EPTA mature discussion about the toronto slutwalk - Page 12
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benjammin
United States2728 Posts
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trias_e
United States520 Posts
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/776945.html Posted this sucker a long time back. Most of these links simply reiterate the same theme without any evidence or ciation whatsoever. Just because everyone says it is the case, doesn't make it true. Looking at the first PDF linked from Utah State (I have to chuckle a touch since I'm from Utah): 1) "Most convicted felons do not remember what their victims were wearing": Irrelevant. Men aren't attracted by clothing. They are attracted to women. Skimpy clothing doesn't mean the clothing is remembered, it means the woman is. 2) "Victims range in age from days old to those in their 90s": While true, what is omitted is the fact that 80% of rape victims are under 30. Very, very few are over 40, and one should look at the vast majority of cases when determining motivation for an activity in general. This is a highly misleading statement that is clearly made for ideological reasons. 3) "A federal commission on Crime of Violence Study found that 4.4% of all reported rapes involved provocative behavior on the part of the victim. In murder cases 22% involved such behavior": First of all, provocative behavior has little to do with whether rape is based primarily on sexual desire or on a power/control basis. Second of all....22% of murders have to do with provocative behavior? What?? I have to assume that they aren't only talking about sexually provocative behavior here. | ||
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Glaven
Canada554 Posts
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On April 05 2011 15:18 Aequos wrote: There is a post a few pages back by someone who works in a battered women's shelter. He argued that it was most often a power issue, and that is why most rapes happen between people already known to each other (ie. not complete strangers). Like I said above - there is no proof it's true, but evidence suggests it is, and it makes sense as an option. there is no proof it's true, but evidence suggests it is no proof but evidence suggests What? | ||
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Aequos
Canada606 Posts
On April 05 2011 15:44 The KY wrote: What? Sorry, that was badly phrased - what I meant to say is that common sense suggests it is. I'll go edit the previous post (haven't slept much, I know it's not an excuse, but hopefully it explains my poor wording). | ||
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trias_e
United States520 Posts
On April 05 2011 15:18 Aequos wrote: There is a post a few pages back by someone who works in a battered women's shelter. He argued that it was most often a power issue, and that is why most rapes happen between people already known to each other (ie. not complete strangers). I don't follow the logic here. Why is it the case that, since rape happens most often between people known to each other, they are about power and not about sex? | ||
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Aequos
Canada606 Posts
On April 05 2011 15:51 trias_e wrote: I don't follow the logic here. Why is it the case that, since rape happens most often between people known to each other, they are about power and not about sex? Although I don't know all of it myself, I'll try and explain to the best of my abilities. Because rape is most often preformed between people who know one another, it is most often about power due to the sexual release being available from essentially anyone. A person looking for sexual release, but who doesn't want to be caught, would probably choose a victim who has the smallest chance of identifying him (yes, I'm using the male stereotype, so what?). That would imply a random stranger, as most family members/friends are able to identify people they know. In the absolute WORST case scenario, it would imply that there would be close to an even distribution of rape between random strangers and known targets (as people are simply looking for release, and don't care if people know). However, because the vast majority of rape cases are between people who know each other, it implies that something else is at work here. Again, there is no proof that it's a power issue, but logic suggests (as well as some accounts from rapists) that it is a power issue. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On April 05 2011 15:45 Aequos wrote: Sorry, that was badly phrased - what I meant to say is that common sense suggests it is. I'll go edit the previous post (haven't slept much, I know it's not an excuse, but hopefully it explains my poor wording). Don't worry dude, I can relate. I thought since I have work at 9am and I went out drinking last night it'd be easier to just stay up all night rather than get only a few hours sleep then wake up with a hangover. + Show Spoiler + I WAS COMPLETELY FUCKING WRONG D: | ||
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Adeeler
United Kingdom764 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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askTeivospy
1525 Posts
i just replied back that the game is great, not the people ^>^ | ||
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Cyba
Romania221 Posts
As some other ppl said a person dressed like 25yo virgin coming back from church may not necesarily seem provocative in a sexual way, however they may get pleasure from depriving them of their innocence rather then the sex itself. If anything affects your chances of geting home safe it's the road you walk, the hour you're there and beeing alone. Since promiscuous women may be chilling at night at the street corner that makes them easy targets. Completely unrelated from the dresscode. Also a slut is far less likely to go to the police and form a complaint because they're probabily just going to thing a client may have gone a bit overboard and when you have sex with more then 1 person that day evidence might be hard to come by. TLDR - The way you dress is irelevant, however it can be indirectly related in the sense that ppl who dress this or that way may be EASIER targets rather then tempting targets. | ||
