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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On June 22 2011 10:03 domovoi wrote: It would cost the 311 million people in the US $7500 a year on average to cover the US's health care expenditures. That's about 2500 hamburgers. But after everyone eats 2500 fewer hamburgers per year our healthcare costs are bound to go down | ||
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
On June 22 2011 10:05 StrangrDangr wrote: I think are misjudgeing how much social security is. You cannot afford a condo on your social security check. Mexico you can. | ||
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jHERO
China167 Posts
but i guess you only see that in japan + Show Spoiler + lol | ||
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domovoi
United States1478 Posts
On June 22 2011 10:05 BlackJack wrote: But after everyone eats 2500 fewer hamburgers per year our healthcare costs are bound to go down No doubt. 2500 fewer hamburgers per year is 4000 fewer calories per day. We'd all be dead of starvation, which is a good way to keep health care costs down. | ||
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
There is no reason for a person to die of cancer or any other deadly disease. Every time I hear about someone dying in the news, or taking great pains to try and survive as long as possible, I question where the system failed them. We've got a lot of ignorant capitalists here who believe in things like natural selection and think it's normal for people to die. Well it's not. We just haven't advanced politically far enough to end death, like many countries have ended poverty. I just hope America isn't beat to solving mortality by a nation like Cuba or North Korea. That would be very embarrassing considering how many economic advantages we have. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On June 22 2011 10:05 StrangrDangr wrote: I think are misjudgeing how much social security is. You cannot afford a condo on your social security check. That's not because he's sitting on a pile of cash. It's because he's a moron. The article even says he has a "depleted bank account." | ||
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DerNebel
Denmark648 Posts
On June 22 2011 09:53 OsoVega wrote: There is no such thing as free health care. If you don't pay enough tax to cover what you health care costs, it is stolen health care. If you pay the same amount of tax towards health care as you use, it is no different than just paying for it, only you aren't free to choose. If you pay more towards health care than you use, you are being stolen from. I agree with you on your main point. There is no such thing as free healthcare, there must always be a price. That's just how the world works. But then saying that it's stolen healthcare if your treatment costs more than you pay I feel is ridiculous. In countries with free healthcare the agreement is that everyone pays their share to make sure they themselves can get treated, no matter how bad their illness is. It is, essentially, a nationwide insurance. You don't call a car repair stolen if it costs more than you have paid in insurance rates, do you? Then why would this be different? It also works the other way around. The insurance company does not steal anything from you if you don't wreck your car. They simply make sure that if you wreck your car, it's going to be fine no problem at all. | ||
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StrangrDangr
United States291 Posts
On June 22 2011 10:10 BlackJack wrote: That's not because he's sitting on a pile of cash. It's because he's a moron. The article even says he has a "depleted bank account." Now you are confusing cause and effect, the cause is him not getting insured when he had a job and the effect is him now being out of money. It is not the other way around. I will agree that he is a moron though. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On June 22 2011 10:10 jdseemoreglass wrote: One day mankind will solve death. If we just have enough of other people's money and we have scientific progress we can achieve immortality for everyone. Of course it won't happen in America, because we are backwards and get everything wrong and should learn from the other countries how to behave. There is no reason for a person to die of cancer or any other deadly disease. Every time I hear about someone dying in the news, or taking great pains to try and survive as long as possible, I question where the system failed them. We've got a lot of ignorant capitalists here who believe in things like natural selection and think it's normal for people to die. Well it's not. We just haven't advanced politically far enough to end death, like many countries have ended poverty. I just hope America isn't beat to solving mortality by a nation like Cuba or North Korea. That would be very embarrassing considering how many economic advantages we have. Are you trolling or do you really believe what you write down? I hope it's the former | ||
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ZiegFeld
351 Posts
The danger of physical harm by other inmates, the poor qualify food, lack of fresh air, limited exercise not to mention being confined in a small space day after day. I really hope he does make it to the beach house. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On June 22 2011 10:16 StrangrDangr wrote: Now you are confusing cause and effect, the cause is him not getting insured when he had a job and the effect is him now being out of money. It is not the other way around. And where was that in the article..? Don't state your speculation like it's fact | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On June 22 2011 09:57 dogabutila wrote: See I hear this argument a lot but it's not really realistic either. How many people get randomly unlucky? vs how many people choose to believe that they are unlucky? Most medical issues are not random, and are generally a combination of lifestyle and genetic factors. All of these are predictable. People should educate themselves and assess their own risk. That's exactly my point. There's an EXTREMLY low amount of people who get unlucky, like REALY EXTREMLY low. But those are fucked for the rest of their lifes for no other reason than beeing unlucky. I'm not talking about a cough or something like that. We got to pay 10€ everytime we go to a