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Please guys, stay on topic.
This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. |
On July 31 2014 07:28 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2014 07:24 Redox wrote:On July 31 2014 07:08 xDaunt wrote:On July 31 2014 07:04 Redox wrote:
Saw a video posted by ISIS that featured them executing hundreds of Shia civilians. Dont think I should post that here though. It was just the same as you know from WW2 videos of nazi Einsatzgruppen rounding up and shooting jews in ditches. Only that it is in colour and HD now. Made me absolutely sick.
I really dont understand why the world is ignoring this. Because we can afford to right now, as sad as that sounds. But yeah, some people need killing, and ISIS is right up there on my list. No it is more complicated than that. For example the US is regularly bombing militants/terrorists in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia without looking for much approval from anywhere. But they wont do anything in Iraq or Syria where there is the worst manifestation of islamist terror yet in the form of ISIS. As long as you dont send ground troops it is really not much of a cost issue. Could be the fact that currently ISIS is focused on creating their own country. While they could drone bomb them this would only make them a more realistic threat to the US. Unlike their current drone targets who are actively trying to fight the US (or so we are told)
The US don't want to get involved into this mess and hope the chinese (or someone else) will do it. They know that, unlike their other operation, attacking ISIS would not only cost life but would also take some time and effort - a long war. Not to mention the US are now one of the largest producer of gaz in the world, so they are not as dependant as they were on the stability of that part of the world.
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(Reuters) - Islamic State fighters seized control of Iraq's biggest dam, an oilfield and three more towns on Sunday after inflicting their first major defeat on Kurdish forces since sweeping through the region in June.
Capture of the Mosul Dam after an offensive of barely 24 hours could give the Sunni militants the ability to flood major Iraqi cities, sharply raising the stakes in their bid to topple Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's Shi'ite-led government.
Source
(Reuters) - Lebanese soldiers traded fire with Islamist gunmen and shelled areas around the border town of Arsal on Sunday in a push to dislodge the biggest incursion by militants into Lebanon since Syria's civil war began.
At least 10 Lebanese soldiers have died in the fighting, which erupted after Islamist gunmen seized a local police station after the arrest of one of their leaders on Saturday - an attack army chief General Jean Kahwaji said was premeditated.
Source
Clashes erupted overnight on Saturday between the army and masked gunmen in the northern city of Tripoli, reported the National News Agency on Sunday.
It said that fierce fighting broke out when gunmen opened fire at army positions on Syria Street, the Starco, Brad al-Bisar, al-Ghoraba, Talaat al-Omari, and al-Qobbeh areas.
The army responded to the sources of the fire and clashes soon ensued.
Soldiers pursued the gunmen throughout the city.
In addition, NNA said that an explosives belt was detonated against an army patrol as it was leaving its station at the Hariri project area at Talaat al-Omari.
One soldier was wounded in the attack.
Source
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Damn, and I'm cheering for the Kurds too.
I hope some of this momentum for the Islamic State slows down soon, this will only continue to get much worse if they continue to keep winning like this.
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On August 04 2014 00:58 Vindicare605 wrote:
Damn, and I'm cheering for the Kurds too.
I hope some of this momentum for the Islamic State slows down soon, this will only continue to get much worse if they continue to keep winning like this.
I was cheering for the kurds as well didn't expect them to lose like this 
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Just how many fronts are ISIS fighting on and how has it not caused them to implode yet Oo
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On August 04 2014 02:49 Gorsameth wrote:
Just how many fronts are ISIS fighting on and how has it not caused them to implode yet Oo
They seem to be everywhere. They already seized billions of dollars and have thousands of combatants.
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ww3 right there.
the stability in Libya started to go down too. they have clashes between militias/islamists; plus an army general started armed campaigns seeking to grab power.
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On August 04 2014 00:58 Vindicare605 wrote:
Damn, and I'm cheering for the Kurds too.
I hope some of this momentum for the Islamic State slows down soon, this will only continue to get much worse if they continue to keep winning like this.
Yea same. The kurds are in my opinion the only ones to be really worthy of western support in the region.
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On August 04 2014 02:49 Gorsameth wrote:
Just how many fronts are ISIS fighting on and how has it not caused them to implode yet Oo
On account of the mess that has been left behind by foreign involvement, there is a substantial population willing to be recruited to their cause.
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United States43551 Posts
Up until when the Turkish Kurds decide that they want to be in a Kurdistan, part of which will be in modern Turkey, and start the same shit. That's why we don't support them, btw. Turkey is NATO.
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ISIS has enough money in their coffers to maintain a army, not to mention the people they recruit are indoctrinated and majority of them are religious extremists. As a long as NATO does not intervene with a military force then they will keep going.
