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In Germany we enjoy universal healthcare since 1880... works.
the only reason i can explain why the USA hasnt achieved this yet is because it is a country of selfish people (a good part of it at least).
Many comments of americans that go like "everyone cares for himself" in this thread also lead me to that conclusion..
i guess thats a result of 40 years of anti-kommunism and anti-socialism propagande in the cold war.
there is a middle ground between capitalism and socialism ... black and white thinking never lead anywhere.
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On June 22 2011 08:09 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 07:37 pirates wrote:On June 22 2011 07:31 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: maybe instead of robbing a bank he might get a job maybe instead of robbing a bank he should actually read the OP. i understand where this guy is coming from. i have never been to a doctor/dentist or any physician. it is outrageously expensive. a trip to the dentist can run you 2-6k EASILY, how do they expect you to be able to pay for this up front with no assistance? point out the part of the OP you think i missed, please also, you should get a job that provides insurance - that's what i did to remedy that situation Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 07:38 OFCORPSE wrote:On June 22 2011 07:31 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: maybe instead of robbing a bank he might get a job Would you hire a 59 years old man with two ruptured discs, some type of "growth" on his chest and problems with his left foot? I think he need medical help before he can find a job, and how can he get medical help without insurance, which he would get if he had money? Did you just read the title or what? i legally would not be able to turn him down for employment due to those issues unless they would literally prevent him from doing the work he applied for - plenty of handicapped old men work at wal-mart what's with people not understanding that you need to do work to get anywhere in life?
The amusing thing is that he'd have to work at walmart for a minimum of one year to get healthcare to remedy his situation. And who's to say his condition won't drastically worsen or become fatal after one year of no treatment?
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On June 22 2011 08:17 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 07:58 StrangrDangr wrote:1) Limit the amount of money that the Pharmaceutical companies can charge for a pill. I don't care if it took your 50 million dollars to design the pill, you don't have to make 50 million of those LIFESAVING PILLS and charge 100 bucks each. What about the other 100 pills they spent $50 million on that turned out to be useless, should medical research be a pursuit that loses money? Maybe the cost is exorbitant, but how else will we puruade the best and the brightest to work for such an important goal. 4) Make accepting Medicare and Medicaid easier. There was a report by the AP that talked about a study done in Illinois. Children who were on state insurance were forced to wait for life saving specialists up to a month or two months longer than those children with private insurance. When your child has a "Holy shit, heart tumor" problem and the cardiologist says "Sorry, I have to make you wait a month and a half" while he squeezes in the private insurance baby two weeks from when they called there's something wrong.
Many doctors would not accept Medicare at all if they were allowed. They get paid much less than they would through other means. Of course when Doctors are working 110+ hour work weeks and get over $100,000 in debt from medical school I find it hard to blame them for wanting acceptable compensation. just wondering, what doctors work 22 hours a day?
Residents. Surgical residents have frequently worked 120 hours in a week. They passed a law that you can't be scheduled for that now, but most still work upwards of 100 because they aren't paid worth shit and have a ton of debt to pay off so they moonlight to pay bills.
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On June 22 2011 08:17 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 07:58 StrangrDangr wrote:1) Limit the amount of money that the Pharmaceutical companies can charge for a pill. I don't care if it took your 50 million dollars to design the pill, you don't have to make 50 million of those LIFESAVING PILLS and charge 100 bucks each. What about the other 100 pills they spent $50 million on that turned out to be useless, should medical research be a pursuit that loses money? Maybe the cost is exorbitant, but how else will we puruade the best and the brightest to work for such an important goal. 4) Make accepting Medicare and Medicaid easier. There was a report by the AP that talked about a study done in Illinois. Children who were on state insurance were forced to wait for life saving specialists up to a month or two months longer than those children with private insurance. When your child has a "Holy shit, heart tumor" problem and the cardiologist says "Sorry, I have to make you wait a month and a half" while he squeezes in the private insurance baby two weeks from when they called there's something wrong.
Many doctors would not accept Medicare at all if they were allowed. They get paid much less than they would through other means. Of course when Doctors are working 110+ hour work weeks and get over $100,000 in debt from medical school I find it hard to blame them for wanting acceptable compensation. just wondering, what doctors work 22 hours a day?
They don't work the standard 5 days a week. As far as the laws meant to limit the amount of hours they can put in, they are often disregarded entirely.
