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On April 05 2011 10:34 domane wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 09:34 PrincessLeila wrote:On April 05 2011 09:22 garlicface wrote:
My opinion is that women should take it upon themselves to dress appropriately, or at least exercise some safety unless they want to get raped. I don't mean to sound harsh, but let me use another example: don't expect to cross the road without getting hit by a car if you don't look both ways first.
Regardless, rape is rape, and the victim should not be held accountable. The accused should receive the full punishment and be held fully responsible for his actions. Edit2 : "at least exercise some safety unless they want to get raped" ?? Are you jocking ? Am i being trolled ? His "unless they want to get raped" comment was certainly insensitive. But in the process of going after his head, you've overlooked his prudence about exercising safety. Obviously, a measure such as carrying a pepper spray could be invaluable to women in protecting themselves from sexual assaults. Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 09:34 PrincessLeila wrote:
My opinion is that men should begin to support women against rape rather than tell them to dress properly. They already do so, whenever they see foreseeable dangers. It's not uncommon for women to ask men that they know well - boyfriends, partners, husbands, brothers, friends or relatives - to accompany them because they are worried about their safety. And men oblige. Often, men are the ones who insist on accompanying them.
I specifically stated that I didn't mean to sound harsh with that ultimatum of sorts, but I wanted to make it as black and white as possible. Obviously, there's a lot of grey area in this matter, which is why we're getting to such lengthly discussions.
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On April 05 2011 10:32 SwiftSpear wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 03:28 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:On April 05 2011 03:15 travis wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious that a horny guy is more likely to rape someone than a guy that isn't horny.
And I think it's also pretty obvious that dressing like a slut makes most guys horny. If this is that obvious? Then why has no one been able to produce even the slightest statistical evidence or indication for it? There is no statistical evidence for this, and indeed, far more evidence for the inverse case. I can't recall a study where rape victims were asked if they were dressed like a slut at the time of the incident. I'm not sure it would go over well. Could you propose an effective method? I'm not sure it's relevant to on the street rapes (like, just utterly random), but I think the way you dress probably has correlations to the kind of sexual attention you can expect at parties and clubs and what not. In some cases, that attention being attracted to you could result in deeper consequences. Not to imply that "sluts deserve it" or something, but purely from a safety standard the way you dress can effect the kind of attention you get. It would be extremely ignorant to claim otherwise.
Again and again...
1 of course, the way you dress effect the kind of attention you get, but it doesn't correlates to the number of rape victims... Rape victims are not all young pretty girls... Rape is more about control. Please read the whole thread. Sorry if it don't fit what you expected. But you will ignore it. Goes with your intuition, and your reasoning, it's probably closer to the truth.
2 Even if the way you dress effect the chances of getting raped, we should promote reporting rape and putting rapists in jail rather than promoting how to avoid rapes. If all rapes were reported, there would probably be a lot less. But some people in this thread focus on "dressing properly" rather than "fight against rapists" and "report rapes to police".
3 This "common sense" bullshit is something that prevent victims from reporting rapes...
I think i may have successfully been trolled for 2 hours.
All have been said... I wish i could stop responding... sigh...
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On April 05 2011 11:19 shinosai wrote:
Something interesting to note: While there is no proven correlation (that I know of) of the state of dress affecting the likelihood of rape, there is a distinct correlation in the court room of whether or not the rapist is convicted. Women who dress more provocatively are far less likely to have their rapist convicted. It probably would be in women's best interest to watch their state of dress in this case, but at the same time it seems apparent that the idea "she deserved it" if a girl dresses in a sexual way has spread throughout our culture quite widely.
Very interesting.
Could you give the source please ?
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1 of course, the way you dress effect the kind of attention you get, but it doesn't correlates to the number of rape victims... Rape victims are not all young pretty girls... Rape is more about control. Please read the whole thread. Sorry if it don't fit what you expected. But you will ignore it. Goes with your intuition, and your reasoning, it's probably closer to the truth.
What's your evidence of this claim that rape is mostly about control? If rape is more about power and control than sex, why isn't male on male rape more common? The percentage of older rape victims is very low as well. 80% of rape victims are under age 30, which again points to a different picture than one of rape as primarily power/control.
