Regarding the final twist regarding Miranda, can someone tell what was the point of her not revealing herself as one of the architects of the operation after Batman had been first defeated? To me it basically looked like a contrived way of allowing the movie to have a final twist. Both Bane and Miranda thought they would no longer have to deal with Batman, they controlled the city, were apparently untouchable, and would both die anyway with the bomb. Why not simply join Bane instead of staying undercover?
It would defeat the purpose behind "it could be anyone with the bomb trigger". She was perfectly placed in Wayne Enterprises to keep tabs on Batman's allies. It is much more useful to be a mole in the opposition because any plan would likely involve the key people like Fox, Gordon, etc.
They wouldn't need to reveal that she had the trigger, she could simply take her place with Bane. Also, since she was already in the know as to who held the important positions at Wayne Enterprises, she could simply have them taken out - no need to stay in as a mole...
I don't really get how her simply joining Bane would have changed anything regarding that. The people would probably not even notice considering they don't know her, and taking out 2-3 individuals like Fox would not have changed anything in the grand scheme of things.
Then why not just kill Batman/Bruce Wayne? "[Their] punishment must be more severe." They wanted the people of Gotham to be broken mentally before finally finishing them off. The whole philosophy behind what Bane did was to crush the hopes of everyone in Gotham. Batman and those aligned with him were all targets he wanted to break. What better way than to witness it first hand, Fox and Gordon believing they could make a difference only to inevitably lose which is exactly why Batman was kept alive.
I'm having some trouble seeing the link between what you're arguing and what I said. I perfectly get the "we want them to have hope so that they suffer more" (which is in itself quite a weak plot point imo but let's not get into that). Why would Miranda joining Bane change anything in that regard?
I think that scene where Miranda died was the worst of history of anything. And yes that was the only problem I had with the movie so I think it was nearly perfect. But do you guys think that Miranda could survive that and had a baby with Bruce ? I dont see Batman with condom nor having a pill 24/7 around him, EDIT: Banes voice was gay. and I cried when I saw tom without the mask and then I cried when Alfred was crying. and also when they met on the vocation. God Im weak EDIT2: What if Superman saved batman at the end ?
Sorry if I've missed anything, and pardon me for being a pompous ass about things, and if those of you applying some rather vulgar words to me might forgive me for not very much enjoying a film with someone breathing beer and popcorn in my face, all that aside, I still think the story could have been done better. Perhaps this is not the right place to argue it, but for what it's worth I think I should try.
First, please don't so hostile to different opinions, or, be hostile with arguments instead of vulgar epithets. Secondly, I think there's a long way between lapping up what is being offered and being overly critical. Thirdly, I can't see how a better story would negatively influence the appreciation of violence. Of course an action movie has violence, but if it's the same old, badly choreographed and artificially dubbed fistfights, it just won't do. Masks and green faces aside, there's little difference between the ninja turtles cartoon and this latest batman, lots of blows and "ugh! - ah!", but after the dust settles everyone is still alive, smiling, and off to the next fight. Not every hit has to land for it to be a good fight, it's not like a k1 bout between two large apes with no defense? Same goes for the bullet sprays. If they manage to land a bullet, the victim goes to sleep! Or jumps in the air with a shockwave-less explosion in the background and then goes to sleep. If you fire a large caliber bullet at some one, or a grenade, they will get very badly hurt. A fight doesn't, in my very humble opinion, get better the more thousands of bullets are fired to put hundreds of people asleep. And while we're on that, police officers charging machine guns in a straight line, they tried that in the first week of WW I and figured it didn't work. So please keep it out of the film. Get a couple of captains from the US army in, and do an urban warfare scene instead! Just because you're making a batman movie doesn't mean you can get away with doing sloppy stuff. At least in my book you can't.
Hopefully I've explained myself a bit, good day and lets hope for the next batman
I really liked the movie even if some of it didn't make a whole lot of sense. Like...do they wait 5 months to blow up Gotham just to piss Batman off?
However nothing else matters when the lights start to flicker off and Batman appears for the first time. He is distilled awesome. Nolan's real success is just making Batman the coolest motherfucker on the planet again. Tom Hardy's Bane is predictably excellent. Physically intimidating in a real 'fuck that shit' way. Also I was never into Anne Hathaway but daaaaamn girl.
My favourite thing is that, to my own surprise, they got Robin in the film in a way that I didn't hate. I genuinely thought it was impossible to do in this version of Batman.
Well for one I really liked this movie! It didn't fully live up to TDK, but luckily that doesnt prevent it from being a great movie!
