller companies are reporting even smaller net gains or are outright losing money.
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While the American hate is pretty hilarious, let me just point out the following: our system allows for more medical innovation than any other country. The best metric I could find for this was the number of nobel laureates in medicine per country: 85 for the US, second best being Britain at 24. So we're basically screwing over the people who can't afford health insurance in favor of advancing medicine. Is that good? Depends on your perspective.
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I'm going to post what i have posted on another website,
The solution is so obvious to your healthcare problems that its laughable. Implement a mixed system (see australia for an approximate idea) where after earning a particular amount and not having private health insurance you hit the next progressive tax pracket. if you do have the private health insurance then you get a tax rebate at the end of the financial year.
Yes taxes will need to rise and it would be suicide by the governmnet that implements it which is why career politicans will NEVER EVER DO IT (as well as the loss of kickbacks from insurance companies). whilst im on a role, i also think that the power of lobbies is deterimental to your country. In most other countries what these lobbies do would be considered corruption but in the US its a way of life. Bascially what i am trying to say is that you need to look at your entire political system and reform it before healthcare reform, but it will never be done becuase career politicians will only lose in the optimum outcome.
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On June 22 2011 18:01 seiferoth10 wrote:
While the American hate is pretty hilarious, let me just point out the following: our system allows for more medical innovation than any other country. The best metric I could find for this was the number of nobel laureates in medicine per country: 85 for the US, second best being Britain at 24. So we're basically screwing over the people who can't afford health insurance in favor of advancing medicine. Is that good? Depends on your perspective.
Hrm, well pretty interesting since I believe the majority of our "medical innovation" is funded by U.S. taxpayers through NIH grants. The dividends of which are showered upon private corporations who then charge those same taxpayers to use the fruits of their (the taxpayers') investment. While I agree that the U.S. can produce some great technology, I disagree that we are distributing it properly. Not only that, but I would be interested in seeing the percentage of Americans who actually have access to this wonderful technology.
Edit: This perspective is that poor people (the majority) suffer and die so that rich people can have better and better things. Is that seriously a political proposition that's supposed to appeal to the majority of Americans?
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On June 22 2011 18:07 SolidusR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 18:01 seiferoth10 wrote:
While the American hate is pretty hilarious, let me just point out the following: our system allows for more medical innovation than any other country. The best metric I could find for this was the number of nobel laureates in medicine per country: 85 for the US, second best being Britain at 24. So we're basically screwing over the people who can't afford health insurance in favor of advancing medicine. Is that good? Depends on your perspective. Hrm, well pretty interesting since I believe the majority of our "medical innovation" is funded by U.S. taxpayers through NIH grants. The dividends of which are showered upon private corporations who then charge those same taxpayers to use the fruits of their (the taxpayers') investment. While I agree that the U.S. can produce some great technology, I disagree that we are distributing it properly. Not only that, but I would be interested in seeing the percentage of Americans who actually have access to this wonderful technology.
Also per capita the US trails a lot of other countries in this regard
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On June 22 2011 06:02 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +Who would want the slightest chance for socialism to happen when you have something as beautiful as the American dream right? i try not to be as mean towards other countries as some of their people are to america, but croatia is just a field of roses and puppydogs, right? people are just dying to immigrate there. walking across the desert even. Show nested quote +You showed him. You are clearly the more eloquent debater. Let me know when you get into the Priesthood and we can celebrate over lemonade and Fox News. well instead of snarking you could read my posts but they would probably make you angrier honestly you might not want to
Croatia is one of the most beautiful countries I've been recommended for a vacation. The seafood is apparently to die for and after hearing so many good things about it it's on top of my to go places the next time I am not busy during the warm season (that would be when hell freezes over by the looks of things).
I may not queue up for going to live in Croatia but it's sure as hell higher on my list that the US which is around the same spot as Iraq, not a good place to make a life. Your country is one of the few countries on this planet I avoided getting a job in just due to how stupidly organized it looks. I'd rather learn German, or worse, Chinese, as my 5th language and go live there. Tourism would be nice though, looks beautiful and the people quite nice.
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On June 22 2011 17:35 snotboogie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 16:08 Geolich wrote:
what a joke of a country america is
i cannot fathom how people can be so heartless to say 'well its his problem, why should i pay for it'
what sort of attitude is this? i mean some idiot earlier compared this to paying for his neighbours tire when it goes flat after driving over glass. are you fucking serious?
give me my tax bracket system up to 49% or 50% such as we have in australia so that citizens do not have to be without necessities such as healthcare. Seriously, this thread makes me so thankful to be an Australian citizen. I just don't understand why America's system is the way it is. They've bought into the ideology of capitalism so much that it's now overruling basic neighbourly love and compassion. So sad that things are the way they are.
So, why doesn't every citizen in your country get free food? What if people starve? What about housing? Do you provide free housing?