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On June 22 2011 08:20 Grackodile wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 08:17 FFGenerations wrote:On June 22 2011 07:58 StrangrDangr wrote:1) Limit the amount of money that the Pharmaceutical companies can charge for a pill. I don't care if it took your 50 million dollars to design the pill, you don't have to make 50 million of those LIFESAVING PILLS and charge 100 bucks each. What about the other 100 pills they spent $50 million on that turned out to be useless, should medical research be a pursuit that loses money? Maybe the cost is exorbitant, but how else will we puruade the best and the brightest to work for such an important goal. 4) Make accepting Medicare and Medicaid easier. There was a report by the AP that talked about a study done in Illinois. Children who were on state insurance were forced to wait for life saving specialists up to a month or two months longer than those children with private insurance. When your child has a "Holy shit, heart tumor" problem and the cardiologist says "Sorry, I have to make you wait a month and a half" while he squeezes in the private insurance baby two weeks from when they called there's something wrong.
Many doctors would not accept Medicare at all if they were allowed. They get paid much less than they would through other means. Of course when Doctors are working 110+ hour work weeks and get over $100,000 in debt from medical school I find it hard to blame them for wanting acceptable compensation. just wondering, what doctors work 22 hours a day? Residents. Surgical residents have frequently worked 120 hours in a week. They passed a law that you can't be scheduled for that now, but most still work upwards of 100 because they aren't paid worth shit and have a ton of debt to pay off so they moonlight to pay bills.
weird job. they are surgical assistants reporting to the head doctor right? median salary is 94k in florida according to http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Physician-Assistant-Surgical-Salary-Details-Florida-NY.aspx
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On June 22 2011 04:39 Carras wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 04:37 Skilledblob wrote:On June 22 2011 04:35 Pawsom wrote:On June 22 2011 04:34 Carras wrote: Only in America. Well yeah, everywhere else provides proper health care  at least every other first world country many "third" world countries do too.. if he had enough money to travel , he should just gone to cuba and got great health care.. also here in Argentina
People with onlya U.S Citzenship cannot go to cuba.
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On June 22 2011 05:47 Treemonkeys wrote: Why does everyone ignore that the US pays half the entire worlds military budget COMBINED? China, Russia, and the rest of the entire fucking world - combined - is still less than what the US spends on military! You cannot pay for this shit and expect to be able to afford everything that other countries with literally a single digit percentage of what US spends on military. You gotta cut corners to pay for that shit and healthcare is one of those corners.
AKA Lets kill more people at home so we can afford to kill more people abroad.
You make me fucking sick.
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i know someone who chooses to work 84 hours a week (12 hours a day for 7) but then takes 7 days off at home. bit crazy but it suits her. salary is about 7.60/hour or 1270/month (before tax)
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just a short question for those who think capitalistic way of dealing with health care is good; does a non-profitable person deserves to live? like a disabled person, or maybe a old person which doesn't have any money left, or maybe someone really stupid, or someone who is chronicly ill? ... in the end all those persons are not making money and just bad for the state, because it has to somehow pay for them. so why don't you kill them? in a capitalistic way this is perfectly logic.
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On June 22 2011 08:29 Finrod1 wrote: just a short question for those who think capitalistic way of dealing with health care is good; does a non-profitable person deserves to live? like a disabled person, or maybe a old person which doesn't have any money left, or maybe someone really stupid, or someone who is chronicly ill? ... in the end all those persons are not making money and just bad for the state, because it has to somehow pay for them. so why don't you kill them? in a capitalistic way this is perfectly logic.
This is the kind of thinking that lead to a few wars in the past.
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On June 22 2011 08:29 Finrod1 wrote: just a short question for those who think capitalistic way of dealing with health care is good; does a non-profitable person deserves to live? like a disabled person, or maybe a old person which doesn't have any money left, or maybe someone really stupid, or someone who is chronicly ill? ... in the end all those persons are not making money and just bad for the state, because it has to somehow pay for them. so why don't you kill them? in a capitalistic way this is perfectly logic. Pretty sure you don't know what the definition of "capitalist" is. Because Germany has a pretty capitalist healthcare system. Way more capitalist than the UK or Canada's.
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On June 22 2011 08:20 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 08:09 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On June 22 2011 07:37 pirates wrote:On June 22 2011 07:31 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: maybe instead of robbing a bank he might get a job maybe instead of robbing a bank he should actually read the OP. i understand where this guy is coming from. i have never been to a doctor/dentist or any physician. it is outrageously expensive. a trip to the dentist can run you 2-6k EASILY, how do they expect you to be able to pay for this up front with no assistance? point out the part of the OP you think i missed, please also, you should get a job that provides insurance - that's what i did to remedy that situation On June 22 2011 07:38 OFCORPSE wrote:On June 22 2011 07:31 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: maybe instead of robbing a bank he might get a job Would you hire a 59 years old man with two ruptured discs, some type of "growth" on his chest and problems with his left foot? I think he need medical help before he can find a job, and how can he get medical help without insurance, which he would get if he had money? Did you just read the title or what? i legally would not be able to turn him down for employment due to those issues unless they would literally prevent him from doing the work he applied for - plenty of handicapped old men work at wal-mart what's with people not understanding that you need to do work to get anywhere in life? The amusing thing is that he'd have to work at walmart for a minimum of one year to get healthcare to remedy his situation. And who's to say his condition won't drastically worsen or become fatal after one year of no treatment?