5/6 stars from me :-).
PS. Regarding the discussion some pages ago about Batman & Robin, that movie is widely regarded as the worst of the original 4 movies. Furthermore, none of the movies made really resembles batman as he is portrayed in the comics.
Short: This movie was incredible, easily making my top 5 movies of all time.
Longer: Nothing can ever be perfect, so you can never base your judgement on a comparison to your vision of perfection. That being said, that perfection is an unattainable and misleading basis for judging anything, if there is to ever be a movie that can be a 10/10, I would expect it to go something like this.
I watched it not as a movie, drooling over the fight scenes and explosions, but as an epic. The plot twists and revelations seemed a little cheesy to me, but the rest of it seemed to be just as much in line as the Odyssey, Oedipus, or Romeo and Juliet. I especially like the directors use of dramatic irony, characterization, and the audience's assumption.
Bane was logical, intelligent, and brutal. 0 empathy for human life. He was an unstoppable evil. Where he went, he won. When he fought, he destroyed. When he threatened, he carried out. The only thing I wasn't really a fan of was his motivation. I know the entire line of the League of Shadows, but I just don't feel like it was really a believable history/motivation for a person who was so above and beyond genius. It doesn't seem fitting that he was a pawn to another person. P.S. I didn't expect Bane's voice to be like that at all. I expected it to be evil, and raspier (Something like Darth Vader). But his voice, to me, sounded more like something that went through a megaphone, which definately made him interesting during the speeches.
Cat woman was very interesting to me. Flirting between her humanity and the cat woman ethos, she showed all sides of another person who appeared almost godlike in stature. She was a fighter that never lost. Every step she made, her allies and enemies had no idea what to make of them. She was stealthy, but she didn't fight in the shadows. She was in the light constantly, surviving off of her skills and wit. The only thing that I didn't like was the sexualization. Trust me, I did appreciate them, but I thought that it was a little bit immature for a movie that was so artistic. It's kinda like the use of 3D, which Christopher Nolan stagnantly refuses to use. It was a cheap, simple way to give low-brow entertainment. I like me some ass, but I feel like a movie of this caliber is above something like that.
On July 28 2012 05:55 The KY wrote: Sold! To the man in a cold sweat.
I really liked the movie even if some of it didn't make a whole lot of sense. Like...do they wait 5 months to blow up Gotham just to piss Batman off?
However nothing else matters when the lights start to flicker off and Batman appears for the first time. He is distilled awesome. Nolan's real success is just making Batman the coolest motherfucker on the planet again. Tom Hardy's Bane is predictably excellent. Physically intimidating in a real 'fuck that shit' way. Also I was never into Anne Hathaway but daaaaamn girl.
My favourite thing is that, to my own surprise, they got Robin in the film in a way that I didn't hate. I genuinely thought it was impossible to do in this version of Batman.
Agree with the Batman is the coolest motherfucker ever lol, no emotion whatsoever when he has like 200 police cars behind him. Acting so calm, fast and cool lol.
On July 28 2012 05:55 The KY wrote: Sold! To the man in a cold sweat.
I really liked the movie even if some of it didn't make a whole lot of sense. Like...do they wait 5 months to blow up Gotham just to piss Batman off?
However nothing else matters when the lights start to flicker off and Batman appears for the first time. He is distilled awesome. Nolan's real success is just making Batman the coolest motherfucker on the planet again. Tom Hardy's Bane is predictably excellent. Physically intimidating in a real 'fuck that shit' way. Also I was never into Anne Hathaway but daaaaamn girl.
My favourite thing is that, to my own surprise, they got Robin in the film in a way that I didn't hate. I genuinely thought it was impossible to do in this version of Batman.
The reason for "Blowing up Gotham" had absolutely nothing to do with Batman at all. It was Gotham being (seen as) the manifestation of everything that went wrong with mankind, just as in Batman Begins. It's just that the city that fitted this description also happened to be batman's city. + Show Spoiler +
You can see as a proof that (at least in the german version) Talia talks about killing batman as "bonus" to finishing her father's work, i.e showing the corruption, dehumanization etc. of Gotham and then destroying it..
Also I felt that Gotham represented different US-cities each part: Batman begins: Chicago The dark knight: Los Angeles The dark knight rises: New York
Bane was logical, intelligent, and brutal. 0 empathy for human life. He was an unstoppable evil. Where he went, he won. When he fought, he destroyed. When he threatened, he carried out. The only thing I wasn't really a fan of was his motivation. I know the entire line of the League of Shadows, but I just don't feel like it was really a believable history/motivation for a person who was so above and beyond genius. It doesn't seem fitting that he was a pawn to another person.
