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Crisis in Japan - Page 165

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Thread is about the various issues surrounding Japan in the aftermath of the recent earthquake. Don't bring the shit side of the internet to the thread, and post with the realization that this thread is very important, and very real, to your fellow members.

Do not post speculative and unconfirmed news you saw on TV or anywhere else. Generally the more dramatic it sounds the less likely it's true.
LaLLsc2
Profile Joined September 2010
United States502 Posts
March 16 2011 23:43 GMT
#3281
Great article from LA times..

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fgw-japan-quake-daiichi-20110317,0,5721172.story?track=rss

Says that they close to completing a power line that would provide enough power for the water pumps, which would then supply a constant supply of water to cool the reactors / cores.. Much of the damage has already been done, but a little good news ever hurt anyone.
Live and Let Live
Rus_Brain
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Russian Federation1894 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-16 23:47:34
March 16 2011 23:43 GMT
#3282
GMT time
23:39
DJ: Japan Fin Min Noda: Forex Moves Are Nervous
------------------------------

23:39
DJ: Japan Fin Min Noda: To Closely Watch Forex
------------------------------

23:39
DJ: Japan Fin Min Noda: Not Comment On Intervention
------------------------------

23:40
DJ: Japan Fin Min Noda: Thin Conditions In Forex Markets Now
------------------------------

Indeed, USD/JPY fallen -4,8%* since 11/03/2011 which is a huge amount for the currency.
*situation at time of post. Momentum downfall = -7,5%
patyrykin.net
oo_xerox
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States852 Posts
March 16 2011 23:45 GMT
#3283
I read in elmundo.es that the 2nd or 4th reactor was having a partial meltdown..let me look for the link
I could get a more coherent article by gluing a Sharpie to a dog's cook and letting it hump the page.
Vaeila
Profile Joined May 2010
Netherlands336 Posts
March 16 2011 23:46 GMT
#3284
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 17 2011 08:07 SKC wrote:
I really believe this kind of discussion is the reason the other thread was created.

Since everyone seems to be bragging about how stupid their leaders are, I would like to raise the stakes a little bit.

The mayor of a small town in the coast of southern Brazil, Capão da Canoa, cancelled classes of the public school system because he heard there was a risk of the tsunami reaching South America. He probally failed to realize that Brazil is facing the wrong ocean. Another politician latter said that the actual reason was because heavy rains were predicted to that day, but I'm not sure many people would believe that. Here is the link in portuguese.

http://zerohora.clicrbs.com.br/zerohora/jsp/default.jsp?uf=1&local=1&section=Geral&newsID=a3236927.xml

He is not a president or anything, it is a pretty small town, but damn, that's not political motivation or lack of understanding on a higher level of physics, that's plain ignorance on what a 10 year old should know.


And how is this related to the crisis in Japan and helping the readers of this thread understand whats going on in Japan?

Thats right, open a new thread...
bITt.mAN
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Switzerland3693 Posts
March 16 2011 23:47 GMT
#3285
I just realized, it finally sunk in and made sense:

You have no HOUSE. It's just, gone. And insurance won't pay, sure you were covered for destruction by earthquake, but you live 3km in land, who the fuck would think a TSUNAMI would make your entire HOUSE disappear?

One's home is hopefully a solid strong place of security, where you find a solid foundation or basis to form your base of operations, where you can return to after every day. And that it could just be GONE

wow
BW4LYF . . . . . . PM me, I LOVE PMs. . . . . . Long live "NaDa's Body" . . . . . . Fantasy | Bisu/Best | Jaedong . . . . .
oo_xerox
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States852 Posts
March 16 2011 23:52 GMT
#3286
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2011/03/16/internacional/1300289455.html

its in spanish but at the end they say that the 2nd is suffering a partial meltdown, and that there is no more available water for the number 4
I could get a more coherent article by gluing a Sharpie to a dog's cook and letting it hump the page.
Nienordir
Profile Joined October 2010
98 Posts
March 17 2011 00:00 GMT
#3287
On March 17 2011 08:43 LaLLsc2 wrote:
Great article from LA times..

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fgw-japan-quake-daiichi-20110317,0,5721172.story?track=rss

Says that they close to completing a power line that would provide enough power for the water pumps, which would then supply a constant supply of water to cool the reactors / cores.. Much of the damage has already been done, but a little good news ever hurt anyone.

