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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
On May 27 2011 15:09 GGTeMpLaR wrote: You really have no slight idea why that is illegal?would the prayer have hurt anyone? no It's a public school funded by the government imposing religion on students. It hurts you even more than  Reach punching you in the face.It hurts your whole country's freedom. It's not a victim-less crime. All of you are victims. | ||
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Popss
Sweden176 Posts
On May 27 2011 15:15 atheistaphobe wrote: Social Sciences prove again and again that devout Christians live a healthier life and that prayer has an effect. Atheism is nothing. It cannot be proved. . What about atheism have to be proved. I actually really don't get that :S | ||
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blah_blah
346 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14211 Posts
 + Show Spoiler + On May 27 2011 14:48 Supamang wrote: Uhh, i highly doubt the argument for the theory of evolution was made for the purpose of hating religion lol. and how the fuck does the Big Bang theory get tied into human evolution lol? you sound like youre ranting and throwing all of the things that piss you off into one bundle. Just because they contradict your belief doesnt mean they were all created to attack your beliefs. Oh and how wildly inaccurate is carbon dating? I honestly dont know anything about carbon dating so if you could send me a link about its inaccuracies id greatly appreciate that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating + Show Spoiler + On May 27 2011 14:46 krbz wrote: Evolution is backed by studies, experiments, statistics, and is widely verifiable by many people. Christianity is backed by nothing but a 2000 year old book. The two are not in any way comparable. You're situation is flawed. Evolution is an constantly Argued on THEORY (like gravity lulz) that hasn't been nailed down to a series of facts sense Darwin published it in the first place. Its been "contradicted" and "supported" so many times that it wouldn't make sense to the guy anymore. You make such wild assumptions about Christianity it saddens me. the old Testament is a lot older then 2000 years old as its pretty much the tora and Koran with some changed and translations. It been backed up by pretty much every single part in the book. But your last point is correct. our Situation is flawed. My view Requires my Faith that I cannot physically share and yours requires facts that you are ever searching for. Perhaps this dance will always be done in our existence. Such things entertain me so much about our race. + Show Spoiler + On May 27 2011 14:45 Zzoram wrote: Do you realize that carbon dating is only used for things 60,000 years old to things a few thousand years old? And that other dating methods are used for time periods outside that range? If it was just used for that then we wouldn't have a problem now would we? + Show Spoiler + On May 27 2011 14:45 valedictory wrote: I don't quite understand what you are trying to say anymore. Are you arguing against science in general? Specific fields of science? Are you suggesting scientific revisioning? Are you saying state should not be allowed to sponsor science when its results or conclusions are inconsistent with the religions or beliefs of individuals? I think your trying to complexify this too much. I don't want to be tought something I don't believe in in school and you don't either. this thread is about religion in schools and I'd like to keep it somewhere near there. + Show Spoiler + On May 27 2011 14:54 Popss wrote: Actually you sort of answered you're own question. Considering the uncompromisable scale of the universe chances are there's gonna be a freak accident somewhere. I was counter trolling you about how you think that we're nothing but a freak accident ala your parents didn't want you and you where an accident. I don't believe we're all an accident. Do you now see what I did there? + Show Spoiler + On May 27 2011 14:55 valedictory wrote: Even if you proved irreconcilably that carbon dating is grossly inaccurate, you've still accomplished nothing. The data acquired from those methods are still the best explanation to date, the theory of evolution still stands, the scientific method is in tact, the government institutions of the US are still separated from religion, Fowler was still fully in the legal right and I have no idea how how whatever ambiguous point you are trying to make is effected. You're derailing so hard and with such an age old debate that you must be trolling. 1. Just because its the best explanation to date I should take it as fact? 2. the institutions are separate from the State and the influences of the church but the people never are. 3. Welcome to religion vs science. 4. Yes he Is in the legal right. But how does what he did make him any different then the kkk rally my dad has to risk his life protecting because they get the same freedoms that he does? + Show Spoiler + On May 27 2011 14:56 WGarrison wrote: Real quick rundown of the legal difference between evolution and creationism. Creationism theory is a religious theory hands down. As such it is not available to be backed by a government funded venue. Evolution theory is a scientific theory which is different. Let us suppose we take a small leap an say that atheism is a religion. Even if atheism is a religion the theory of evolution is not attributed to the atheist beliefs but is a scientific theory (science is not a religion, legally or otherwise). Attributing evolution theory to atheism is equivalent to attributing trigonometry to atheism. Theory of evolution is not attributed to a religion or quasi religious (atheism) entity and is therefore not affected by the freedom of religion amendment. Trig was invented by the sun worshipers of Egypt to build the pyramids to them. Algebra was invented by the Arabs. Your point is moot. Well wanted to get all that out of my system its now 1:20 in the morning and I really need to get this project done for tomorrow or my grade will die. I feel that Teamliquid has and will pretty much be the only place that debates like this will ever not just devolve into random flame fests that people just get banned from. I respect my opponents in this and I hope you give me the same. If you wish to respectfully debate it anymore please pm me. | ||
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KSMB
United States100 Posts
On May 27 2011 15:15 atheistaphobe wrote:Social Sciences prove again and again that devout Christians live a healthier life and that prayer has an effect. Absolute horseshit. | ||
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TheLink
Australia2725 Posts
On May 27 2011 15:15 hypercube wrote: Except the prayer itself. It's a matter of framing. You can say he was "shitting over an activity they loved". Or you can say he was complaining about an illegal practice. Ok, I'll ignore the schools response as that is slightly more convoluted and I can make just as good an argument with the parents. Why do we hate the parents when what they did is legal? Because they are morally wrong, and I think Fowler was morally wrong to destroy an illegal practice. On May 27 2011 15:13 Blindo wrote: To everyone who says the kid should have just pretended to pray or shut up, how many people here that are Christian would want to sit and have an Islamic or Jewish prayer at their graduation? I can't believe these parents wouldn't respect him enough to let him have his own beliefs. In a predominantly Jewish/Islamic community yes I would. | ||