i wonder what he's been doing for the past year? probably not working - the problem is going to be that people are going to try to live for free, then when something happens that costs money, or would be remedied by already being employed, they are shit out of luck - then try to live off of the system
if you read the OP, you'll see that he plans to just live off of social security on the beach for the rest of his life (after prison), this man has probably never been a productive member of society
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On June 22 2011 08:27 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 08:20 Grackodile wrote:On June 22 2011 08:17 FFGenerations wrote:On June 22 2011 07:58 StrangrDangr wrote:1) Limit the amount of money that the Pharmaceutical companies can charge for a pill. I don't care if it took your 50 million dollars to design the pill, you don't have to make 50 million of those LIFESAVING PILLS and charge 100 bucks each. What about the other 100 pills they spent $50 million on that turned out to be useless, should medical research be a pursuit that loses money? Maybe the cost is exorbitant, but how else will we puruade the best and the brightest to work for such an important goal. 4) Make accepting Medicare and Medicaid easier. There was a report by the AP that talked about a study done in Illinois. Children who were on state insurance were forced to wait for life saving specialists up to a month or two months longer than those children with private insurance. When your child has a "Holy shit, heart tumor" problem and the cardiologist says "Sorry, I have to make you wait a month and a half" while he squeezes in the private insurance baby two weeks from when they called there's something wrong.
Many doctors would not accept Medicare at all if they were allowed. They get paid much less than they would through other means. Of course when Doctors are working 110+ hour work weeks and get over $100,000 in debt from medical school I find it hard to blame them for wanting acceptable compensation. just wondering, what doctors work 22 hours a day? Residents. Surgical residents have frequently worked 120 hours in a week. They passed a law that you can't be scheduled for that now, but most still work upwards of 100 because they aren't paid worth shit and have a ton of debt to pay off so they moonlight to pay bills. weird job. they are surgical assistants reporting to the head doctor right? median salary is 94k in florida according to http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Physician-Assistant-Surgical-Salary-Details-Florida-NY.aspx
No. They are actual doctors that have graduated from medical school but aren't certified to be a practicing physician by themselves yet. So they are actual doctors working for doctors, whom get paid less than the nurses and PAs that you mentioned.
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Hey look a stunt of some guy to get health care with no actual reasons as to why he was broke in the first place and no actual information other then telling us he was sick and had no money.
You guys do realize that if you are actually ill you can walk up to a hospital and ask for help right? If you are unable to pay surprise surprise it get's charged to the state.
This story seems to just want to garner attention to an issue and judging by the article I might as well of gotten the story from msnbc oh wait it is from them, nevermind. I am sorry he's sick but this is just him trying to get attention and some news blokes capitalizing on it.
It's a silly story nonetheless. I would of robbed for a 1.99 buy my self a snack or two from the machines while the police came.
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I don't blame him, in fact I'm rather impressed by his decision. Manipulating the system? Sure, but if that's what you need to do to get medical attention then by all means go for it.
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On June 22 2011 08:37 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 08:29 Finrod1 wrote: just a short question for those who think capitalistic way of dealing with health care is good; does a non-profitable person deserves to live? like a disabled person, or maybe a old person which doesn't have any money left, or maybe someone really stupid, or someone who is chronicly ill? ... in the end all those persons are not making money and just bad for the state, because it has to somehow pay for them. so why don't you kill them? in a capitalistic way this is perfectly logic. Pretty sure you don't know what the definition of "capitalist" is. Because Germany has a pretty capitalist healthcare system. Way more capitalist than the UK or Canada's.
there are far to many definitions of capitalism. so which to choose? i dont want to argue about that, sry. i was adressing the persons that were saying it's too expensive for the system to take care of everyones health. then it should be to expensive to take care of those persons/conditions that i mentioned. but where to draw the line? i nerver said that the german healt care system is very good, or did i? it is not. ^^
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Wow that's pretty ridiculous in Canada you just walk into a hospital and they help you so that's pretty cool I think.
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Best part is even with health insurance you can get stuck paying SHITLOADS of fucking money because of bullshit loopholes and high ass deductibles/coinsurance.
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I've always been kind of amused by the disconnect between the American right wing and the rest of the first world when it comes to universal health care.
Right Wing: "Universal health care by government decree is wracked by moral hazard, wait lists, and skyrocketing costs. We need to deregulate and privatize health care even further in order to reach the free market solution."
Rest if the World: "Err...we live it, and it works. Call us healthcare socialists."
Rest of the World's Right Wing: http://www.latimes.com/health/la-fg-britain-health-care-20110613,0,1237142.story
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