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Lol what a dolt. Prison healthcare is terrible and they hit up your estate for it when you die.
Other people in thread saying there countries healthcare is free do not pay taxes  I know it is stylish in many countries to leach off the system and not pay taxes. In China it is grounds for execution. In the US they hit up your estate for it after you die. But US pays there taxes nonetheless.
This dumbass is dreaming if he thinks he is gonna get a coast property on a fixed income.
So why is government healthcare such a rip off? Same people who eat grease off the carpet pay the same rates as young people who do not even need healthcare. Just because a cost is labeled "taxes" doesnt mean its free.
Do people in other countries really think there healthcare comes out of the goodness of the medical communities hearts?
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On June 22 2011 09:08 TOloseGT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 09:04 RJGooner wrote:On June 22 2011 08:56 acker wrote:I've always been kind of amused by the disconnect between the American right wing and the rest of the first world when it comes to universal health care. Right Wing: "Universal health care by government decree is wracked by moral hazard, wait lists, and skyrocketing costs. We need to deregulate and privatize health care even further in order to reach the free market solution." Rest if the World: "Err...we live it, and it works. Call us healthcare socialists." Rest of the World's Right Wing: http://www.latimes.com/health/la-fg-britain-health-care-20110613,0,1237142.story Yea.... except where do you think all the medical innovation is coming from that makes these universal healthcare systems better? Where do you think Canada gets all its drugs from? Is this supposed to be a valid argument? It's great that some medical innovations are developed here, that doesn't do the average Joe any good if he can't afford it. They're separate issues.
You have no idea how things work, do you? Researching a new medicine is incredibly expensive and it takes 7-10 years to get a drug approved and only 3/20 drugs give back revenue, not to forget that only one out of every ten thousand compounds actually becomes a drug approved for sale. Drugs don't grow on trees. They are invented and discovered because there is a certain motivation - money. America dominates the biopharmaceutical industry and accounts for 80% of research and development spending in that area. Pretty much almost all new drugs come from America.
Now, there is a special reason why this all happens in America but not, for example, Europe. There's much more innovation in America due to the possibility of huge gains by investing in the biopharmaceutical industry. Think about how many dozens of thousands of lives are saved every year because of these researches. Milton Friedman once said that a government system could be as efficient and even better than its privately run counterpart but in a government system there's always stagnation. Some may die because they couldn't afford healthcare - but think of the thousands that live every year because of this system too. Capitalism will prevail.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care#Research
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_industry#The_cost_of_innovation
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On June 22 2011 09:34 yema1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 09:08 TOloseGT wrote:On June 22 2011 09:04 RJGooner wrote:On June 22 2011 08:56 acker wrote:I've always been kind of amused by the disconnect between the American right wing and the rest of the first world when it comes to universal health care. Right Wing: "Universal health care by government decree is wracked by moral hazard, wait lists, and skyrocketing costs. We need to deregulate and privatize health care even further in order to reach the free market solution." Rest if the World: "Err...we live it, and it works. Call us healthcare socialists." Rest of the World's Right Wing: http://www.latimes.com/health/la-fg-britain-health-care-20110613,0,1237142.story Yea.... except where do you think all the medical innovation is coming from that makes these universal healthcare systems better? Where do you think Canada gets all its drugs from? Is this supposed to be a valid argument? It's great that some medical innovations are developed here, that doesn't do the average Joe any good if he can't afford it. They're separate issues. You have no idea how things work, do you? Researching a new medicine is incredibly expensive and it takes 7-10 years to get a drug approved and only 3/20 drugs give back revenue, not to forget that only one out of every ten thousand compounds actually becomes a drug approved for sale. Drugs don't grow on trees. They are invented and discovered because there is a certain motivation - money. America dominates the biopharmaceutical industry and accounts for 80% of research and development spending in that area. Pretty much almost all new drugs come from America. Now, there is a special reason why this all happens in America but not, for example, Europe. There's much more innovation in America due to the possibility of huge gains by investing in the biopharmaceutical industry. Think about how many dozens of thousands of lives are saved every year because of these researches. Milton Friedman once said that a government system could be as efficient and even better than its privately run counterpart but in a government system there's always stagnation. Some may die because they couldn't afford healthcare - but think of the thousands that live every year because of this system too. Capitalism will prevail. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care#Researchhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_industry#The_cost_of_innovation
That and you gotta pay koreans (just using them as an example because they have major patents that end up in many of the new drugs) for their ip to make your drug function. So you pay again and again for the new pills that you paid for the old pills. Go take a look at all the patents for even a new heart drug and you'll see you end paying them in the cost of that new pill or even old ones.
