Iraq & Syrian Civil Wars - Page 23

On July 20 2012 19:11 zalz wrote:


The current Syrian regime is an ally to Iran.

The middle-east is split between three real powers:

Iran - Shia Islam

Saudi-Arabi - Sunni Islam (and its own personal Wahabi strain, but it masquerades as Sunni)

Israel - Western/Jewish


These three powers bump into one another, with each hating the other two. The struggle between Iran and Saudi is, in the minds of the people engaged in it, a struggle for the soul of Islam.

Syria was one of Iran's few really reliable allies in the region, so of course they want to keep them there.

Syria is also, I believe, the only army base that Russia has in the region. If they loose that, their influence over the entire region isn't just destroyed from a practical sense (in losing their last base) but also by showing any potential allies that Russia will leave out to hang when the going gets tough.

China, on the other hand, is mostly in it for Iranian favor.


Iran and China are very compatible countries.

Iran has been isolated a great deal, but with acces to the Chinese market they can maintain economic growth. China on the other hand needs more reliable sources for oil, of which Iran is the most obvious.

On a deeper level the two nations share a similar cultural legacy. Both have a long and rich history as empires. Both feel cheated from that position by Western influences, and both (arguably China more) are on the rise.

Finally, and this is getting really nitty-gritty, the Chinese governments really hates the rise of Islam within its own borders. Saudi-Arabia is very active in spreading their Wahabism, bankrolling the construction of mosques and paying for books that "properly" explain how the Quran should be read (hint: their way).

Iran, and by extension Shia Islam, is much less about being projected. China would greatly preffer an Iranian dominated middle-east, because they feel that Iran is much more respectfull of their sovereignty, something which isn't just paramount for the Chinese government, but also for the Chinese people themselves who feel very strongly about their cultural identity.


So, Russia plays ball because they are in bed with Syria. China mostly supports them because they want to win favor with Iran.

On July 20 2012 17:57 zalz wrote:


I have my own home. I have healthcare. I have a subsidized education.

Now, if the Dutch government were to come to my house and drag me out of my door and hang me from the nearest lamp post for posting that I disagree with the Dutch government, would you applaud that?

The government pays for a lot of those things, so, by your own admission, wouldn't this mean they have ownership over my life?

Gaddaffi, in all his mercy, was widely known to have assassination squads roaming the western world, targetting Libyan refugees, especially those of any fame.

The fact is, if you were born a Libyan you would be property of the state from birth to death. You couldn't even flee. The government would hunt you down. Never in your entire existence would you ever be truly able to speak your mind, to think freely. Property of the state forever.

And for what? Healthcare? Education? Housing? Is the price for your mind that low? Is a human life really that cheap to you?

We are talking about a man that would have dissidents publicly hung, after which he would redirect traffic so people would pass by the corpse and be reminded of who was in charge.

But he paid for your education so you could be highly-educated and unemployed in the glorious economy of Libya. Ooh, yeah, you forgot to mention the fact that Libya also had the highest unemployment in the region. But don't worry, Gaddaffi and the oil that wasn't even his would pay for it, and all he would demand was your life and freedom.



Well, it really isn't.

The people have voted for a relatively liberal government, which speaks volumes for the future. In August they are expected to placed in power, and until then the transitional council is overseeing everything.

It isn't paradise, but it is a lot better than under Gaddaffi, who's insanity goes by most people, only because they don't bother to look at how crazy he really was.

On July 7, 2012, the National Transitional Council, in power since the Libyan civil war, supervised democratic elections for a 200 member General National Congress to replace the Council.[1] The assembly will choose a prime minister and organize parliamentary elections in 2013.[1] A process to write a constitution will also be determined.[1]

On July 21 2012 02:17 Bahamut1337 wrote:
Stupid rant and you missed the points the quality of live and human rights have gone worse since khadaffi is gone. Not to mention Libya has no goverment so stop pretending they had elections.....

So once more stop saying rubbish things Libya HAD NO ELECTIONS....you have no clue what you talk about.

Some 1.7 million Libyans voted in Libya on Saturday out of a potential total of 2.8 million according to the head of the High National Election Commission, Nuri Elabbar. Speaking at a press conference this afternoon in Tripoli, he said the election had been “a great success” and that voters had shown “a great degree of responsibility”.

On July 21 2012 02:17 Bahamut1337 wrote:


Stupid rant and you missed the points the quality of live and human rights have gone worse since khadaffi is gone. Not to mention Libya has no goverment so stop pretending they had elections.....

So once more stop saying rubbish things Libya HAD NO ELECTIONS....you have no clue what you talk about.

On July 21 2012 03:59 zalz wrote:


What the hell? Are you being serious right now? Read this:

http://www.libyaherald.com/election-1-7-million-libyans-voted-polling-continues-in-8-centres-today/



I'm trying to understand you, but you seem almost erratic.

I have no idea what I am talking about...because I said there were elections whilst there weren't...but there were elections...

I know you conspiracy people can make up some crazy stuff, but are you seriously denying even the most basic relations to reality?

Did you just not do your homework? Or are you seriously denying the election that involved 1.7 million people? I can't believe this...

