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InvalidID
United States1050 Posts
On June 15 2011 13:18 Consolidate wrote: I wasn't keeping up with the news. My mistake. Yes, it is doubtful the US would back any of the parties but the Philippines in the matter, outside of countering the expansionist interests of China through Vietnam. The Philippines were actually a part of the US from 1898-1946, when they were peacefully granted independence through referendum. They have since enjoyed very close relations. | ||
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MassacrisM
United Kingdom149 Posts
The Chinese have been pulling all sorts of stunts to affect Vietnam's security and economy for like ever. But this rising tension is really uncalled for. They must have their heads up their asses if they think this will help them in any way at this age. It should also be pointed out that Vietnam has never really been the ' traditional ' commie type. It was all abandoned since the reformed called " Doi Moi " some time ago. TBH I believe the Vietnamese government is looking to become more like a democratic system rather than pure communist, but cuz of Ho Chi Minh's vision(Communism) they try to keep this as low as possible. | ||
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billyX333
United States1360 Posts
On June 15 2011 08:51 slappy wrote: China outsources labor?!!? lmfao sry that was funny to me... vietnam's minimum wage (last i checked) was 1/2 that of china's. most manufacturers (chinese, taiwanese, koreans etc) have been moving from china to vietnam over the past decade. Last year, vietnam's minimum wage was roughly ~40 dollars/month and China's was ~80-100/month this is a bigger difference than you might think for a manufacturer especially if you are producing millions of products per order for sometimes only 1-2 cents profit per unit | ||
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6639 Posts
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Empyrean
17038 Posts
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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
On June 15 2011 14:43 Empyrean wrote: The main party line is that China doesn't have military ambitions in the region. ¬_¬ yeah! :D. On other note, Empyrean, do you play SC2 now? If so, do you have a CN server account? | ||
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Empyrean
17038 Posts
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
There is no comparison between China-Vietnam and US-Vietnam. One simple reason. China shares a border with Vietnam. The USA is on the other side of the world. The logistical challenges are completely different. Not only that, but cultural differences between the different powers are huge as well. Also, political constraints/climate etc again, completely different. Stop making this nonsensical comparison when talking about superpower vs 3rd world country. Second, Vietnam is just as much in the wrong. Anyone who's not blind and can read a map should be able to see that. According to the 200 mi rule, Vietnam barely touches the Spratleys and doesn't wholly cover the Paracels. Third, this will end up a conflict between gunboats and missiles at worst imo. No land-based conflict will happen. US will posture but hell no would they engage in any sort of armed conflict with China. That would be suicidal economically for BOTH sides. Just the specter of it alone would send world financial markets into a nosedive. | ||
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
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Empyrean
17038 Posts
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vohne
Philippines197 Posts
On June 15 2011 14:20 jello_biafra wrote: Man this region of the world is just getting crazier and crazier, NK vs SK, China/Taiwan issue, Thailand & Cambodia getting pissed at each other, Japan and SK over some islands (by far the least serious of these though I think), US concern over China's growing military ambitions in the region and now this...it's getting ridiculous. The Middle east has Israel/Palestine, the Iraq and Afganistan wars, Iran etc. Europe has financial catastrophes in Portugal, Ireland, Greece, Spain and pretty much all over. Russia/Georgia war 2008 etc. There are troubles everywhere imo. | ||
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Consolidate
United States829 Posts
On June 15 2011 13:42 MassacrisM wrote: I bet Chinese TLers have no idea what we're talking about. The Chinese have been pulling all sorts of stunts to affect Vietnam's security and economy for like ever. But this rising tension is really uncalled for. They must have their heads up their asses if they think this will help them in any way at this age. It should also be pointed out that Vietnam has never really been the ' traditional ' commie type. It was all abandoned since the reformed called " Doi Moi " some time ago. TBH I believe the Vietnamese government is looking to become more like a democratic system rather than pure communist, but cuz of Ho Chi Minh's vision(Communism) they try to keep this as low as possible. Oh please. I can't believe you buy that bullshit. Doi Moi is the Vietnamese equivalent of "________ with Chinese characteristics. Vietnam has no chance of transitioning into democracy anytime soon. | ||
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vohne
Philippines197 Posts