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On June 22 2011 09:30 dogabutila wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 05:53 Bibdy wrote:On June 22 2011 05:49 dogabutila wrote:
Someone explain to me why I should WANT global healthcare coverage? Realistically speaking, I see no reason why I should WANT to pay for joe smith's medical bills. I have plenty of bills to pay for on my own. Because if you get into a seriously bad accident/get a terrible ailment, society-at-large will have your back and get you back on your feet, with no immediate or enormous cost/debt expected from you. If you went into a non-socialized healthcare system, didn't pay for enough insurance, and had the same horrific accident/ailment, you're now in massive debt for the rest of your life, and your future prospects are now basically over. You didn't answer my question. I'm fully aware of how insurance works. I'm asking why I should want a mandated, forced, global healthcare system. If you are really sickly and stuff, of course you support it because you get other people to pay for your illnesses, but if you are really healthy then you are forced into paying for other people. Sure, some healthy people might decide the safety net is worth it but the failing of an individual mandate is that it removes the ability of people to choose. If I think that I could better prepare for health related costs on my own by setting aside money for the future then why should I not be able to do that? Why is more government the answer to everything? Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 05:51 Nightfly wrote:On June 22 2011 05:49 dogabutila wrote:
Someone explain to me why I should WANT global healthcare coverage? Realistically speaking, I see no reason why I should WANT to pay for joe smith's medical bills. I have plenty of bills to pay for on my own. Realistically speaking, it's probably not Joe Smith's medical bills you will be paying. Realistically speaking, I am. If I were part of a universal health insurance racket then I would be subsidizing those at higher risks then me.
theres basicly 2 points (for me)
1) I don't mind paying a bit more, even if I know I'm paying more than someone else, because I'm earning more to achieve "free" healthcare. It's like you said, I am willing to pay more, to have that net, not just for me, but for everyone I care, probably even for those I don't care.
2) thats the way democracy works. If the majority wants to have that kind of web, so be it, as long as it's not against something rudimental.
Seems like the majority of the us thinks they don't need healthcare, I'm fine with that, I just think they're wrong to put something as importan as your life on the scales 
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On June 22 2011 09:32 Auross wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 09:26 ahbeez wrote:USA has a lot of money allocated in military. Troops stationed all over the world and this actually led to those countries getting free healthcare, why spend on military if you are allied with the US and they have troops stationed in your country? Problem is this won't last forever. Spending $1,000,000~ to eliminate an enemy that just spent maybe $50 on their ak47 or homemade explosives doesn't add up to be cost effective (well it does because it's the safest way to fight a war but the US obviously doesn't have an unlimited amount of money) very much apparent now with all the budget cuts EVERYWHERE else to keep the military going. US economy was great because of it's military power but it will also deteriorate because of it as well. Not saying the US will collapse or anything but they can't run like this forever. Also countries with free healthcare and such might have to spend more on military if thats the case but who knows Sorry, but from your post we get the feeling that countries with free healthcare receive major help from the US military, wich is pretty off.
There is this... "cultural myth" is what I'd call it in the US that our military spending and foreign policy of the last several decades stabilizes the world effectively and stops other countries from spending more on military. You can see it a couple times in this thread.
I'm not sure how I feel about it, I just don't know enough about recent history, but I think Eisenhower saw what was coming and his warning was not well heeded.
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On June 22 2011 09:33 Medrea wrote:Lol what a dolt. Prison healthcare is terrible and they hit up your estate for it when you die. Other people in thread saying there countries healthcare is free do not pay taxes I know it is stylish in many countries to leach off the system and not pay taxes. In China it is grounds for execution. In the US they hit up your estate for it after you die. But US pays there taxes nonetheless. This dumbass is dreaming if he thinks he is gonna get a coast property on a fixed income. So why is government healthcare such a rip off? Same people who eat grease off the carpet pay the same rates as young people who do not even need healthcare. Just because a cost is labeled "taxes" doesnt mean its free. Do people in other countries really think there healthcare comes out of the goodness of the medical communities hearts?
nah people in other countries think it's "fair" to let everyone pay taxes, instead of just one human beeing paying a shitload of money because he got unlucky in some kind of accident he could not have affected and therefore having debts for the rest of his (ruined) life.