On July 21 2012 03:45 Gaga wrote:
I am not supporting gaddafi here who was a crazy dictator without question... but thats true for some of the oilrich gulfcountries too. bahrain anyone ? they sell their oil for doller though .... which makes all the difference. Guess in which currency(s) Iran (wants to) sells their oil ... saddam made the same mistake.

On July 22 2012 00:22 zatic wrote:

You should really stop posting in political threads about topics you evidently have no idea about. Bahrain has virtually no oil and is completely dependent on energy imports from Saudi.

On July 20 2012 19:11 zalz wrote:


The current Syrian regime is an ally to Iran.

The middle-east is split between three real powers:

Iran - Shia Islam

Saudi-Arabi - Sunni Islam (and its own personal Wahabi strain, but it masquerades as Sunni)

Israel - Western/Jewish


These three powers bump into one another, with each hating the other two. The struggle between Iran and Saudi is, in the minds of the people engaged in it, a struggle for the soul of Islam.

Syria was one of Iran's few really reliable allies in the region, so of course they want to keep them there.

Syria is also, I believe, the only army base that Russia has in the region. If they loose that, their influence over the entire region isn't just destroyed from a practical sense (in losing their last base) but also by showing any potential allies that Russia will leave out to hang when the going gets tough.

China, on the other hand, is mostly in it for Iranian favor.


Iran and China are very compatible countries.

Iran has been isolated a great deal, but with acces to the Chinese market they can maintain economic growth. China on the other hand needs more reliable sources for oil, of which Iran is the most obvious.

On a deeper level the two nations share a similar cultural legacy. Both have a long and rich history as empires. Both feel cheated from that position by Western influences, and both (arguably China more) are on the rise.

Finally, and this is getting really nitty-gritty, the Chinese governments really hates the rise of Islam within its own borders. Saudi-Arabia is very active in spreading their Wahabism, bankrolling the construction of mosques and paying for books that "properly" explain how the Quran should be read (hint: their way).

Iran, and by extension Shia Islam, is much less about being projected. China would greatly preffer an Iranian dominated middle-east, because they feel that Iran is much more respectfull of their sovereignty, something which isn't just paramount for the Chinese government, but also for the Chinese people themselves who feel very strongly about their cultural identity.


So, Russia plays ball because they are in bed with Syria. China mostly supports them because they want to win favor with Iran.

On July 21 2012 23:57 Bahamut1337 wrote:


Its just till they get new elections next year. Not to mention half the nation is ran by militia but sure.

what conspiracy people? laughed again ^^

On July 22 2012 02:56 BongSniper69 wrote:

Saudi Arabia and the West "hate" each other? America and the Saudis are very interwined, read "Sleeping with the Devil" by Robert Baer

Syrian government forces have launched a ground assault in the city of Aleppo, and are bombarding rebel-held areas with heavy artillery, activists and witnesses have said.

Battered and burnt-out tanks littered one of the main roads into the commercial capital, according to activists, who said the move marked the beginning of the expected government assault on the city.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR), a UK-based rights group, said the army poured troops into the southwest of the city on Saturday, and that at least 22 people had died in Aleppo province during Saturday's violence.

Syrian army troops "have moved on the Salaheddine district, where the largest number of rebel fighters are based", the SOHR said.

"The fiercest clashes of the uprising are taking place in several neighbourhoods of the city," the head of the group, Rami Abdel Rahman, told the AFP news agency. "You can say that the fightback has begun."

The group says that eight armed opposition members were among the dead, as were several army soldiers.

Colonel Abdel Jabbar al-Oqaidi, a member of the Free Syrian Army, said that the rebels had destroyed eight armoured vehicles, and that 100 tanks were massed on the outskirts of Aleppo.

On July 29 2012 04:31 LaNague wrote:
launching an all out offensive during olympic truce, really low.

BEIRUT — The Syrian government launched an offensive Saturday to retake rebel-held neighbourhoods in the nation's commercial hub of Aleppo, unleashing artillery, tanks and helicopter gunships against poorly armed opposition fighters.

Yet after a day of fighting, the rag-tag rebel forces remained in control of their neighbourhoods in Syria's largest city, said activists, suggesting they had successfully fought off the government's initial assault.

The international community has raised an outcry about a possible massacre in this city of 3 million but acknowledged there was little they could do to stop the bloodshed. The foreign minister of Russia, a powerful ally of Syria, said it was "simply unrealistic" for the Syrian regime to cede control.

The state-controlled al-Watan newspaper celebrated the assault with a banner headline proclaiming the fight for Aleppo "the mother of all battles."

The rebels are estimated to control between a third and a half of the neighbourhoods in this sprawling city, especially a cluster in the northeast around Sakhour neighbourhood and in the southwest.

They began their attempt to wrest this key city from the government's control a week ago. About 162 people have been killed, mostly civilians, according to the Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, which does not include soldiers in its toll. Some 19,000 people have been killed since the uprising began in March 2011, estimated the group.

For Saturday, activists estimate that at least two dozen have died so far in the day's fighting.

By July, the rebels had mustered enough weaponry and ammunition to launch an offensive to drive government forces from the town. The effort culminated July 18 in the much-trumpeted liberation of the post office, the last of a string of government institutions to fall to the rebels. For 24 hours, a regime sniper had held out on the roof until a Free Syrian Army fighter hit him with a rocket-propelled grenade, a moment described by many in the town and immortalized in a video posted on YouTube.