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WGarrison
United States96 Posts
On May 27 2011 15:15 StrangrDangr wrote: Just like how our money alienates the non-Christians, fortunately I am willing to take any of that darn alenating money off your hands. Our currency does in fact alienate non-Christians and is unconstitutional. The courts are dropping the ball on this one. Also, my money is mine thank you. | ||
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atheistaphobe
22 Posts
On May 27 2011 15:16 EmeraldSparks wrote: christianity cannot be proved either dohohohoho [citation needed] Christianity can be proved. Thats the whole point of it. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
On May 27 2011 15:18 Zzoram wrote: Even in Canada I had often felt like I didn't belong in my public high school (years ago) because of how Christian the administration was and how they kept doing prayers over the microphone at all sorts of ceremonies. A large chunk of the student body wasn't Christian and clearly felt very awkward during these prayers, but nobody had the courage to speak up because nobody wanted to be attacked. Heh I am aware how the fanatical people can treat people (im spoiled in the way that my family is deeply religious but won't treat you like shit if you don't believe) Thats why these fanatics baffle me since its easy to just respect other people (you know like religion TEACHES). I was just being an ass because I dislike sweeping generalizations. | ||
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Gecko
United States519 Posts
On May 27 2011 15:15 atheistaphobe wrote: Social Sciences prove again and again that devout Christians live a healthier life and that prayer has an effect. Atheism is nothing. It cannot be proved. . did you seriously just make this account to troll people? if so, then well played. EDIT:well played... | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
On May 27 2011 15:15 StrangrDangr wrote: Just like how our money alienates the non-Christians, fortunately I am willing to take any of that darn alenating money off your hands. I have no idea what this means. On May 27 2011 15:20 WGarrison wrote: Our currency does in fact alienate non-Christians and is unconstitutional. The courts are dropping the ball on this one. Also, my money is mine thank you. Oh, I forgot about that! I don't use cash anyways, but ya cash shouldn't have religious anything on it. I'm sure Christians wouldn't be happy if US dollars had "Praise Allah!" on it. | ||
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aguy38
131 Posts
On May 27 2011 15:16 IntoTheWow wrote: Yeah, but the law would. It's a victimless crime, but it's still a crime. And you know what, If I walked in the street naked, the police would be called and I would be arrested. So I hope that law is applied to them, the same way the law is applied on me You should become a nudist first then sue for discrimination XD. anyway,I think overall the kid came out on top in this whole situation. He gets college paid for, he gets out of the town that no longer wanted him, and he gets away from his parents that are assholes. I do get your point about victimless crimes etc etc, but it seems to me that he actually gained a fair amount by doing what he did be it right or wrong. | ||
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419
Russian Federation3632 Posts
On May 27 2011 15:13 Blindo wrote: To everyone who says the kid should have just pretended to pray or shut up, how many people here that are Christian would want to sit and have an Islamic or Jewish prayer at their graduation? I can't believe these parents wouldn't respect him enough to let him have his own beliefs. Hmm... Can I say that I wouldn't mind? (I really don't see how people are suffering irreparable mental trauma as a result of religious activity...) On another note, I don't see state taxpayers up in arms when their dollars that go to state universities are used to invite religious and humanist speakers. I know the Supreme Court precedents are different, but to what degree does government have to be severed from promoting religion in order not to violate the 1st Amendment?. Its not an easy question. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On May 27 2011 15:19 VIB wrote: You really have no slight idea why that is illegal? It's a public school funded by the government imposing religion on students. It hurts you even more than Reach punching you in the face.It hurts your whole country's freedom. It's not a victim-less crime. All of you are victims. how is it imposing religion on students? if I listen to the prayer is there a 5% chance I get converted every second I listen? my freedom is being hurt at all, I feel like the only victims here are the ones who have to have everything their way or no one can have anything at all | ||
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blah_blah
346 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On May 27 2011 15:20 atheistaphobe wrote: Christianity can be proved. Thats the whole point of it. Not to derail, but, your proof then? | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On May 27 2011 15:22 blah_blah wrote: The thing is that it doesn't even matter what the kid's motivations for doing it are, the law is 100% on his side. The same people who use the glib justification that it's harmless are the same people who would be vehemently against it if it was a prayer from a different religion. yea, except you've got people like me who aren't even religious and aren't bothered by it at all there are no prayers for me, therefore I should never be forced to listen to anyones prayers or it's wrong and destroying my freedom right? is that how it works rofl | ||
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WGarrison
United States96 Posts
On May 27 2011 15:20 sermokala wrote: Trig was invented by the sun worshipers of Egypt to build the pyramids to them. Algebra was invented by the Arabs. Your point is moot. I don't understand how my point is moot. | ||
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johanngrunt
Hong Kong1555 Posts
Racism is discrimination based on race. This situation is discrimination based on religious beliefs. (or more specifically, discrimination because his opinions don't agree with the majority) Also, didn't want to say this initially, but female circumcision is a tradition too. However it's illegal in the US since 1996. If someone was performing female circumcision would you stand up and say something or just shut up since it's tradition? | ||
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sharkeyanti
United States1273 Posts
Standing up to this type of thing is common, but the story here is the reaction. The leak, teacher and student body responses, and the parent response are all noteworthy because of their severity. One would hope that others would have a passing interest on why Damon felt his liberty was affected, but the student received only malice. | ||
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