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On April 05 2011 11:39 PrincessLeila wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 11:19 shinosai wrote:
Something interesting to note: While there is no proven correlation (that I know of) of the state of dress affecting the likelihood of rape, there is a distinct correlation in the court room of whether or not the rapist is convicted. Women who dress more provocatively are far less likely to have their rapist convicted. It probably would be in women's best interest to watch their state of dress in this case, but at the same time it seems apparent that the idea "she deserved it" if a girl dresses in a sexual way has spread throughout our culture quite widely. Very interesting. Could you give the source please ?
http://books.google.com/books?id=qObabPbmEgIC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Begin reading at page 85 under "Myths, stereotypes, and definitions of rape." While this particular source does not specifically talk about the state of dress, I believe it implies it. At the very least, it argues that in the court room anything that might suggest that the woman deviated from her gender role as virtuous would result in doubt of the defendant's guilt.
"And in his study of actual rape trials, Lafree (1989) found that in cases where the major defense issue centered on whether a sexual act had occurred or been attempted or on whether the victim consented, the victim's life-style and her gender role behavior were more important even than measures of physical evidence and seriousness of the offense in determining jurors' evaluations. LaFree states that any evidence of a victim's drinking, drug use, sexual activity outside of marriage, or prior acquaintance with the defendant led jurors to doubt the defendant's guilt."
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Might be off topic, how how often do male get raped by female? Can't seems to find any stats about this.
How come I got a feeling that alot more males will be happy to get raped by females.
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On April 05 2011 11:56 furymonkey wrote:
Might be off topic, how how often do male get raped by female? Can't seems to find any stats about this.
How come I got a feeling that alot more males will be happy to get raped by females.
It would probably be difficult to find because most cases aren't taken very seriously. Men much moreso than women are extremely unlikely to report a rape. Also, males are not happy to be raped by females. The definition of rape excludes this possibility. If the sexual advance made the male happy, it seems to me that he would be consenting. If he's not consenting, why would he be happy?
I can't help but think that the reason you think men will be happy to get raped by females is that men like sex more than women do. So much that any type of sex would be welcomed, even rape. This is a myth. Women are more selective about sex, but they do enjoy it just as much as men if not more.
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On April 05 2011 06:36 Atticus.axl wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 03:49 AlexDeLarge wrote:
I believe the vast majority of police officers are total idiots, so arguing about a statement they made, whether right or wrong, is laughable.
But for the sake of argument, i'm gonna assume his statement "women shouldn't dress like such sluts and they complain about being raped" stems from his inner frustrations. His history of violence (natural from the profession he chose) coupled with his mediocre IQ and the fact that his primal animalistic brain takes priority over this intelligent side, leads me to believe he actually lusts deep down to "force his way" upon some hot, slutty girls he would normally never have acces to, being the lowly person that he is in society.
What do i think about this particular subject? While i don't approve of rape, some sluts simply have it coming for them sometimes. Let's not glorify women and say they are pure, innocent creatures who deserve only affection. I'm sure many of these girls, if they were put in a position of power and raw strength compared to men, they would abuse the hell out of us.
tl;dr skip to the story below
P.S. Funny story. One night i had some girl alone over my place. She ended up smoking a lot of weed and passed out almost completely (was maybe 10% conscious). I tried to make her feel comfortable, carried her to bed cuz she obviously wasn't feeling well, gave her a light massage etc.
But then i started getting a little bit horny. So i said, ahh what the hell. Fucked the shit out of her while she was 90% unconscious (this was basically our first date).
Now before you think i'm a despicable person, she did text me a few days later and said "had fun the other night. thanks for "raping" me :p". I later ended up in a relationship with her, rofl.
Would you guys consider what i did to her a criminal act of rape? Yes. You raped a woman who had no way of giving consent. Were you living in the state of California, and had I personally known you had done this, I would be obligated by law to report you to the police, and I would fully support them in a court to put you behind bars for a very long time. I had a girlfriend once that smoked a lot of pot when she was younger, and had this exact rape inflicted upon her. Whenever a movie advertisement, show, or situation (like reading a post like this) reminded her of that abuse, I sat up with her late into the night as she cried herself to exhaustion. She was the strongest personally I had ever met. This also raises an interesting situation, if you had reported him when she clearly didn't mind, what would that accomplish? Who's the victim in this scenario, who's helped by getting that guy behind bars?
I dunno man, people quite often seem to live in the mentality 'I mind, so you should mind as well, else you're not protecting yourself.', clearly the woman liked it, there isn't any harm done.
Also, one to some extend senses and knows these things, that people aren't going to mind that. I sometimes give strangers hugs out of nowhere to which they react pleased. You simply recognise a person that likes it when you see it.
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On April 05 2011 12:12 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 11:56 furymonkey wrote:
Might be off topic, how how often do male get raped by female? Can't seems to find any stats about this.
