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Pokerstars is an online poker site. Pokerstrategy is an educational training site. They are not the same site. The TSL3 is sponsored by pokerstrategy.com. |
United States43187 Posts
On April 17 2011 20:22 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 20:18 HoldenR wrote:
Loling at all the people saying "damn gubnamint gettin involved with economies~~!!"
This has nothing to do with economy, it's about law and regulation. While it obviously screws the people who have open accounts on there, it's not like the US government will just take all the money if they find them guilty. You guys are aware what happens when a company goes bankrupt, right? All assets are liquified, and then all creditors are paid out. And while the bigger ones usually get the bigger shares, these companies should be able to meet their debts almost entirely when liquified, considering most of their assets are probably just internet servers and bank accounts. You'd have to look at their balance sheet to be sure. They might even see large fines or jail times, but that'll be on the head of the CEO for gross mismanagement(fraud/illegal business conduct falls under this), allowing the assets of the company to still be turned into liquidity so any outstanding debts can be paid out.
Either way, while the money is frozen now, no one is stealing it from you. You'll probably get a large part - if not all of it - right back. More than likely, the Government will keep the assets as forfeiture for illegal activity. Do they give the investors in any other illegal activity their money back? No. They seize it (aka steal it). I know I am not getting my assets back that were stolen from me by the Government when they illegally confiscated and shut down the Liberty Dollar. Also, I fail to see how a multi-billion dollar industry has *nothing* to do with the economy. Your post was a giant non-sequitor considering these enterprises are not going bankrupt, they are getting raided & seized for illegal activity. For all those who had their property stolen, do not expect it back, as it most likely will not be returned.
I would be very surprised if they kept their money in any place the United States can grab it. A poker site is only as good as their reputation, they make silly amounts of money through rake but if anyone doubted the security of their bankroll they'd instantly cash out. The result is they have a massive incentive to absolutely guarantee players' bankrolls.
Q: Is my money safe with PokerStars?
A: Since beginning operations in 2001, PokerStars has conducted many millions of deposit, cashout, and transfer transactions for our players. In all cases we have, and will continue to, use legitimate and safe transaction methods which have been tested for safety and security.
Additionally, PokerStars player funds and account balances are held in separate accounts at a leading European bank, and are not used for any operational expenses. Such an arrangement ensures we can at all times fulfill any financial obligations to our players, and provides further reassurance that player funds are always secure with PokerStars.
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On April 17 2011 20:32 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 20:22 Wegandi wrote:On April 17 2011 20:18 HoldenR wrote:
Loling at all the people saying "damn gubnamint gettin involved with economies~~!!"
This has nothing to do with economy, it's about law and regulation. While it obviously screws the people who have open accounts on there, it's not like the US government will just take all the money if they find them guilty. You guys are aware what happens when a company goes bankrupt, right? All assets are liquified, and then all creditors are paid out. And while the bigger ones usually get the bigger shares, these companies should be able to meet their debts almost entirely when liquified, considering most of their assets are probably just internet servers and bank accounts. You'd have to look at their balance sheet to be sure. They might even see large fines or jail times, but that'll be on the head of the CEO for gross mismanagement(fraud/illegal business conduct falls under this), allowing the assets of the company to still be turned into liquidity so any outstanding debts can be paid out.
Either way, while the money is frozen now, no one is stealing it from you. You'll probably get a large part - if not all of it - right back. More than likely, the Government will keep the assets as forfeiture for illegal activity. Do they give the investors in any other illegal activity their money back? No. They seize it (aka steal it). I know I am not getting my assets back that were stolen from me by the Government when they illegally confiscated and shut down the Liberty Dollar. Also, I fail to see how a multi-billion dollar industry has *nothing* to do with the economy. Your post was a giant non-sequitor considering these enterprises are not going bankrupt, they are getting raided & seized for illegal activity. For all those who had their property stolen, do not expect it back, as it most likely will not be returned. I would be very surprised if they kept their money in any place the United States can grab it. A poker site is only as good as their reputation, they make silly amounts of money through rake but if anyone doubted the security of their bankroll they'd instantly cash out. The result is they have a massive incentive to absolutely guarantee players' bankrolls. Show nested quote +Q: Is my money safe with PokerStars?