That would obviously be great, but I take that with a grain of salt. If they can connect a power line to get the pumps working. Then it must have been possible to get&connect a generator too. It's just a different entry point and if the high voltage line&transformators still work, but other 'plugs' are not, then they could've bypassed that part and improvised a connection on the low voltage side/inside the building. But they haven't done that in 5 days. Which leaves a big question why they haven't done it. Not to mention that the plants/reactors have suffered quite some damage and even with power the cooling equipment might not be functional.

I hope that it will work, because it would solve most of the problems, but still their words and actions don't seem to match. Which isn't surprising either because the information flow is quite bad.
deesee
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia54 Posts
March 17 2011 00:14 GMT
#3288
On March 17 2011 09:00 Nienordir wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2011 08:43 LaLLsc2 wrote:
Great article from LA times..

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fgw-japan-quake-daiichi-20110317,0,5721172.story?track=rss

Says that they close to completing a power line that would provide enough power for the water pumps, which would then supply a constant supply of water to cool the reactors / cores.. Much of the damage has already been done, but a little good news ever hurt anyone.

That would obviously be great, but I take that with a grain of salt. If they can connect a power line to get the pumps working. Then it must have been possible to get&connect a generator too. It's just a different entry point and if the high voltage line&transformators still work, but other 'plugs' are not, then they could've bypassed that part and improvised a connection on the low voltage side/inside the building. But they haven't done that in 5 days. Which leaves a big question why they haven't done it. Not to mention that the plants/reactors have suffered quite some damage and even with power the cooling equipment might not be functional.

I hope that it will work, because it would solve most of the problems, but still their words and actions don't seem to match. Which isn't surprising either because the information flow is quite bad.


I'm not entirely sure, but the reason they didn't just waltz in and hook up a generator may have something to do with the fact that recommendations are to stay at least 50 miles away from the site. Also, I don't know how much power they'd need, but I'd imagine it's a lot more than what a portable generator could offer. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I have a number of friends in Kanazawa. It's been great hearing that they're all perfectly safe, but at the same time they're all relaying sad news. Hell, I had two friends of mine in Tokyo just a week or two before the quake. Makes me feel both lucky for my friends and that much worse for those affected.
Nightfall.589
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada766 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 00:18:25
March 17 2011 00:16 GMT
#3289
On March 17 2011 09:14 deesee wrote:
I'm not entirely sure, but the reason they didn't just waltz in and hook up a generator may have something to do with the fact that recommendations are to stay at least 50 miles away from the site. Also, I don't know how much power they'd need, but I'd imagine it's a lot more than what a portable generator could offer. Correct me if I'm wrong.


The evacuation zone is only 20 miles, and short-term exposure within that zone should not pose health risks.

The pumps probably need more power then available from small, portable generators.
Proof by Legislation: An entire body of (sort-of) elected officials is more correct than all of the known laws of physics, math and science as a whole. -Scott McIntyre
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
March 17 2011 00:20 GMT
#3290
On March 17 2011 08:52 oo_xerox wrote:
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2011/03/16/internacional/1300289455.html

its in spanish but at the end they say that the 2nd is suffering a partial meltdown, and that there is no more available water for the number 4


Is this a meltdown?

Technically, yes, but not in the way that most people think.

The term "meltdown" is not used within the nuclear industry, because it is insufficiently specific. The popular image of a meltdown is when a nuclear reactor's fuel core goes out of control and melts its way out of the containment facility. This has not happened, although the likelihood of his happening in the future is difficult to determine at this time.

What has happened in reactor #1 and #3 is a "partial fuel melt". This means that the fuel core has suffered damage from heat but the containment vessels are intact and no fuel has escaped containment. Core #2 is suspected to have experienced minor damage. Confinement on reactor #2 is holding but still at risk, although water levels are rising and pumping is continuing.