How come I got a feeling that alot more males will be happy to get raped by females. It would probably be difficult to find because most cases aren't taken very seriously. Men much moreso than women are extremely unlikely to report a rape. Also, males are not happy to be raped by females. The definition of rape excludes this possibility. If the sexual advance made the male happy, it seems to me that he would be consenting. If he's not consenting, why would he be happy? I can't help but think that the reason you think men will be happy to get raped by females is that men like sex more than women do. So much that any type of sex would be welcomed, even rape. This is a myth. Women are more selective about sex, but they do enjoy it just as much as men if not more.
So where did you find the statistics to back up these claims? How do you know men are extremely unlikely to report a rape? How do you distinguish a man not reporting a rape from the rape having never occurred in the first place?
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On April 05 2011 12:18 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 06:36 Atticus.axl wrote:On April 05 2011 03:49 AlexDeLarge wrote:
I believe the vast majority of police officers are total idiots, so arguing about a statement they made, whether right or wrong, is laughable.
But for the sake of argument, i'm gonna assume his statement "women shouldn't dress like such sluts and they complain about being raped" stems from his inner frustrations. His history of violence (natural from the profession he chose) coupled with his mediocre IQ and the fact that his primal animalistic brain takes priority over this intelligent side, leads me to believe he actually lusts deep down to "force his way" upon some hot, slutty girls he would normally never have acces to, being the lowly person that he is in society.
What do i think about this particular subject? While i don't approve of rape, some sluts simply have it coming for them sometimes. Let's not glorify women and say they are pure, innocent creatures who deserve only affection. I'm sure many of these girls, if they were put in a position of power and raw strength compared to men, they would abuse the hell out of us.
tl;dr skip to the story below
P.S. Funny story. One night i had some girl alone over my place. She ended up smoking a lot of weed and passed out almost completely (was maybe 10% conscious). I tried to make her feel comfortable, carried her to bed cuz she obviously wasn't feeling well, gave her a light massage etc.
But then i started getting a little bit horny. So i said, ahh what the hell. Fucked the shit out of her while she was 90% unconscious (this was basically our first date).
Now before you think i'm a despicable person, she did text me a few days later and said "had fun the other night. thanks for "raping" me :p". I later ended up in a relationship with her, rofl.
Would you guys consider what i did to her a criminal act of rape? Yes. You raped a woman who had no way of giving consent. Were you living in the state of California, and had I personally known you had done this, I would be obligated by law to report you to the police, and I would fully support them in a court to put you behind bars for a very long time. I had a girlfriend once that smoked a lot of pot when she was younger, and had this exact rape inflicted upon her. Whenever a movie advertisement, show, or situation (like reading a post like this) reminded her of that abuse, I sat up with her late into the night as she cried herself to exhaustion. She was the strongest personally I had ever met. This also raises an interesting situation, if you had reported him when she clearly didn't mind, what would that accomplish? Who's the victim in this scenario, who's helped by getting that guy behind bars? I dunno man, people quite often seem to live in the mentality 'I mind, so you should mind as well, else you're not protecting yourself.', clearly the woman liked it, there isn't any harm done. Also, one to some extend senses and knows these things, that people aren't going to mind that. I sometimes give strangers hugs out of nowhere to which they react pleased. You simply recognise a person that likes it when you see it.
I believe you're engaging in a logical fallacy here. You are letting the end justify the means. Just because she happened to like it is completely irrelevant. She also could have not liked it. Who cares? The fact is that he engaged in rape, and while the girl might not be a victim in the sense that she didn't mind, what would you say about some girl in the future that he might do this to?
Let's say I murder someone because they pissed me off. This person is to the best of my knowledge a perfectly normal, innocent person. After the fact, I find out that the person I killed was a serial killer. Are my actions suddenly justified, just because I found out after the fact that the person was a serial killer?
Or even better: Imagine that I murder someone because they pissed me off, and I find out after the fact that they had a terminal illness that would have killed them the next day anyways. Is the murder okay, now?
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On April 05 2011 12:24 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 12:12 shinosai wrote:On April 05 2011 11:56 furymonkey wrote:
Might be off topic, how how often do male get raped by female? Can't seems to find any stats about this.
How come I got a feeling that alot more males will be happy to get raped by females. It would probably be difficult to find because most cases aren't taken very seriously. Men much moreso than women are extremely unlikely to report a rape. Also, males are not happy to be raped by females. The definition of rape excludes this possibility. If the sexual advance made the male happy, it seems to me that he would be consenting. If he's not consenting, why would he be happy? I can't help but think that the reason you think men will be happy to get raped by females is that men like sex more than women do. So much that any type of sex would be welcomed, even rape. This is a myth. Women are more selective about sex, but they do enjoy it just as much as men if not more. So where did you find the statistics to back up these claims? How do you know men are extremely unlikely to report a rape? How do you distinguish a man not reporting a rape from the rape having never occurred in the first place?