doctor in germany. Noone cares about that. But one might care about some serious problems, that are that rare and more importantly costly, that a single person might not be able to pay for it. I don't know what the numbers for stuff like cancer or genetic illnesses are (really don't know what it's called in english sry, guess it's clear what I'm talking about?). Let's say one out a thousand gets cancer or something like that, just for the purpose of numbers. Do you think it's fair that the guy has to pay for the treatment himself (aprox: shittons of money) and 999 people who got lucky, because they don't have cancer don't have to pay? not even a single cent? If you think that's fair I'm glad I'm not living in the us. Of course there's things like alcoholics who got an increased chance to need a new liver someday and therefore you could probably say it's their own fault but still, as long as we're able to help I think we should do, no matter what. | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On June 22 2011 09:07 acker wrote: I've always been kind of amused by the disconnect between the American right wing and the rest of the first world when it comes to universal health care. Right Wing: "Universal health care by government decree is wracked by moral hazard, wait lists, innovative atrophy, and skyrocketing costs. We need to deregulate and privatize health care even further in order to reach the free market solution." Rest if the World: "Err...we live it, and it works. Call us healthcare socialists." Rest of the World's Right Wing: http://www.latimes.com/health/la-fg-britain-health-care-20110613,0,1237142.story Added: http://www.cbc.ca/story/canadavotes2006/national/2005/12/02/elxn-harper-healthcare.html On June 22 2011 09:16 RJGooner wrote: I love how you just repeated what I said and didn't respond to it. Are you going to contend that that's not the case? If so, evidence? If you feel that I've misrepresented the American right wing somewhere in this dialog, feel free to correct me  I'm pretty sure I've nailed the gist of most of your logics somewhere in the right-wing line in a neutral manner, but I might have left one or two out. | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On June 22 2011 04:34 Razith wrote: So what happened to all his money? Why couldn't he afford health care in the first place? Bro I make quite a bit of money but my surgery on my wrist would have cost me 13000 dollars if I didn't have amazing health insurance. 13000 is not a feasible amount to pay for anything short of a car or a house down payment. | ||
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DrBoo
Canada1177 Posts
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Tremendous
Denmark155 Posts
The governments DOES NOT run the hospitals, they also have no say direct say in the treatment of patients. The government provides FUNDING and oversight. They dont have gestapo-ish stormtroopers walking the halls telling the doctors who they can treat and who that cant treat. The idea that the cost of a universal healthcare system is much higher then a privatized system is also untrue. In fact, most EU countries with a universal healthcare system spend less pr. capita on healthcare than the US, because the systems end up simpler so you can cut out a lot of the buracracy which brings down costs signeficantly. fx. Take the Danish system http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_13261279 Universal healthcare isnt a scary communist buggyman or an enormous cashsink. | ||
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LaSt)ChAnCe
United States2179 Posts
On June 22 2011 10:27 Tremendous wrote: I feel like there are some misunderstandings as to what a socialized healthcare system actualy means and what the governments role in it is. The governments DOES NOT run the hospitals, they also have no say direct say in the treatment of patients. The government provides FUNDING and oversight. They dont have gestapo-ish stormtroopers walking the halls telling the doctors who they can treat and who that cant treat. The idea that the cost of a universal healthcare system is much higher then a privatized system is also untrue. In fact, most EU countries with a universal healthcare system spend less pr. capita on healthcare than the US, because the systems end up simpler because you cut out a lot of the buracracy the costs go down signeficantly. fx. Take the Danish system http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_13261279 Universal healthcare isnt a scary communist buggyman or an enormous cashsink. i also imagine the insurance that hospitals have to pay outside of the US is much cheaper due to the significantly (assumption, correct me if i'm wrong) lower amount of lawsuits (as well as the lack of lawsuits themselves, let alone the insurance) | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On June 22 2011 10:08 domovoi wrote: No doubt. 2500 fewer hamburgers per year is 4000 fewer calories per day. We'd all be dead of starvation, which is a good way to keep health care costs down. Eat rice, dude, like the Asians. But seriously, US healthcare cost is stupid, every time someone got sick, somebody gets a new car. One of my friends got into a car accident, although he was fine, he was forced into the ambulance, brought to the hospital, sit there 3 hours, talk to the doctor 10 minutes, and got a $8000 hospital +$500 ambulance service + $500 doctor bill. The only thing the doctor gave him is a subscription for a painkiller pill, which he doesn't need to use if he doesn't feel headache in the morning. | ||
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Tremendous
Denmark155 Posts
On June 22 2011 10:31 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: i also imagine the insurance that hospitals have to pay outside of the US is much cheaper due to the significantly (assumption, correct me if i'm wrong) lower amount of lawsuits (as well as the lack of lawsuits themselves, let alone the insurance) Indeed. When doctors dont have to worry about the cost of the treatments then they will provide the best possible help they can. Also, as they dont feel obligated to "cut corners" for the insurance companies there are a lot less problems with people getting poor treatment. | ||
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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
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