As long as there is containment (and it seems like there will be), everything should be fine in #1-#3, people are worried about reactor #4 right now though they are cooling it with water.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
Irave
Profile Joined October 2010
United States9965 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 00:23:04
March 17 2011 00:20 GMT
#3291

Haven't seen this posted yet, but its a pretty heartfelt video for the time. Both dogs have been rescued.
Translation
+ Show Spoiler +
We are in Arahama area. Looks like there is a dog. There is a dog. He looks tired and dirty. He must have been caught in the tsunami. He looks very dirty.
He has a collar. He must be someone's pet. He has a silver collar. He is shaking. He seems very afraid.
Oh, there is another dog. I wonder if he is dead.
Where?
Right there. There is another dog right next to the one sitting down. He is not moving. I wonder. I wonder if he is alright.
The dog is protecting him.
Yes. He is protecting the dog. That is why he did not want us to approach them. He was trying to keep us at bay.
I can't watch this. This is a very difficult to watch.
Oh. Look. He is moving. He is alive. I am so happy to see that he is alive.
Yes! Yes! He is alive.
He looks to be weakened. We need to them to be rescued soon. We really want them rescued soon.
Oh good. He's getting up.
It is amazing how they survived the tremendous earthquake and tsunami. It's just amazing that they survived through this all.
Rus_Brain
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Russian Federation1894 Posts
March 17 2011 00:24 GMT
#3292
GMT time
0:22
DJ: Tepco: Preparing To Commence Fukushima Daiichi No.3 Reactor Pool Operation
------------------------------
patyrykin.net
TimeOut
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1277 Posts
March 17 2011 00:25 GMT
#3293
Latest situation update by the IAEA (includes all updates for March 16 as well). Some formatting issues, check the source for original formatting.

+ Show Spoiler [Long quote] +
Japanese Earthquake Update (16 March 22:00 UTC)

Temperature of Spent Fuel Pools at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant


Spent fuel that has been removed from a nuclear reactor generates intense heat and is typically stored in a water-filled spent fuel pool to cool it and provide protection from its radioactivity. Water in a spent fuel pool is continuously cooled to remove heat produced by spent fuel assemblies. According to IAEA experts, a typical spent fuel pool temperature is kept below 25 ˚C under normal operating conditions. The temperature of a spent fuel pool is maintained by constant cooling, which requires a constant power source.

Given the intense heat and radiation that spent fuel assemblies can generate, spent fuel pools must be constantly checked for water level and temperature. If fuel is no longer covered by water or temperatures reach a boiling point, fuel can become exposed and create a risk of radioactive release. The concern about the spent fuel pools at Fukushima Daiichi is that sources of power to cool the pools may have been compromised.

The IAEA can confirm the following information regarding the temperatures of the spent nuclear fuel pools at Units 4, 5 and 6 at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant:

Unit 4
14 March, 10:08 UTC: 84 ˚C
15 March, 10:00 UTC: 84 ˚C
16 March, 05:00 UTC: no data

Unit 5
14 March, 10:08 UTC: 59.7 ˚C
15 March, 10:00 UTC: 60.4 ˚C
16 March, 05:00 UTC: 62.7 ˚C

Unit 6
14 March, 10:08 UTC: 58.0 ˚C
15 March, 10:00 UTC: 58.5 ˚C
16 March, 05:00 UTC: 60.0 ˚C

The IAEA is continuing to seek further information about the water levels, temperature and condition of all spent fuel pool facilities at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.


IAEA Director General to Travel to Japan (16 March 18:50 UTC)

Director General Yukiya Amano announced the following today in Vienna:

"I plan to fly to Japan as soon as possible, hopefully tomorrow, to see the situation for myself and learn from our Japanese counterparts how best the IAEA can help. I will request that the Board of Governors meet upon my return to discuss the situation. My intention is that the first IAEA experts should leave for Japan as soon as possible."

On 15 March, Japan requested the IAEA for assistance in the areas of environmental monitoring and the effects of radiation on human health, asking for IAEA teams of experts to be sent to Japan to assist local experts.

Given the fast-changing situation in Japan, the Director General was unable to announce the itinerary for his trip. He expects to be in Japan for a short amount of time and then return to Vienna.


Japanese Earthquake Update (16 March 14:55 UTC)

Japanese authorities have reported concerns about the condition of the spent nuclear fuel pool at Fukushima Daiichi Unit 3 and Unit 4. Japanese Defense Minister Toshimi Kitazawa announced Wednesday that Special Defence Forces helicopters planned to drop water onto Unit 3, and officials are also preparing to spray water into Unit 4 from ground positions, and possibly later into Unit 3. Some debris on the ground from the 14 March explosion at Unit 3 may need to be removed before the spraying can begin.