The same way you distinguish a woman not reporting a rape from the rape having never occurred in the first place. Generally it comes out long after anything can be done about it, or from anonymous surveys. Anyways, simply googling "male rape victim statistics" can give you this information, but an even faster route is to go to wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics
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^nah man it's more like the murder victim was planning to suicide the next day anyway. But it's still not a great analogy.
If the girl doesn't press charges, i don't think it would be a case, unless it's statutory rape or another case where the state is obligated to represent the victim
edit: however, I believe it's still morally wrong and if the girl had not liked it (which I would assume to be normal) then you (alexdelarge) would have been in deep legal shit as well. But to be honest that story seems quite difficult to believe, mostly because of the cavalier style of telling.
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No analogy is ever good unless it's the exact same situation in which case it's no longer an analogy. That being said, the point is that the guy had no idea what the outcome was. So, the moral nature of his action cannot be determined after the fact. We have an obligation to judge him for his actions based on what he knew at the time.
If it were any other way we would be able to say the most heinous of crimes were okay if the result ended up being a morally favorable one.
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On April 05 2011 03:49 AlexDeLarge wrote:
I believe the vast majority of police officers are total idiots, so arguing about a statement they made, whether right or wrong, is laughable.
But for the sake of argument, i'm gonna assume his statement "women shouldn't dress like such sluts and they complain about being raped" stems from his inner frustrations. His history of violence (natural from the profession he chose) coupled with his mediocre IQ and the fact that his primal animalistic brain takes priority over this intelligent side, leads me to believe he actually lusts deep down to "force his way" upon some hot, slutty girls he would normally never have acces to, being the lowly person that he is in society.
What do i think about this particular subject? While i don't approve of rape, some sluts simply have it coming for them sometimes. Let's not glorify women and say they are pure, innocent creatures who deserve only affection. I'm sure many of these girls, if they were put in a position of power and raw strength compared to men, they would abuse the hell out of us.
tl;dr skip to the story below
P.S. Funny story. One night i had some girl alone over my place. She ended up smoking a lot of weed and passed out almost completely (was maybe 10% conscious). I tried to make her feel comfortable, carried her to bed cuz she obviously wasn't feeling well, gave her a light massage etc.
But then i started getting a little bit horny. So i said, ahh what the hell. Fucked the shit out of her while she was 90% unconscious (this was basically our first date).
Now before you think i'm a despicable person, she did text me a few days later and said "had fun the other night. thanks for "raping" me :p". I later ended up in a relationship with her, rofl.
Would you guys consider what i did to her a criminal act of rape?
LOL. Yeah technically you committed the criminal act of rape. From our point of view it's totally different from shoving a stranger against an alleyway and raping her. But in the eyes of the court, both are rape. And you'd be in deep shit if that girl wasn't cool.
So yeah, you're a funny guy, but sadly also a despicable one. Yeah sure she turned out to be a slut, but you didn't know that until after she sobered up
User was temp banned for this post.
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I don't know why people who dress like sluts don't expect to be treated like one.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On April 05 2011 12:28 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 12:18 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:On April 05 2011 06:36 Atticus.axl wrote:On April 05 2011 03:49 AlexDeLarge wrote:
I believe the vast majority of police officers are total idiots, so arguing about a statement they made, whether right or wrong, is laughable.
But for the sake of argument, i'm gonna assume his statement "women shouldn't dress like such sluts and they complain about being raped" stems from his inner frustrations. His history of violence (natural from the profession he chose) coupled with his mediocre IQ and the fact that his primal animalistic brain takes priority over this intelligent side, leads me to believe he actually lusts deep down to "force his way" upon some hot, slutty girls he would normally never have acces to, being the lowly person that he is in society.
What do i think about this particular subject? While i don't approve of rape, some sluts simply have it coming for them sometimes. Let's not glorify women and say they are pure, innocent creatures who deserve only affection. I'm sure many of these girls, if they were put in a position of power and raw strength compared to men, they would abuse the hell out of us.
tl;dr skip to the story below
P.S. Funny story. One night i had some girl alone over my place. She ended up smoking a lot of weed and passed out almost completely (was maybe 10% conscious). I tried to make her feel comfortable, carried her to bed cuz she obviously wasn't feeling well, gave her a light massage etc.
But then i started getting a little bit horny. So i said, ahh what the hell. Fucked the shit out of her while she was 90% unconscious (this was basically our first date).
Now before you think i'm a despicable person, she did text me a few days later and said "had fun the other night. thanks for "raping" me :p". I later ended up in a relationship with her, rofl.