I was going to write something like this, but you said it very well.
On July 26 2012 08:06 corumjhaelen wrote: Mediocre film, slightly worse than the Dark Knight.
Bad writing : a contrived plot explained at lengths to try to make some sense of it. Cheesy lines everywhere. The shot at the traders for instance seems horribly contrived. The moral ambiguity is overall badly thought. The well metaphor is already not exactly brilliant, but worse, we have to stand through what seems like hours of explaining the obvious. Learn to cut a movie please, this is not 1920 anymore, Battleship Potemkine has been shot... Twist is okay though, and I'm a hater of that type of thing, and the ending is pretty good, especially compared to the rest of the movie. Still cheesy, but within the acceptable bounds for superhero movies.
Action is overall decently shot, but uneven. For instance the opening scene : the idea is very good, the outside part is okay, the inside part is a mess. Rythm is awefully slow at the beginning, slightly better at the end.
Acting is pretty bad. Hardy is good when you understand him (more on that later), Hathaway is so hot that whatever she does I'll love it, and er yeah... Cotillard is not at her best, Bale is still terrible, not sure what the fuck is up with Gary Oldman (probably did not care), and even Michael Caine, whom I love, is only good.
And finally the sound as a whole is an horror. Zimmer's music sucks (yes I mean it), Bane's voice is sometimes impossible to understand, and the whole experience is a mess. My ears are still bleeding.
lol
it's so hard to not insult this guy. what kind of movies must this dude like? he seems so off. retarded perceptions and opinions on everything. seriously the movie was not perfect but everyone with a piece of intelligence could see that it's better than 99% of the movies cinemas play.
Action is not meant to be distributed evenly throughout all the movie. if you're looking for that you have to watch a porn movie where they fuck from beginning to end.
zimmer's music sucks? lol arguably best atmospheric music composer in holywood bale is terrible? i don't even know what to say i understood every single thing hardy said you also like an actor just because she looks good. that's a really clever reason (not).
did you hate inception too? which everyone thinks is like the best movie of the last decade? are you just hating on popular movies or what.
i don't think any batman/comic movie fans would argue that tdk and tdkr are not in the top3 of any comic movies ever made. they are so much better than idiotic shit like green lantern or avengers its not even funny.
bane is a true villain, i don't think i've ever seen a better one in such movies besides joker (and i mean both jokers)
yes the movie is slow/cheesy at parts but its mostly required to the story (caine's whining was a bit too much to me at the end)
i also didn't like how bane died and that bats didn't die but those don't make the story bad it's just that i loved bane and think that semi-sad endings are always more genuine.
anyways it was a 9/10 for me. 9/10 for dark knight as well. same reason; a tad too long with some unnecessary parts, minor things i didn't like. batman begins is a 9/10 too, i think it's the best movie of the 3 in terms of script/pace/storytelling it is an almost perfect movie to me. but the villains lacked the badassery. it was written to be limited a bit that way, but managed to be perfect in its limits. dark knight/rises could have been a bit better to make perfect movies; they only managed to be very very good movies, the best comic-based movies ever.
I think that scene where Miranda died was the worst of history of anything. And yes that was the only problem I had with the movie so I think it was nearly perfect. But do you guys think that Miranda could survive that and had a baby with Bruce ? I dont see Batman with condom nor having a pill 24/7 around him, EDIT: Banes voice was gay. and I cried when I saw tom without the mask and then I cried when Alfred was crying. and also when they met on the vocation. God Im weak EDIT2: What if Superman saved batman at the end ?
but she died just like her dad did, and i think that was the point. she was a shadow of her dad, and ended up the exact same way as he did on a smaller scale (truck going over a bride into ground vs a motherfucking train going down and into the side of a building) =P
On July 26 2012 08:06 corumjhaelen wrote: Mediocre film, slightly worse than the Dark Knight.
Bad writing : a contrived plot explained at lengths to try to make some sense of it. Cheesy lines everywhere. The shot at the traders for instance seems horribly contrived. The moral ambiguity is overall badly thought. The well metaphor is already not exactly brilliant, but worse, we have to stand through what seems like hours of explaining the obvious. Learn to cut a movie please, this is not 1920 anymore, Battleship Potemkine has been shot... Twist is okay though, and I'm a hater of that type of thing, and the ending is pretty good, especially compared to the rest of the movie. Still cheesy, but within the acceptable bounds for superhero movies.