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On June 22 2011 09:28 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 05:49 dogabutila wrote:
Someone explain to me why I should WANT global healthcare coverage? Realistically speaking, I see no reason why I should WANT to pay for joe smith's medical bills. I have plenty of bills to pay for on my own. Take the US for example, each person of 300 millions people give 1 cent per day to cure sick people. That's 3 million dollars a day, and cost you what? 30 cent/month, or 3,4$ a year? There's no harm to cut 1 hamburger a year for sick people, you know? Of course the problem is not that easy, but you get my point.
Except 3 million a day is absolutely nothing and you'd need to charge about $10-$20 a day if not more
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So he is having trouble getting insurance due to his pre-existing conditions? I thought the point of insurance was to get it before you get sick, so to avoid such problems.
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On June 22 2011 09:46 StrangrDangr wrote:
So he is having trouble getting insurance due to his pre-existing conditions? I thought the point of insurance was to get it before you get sick, so to avoid such problems.
He would get medi-caid if he waited 5 years but he decided prison was better. :/
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On June 22 2011 09:46 StrangrDangr wrote:
So he is having trouble getting insurance due to his pre-existing conditions? I thought the point of insurance was to get it before you get sick, so to avoid such problems.
and you haven't considered that he couldn't afford it? Seriously.. use a little common sense
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On June 22 2011 09:39 TheFrankOne wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 09:32 Auross wrote:On June 22 2011 09:26 ahbeez wrote:USA has a lot of money allocated in military. Troops stationed all over the world and this actually led to those countries getting free healthcare, why spend on military if you are allied with the US and they have troops stationed in your country? Problem is this won't last forever. Spending $1,000,000~ to eliminate an enemy that just spent maybe $50 on their ak47 or homemade explosives doesn't add up to be cost effective (well it does because it's the safest way to fight a war but the US obviously doesn't have an unlimited amount of money) very much apparent now with all the budget cuts EVERYWHERE else to keep the military going. US economy was great because of it's military power but it will also deteriorate because of it as well. Not saying the US will collapse or anything but they can't run like this forever. Also countries with free healthcare and such might have to spend more on military if thats the case but who knows Sorry, but from your post we get the feeling that countries with free healthcare receive major help from the US military, wich is pretty off. There is this... "cultural myth" is what I'd call it in the US that our military spending and foreign policy of the last several decades stabilizes the world effectively and stops other countries from spending more on military. You can see it a couple times in this thread. I'm not sure how I feel about it, I just don't know enough about recent history, but I think Eisenhower saw what was coming and his warning was not well heeded.
It's true though. Look at Libya. EU countries can't even run a bombing campaign on their own and have to be helped by the US. Who refuels the planes? And supplies the bombs? I don't know how many people are aware of the fact that England and France ran out of munitions and were supplied by the United States for awhile. It's kind of sad because Libya is in the backyard of Europe and they can't sustain involvement on their own. The US is halfway across the world and is supporting the bombers logistically......
Why? Because the US is such a dominant part of NATO that other countries don't feel the need to spend more on domestic military forces because they can just use ours. It's kind of like in a 2v2 where one person will macro units hard so he can hold off the other team until his teammate can rush game winning tech. Except if the blue guy is only using medivacs and ravens because of political reasons and the teching guy has to use his couple of military units to fight things probably don't work out too well for them.
Just like Libya.
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There is no such thing as free health care. If you don't pay enough tax to cover what you health care costs, it is stolen health care. If you pay the same amount of tax towards health care as you use, it is no different than just paying for it, only you aren't free to choose. If you pay more towards health care than you use, you are being stolen from.
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On June 22 2011 09:51 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 09:46 StrangrDangr wrote:
So he is having trouble getting insurance due to his pre-existing conditions? I thought the point of insurance was to get it before you get sick, so to avoid such problems. and you haven't considered that he couldn't afford it? Seriously.. use a little common sense
He can afford a condo on the beach, he is clearly hurting for money. It was not from lack of money but rather a lack of forsight. Seriously.. read the op
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I bet they are not going to throw him in jail, and fine him a lot of money instead.