Would you guys consider what i did to her a criminal act of rape? Yes. You raped a woman who had no way of giving consent. Were you living in the state of California, and had I personally known you had done this, I would be obligated by law to report you to the police, and I would fully support them in a court to put you behind bars for a very long time. I had a girlfriend once that smoked a lot of pot when she was younger, and had this exact rape inflicted upon her. Whenever a movie advertisement, show, or situation (like reading a post like this) reminded her of that abuse, I sat up with her late into the night as she cried herself to exhaustion. She was the strongest personally I had ever met. This also raises an interesting situation, if you had reported him when she clearly didn't mind, what would that accomplish? Who's the victim in this scenario, who's helped by getting that guy behind bars? I dunno man, people quite often seem to live in the mentality 'I mind, so you should mind as well, else you're not protecting yourself.', clearly the woman liked it, there isn't any harm done. Also, one to some extend senses and knows these things, that people aren't going to mind that. I sometimes give strangers hugs out of nowhere to which they react pleased. You simply recognise a person that likes it when you see it. I believe you're engaging in a logical fallacy here. You are letting the end justify the means. Just because she happened to like it is completely irrelevant. She also could have not liked it. Who cares? The fact is that he engaged in rape, and while the girl might not be a victim in the sense that she didn't mind, what would you say about some girl in the future that he might do this to? Let's say I murder someone because they pissed me off. This person is to the best of my knowledge a perfectly normal, innocent person. After the fact, I find out that the person I killed was a serial killer. Are my actions suddenly justified, just because I found out after the fact that the person was a serial killer? Or even better: Imagine that I murder someone because they pissed me off, and I find out after the fact that they had a terminal illness that would have killed them the next day anyways. Is the murder okay, now? I'm not talking about 'okay', I'm asking what the punishment would accomplish in an utilitarian sense.
The girl obtains no satisfaction from his punishment, far worse, her boyfriend goes to jail.
And like I said, one perceives these things to some extend, it could be that he wouldn't have proceeded if he didn't perceive in some way that the girl would like it.
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On April 05 2011 08:27 PrincessLeila wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 06:36 Atticus.axl wrote:Here goes. I worked for a domestic violence shelter as an intake counselor, working directly with clients which are, quite often, victims of rape. I also worked at a women's center, providing legal services and referrals to the LGBTQ population, as well as victims of rape. Often, I would be the first person to approached by the victims for help or advice, with several occasions I can recall where the crime occurred the same day. As a result of this work, I had to know the official statistics that reached beyond the limited population I served. First, I'm happy to see the number of people in this thread that understand how victim blaming in any way (in cases of rape) not only enables rapists, but romanticizes the notion, in however small an extent, that rape is defensible or excusable in ANY way. Also, what I say here applies to male victims as well, as rape is not an issue limited by gender or sexuality, and I have had a large number of male clients. Second, I'm going to start addressing issues and posts in this thread. Obviously I can't get them all. If there is one you would like me to answer, please ask. On April 05 2011 04:36 checo wrote:
I think this data you guys are providing are kinda missleading. Some of you say dressing doesn't matter at all because most of the rapes hapend in the house of the victim or in the house of the criminal(a trust must been there for someone to enter or let enter in their home)
But thats only the data you get from the reported rapes that are way less than what is really hapening out there, yea its all especulation, but then again how do they decide if the victim was or not dress in a revealing way? It's not speculation. The only thing underreported is the number of rapes. "Causes," or false justifications for rape, remain consistent across cases that go immediately reported and cases that don't. As stated before (statistics are available earlier in the thread), the vast majority of rapes occur in the home, and the assailant is either a friend or family member. In all my time at both the shelter and the women's center, I have had only two cases (I've had many more cases than two) where women were raped by someone they just met. Only one where a woman was raped in public at night, and even then, it was a roommate that knew where she was going. On April 05 2011 04:35 meeyoop wrote:On April 05 2011 04:25 Torte de Lini wrote:On April 05 2011 04:23 Kamais_Ookin wrote:
In the article: "Just like sexual assault is not about appearance."
