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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
On June 15 2011 12:33 c3rberUs wrote: Reality? I suggest you refer to the map in the OP for reality. Yep, this is not only about the islands in South China Sea. Its more about how ridiculous China claimed it water territory. I don't think the people that draw this red line event know Philippine exists when he basically draw the red line right next to Philippine land territory rolf. | ||
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vohne
Philippines197 Posts
On June 15 2011 12:27 furymonkey wrote: Normally the word to describe this is regional power. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_power Exactly this, in the region cause it is relative. | ||
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vohne
Philippines197 Posts
On June 15 2011 12:37 Caphe wrote: Yep, this is not only about the islands in South China Sea. Its more about how ridiculous China claimed it water territory. I don't think the people that draw this red line event know Philippine exists when he basically draw the red line right next to Philippine land territory rolf. Basically we can't swim in our own beaches..  | ||
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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cf/South_China_Sea.jpg/556px-South_China_Sea.jpg) | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15689 Posts
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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
Yeah, I feel you man. Especially you fought for it with blood during WW2 and now the Chinese just jump in, point finger and says its theirs. This will definately pull SEA nations closer together which is a good thing if we want to stop China from this ridiculous claim. | ||
Empyrean
16987 Posts
EDIT: China's claim as depicted in the OP is ridiculous, though X_X | ||
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InvalidID
United States1050 Posts
On June 15 2011 12:25 b0lt wrote: Which is ridiculous, because the Filipino claim to the islands is basically them going "I WANT THAT" in the 70s. Vietnam and China are the only ones that have claims that are based on reality, and it's debatable which side is in the right. By UN convention, the typical way in which sea boundaries are defined is a 200 n-mile EEZ. The Spratly islands have no indigenous population, the only people who live on them are on military bases. This would generally make them subject to the EEZ conventions, with a large portion of them in Philippine control. Of course in diplomacy, all things are fluid. There is a precedent of EEZs sometimes being defined by non-populated, or largely non-populated islands, due to historical precedent. France, for example, has an EEZ over a huge area of some of the richest fishing zones off of North America, by owning the tiny island of Saint Pierre, whose entire population of 14,000 basically exists because of the EEZ. | ||
c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Spratly_with_flags.jpg) | ||
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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
On June 15 2011 12:46 Mohdoo wrote: Wait, China actually claims that much sea territory? Ridiculous. Do they enforce it in any way? Do the local countries around that area encounter anything negative as a result of it? The line war draw by some random Chinese official in the 70-80s. China has nothing near to what the claim and didn't enforce it until recently when China economy is bombing and their thirst for oil grow bigger and bigger each day. What worst is they teach Chinese student with this map for many years now. Most chinese now are thinking SEA nation violate China territory O_O. A communist nation with blind patriotism is bad, very bad. | ||
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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
On June 15 2011 12:51 furymonkey wrote: Here is another clearer image of the current island occupants. + Show Spoiler + For what is worth, islands with China flag was Vietnam's till 1975, while North and South Vietnam was busing killing each other on land. China sent a task force to capture these islands from South Vietnamese navy. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15689 Posts
On June 15 2011 12:51 Caphe wrote: The line war draw by some random Chinese official in the 70-80s. China has nothing near to what the claim and didn't enforce it until recently when China economy is bombing and their thirst for oil grow bigger and bigger each day. What worst is they teach Chinese student with this map for many years now. Most chinese now are thinking SEA nation violate China territory O_O. A communist nation with blind patriotism is bad, very bad. Scary. It sounds like China is hoping that the SEA nations aren't able to unify themselves. A united group of SEA nations appealing to the international community, I'd assume, would keep them nice and safe ^_^ | ||
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Empyrean
16987 Posts