On June 15 2011 14:49 StorkHwaiting wrote: This thread has so many stupid false comparisons, historical non-facts, and just generally retarded comments on the first page alone. Jesus, what a clusterfuck. There is no comparison between China-Vietnam and US-Vietnam. One simple reason. China shares a border with Vietnam. The USA is on the other side of the world. The logistical challenges are completely different. Not only that, but cultural differences between the different powers are huge as well. Also, political constraints/climate etc again, completely different. Stop making this nonsensical comparison when talking about superpower vs 3rd world country. Second, Vietnam is just as much in the wrong. Anyone who's not blind and can read a map should be able to see that. According to the 200 mi rule, Vietnam barely touches the Spratleys and doesn't wholly cover the Paracels. Third, this will end up a conflict between gunboats and missiles at worst imo. No land-based conflict will happen. US will posture but hell no would they engage in any sort of armed conflict with China. That would be suicidal economically for BOTH sides. Just the specter of it alone would send world financial markets into a nosedive. True, there may be logistical differences, but that alone shouldn't stop anyone from trying to draw a comparison. Hardly was there ever any perfect metaphors for anything. You may also say that China is spelt differently to US, we shouldn't compare. The mere fact is, China and US have a huge military lead over Vietnam, and it is enough to give credibility that a superpower does not automatically trump a smaller country in a military conflict. If we're going to use proximity as a measure of the validity of the claims, you might as well put it to down whoever is closest gets it. If you are going by who has historical claims over it, then that is a different matter. Agree with your third point. | ||
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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
On June 15 2011 14:50 Empyrean wrote: Neither country is actually "communist." They are both single-party states, but neither of them actually subscribes much to actual communist ideals. This! Many people esp people in the West still think that China and Vietnam are some evil communist. Everybody loves to get rich nowaday, thats what its all about. And Empyrean, I myself don't like SC2 that much either, but maybe you should give it a try. BW will be here forever while SC2 maybe not lol. Damn these rainy days in Shanghai -_-. | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On June 15 2011 14:58 vohne wrote: True, there may be logistical differences, but that alone shouldn't stop anyone from trying to draw a comparison. Hardly was there ever any perfect metaphors for anything. You may also say that China is spelt differently to US, we shouldn't compare. The mere fact is, China and US have a huge military lead over Vietnam, and it is enough to give credibility that a superpower does not automatically trump a smaller country in a military conflict. If we're going to use proximity as a measure of the validity of the claims, you might as well put it to down whoever is closest gets it. If you are going by who has historical claims over it, then that is a different matter. Agree with your third point. You're going to compare a transglobal conflict to a conflict between two powers that share a border? Do you realize the exponential difference in costs between the two types of conflict? You're acting like this is just driving down a different road. Logistics are 9/10ths of war nowadays and your example was silly. What are you talking about proximity as measure of validity. Do you know what UNCLOS is? | ||
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NeonFox
2373 Posts
On June 15 2011 14:50 Irave wrote: Good read, thanks for the information. I don't think this will escalate into a war the US will intervene well before that. I don't think the US would intervene against a country which holds around 1/10th of it's debt. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On June 15 2011 14:50 Empyrean wrote: Neither country is actually "communist." They are both single-party states, but neither of them actually subscribes much to actual communist ideals. What is the quote China's people gave up worshiping gods for mao then gave up mao for worshiping the dollar. a stint on how china has changed economically forget the exact quote | ||
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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
On June 15 2011 15:09 semantics wrote: What is the quote China's people gave up worshiping gods for mao then gave up mao for worshiping the dollar. a stint on how china has changed economically forget the exact quote Nah, Everyone in China is still worshiping Mao since hes on every paper currency available. I myself love his red face on the 100RMB bill alot  | ||
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Empyrean
17038 Posts
On June 15 2011 15:01 Caphe wrote: This! Many people esp people in the West still think that China and Vietnam are some evil communist. Everybody loves to get rich nowaday, thats what its all about. And Empyrean, I myself don't like SC2 that much either, but maybe you should give it a try. BW will be here forever while SC2 maybe not lol. Damn these rainy days in Shanghai -_-. I played it for a few months, but found it tedious and boring. I didn't enjoy playing it, and I didn't enjoy watching it either. I still keep up with the BW scene, though. Also, you're in Shanghai too? We should meet up for lunch or something! I actually prefer the rainy days because it means it's not oppressively hot X_X PM me and we'll work something out. (ok I'm gonna stop derailing the thread now ._.) EDIT: And I think I heard somewhere that the "official" stance on Mao is something along the lines of "70% right; 30% wrong." | ||
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