That made me lol, I'm 100% sure appearance has some relevance to it. No one is going to sexually assault a 400 pound gorilla of a women as opposed to someone more attractive. Anyways I agree with the officer, I'm not saying that it's the sole reason for rape because it isn't but, stop dressing like damn sluts, it doesn't help matters at all. That's a misconception, women are often raped based on their status, their relationship with the rapist and their position socially and/or in the workplace. It's almost never about looks and the incite such an idea is actually perpetuating the "blaming the victim" card. Often times, men who rape are attracted and aroused by the idea of submission, control and domination of the woman and not by her attire, looks or weight. They get even more excited when they resist or even eventually submit. Blaming the victim is enabling rapists. This is similar to allowing police officers to entice crimes from citizens. EVERYONE LISTEN TO THIS GUY. You have hit the nail on the head here, Torte. Whatever a rape survivor is wearing at the time has fuck all to do with the rapist's actions. To suggest otherwise is to blame the victim. Please put the focus on ending the kind of thinking that makes rapists think that they are allowed to victimize others, and not on the victims who did NOTHING AT ALL to provoke an attack. JFC, guys, this is the reason why so many rapes go unreported. Even the people who are supposed to be supporting victims the most are going to say things like "Well, what were you wearing?"  Exactly this. When the issue of clothing is brought up, I bring up this case. The school of thought that this officer, judge, and millions of people around the world adhere to allows cases like this to be judged in this way. On April 05 2011 04:09 travis wrote:wow im not gonna bother anymore, some things are just common fucking sense. why do you even think guys rape women in the first place. On April 05 2011 03:58 Torte de Lini wrote:On April 05 2011 03:56 Gene wrote:On April 05 2011 03:55 Mastermind wrote:On April 05 2011 03:43 Zorkmid wrote:On April 05 2011 03:15 travis wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious that a horny guy is more likely to rape someone than a guy that isn't horny.
And I think it's also pretty obvious that dressing like a slut makes most guys horny. I don't really agree with either of these statements. 1. I can't see how any level of horniness could bring on rape. 2. A girl that dresses like a slut may get more attention, but that's about all. 1. What other reason would someone rape for? power Bingo, it's a question of power, and not sexual restraint. riiight. it might be, sometimes, but ... jesus, uthink that even accounts for the majority of rapes? wtf? Travis, throughout this thread you have been 100% dead wrong. It does, as plainly as I may state it, account for the vast majority of rapes. Also, cases where women are raped by friends or family members (which again, accounts for the vast majority of rapes,) revolve entirely around exerting power and control over someone that cannot successfully fight back. Rape has always been motivated by power and control, which are both synonymous with forced gratification. Your stance here is erroneous because it avoids the fact that regardless of circumstances, the assailant, male or female, is entirely to blame. Blaming the clothes is blaming the victim, and excuses the criminal. Furthermore, consent is not situational. A man or a woman does not even need to say no. If no consent is given, and intercourse occurs anyway, it's rape. Which brings me to this poster. On April 05 2011 03:49 AlexDeLarge wrote:
I believe the vast majority of police officers are total idiots, so arguing about a statement they made, whether right or wrong, is laughable.
But for the sake of argument, i'm gonna assume his statement "women shouldn't dress like such sluts and they complain about being raped" stems from his inner frustrations. His history of violence (natural from the profession he chose) coupled with his mediocre IQ and the fact that his primal animalistic brain takes priority over this intelligent side, leads me to believe he actually lusts deep down to "force his way" upon some hot, slutty girls he would normally never have acces to, being the lowly person that he is in society.
What do i think about this particular subject? While i don't approve of rape, some sluts simply have it coming for them sometimes. Let's not glorify women and say they are pure, innocent creatures who deserve only affection. I'm sure many of these girls, if they were put in a position of power and raw strength compared to men, they would abuse the hell out of us.
tl;dr skip to the story below
P.S. Funny story. One night i had some girl alone over my place. She ended up smoking a lot of weed and passed out almost completely (was maybe 10% conscious). I tried to make her feel comfortable, carried her to bed cuz she obviously wasn't feeling well, gave her a light massage etc.
But then i started getting a little bit horny. So i said, ahh what the hell. Fucked the shit out of her while she was 90% unconscious (this was basically our first date).
Now before you think i'm a despicable person, she did text me a few days later and said "had fun the other night. thanks for "raping" me :p". I later ended up in a relationship with her, rofl.