On June 15 2011 12:51 Caphe wrote: The line war draw by some random Chinese official in the 70-80s. China has nothing near to what the claim and didn't enforce it until recently when China economy is bombing and their thirst for oil grow bigger and bigger each day. What worst is they teach Chinese student with this map for many years now. Most chinese now are thinking SEA nation violate China territory O_O. A communist nation with blind patriotism is bad, very bad. This is quite ironic, given the first part of your post. You seem to be quite antagonistic toward China, but not much of it is founded on hard evidence or reasoning. In any case, I find China's territorial claims on the Spratly Islands to be ridiculous, but you have to realize that even if the government drew up those claims in the 70s, by going back and saying "oh wait guys, we were actually unreasonable," they lose a lot of face internally and would be met with criticism. Many Chinese youth (well, the ones who aren't completely disaffected anyway) are quite nationalistic. | ||
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vohne
Philippines197 Posts
On June 15 2011 12:45 furymonkey wrote: From what I've seen on the wikipedia, it seems everyone all has a share :O Yeah it does seem everyone has a share. But China maintains that it owns all of it, how do we negotiate on that? Great maps btw, keep em coming. As for me, I am Chinese born in the Philippines and raised there. Yet my views are strongly in favour of the Philippines, and as far as I am know considerate of all the facts and the obvious truths. ALSO: Why not split it? Philippines gets the two groups closest to it, the mischief islands and something else. Malaysia keeps where they are now. Vietnam gets the closest group to its south. While China gets Parcel islands. Done? I think my 12 year old sister would have come up with this solution. | ||
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Empyrean
16987 Posts
On June 15 2011 12:54 Mohdoo wrote: Scary. It sounds like China is hoping that the SEA nations aren't able to unify themselves. A united group of SEA nations appealing to the international community, I'd assume, would keep them nice and safe ^_^ China doesn't have to worry about this. You're forgetting that there's more to SEA than Vietnam/Thailand/Philippines/etc. There are also countries more amenable to Chinese interests, such as Malaysia and Singapore. You're also forgetting Indonesia, Australia, and NZ, three major countries that are still considered part of SEA. | ||
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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
On June 15 2011 12:54 Caphe wrote: For what is worth, islands with China flag was Vietnam's till 1975, while North and South Vietnam was busing killing each other on land. China sent a task force to capture these islands from South Vietnamese navy. Unfortunately that is just 1 side of the story, problem with these territory disputs, it goes back few hundred years. It is very hard to judge. | ||
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b0lt
United States790 Posts
On June 15 2011 12:33 c3rberUs wrote: Reality? I suggest you refer to the map in the OP for reality. On June 15 2011 12:36 vohne wrote: Look at any map of SEA with Spratley Islands, you will see that the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam are the countries closest to these Islands. "The archipelago lies off the coasts of the Philippines and Malaysia (Sabah), about one third of the way from there to southern Vietnam." Feel free to do the research, and check some maps out. The spratley islands closest to the Philippines could be almost swimmable from the closest land area in the Philippines rofl. "It's close to the Philippines" would only matter if there were no prior claims to the territory. But they were already claimed, by both China and Vietnam (via France), for about 100 years before the Philippines decided they wanted them. Should Canada gain control of Alaska because it's closer to it than the contiguous U.S.? | ||
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Abstinence
United States328 Posts
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Consolidate
United States829 Posts
On June 15 2011 12:56 Empyrean wrote: This is quite ironic, given the first part of your post. You seem to be quite antagonistic toward China, but not much of it is founded on hard evidence or reasoning. In any case, I find China's territorial claims on the Spratly Islands to be ridiculous, but you have to realize that even if the government drew up those claims in the 70s, by going back and saying "oh wait guys, we were actually unreasonable," they lose a lot of face internally and would be met with criticism. Many Chinese youth (well, the ones who aren't completely disaffected anyway) are quite nationalistic. I don't know man. The Spratly's have never really been held by anyone for any significant length of time. Historically speaking, both China and Vietman claim to be the ones to have first charted them during ancient times. Proximity isn't a great justification for ownership - take Hawaii for example. I'm 99% sure that China will get the Spratlys because might makes right in cases like these. | ||
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