Action is overall decently shot, but uneven. For instance the opening scene : the idea is very good, the outside part is okay, the inside part is a mess. Rythm is awefully slow at the beginning, slightly better at the end.
Acting is pretty bad. Hardy is good when you understand him (more on that later), Hathaway is so hot that whatever she does I'll love it, and er yeah... Cotillard is not at her best, Bale is still terrible, not sure what the fuck is up with Gary Oldman (probably did not care), and even Michael Caine, whom I love, is only good.
And finally the sound as a whole is an horror. Zimmer's music sucks (yes I mean it), Bane's voice is sometimes impossible to understand, and the whole experience is a mess. My ears are still bleeding.
lol
it's so hard to not insult this guy. what kind of movies must this dude like? he seems so off. retarded perceptions and opinions on everything. seriously the movie was not perfect but everyone with a piece of intelligence could see that it's better than 99% of the movies cinemas play.
Action is not meant to be distributed evenly throughout all the movie. if you're looking for that you have to watch a porn movie where they fuck from beginning to end.
zimmer's music sucks? lol arguably best atmospheric music composer in holywood bale is terrible? i don't even know what to say i understood every single thing hardy said you also like an actor just because she looks good. that's a really clever reason (not).
did you hate inception too? which everyone thinks is like the best movie of the last decade? are you just hating on popular movies or what.
i don't think any batman/comic movie fans would argue that tdk and tdkr are not in the top3 of any comic movies ever made. they are so much better than idiotic shit like green lantern or avengers its not even funny.
bane is a true villain, i don't think i've ever seen a better one in such movies besides joker (and i mean both jokers)
yes the movie is slow/cheesy at parts but its mostly required to the story (caine's whining was a bit too much to me at the end)
i also didn't like how bane died and that bats didn't die but those don't make the story bad it's just that i loved bane and think that semi-sad endings are always more genuine.
anyways it was a 9/10 for me. 9/10 for dark knight as well. same reason; a tad too long with some unnecessary parts, minor things i didn't like. batman begins is a 9/10 too, i think it's the best movie of the 3 in terms of script/pace/storytelling it is an almost perfect movie to me. but the villains lacked the badassery. it was written to be limited a bit that way, but managed to be perfect in its limits. dark knight/rises could have been a bit better to make perfect movies; they only managed to be very very good movies, the best comic-based movies ever.
What I hate most about opinions like his (corumjhaelen) is that all they do is say really general things without explaining anything. "So many cliches" or "Bad acting", and all of a sudden it makes the rest of us who enjoyed the movie seem like unsophistocated and uninformed moviegoers.
Just calling things bad or cheesy or saying "Ive seen this shit too many times" is really subjective and adds nothing to the discussion. There's nothing to explain and no way to back it up. Yeah youre free to express your opinion, but I'm just saying that its annoying because theres no way to back up or refute those claims since its completely up to the person making the judgment.
Plenty of people brought up very legitimate reasons as to where the movie was lacking and I can either say no because of X or say yeah that makes sense. When people just say "It was hella cheesy and cliched", the best any of who enjoyed it can do is say "Eh, no it wasn't I thought it was cool" and look simple and shallow in the process. Bah...
Regarding the final twist regarding Miranda, can someone tell what was the point of her not revealing herself as one of the architects of the operation after Batman had been first defeated? To me it basically looked like a contrived way of allowing the movie to have a final twist. Both Bane and Miranda thought they would no longer have to deal with Batman, they controlled the city, were apparently untouchable, and would both die anyway with the bomb. Why not simply join Bane instead of staying undercover?
I'll answer that by channeling my favorite Batman movie:
You've got to have an ace in the hole! Theirs was Talia.
really really enjoyed the movie. the ONLY thing i didnt really like was that it seemed the writers got a little "twist" happy.
IMO there was no reason to have the girl character be the mastermind/Raz's child. Bane could have filled that role with 0 plot holes imo. Was no reason to have that twist.
Was really happy to see the one guy be robin and not the comic book character that every1 was reporting that he was going to be. I thought they did a really good job setting up his character/what happens at the end. With the police failing him and him losing complete respect for the badge... liked it.