Would you guys consider what i did to her a criminal act of rape? Yes. You raped a woman who had no way of giving consent. Were you living in the state of California, and had I personally known you had done this, I would be obligated by law to report you to the police, and I would fully support them in a court to put you behind bars for a very long time. I had a girlfriend once that smoked a lot of pot when she was younger, and had this exact rape inflicted upon her. Whenever a movie advertisement, show, or situation (like reading a post like this) reminded her of that abuse, I sat up with her late into the night as she cried herself to exhaustion. She was the strongest personally I had ever met. This forum is not an appropriate platform for me to really say what I think of people like you. It's not a gray area. It's not ok because she dated you after. It's disgusting and horrible. To other posters, please feel free to ask questions if you have them. Thanks for educating me. So many people still have to learn the basic human rights and forget their "common-sense"... If nobody implies that dresses justify the rape, why are we talking about how victims are dressed ? It sounds like hypocrisy... I'm tired of reading "Yes it's not the victim fault at all, blah blah blah, *but* if she didn't blah blah blah... increase risks blah blah blah" Sorry, one can't say : "100% not the victim fault , but...". The word "but" means one don't agree 100%. Like someone said "Even if dressing slutty had a causal relationship with getting raped, ppl still have the right to dress slutty and should be defended doing it." Come on, it's basic freedom. How can some people suggest that victims should not have dressed "slutty"... Everything is in the "should not". Speaking generally, everyone have the freedom to make mistakes and take dumb risks if it's not against the law... Once a crime happened, *why* the victim has been involved is irrelevant. What is relevant is *what* happened and what the law says about it.
I think when investigating a crime, everything should be relevant. "Why" the victim was involved is actually very important, and should be made known in the courtroom. Obvious example is a guy committing murder in self-defense. Everything has to be taken into account in order to determine whether one's actions were justified or incriminate.
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On April 05 2011 13:05 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 12:28 shinosai wrote:On April 05 2011 12:18 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:On April 05 2011 06:36 Atticus.axl wrote:On April 05 2011 03:49 AlexDeLarge wrote:
I believe the vast majority of police officers are total idiots, so arguing about a statement they made, whether right or wrong, is laughable.
But for the sake of argument, i'm gonna assume his statement "women shouldn't dress like such sluts and they complain about being raped" stems from his inner frustrations. His history of violence (natural from the profession he chose) coupled with his mediocre IQ and the fact that his primal animalistic brain takes priority over this intelligent side, leads me to believe he actually lusts deep down to "force his way" upon some hot, slutty girls he would normally never have acces to, being the lowly person that he is in society.
What do i think about this particular subject? While i don't approve of rape, some sluts simply have it coming for them sometimes. Let's not glorify women and say they are pure, innocent creatures who deserve only affection. I'm sure many of these girls, if they were put in a position of power and raw strength compared to men, they would abuse the hell out of us.
tl;dr skip to the story below
P.S. Funny story. One night i had some girl alone over my place. She ended up smoking a lot of weed and passed out almost completely (was maybe 10% conscious). I tried to make her feel comfortable, carried her to bed cuz she obviously wasn't feeling well, gave her a light massage etc.
But then i started getting a little bit horny. So i said, ahh what the hell. Fucked the shit out of her while she was 90% unconscious (this was basically our first date).
Now before you think i'm a despicable person, she did text me a few days later and said "had fun the other night. thanks for "raping" me :p". I later ended up in a relationship with her, rofl.
Would you guys consider what i did to her a criminal act of rape? Yes. You raped a woman who had no way of giving consent. Were you living in the state of California, and had I personally known you had done this, I would be obligated by law to report you to the police, and I would fully support them in a court to put you behind bars for a very long time. I had a girlfriend once that smoked a lot of pot when she was younger, and had this exact rape inflicted upon her. Whenever a movie advertisement, show, or situation (like reading a post like this) reminded her of that abuse, I sat up with her late into the night as she cried herself to exhaustion. She was the strongest personally I had ever met. This also raises an interesting situation, if you had reported him when she clearly didn't mind, what would that accomplish? Who's the victim in this scenario, who's helped by getting that guy behind bars? I dunno man, people quite often seem to live in the mentality 'I mind, so you should mind as well, else you're not protecting yourself.', clearly the woman liked it, there isn't any harm done. Also, one to some extend senses and knows these things, that people aren't going to mind that. I sometimes give strangers hugs out of nowhere to which they react pleased. You simply recognise a person that likes it when you see it. I believe you're engaging in a logical fallacy here. You are letting the end justify the means. Just because she happened to like it is completely irrelevant. She also could have not liked it. Who cares? The fact is that he engaged in rape, and while the girl might not be a victim in the sense that she didn't mind, what would you say about some girl in the future that he might do this to? Let's say I murder someone because they pissed me off. This person is to the best of my knowledge a perfectly normal, innocent person. After the fact, I find out that the person I killed was a serial killer. Are my actions suddenly justified, just because I found out after the fact that the person was a serial killer? Or even better: Imagine that I murder someone because they pissed me off, and I find out after the fact that they had a terminal illness that would have killed them the next day anyways. Is the murder okay, now? I'm not talking about 'okay', I'm asking what the punishment would accomplish in an utilitarian sense. The girl obtains no satisfaction from his punishment, far worse, her boyfriend goes to jail. And like I said, one perceives these things to some extend, it could be that he wouldn't have proceeded if he didn't perceive in some way that the girl would like it.
