Thread is about the various issues surrounding Japan in the aftermath of the recent earthquake. Don't bring the shit side of the internet to the thread, and post with the realization that this thread is very important, and very real, to your fellow members.
Do not post speculative and unconfirmed news you saw on TV or anywhere else. Generally the more dramatic it sounds the less likely it's true.
On March 17 2011 04:50 Klive5ive wrote: Why the hell everyone is talking about the dam powerstations when people are still trapped under rubble is just beyond me. It's sensationalist bullshit.
Well, the people who are trapped under the rubble are trapped. But the result of some major nuclear meltdown can still affect many, many more people across the globe (and in some extreme cases, it can make a part of Japan uninhabitable and even the smallest piece of land is priceless there). I know it sounds cold, but discussing possible outcomes of nuclear disaster is more pressing issue for many people. Doesn't mean they don't feel bad for those trapped and hope the best for them. Damn this Giddensian intrusion of remote events into the sphere of everyday experience
current problems with reactor 4 are worrying, hopefully nothing bad happens...this has been like murphy's law jizzing all over the situation for the last few days so...=/
On March 17 2011 02:46 Sorkoas wrote: At Swedish TV they were interviewing some reindeer owners who apparently are seriously worried about nuclear waste reaching us from Japan. First I was laughing but then it made me rage when I realized she wasn't even kidding. Really, WTF?
That sounds kinda fucked up that they would even bring that up on the news in this situation.
However, chernobyl completely crashed our raindeer market. The raindeer is a consumer of a certain lichen that is prone to absorb nutrients from air/rain and those became contaminated after chernobyl.
The raindeer is extremely important for the sami population of sweden.
edit: realistically it should have 0 impact so it's pretty stupid either way, but that's probably the reason they were concerned.
People are buying iodide tablets like mad here in Vancouver. It's pretty frustrating how bad the fear mongering has been so far.
It's just like Chernobyl. The UN nuclear watchdog said the mental health conditions surrounding the fear and paranoia was a bigger problem than the actual radiation itself. They estimated 4,400 deaths from the worse Nuclear disaster ever.
This earthquake is estimated to have killed over 10,000. Why the hell everyone is talking about the dam powerstations when people are still trapped under rubble is just beyond me. It's sensationalist bullshit.
The estimated number of deaths attributed to Chernobyl is actually estimated to be over 100,000 if you include all causes such as cancers that would have developed years after. The severity of radiation from nuclear fallout is tended to be downplayed because it does not have the initial death toll associated with other disasters such as oil spills and the like. The effects of radiation instead usually manifest much later on in time.
To underexagerate the number of deaths from Chernobyl at 5,000 is completely inaccurate. That said, to assess the severity of the disaster currently taking place at Fukushima as being overblown before it has even been resolved and without taking into account the long term health affects of radiation is the opposite of blatant fear mongering, its blatant fear supression for the sake of maintaining a semblence of order. Both are bad.
On March 17 2011 03:46 dump wrote: People are buying iodide tablets like mad here in Vancouver. It's pretty frustrating how bad the fear mongering has been so far.
Are you just basing that off news reports, or have you witnessed it first-hand? I haven't really been shopping at a grocery store since this happened so I haven't seen any stupid people over-exaggerating, but I'd love to XD
My roommate is a pharmacist at the Safeway on Broadway and Macdonald, and he says that they have had a lot of people approach them for iodine. They aren't selling any though because the federal government has advised pharmacies not to, and most pharmacies don't exactly stock iodine.
On March 17 2011 02:46 Sorkoas wrote: At Swedish TV they were interviewing some reindeer owners who apparently are seriously worried about nuclear waste reaching us from Japan. First I was laughing but then it made me rage when I realized she wasn't even kidding. Really, WTF?
That sounds kinda fucked up that they would even bring that up on the news in this situation.
However, chernobyl completely crashed our raindeer market. The raindeer is a consumer of a certain lichen that is prone to absorb nutrients from air/rain and those became contaminated after chernobyl.
The raindeer is extremely important for the sami population of sweden.
edit: realistically it should have 0 impact so it's pretty stupid either way, but that's probably the reason they were concerned.
People are buying iodide tablets like mad here in Vancouver. It's pretty frustrating how bad the fear mongering has been so far.
It's just like Chernobyl. The UN nuclear watchdog said the mental health conditions surrounding the fear and paranoia was a bigger problem than the actual radiation itself. They estimated 4,400 deaths from the worse Nuclear disaster ever.
This earthquake is estimated to have killed over 10,000. Why the hell everyone is talking about the dam powerstations when people are still trapped under rubble is just beyond me. It's sensationalist bullshit.
The estimated number of deaths attributed to Chernobyl is actually estimated to be over 100,000 if you include all causes such as cancers that would have developed years after. The severity of radiation from nuclear fallout is tended to be downplayed because it does not have the initial death toll associated with other disasters such as oil spills and the like. The effects of radiation instead usually manifest much later on in time.