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On August 04 2014 05:02 KwarK wrote:
Up until when the Turkish Kurds decide that they want to be in a Kurdistan, part of which will be in modern Turkey, and start the same shit. That's why we don't support them, btw. Turkey is NATO.
This danger is overblown. Even Turkey is not completely opposed to independence of Iraqi Kurds anymore. And they are a rational actor they can deal with as opposed to IS.
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Abstract:
if shit hits the fan, Turkey will use Kurdish land claims as an excuse to invade Syria, Iraq (and maybe later Iran) if they'll be overrun by islamists. a promise of a (semi)autonomous Kurdistan (or some other form of self-governing), would be enough to start barreling down on ISIS and repartition Middle-East.
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I find it kind of interesting that other powers haven't really gotten involved yet -- particularly those nations with aspirations of greatness. Two that come to mind are Turkey and China. Turkey has been looking to reestablish its influence in the Middle East for the better part of a century. Now's their chance. China is the other interesting case study. There's an opportunity for them to establish very strong ties in the Middle East and guarantee themselves access to oil for years in the future by offering assistance against ISIS. The answer may be as simple as neither has the military capabilities to adequately project its might into the area like the US can.
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On August 04 2014 05:49 xDaunt wrote:
I find it kind of interesting that other powers haven't really gotten involved yet -- particularly those nations with aspirations of greatness. Two that come to mind are Turkey and China. Turkey has been looking to reestablish its influence in the Middle East for the better part of a century. Now's their chance. China is the other interesting case study. There's an opportunity for them to establish very strong ties in the Middle East and guarantee themselves access to oil for years in the future by offering assistance against ISIS. The answer may be as simple as neither has the military capabilities to adequately project its might into the area like the US can.
Turkey has been involved heavily in Syria via proxy. They have been instrumental in escalating the whole thing.
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Zurich15361 Posts
There is exactly zero chance China is going to be involved in this.
The meteoric rise of ISIS is astonishing, and how they are operating on several fronts successfully is really impressive. One can only "hope" they start poking the wrong guys (Turkey, Israel) so they finally run into able resistance.
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On August 04 2014 06:02 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2014 05:49 xDaunt wrote:
I find it kind of interesting that other powers haven't really gotten involved yet -- particularly those nations with aspirations of greatness. Two that come to mind are Turkey and China. Turkey has been looking to reestablish its influence in the Middle East for the better part of a century. Now's their chance. China is the other interesting case study. There's an opportunity for them to establish very strong ties in the Middle East and guarantee themselves access to oil for years in the future by offering assistance against ISIS. The answer may be as simple as neither has the military capabilities to adequately project its might into the area like the US can. Turkey has been involved heavily in Syria via proxy. They have been instrumental in escalating the whole thing.
Well yeah, obviously Turkey is involved via proxy, as are a bunch of other countries. I'm talking about involvement by Turkish regulars.
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On August 04 2014 06:07 zatic wrote:
There is exactly zero chance China is going to be involved in this.
The meteoric rise of ISIS is astonishing, and how they are operating on several fronts successfully is really impressive. One can only "hope" they start poking the wrong guys (Turkey, Israel) so they finally run into able resistance.
We should not overestimate their military capabilities. Their successes are largely due to lack of real resistance. In Iraq doors were opened for them and local tribes joined them. Syria and its army was already in shambles before they arrived. They are not a serious threat for any real army in the field. Doesnt even need Turkey, even the Peshmerga could annihilate them if they got serious. But why should they fight to "free" Sunnis from Sunni extremists they invited? That would automatically mean they would have to fight an ethnic war against all Sunnis, completely pointless.
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On August 04 2014 06:07 zatic wrote:The meteoric rise of ISIS is astonishing, and how they are operating on several fronts successfully is really impressive. One can only "hope" they start poking the wrong guys (Turkey, Israel) so they finally run into able resistance.
They are surprisingly organized for a terrorist organization, seeing as they are able to fight on many fronts against multiple nation-states.
On August 04 2014 06:23 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2014 06:07 zatic wrote:
There is exactly zero chance China is going to be involved in this.
The meteoric rise of ISIS is astonishing, and how they are operating on several fronts successfully is really impressive. One can only "hope" they start poking the wrong guys (Turkey, Israel) so they finally run into able resistance. We should not overestimate their military capabilities. Their successes are largely due to lack of real resistance. In Iraq doors were opened for them and local tribes joined them. Syria and its army was already in shambles before they arrived. They are not a serious threat for any real army in the field. Doesnt even need Turkey, even the Peshmerga could annihilate them if they got serious. But why should they fight to "free" Sunnis from Sunni extremists they invited? That would automatically mean they would have to fight an ethnic war against all Sunnis, completely pointless.
Sure, they do have difficulty in offensives against organized resistance. But the other problem is that they do eventually need to be stopped and removed, which is going to be difficult.
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EPT