My opinion is the following. While he committed the act, he does not mens rae, So... I do not know if he can be tried for bank robbery.
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On June 22 2011 09:43 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 09:33 Medrea wrote:Lol what a dolt. Prison healthcare is terrible and they hit up your estate for it when you die. Other people in thread saying there countries healthcare is free do not pay taxes I know it is stylish in many countries to leach off the system and not pay taxes. In China it is grounds for execution. In the US they hit up your estate for it after you die. But US pays there taxes nonetheless. This dumbass is dreaming if he thinks he is gonna get a coast property on a fixed income. So why is government healthcare such a rip off? Same people who eat grease off the carpet pay the same rates as young people who do not even need healthcare. Just because a cost is labeled "taxes" doesnt mean its free. Do people in other countries really think there healthcare comes out of the goodness of the medical communities hearts? nah people in other countries think it's "fair" to let everyone pay taxes, instead of just one human beeing paying a shitload of money because he got unlucky in some kind of accident he could not have affected and therefore having debts for the rest of his (ruined) life.
See I hear this argument a lot but it's not really realistic either. How many people get randomly unlucky? vs how many people choose to believe that they are unlucky?
Most medical issues are not random, and are generally a combination of lifestyle and genetic factors. All of these are predictable. People should educate themselves and assess their own risk.
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On June 22 2011 05:03 TheKefka wrote:
I'm always amused that when some American politician,like Obama for instance,raises the question of restructuring health care and making it socially available to everyone,a guy like Glen Beck(and there are quite a few like him in the congress,nuts) yells from the top of his lungs COMMUNISM,SOCIALISM AAAAAA.
And the sad thing is people buy it.Silly USA.
QFT
I can't tell you how many times I meet people like this. It is SO frustrating because they are close-minded and brain washed. They do NOT do their own research, and only listen to stupid rabble like Glen Beck and the Fox News pinheads.
(Fox News is not the only news station with heavy bias, however I feel it is the most detrimental bias to keep our country back from being better.)
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On June 22 2011 09:55 StrangrDangr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 09:51 BlackJack wrote:On June 22 2011 09:46 StrangrDangr wrote:
So he is having trouble getting insurance due to his pre-existing conditions? I thought the point of insurance was to get it before you get sick, so to avoid such problems. and you haven't considered that he couldn't afford it? Seriously.. use a little common sense He can afford a condo on the beach, he is clearly hurting for money. It was not from lack of money but rather a lack of forsight. Seriously.. read the op
 you read the OP...
He is hoping for a three-year sentence. He would then be able to collect Social Security when he got out and said he would head for the beach.
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On June 22 2011 09:45 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 09:28 canikizu wrote:On June 22 2011 05:49 dogabutila wrote:
Someone explain to me why I should WANT global healthcare coverage? Realistically speaking, I see no reason why I should WANT to pay for joe smith's medical bills. I have plenty of bills to pay for on my own. Take the US for example, each person of 300 millions people give 1 cent per day to cure sick people. That's 3 million dollars a day, and cost you what? 30 cent/month, or 3,4$ a year? There's no harm to cut 1 hamburger a year for sick people, you know? Of course the problem is not that easy, but you get my point. Except 3 million a day is absolutely nothing and you'd need to charge about $10-$20 a day if not more
It would cost the 311 million people in the US $7500 a year on average to cover the US's health care expenditures. That's about 2500 hamburgers.
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On June 22 2011 10:01 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 09:55 StrangrDangr wrote:On June 22 2011 09:51 BlackJack wrote:On June 22 2011 09:46 StrangrDangr wrote:
So he is having trouble getting insurance due to his pre-existing conditions? I thought the point of insurance was to get it before you get sick, so to avoid such problems. and you haven't considered that he couldn't afford it? Seriously.. use a little common sense He can afford a condo on the beach, he is clearly hurting for money. It was not from lack of money but rather a lack of forsight. Seriously.. read the op you read the OP... Show nested quote +He is hoping for a three-year sentence. He would then be able to collect Social Security when he got out and said he would head for the beach.
I think are misjudgeing how much social security is. You cannot afford a condo on your social security check.
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EPT