I knew batman wasnt dead, was just not timed correctly, only thing i thought possible would be instead of Robin we would see the version of batman where he retires and passes on the mantle of batman to the new guy, but they havent set that up yet Liked that bruce wayne killed himself off tho as it got too much whining like the original spiderman movies at one point where it was like "ok im getting sick of super heros complainin about being super heros" so now he can focus on his shit.
also thought they did a good job with catwoman
just my .02$
Thought Bane was intense/scary/believable however i still think the 2nd was a better movie and joker was done better than Bane. Tho i def def def liked this more than the beefy stupid lookin bane from other terrible batman features
Thought Bane was intense/scary/believable however i still think the 2nd was a better movie and joker was done better than Bane. Tho i def def def liked this more than the beefy stupid lookin bane from other terrible batman features
many people fail to recognize that these batman movies don't follow the comic books strictly. i watched a tv magazine where the chick said bane had chemicals enhancing him lol- she didn't even watch the movie
the original batman had many elements and characters that were bordering ridiculousness which is ok in a comic book but nolan wanted to make it more realistic. a 200 kg chemical-powered guy who is super strong would have been waaay too goofy for this movie lol, 2 things i didn't like at all were 2faces character with the idiotic suit (Nolan stayed on the realistic route so well, a guy with impossible wounds in a retarded looking suit was not a good choice imo to implement alongside a 100% believable main villain) and that strange technology lucious gave batman to see through walls when he found joker in the building, that was just goofy and unbelievable. he even left out the fountain of life of ra's al ghul's story and just made a line Ra's used to mock wayne out of it which i really liked "but is ra's al ghul immortal? there are methods supernatural"
damn i love liam neeson and that character. i watched his speeches like 100 times.
on tdr again, i think Bane was perfect- his mask unfortunately makes it impossible for the character to have much depth that can be shown through acting with such limited screen time. Heath developed awesome face mannerisms for his character, Hardy only had his eyes to give character to Bane (and the voice but that is quite polarizing, i liked it though lol).
one small thing that gave character to Bane i noticed is the way he held his hands on his chest all the time. i really like small things like that
IMO there was no reason to have the girl character be the mastermind/Raz's child. Bane could have filled that role with 0 plot holes imo. Was no reason to have that twist.
I assume you're not familiar with the Batman comic franchise, at least not that of the League of Shadows. I totally see where your problem comes from, but hopefully I can clear that up. The "twist" was actually Nolan's way of maintaining interpretive truth to the original franchise. By the original League of Shadows storyline, Ra's Al-Ghul had a single daughter, named Talia. The plot hole would have been Nolan completely changing the Al-Ghul family line. So those of us familiar with the franchise were really happy that he held true to that. Unfortunately, the majority of the audience didn't come to the movie with that preexisting knowledge.
Was really happy to see the one guy be robin and not the comic book character that every1 was reporting that he was going to be. I thought they did a really good job setting up his character/what happens at the end. With the police failing him and him losing complete respect for the badge... liked it.
I also liked how Blake's character evolved. I'm really hoping Nolan seriously considers a Nightwing franchise in coming years, if only because Joseph Gordon-Levitt needs to be in more stuff.
But as a pseudo-fan of the original Batman franchise, I felt suckerpunched by the mainstream when his name was revealed as "Robin," and not "Dick" or "Richard." And I'm only half a Batman fan, so I can't even begin to imagine how angry the real fans must have felt T.T
But as a pseudo-fan of the original Batman franchise, I felt suckerpunched by the mainstream when his name was revealed as "Robin," and not "Dick" or "Richard." And I'm only half a Batman fan, so I can't even begin to imagine how angry the real fans must have felt T.T
and catwoman didn't have cat ears, and joker didn't have white skin and had scars, and bane didn't use chemicals, and ra's wasn't reborn with fountain of life etc... it was clear from the start that it's nolan's own version of batman
the biggest confusion to me, was wasnt banes prison in some middle eastern country... as they talked about the whole prince thing, the US never had a prince so clearly it wasnt in the US or even near gotham... so how the hell did bruce wayne with no money at all get back into gotham? which was surrounded by military and ice that no one could cross. with only one working bridge... and all this in less than a day before the bomb was supposed to go off...
the biggest confusion to me, was wasnt banes prison in some middle eastern country... as they talked about the whole prince thing, the US never had a prince so clearly it wasnt in the US or even near gotham... so how the hell did bruce wayne with no money at all get back into gotham? which was surrounded by military and ice that no one could cross. with only one working bridge... and all this in less than a day before the bomb was supposed to go off...
Don't worry about spoilers, they added it to the title after they realized that people were spoiling anyway.
That being said, I have no idea except for that fact that perhaps it was there just to show how badass Batman is etc @__@
Also, I just realized who Tom Hardy actually is. WHOA, the heck?! HE was playing bane?! Wow lol
EPT