In the utilitarian sense it would stop him from raping other women in the future. And you're full of shit if you think you can "perceive" if a girl would like to fuck while she's 90% unconscious on your first date.
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On April 05 2011 13:05 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 12:28 shinosai wrote:On April 05 2011 12:18 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:On April 05 2011 06:36 Atticus.axl wrote:On April 05 2011 03:49 AlexDeLarge wrote:
I believe the vast majority of police officers are total idiots, so arguing about a statement they made, whether right or wrong, is laughable.
But for the sake of argument, i'm gonna assume his statement "women shouldn't dress like such sluts and they complain about being raped" stems from his inner frustrations. His history of violence (natural from the profession he chose) coupled with his mediocre IQ and the fact that his primal animalistic brain takes priority over this intelligent side, leads me to believe he actually lusts deep down to "force his way" upon some hot, slutty girls he would normally never have acces to, being the lowly person that he is in society.
What do i think about this particular subject? While i don't approve of rape, some sluts simply have it coming for them sometimes. Let's not glorify women and say they are pure, innocent creatures who deserve only affection. I'm sure many of these girls, if they were put in a position of power and raw strength compared to men, they would abuse the hell out of us.
tl;dr skip to the story below
P.S. Funny story. One night i had some girl alone over my place. She ended up smoking a lot of weed and passed out almost completely (was maybe 10% conscious). I tried to make her feel comfortable, carried her to bed cuz she obviously wasn't feeling well, gave her a light massage etc.
But then i started getting a little bit horny. So i said, ahh what the hell. Fucked the shit out of her while she was 90% unconscious (this was basically our first date).
Now before you think i'm a despicable person, she did text me a few days later and said "had fun the other night. thanks for "raping" me :p". I later ended up in a relationship with her, rofl.
Would you guys consider what i did to her a criminal act of rape? Yes. You raped a woman who had no way of giving consent. Were you living in the state of California, and had I personally known you had done this, I would be obligated by law to report you to the police, and I would fully support them in a court to put you behind bars for a very long time. I had a girlfriend once that smoked a lot of pot when she was younger, and had this exact rape inflicted upon her. Whenever a movie advertisement, show, or situation (like reading a post like this) reminded her of that abuse, I sat up with her late into the night as she cried herself to exhaustion. She was the strongest personally I had ever met. This also raises an interesting situation, if you had reported him when she clearly didn't mind, what would that accomplish? Who's the victim in this scenario, who's helped by getting that guy behind bars? I dunno man, people quite often seem to live in the mentality 'I mind, so you should mind as well, else you're not protecting yourself.', clearly the woman liked it, there isn't any harm done. Also, one to some extend senses and knows these things, that people aren't going to mind that. I sometimes give strangers hugs out of nowhere to which they react pleased. You simply recognise a person that likes it when you see it. I believe you're engaging in a logical fallacy here. You are letting the end justify the means. Just because she happened to like it is completely irrelevant. She also could have not liked it. Who cares? The fact is that he engaged in rape, and while the girl might not be a victim in the sense that she didn't mind, what would you say about some girl in the future that he might do this to? Let's say I murder someone because they pissed me off. This person is to the best of my knowledge a perfectly normal, innocent person. After the fact, I find out that the person I killed was a serial killer. Are my actions suddenly justified, just because I found out after the fact that the person was a serial killer? Or even better: Imagine that I murder someone because they pissed me off, and I find out after the fact that they had a terminal illness that would have killed them the next day anyways. Is the murder okay, now? I'm not talking about 'okay', I'm asking what the punishment would accomplish in an utilitarian sense. The girl obtains no satisfaction from his punishment, far worse, her boyfriend goes to jail. And like I said, one perceives these things to some extend, it could be that he wouldn't have proceeded if he didn't perceive in some way that the girl would like it.
He didn't perceive shit. Didn't you read what he wrote "I felt kind of horny, so I said ah what the hell... I fucked the shit out of her".
In a utilitarian sense, putting that guy behind bars would be protecting future victims. Yeah, sounds iffy and I would never wish for a TL user to go to jail for something that "could happen". But I also would never wish for some nice girl to get raped because he thought she'd be alright with it.
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On April 05 2011 03:15 travis wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious that a horny guy is more likely to rape someone than a guy that isn't horny.
And I think it's also pretty obvious that dressing like a slut makes most guys horny.
Thats a strong statemate i disagree with Rape is about control not arousal they get off on control they dont feel it otherwise
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EPT