Japan Earthquake Update (16 March 2011, 03:55 UTC)

Japanese authorities have informed the IAEA that a fire in the reactor building of Unit 4 of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant was visually observed at 20:45 UTC of 15 March. As of 21:15 UTC of the same day, the fire could no longer be observed.

Fire of 14 March

As previously reported, at 23:54 UTC of 14 March a fire had occurred at Unit 4. The fire lasted around two hours and was confirmed to be extinguished at 02:00 UTC of 15 March.

Water Level in Unit 5

Japanese authorities have also informed the IAEA that at 12:00 UTC of 15 March the water level in Unit 5 had decreased to 201 cm above the top of the fuel. This was a 40 cm decrease since 07:00 UTC of 15 March. Officials at the plant were planning to use an operational diesel generator in Unit 6 to supply water to Unit 5.

The IAEA continues to liaise with the Japanese authorities and is monitoring the situation as it evolves.

Source: http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html
Rus_Brain
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Russian Federation1894 Posts
March 17 2011 00:25 GMT
#3294
On March 17 2011 09:16 Nightfall.589 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2011 09:14 deesee wrote:
I'm not entirely sure, but the reason they didn't just waltz in and hook up a generator may have something to do with the fact that recommendations are to stay at least 50 miles away from the site. Also, I don't know how much power they'd need, but I'd imagine it's a lot more than what a portable generator could offer. Correct me if I'm wrong.


The evacuation zone is only 20 miles
28 already?
patyrykin.net
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 00:27:57
March 17 2011 00:26 GMT
#3295
On March 17 2011 09:20 Irave wrote:
*video*
Haven't seen this posted yet, but its a pretty heartfelt video for the time. Both dogs have been rescued.
Thank you for posting that and the update. When I first sawthat video a while back I thought the one dog was dead with the other guarding it and I felt incredibly sad. I immediately went and pet my labrador for 10 minutes after seeing that. Dogs are so loyal. If only humans could be like that. I'm glad to hear they were rescued.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
KevinIX
Profile Joined October 2009
United States2472 Posts
March 17 2011 00:30 GMT
#3296
Not sure if this was posted already, but it's a very nice description of what a fuel rod is and what is going wrong in the reactors.

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/03/16/6281333-whats-the-deal-with-spent-nuclear-fuel
Liquid FIGHTING!!!
Rus_Brain
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Russian Federation1894 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 00:30:28
March 17 2011 00:30 GMT
#3297
I'm afraid this will be the beginning of a "second wave" of world financial crisis

Best wishes to Japan <3
patyrykin.net
Rus_Brain
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Russian Federation1894 Posts
March 17 2011 00:37 GMT
#3298
0:34
DJ: Japan Nuclear Agency: To Connect Fukushima Daiichi Cooling Sysytem To Grid By Cable
------------------------------
patyrykin.net
Sorkoas
Profile Joined May 2010
549 Posts
March 17 2011 00:43 GMT
#3299
Nienordir
Profile Joined October 2010
98 Posts
March 17 2011 00:45 GMT
#3300
On March 17 2011 09:16 Nightfall.589 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2011 09:14 deesee wrote:
I'm not entirely sure, but the reason they didn't just waltz in and hook up a generator may have something to do with the fact that recommendations are to stay at least 50 miles away from the site. Also, I don't know how much power they'd need, but I'd imagine it's a lot more than what a portable generator could offer. Correct me if I'm wrong.


The evacuation zone is only 20 miles, and short-term exposure within that zone should not pose health risks.

The pumps probably need more power then available from small, portable generators.

Maybe those cute generators for home use, but there are generator trucks and if roads are blocked they could be airlifted. They could've used a ship to get heavy stuff there with a very long 'power cord'. Somewhere in the south of Japan/close country must be a spare generator or one that is suited and could be transported in time. They could even improvise something in the compound, if replacing the destroyed generators is impossible or if they have to chain generators to get the required power.

It's just hard to believe that they don't go 'full scale', when every country would help in a second, and when so much is at stake. Of course that's easy to say when you're not in the drivers seat. But you don't buy a bandage when you're bleeding or a bandaid for a small cut. You buy a first aid kit 'just in case', even if you won't need it. But they still don't seem to think ahead, eventhough it became pretty clear that more reactors could suffer similar problems.
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