A: Since beginning operations in 2001, PokerStars has conducted many millions of deposit, cashout, and transfer transactions for our players. In all cases we have, and will continue to, use legitimate and safe transaction methods which have been tested for safety and security.
Additionally, PokerStars player funds and account balances are held in separate accounts at a leading European bank, and are not used for any operational expenses. Such an arrangement ensures we can at all times fulfill any financial obligations to our players, and provides further reassurance that player funds are always secure with PokerStars.
I hope this to be the case, however, since Americans are under the jurisdiction of the Federal Government they will more than likely not allow your property to be returned since the act was conducted under their jurisdiction. That is the most likely outcome.
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yeah, and if they all go to jail, its obviously really important to them if the users get the money back.
wake up people.
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United States43187 Posts
On April 17 2011 20:37 phil.ipp wrote:
yeah, and if they all go to jail, its obviously really important to them if the users get the money back.
wake up people.
Stars is based on the Isle of Man, very much outside the jurisdiction of the US government. The money is kept in a bank in Europe and the majority of money in that bank is entirely legal, belonging to poker players from all around the world where online poker is legal. The only person with the code to which money belongs to who is pokerstars. The money is, imo, completely safe. Poker sites will live on because the US has no power over them and while they live there is nothing more important to them than making sure those cashouts get processed.
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On April 17 2011 20:22 Wegandi wrote:
For all those who had their property stolen, do not expect it back, as it most likely will not be returned.
Nobodies property was stolen. The government has frozen accounts/the site/cashier to investigate fraud. Please read the OP before posting.
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United States43187 Posts
On April 16 2011 20:25 DooMeR wrote:
GOOD NEW GUYS. PS just gave me a call. they are calling up SNEs and supernovas right now to let them know that their money is fine(talking about US players, i was assured that other countries its business as usual). And that apparently there will be means for cashing out when the week starts again. Thats pretty much the jist of it but it was very reassuring also proving why PS has always been the best poker site by a mile. Ask any long time SN or SNE and you will hear about how well they have been treated.
^pokerstars proving my points
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On April 17 2011 20:43 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 20:37 phil.ipp wrote:
yeah, and if they all go to jail, its obviously really important to them if the users get the money back.
wake up people. Stars is based on the Isle of Man, very much outside the jurisdiction of the US government. The money is kept in a bank in Europe and the majority of money in that bank is entirely legal, belonging to poker players from all around the world where online poker is legal. The only person with the code to which money belongs to who is pokerstars. The money is, imo, completely safe. Poker sites will live on because the US has no power over them and while they live there is nothing more important to them than making sure those cashouts get processed.
Yes, they are indeed outside the jurisdiction of the USG, however, citizens of the US are under the jurisdiction of the USG. The same reason they seize the property of those who engage in drug enterprises, who have money sent to them from outside the US. Once the money enters the US it falls under US jurisdiction. Also, it is USG policy through the IRS that essentially, wherever a US citizen is, the Government has jurisdiction thereof. If these companies are charged with illegal activities (online gambling is illegal in the US), the outcome will most likely be forfeiture.
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Hello.
I am a non US user of full tilt, and I got my money out of Full Tilt today. It was a bit of a hassle to get it to work, but I did the following:
1 - Downloaded / installed the new client from http://www.fulltiltpoker.co.uk
This allowed me to open full tilt, but I could not get the connection to the secure server to cash out.
2 - Do the following:
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1. Start -> type "notepad" at the place where you can search.
2. Right-click notepad
3. Click "Run as administrator"
4. Click OK if y 'which opens a popup
5. File -> Open
6. Open c: \ windows \ system32 \ drivers \ etc \ hosts
7. Add this line at the end of this file:
91.211.97.17 cashier.fulltiltpoker.com
8. Close your browser
9. Go on fulltilt
You should now be able to reach the transfers etc windows.
An equivalent for pokerstars can be found here, but I have no experience of this first hand.
http://forum.pokercollectif.com/poker-general/36244-fix-pour-acceder-withdrawl-full-tilt-ou-acceder-aux-sites-bloques.html
I hope that helps somebody.
gl.
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I don't know if this has been posted already since I didn't read through all the pages. I don't even play poker. I found this, maybe it helps:
http://www.businessinsider.com/online-poker-players-get-their-money-back-2011-4
They[the poker sites] have not being asked to forfeit that money given to them for gambling. There's no mention of seizing all assets or forcing the businesses to cease operations completely — unless that becomes necessary to pay their $3 billion in sought penalties.