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CarlyZerg
United States113 Posts
I wish we lived in a world where women were free to do and dress as they pleased. I do what I can to contribute to that world. But in the world we currently have, the one where we really live every day, the simple fact of the matter is that the way a woman dresses influences the amount of respect she gets from random males in public settings, which in turn influences the chances she'll be sexually victimized. I find this unjust and repulsive, but it's the way it is. When my girlfriend goes to shady neighborhoods to tutor, I encourage her to wear a hoodie because I think it makes her less likely to be targeted. To all young people, I encourage you to do your part to change the world so that our children do not have to deal with such a travesty. But in the meantime I prefer to deal with the real world, not the ideal one, when thinking about the people I love. TLDR; It sucks, but the way a woman dresses does influence her chance of being targeted for sexual violence IMO. | ||
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Cyba
Romania221 Posts
the way a woman dresses influences the amount of respect she gets That goes for both men and women. Though having no respect for somebody will most certainly not affect rape probability. One of the reasons is a great deal of rapers feel insecure and small, raping a woman who qould seem out of their league is exactly what some would want. When my girlfriend goes to shady neighborhoods to tutor, I encourage her to wear a hoodie because I think it makes her less likely to be targeted. That's smart and in reality that's not gona change untill those people have a decent lifestyle, slums lead to criminality. But that's not different from men to women, if you're a skinny guy dressed to impress in there the chance that somebody will sap you on the back of the head and steal your wallet go sky high. Sadly from women they can steal more then just that. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
If anything affects your chances of geting home safe it's the road you walk, the hour you're there and beeing alone. Since promiscuous women may be chilling at night at the street corner that makes them easy targets. Completely unrelated from the dresscode. Also a slut is far less likely to go to the police and form a complaint because they're probabily just going to thing a client may have gone a bit overboard and when you have sex with more then 1 person that day evidence might be hard to come by. Promiscuous women get more attention from men because they seem more sexually available. The odds are thus lower that such a women would be going home alone, thus making her shielded from possible rapists because popular targets are lone women. Thus we must conclude that infact it is no promiscuous women but infact shy wallflowers that are more likely to be the target of rape. In reality i have no idea what i am talking about and whilst my conclusion can sound logical, it need not be true. It sounds logical that being in the cold gives you a cold, but the reality is that this isn't true. Women who dress revealing are still looked down upon like most women who flaunt their sexuality. Society deems that behaviour to be negative because the worshipped ideal is the pure and innocent girl next door. It's easy for people to project that dislike by suggesting that they are in a way responsible for their own fate. Wether it's true or not (and it's not) to even entertain the notion that a women holds any responsibility for becoming the victim is wrong. The only person who has done anything wrong is the rapist. No matter how you bring it, any other story is blaming the victim. How would you go about telling a rape victim that her clothes contributed to her ordeal? | ||
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naggerNZ
New Zealand708 Posts
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Cyba
Romania221 Posts
Thus we must conclude that infact it is no promiscuous women but infact shy wallflowers that are more likely to be the target of rape. More or less, since most assaults are preceeded by the bad guy luring them somehow. | ||
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PrincessLeila
France170 Posts
On April 05 2011 13:02 Genome852 wrote: I don't know why people who dress like sluts don't expect to be treated like one. What are you saying ? Sluts should expect to be raped ? troll ? stupidity ? ban plz. User was warned for this post | ||
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TibblesEvilCat
United Kingdom766 Posts
without proper proctection in both phyicall and metal it cannot be done. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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PrincessLeila
France170 Posts
On April 05 2011 06:09 Navane wrote: Even if dressing slutty had a causal relationship with getting raped, ppl still have the right to dress slutty and should be defended doing it. We all know free speech has a causal relationship with getting killed. Yet we still have the right to free speech and should be defended doing it. | ||
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Silmakuoppaanikinko
799 Posts
On April 05 2011 20:01 PrincessLeila wrote: I read it, and a lot of people by the way also say that you can expect to get killed if you say a lot of controversial shit. Not that you are at fault, but you could, not should, choose to manage your risk.Requoted for people who don't read the whole thread. | ||
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