I'm not claiming America is the greatest country in the world, but your logic astounds me. So where exactly is the line you draw between how much 'we should pay for those less fortunate?' Because no matter what you think it is, it's rather arbitrary and definitely subjective.
So how about you save your judgmental attitude? What if someone said you were a selfish, self-centered person because you don't volunteer 20 hours a week at the homeless shelter, or donate all of your savings to charity?
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I would not be alive if it wasn't for "socialist healthcare". I would never have been able to afford a health insurance given the number of problems I have had.
Just one of my treatments costed about 3k dollars every month (out of which I had to pay about 300 dollars a year).
Today I am a healthy and contributing member of society, I hope my tax money can help to pay for someone else's health care. I would like to think that society as a whole has profited off of the investment they did in supplying health care to me.
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On June 22 2011 05:26 ThePhan2m wrote:
It's quite normal! In Norway the prisons are quite luxurious, so its not really a punishment to go to prison if you don't mind to not travel around. You get everything you need and more so. Actually, the prisons are quite full, and people do crimes just to get to prison. And some actual criminals get let go because the prisons are full. So you basically end up with prisons full with former criminals, they wont have a chance to get a job outside after they've been to prison, so they do crimes only to get back in and live quite comfortably. Quite sad...
And why is Norway paying for that? That sounds funny....
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On June 22 2011 18:12 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 17:35 snotboogie wrote:On June 22 2011 16:08 Geolich wrote:
what a joke of a country america is
i cannot fathom how people can be so heartless to say 'well its his problem, why should i pay for it'
what sort of attitude is this? i mean some idiot earlier compared this to paying for his neighbours tire when it goes flat after driving over glass. are you fucking serious?
give me my tax bracket system up to 49% or 50% such as we have in australia so that citizens do not have to be without necessities such as healthcare. Seriously, this thread makes me so thankful to be an Australian citizen. I just don't understand why America's system is the way it is. They've bought into the ideology of capitalism so much that it's now overruling basic neighbourly love and compassion. So sad that things are the way they are. So, why doesn't every citizen in your country get free food? What if people starve? What about housing? Do you provide free housing? I'm not claiming America is the greatest country in the world, but your logic astounds me. So where exactly is the line you draw between how much 'we should pay for those less fortunate?' Because no matter what you think it is, it's rather arbitrary and definitely subjective. So how about you save your judgmental attitude? What if someone said you were a selfish, self-centered person because you don't volunteer 20 hours a week at the homeless shelter, or donate all of your savings to charity?
We have solutions (and problems) for things like this but its a mute point in the scheme of things as we don't suffer the unemploymnet that plagues the US, the extra stuff you added is also off topic. A lack of food leads to health problems,cause and effect, here we are talking about the effect not the cause.
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On June 22 2011 18:07 SolidusR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 18:01 seiferoth10 wrote:
While the American hate is pretty hilarious, let me just point out the following: our system allows for more medical innovation than any other country. The best metric I could find for this was the number of nobel laureates in medicine per country: 85 for the US, second best being Britain at 24. So we're basically screwing over the people who can't afford health insurance in favor of advancing medicine. Is that good? Depends on your perspective. Hrm, well pretty interesting since I believe the majority of our "medical innovation" is funded by U.S. taxpayers through NIH grants. The dividends of which are showered upon private corporations who then charge those same taxpayers to use the fruits of their (the taxpayers') investment. While I agree that the U.S. can produce some great technology, I disagree that we are distributing it properly. Not only that, but I would be interested in seeing the percentage of Americans who actually have access to this wonderful technology. Edit: This perspective is that poor people (the majority) suffer and die so that rich people can have better and better things. Is that seriously a political proposition that's supposed to appeal to the majority of Americans?
Well we have to pay the innovators right? And while I will agree that most of the innovations are priced on the higher sides, two examples of innovation from the US that are available to most people are non-drowsy antihistamines and a bunch of different depression medication.
Here's a WAY better source to substantiate my claims:
http://www.scribd.com/Bending-the-Productivity-Curve-Why-America-Leads-the-World-in-Medical-Innovation-Cato-Policy-Analysis-No-654/d/22674807
On June 22 2011 18:06 BordZ wrote:
I'm going to post what i have posted on another website,
The solution is so obvious to your healthcare problems that its laughable. Implement a mixed system (see australia for an approximate idea) where after earning a particular amount and not having private health insurance you hit the next progressive tax pracket. if you do have the private health insurance then you get a tax rebate at the end of the financial year.
Yes taxes will need to rise and it would be suicide by the governmnet that implements it which is why career politicans will NEVER EVER DO IT (as well as the loss of kickbacks from insurance companies). whilst im on a role, i also think that the power of lobbies is deterimental to your country. In most other countries what these lobbies do would be considered corruption but in the US its a way of life. Bascially what i am trying to say is that you need to look at your entire political system and reform it before healthcare reform, but it will never be done becuase career politicians will only lose in the optimum outcome.
I do agree with all this, and it's quite accurate.
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EPT