In 2007, a similar case was brought against Netteller, an online payment processor that was also accused of working with gambling sites. They eventually reached a settlement with the government, paid fines, and stayed in business, and (as far as we can tell) most of their customers did get their money back.
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Good luck everyone, particularly those in the US. Still can't quite believe this has happened. My thoughts are with you. Here's my attempt at an article on the situation. http://frostmagazine.com/2011/04/mass-panic-as-fbi-seize-poker-sites/5754
I imagine the political fallout from this will be big. There must be millions of Americans with money online. I guess we will just have to wait and see.
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On April 17 2011 20:52 DR.Ham wrote:Hello. I am a non US user of full tilt, and I got my money out of Full Tilt today. It was a bit of a hassle to get it to work, but I did the following: 1 - Downloaded / installed the new client from http://www.fulltiltpoker.co.ukThis allowed me to open full tilt, but I could not get the connection to the secure server to cash out. 2 - Do the following: ------------------------------- 1. Start -> type "notepad" at the place where you can search. 2. Right-click notepad 3. Click "Run as administrator" 4. Click OK if y 'which opens a popup 5. File -> Open 6. Open c: \ windows \ system32 \ drivers \ etc \ hosts 7. Add this line at the end of this file: 91.211.97.17 cashier.fulltiltpoker.com 8. Close your browser 9. Go on fulltilt You should now be able to reach the transfers etc windows. An equivalent for pokerstars can be found here, but I have no experience of this first hand. http://forum.pokercollectif.com/poker-general/36244-fix-pour-acceder-withdrawl-full-tilt-ou-acceder-aux-sites-bloques.htmlI hope that helps somebody. gl.
I wouldn't trust this until you get official confirmation from the actual site. Sending your information to some arbitrary IP and downloading a client from what seems like an unofficial site. Be careful.
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Therapy. fulltiltpoker.co.uk is the new official site of FTP. I have no idea if you should or shouldn't trust the rest of the guide though.
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On April 17 2011 20:43 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 20:37 phil.ipp wrote:
yeah, and if they all go to jail, its obviously really important to them if the users get the money back.
wake up people. Stars is based on the Isle of Man, very much outside the jurisdiction of the US government. The money is kept in a bank in Europe and the majority of money in that bank is entirely legal, belonging to poker players from all around the world where online poker is legal. The only person with the code to which money belongs to who is pokerstars. The money is, imo, completely safe. Poker sites will live on because the US has no power over them and while they live there is nothing more important to them than making sure those cashouts get processed.
Precisely. There is no need for concern.
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On April 17 2011 20:43 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 20:37 phil.ipp wrote:
yeah, and if they all go to jail, its obviously really important to them if the users get the money back.
wake up people. Stars is based on the Isle of Man, very much outside the jurisdiction of the US government. The money is kept in a bank in Europe and the majority of money in that bank is entirely legal, belonging to poker players from all around the world where online poker is legal. The only person with the code to which money belongs to who is pokerstars. The money is, imo, completely safe. Poker sites will live on because the US has no power over them and while they live there is nothing more important to them than making sure those cashouts get processed.
But the issue is not if these websites have the money - I am sure they do. The question is how US customers gambling illegally will be able to retrieve those funds. That's how the entire crackdown occurred - banks were illegally processing transactions for the websites. If the strategies and the bribes the poker websites have been using get shut down, then how are you going to get a check issued to you when you want to cash out? What bank is going to process such a transaction if it is apparent that you are using it to illegally transfer funds in relation to online gambling?
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i believe this isnt only in usa since i live in mexico and i cant acces any of those websites perhaps some states of canada / mexico too?
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I was able to withdraw from pokerstars at about 6:30 pm EST 4/17/11.
so which sites are US players merging too?
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Any other sites for US players to play on or should we all just stop playing period.
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On April 18 2011 07:11 Gositerran wrote:
i believe this isnt only in usa since i live in mexico and i cant acces any of those websites perhaps some states of canada / mexico too?
The sites were taken down, but they moved their websites to the following.
www.pokerstars.eu & www.fulltiltpoker.co.uk I am not sure about Ultimate bet and the other site though.
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EPT