To underexagerate the number of deaths from Chernobyl at 5,000 is completely inaccurate. That said, to assess the severity of the disaster currently taking place at Fukushima as being overblown before it has even been resolved and without taking into account the long term health affects of radiation is the opposite of blatant fear mongering, its blatant fear supression for the sake of maintaining a semblence of order. Both are bad.
The only people claiming over 100,000 deaths in Chernobyl are Greenpeace. Thyroid cancer is the #1 result of radioactive fallout... And the numbers don't support your claims. There's been ~6,000 cases of thyroid cancer since the disaster across Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia - which were the areas exposed to the majority of the fallout.
That said, to assess the severity of the disaster currently taking place at Fukushima as being overblown before it has even been resolved and without taking into account the long term health affects of radiation is the opposite of blatant fear mongering, its blatant fear supression for the sake of maintaining a semblence of order. Both are bad.
I don't think it's bad to conclude that minor increases in radiation in the surrounding areas is a catastrophe. Can't say the same for the health of the workers at the plant, though.
On March 17 2011 02:43 Craton wrote: Even found time to plant a row of shrubs in just the 4 days. I wonder how many crews they have doing work at this rate around the country.
That row of shrubs you see is not new (nor is that half of the road). These are visible in the left picture. It's still amazing how far the other side of the road already is, compared to months/years without real progress I more often than not encounter here.
About Chernobyl, deaths due to "radioactive cancer" are impossible to define. I've seen the data on the populations near Chernobyl and even Hiroshima / Nagasaki. Comparing that to many "normal" populations (in order to get a correct stat) shows that there is just a slight increase in cancers.
Despite what I first thought, the stats are really, really close... That doesn't prove that radiations can induce cancer, but for Chernobyl, the number 100.000 is extremely stupid, since you don't know how radiation impacts on cancers exactly. We know only a little bit about it. It's impossible to know the number, and frankly, I now believe it's a lot less than I first thought.
Amongst the fears of "zomg we're going to die from radiation" (thanks big news media) it's hard to remember that a country has to recover. Today a friend of mine showed me a pair of images, slightly less than 4 full days apart, of a road that I believe leads to the devastated zone.
On March 17 2011 06:38 Kevlar622 wrote: you fellas heard that the creator of pokemon, Satoshi Tajiri died in this shit? On the bright side, gas prices went down because of this ;D
On March 17 2011 06:32 Dukat wrote: Amongst the fears of "zomg we're going to die from radiation" (thanks big news media) it's hard to remember that a country has to recover. Today a friend of mine showed me a pair of images, slightly less than 4 full days apart, of a road that I believe leads to the devastated zone.
On March 17 2011 02:46 Sorkoas wrote: At Swedish TV they were interviewing some reindeer owners who apparently are seriously worried about nuclear waste reaching us from Japan. First I was laughing but then it made me rage when I realized she wasn't even kidding. Really, WTF?
That sounds kinda fucked up that they would even bring that up on the news in this situation.
However, chernobyl completely crashed our raindeer market. The raindeer is a consumer of a certain lichen that is prone to absorb nutrients from air/rain and those became contaminated after chernobyl.
The raindeer is extremely important for the sami population of sweden.
edit: realistically it should have 0 impact so it's pretty stupid either way, but that's probably the reason they were concerned.
People are buying iodide tablets like mad here in Vancouver. It's pretty frustrating how bad the fear mongering has been so far.
It's just like Chernobyl. The UN nuclear watchdog said the mental health conditions surrounding the fear and paranoia was a bigger problem than the actual radiation itself. They estimated 4,400 deaths from the worse Nuclear disaster ever.
This earthquake is estimated to have killed over 10,000. Why the hell everyone is talking about the dam powerstations when people are still trapped under rubble is just beyond me. It's sensationalist bullshit.
The estimated number of deaths attributed to Chernobyl is actually estimated to be over 100,000 if you include all causes such as cancers that would have developed years after. The severity of radiation from nuclear fallout is tended to be downplayed because it does not have the initial death toll associated with other disasters such as oil spills and the like. The effects of radiation instead usually manifest much later on in time.
To underexagerate the number of deaths from Chernobyl at 5,000 is completely inaccurate. That said, to assess the severity of the disaster currently taking place at Fukushima as being overblown before it has even been resolved and without taking into account the long term health affects of radiation is the opposite of blatant fear mongering, its blatant fear supression for the sake of maintaining a semblence of order. Both are bad.
The only people claiming over 100,000 deaths in Chernobyl are Greenpeace. Thyroid cancer is the #1 result of radioactive fallout... And the numbers don't support your claims. There's been ~6,000 cases of thyroid cancer since the disaster across Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia - which were the areas exposed to the majority of the fallout.
That said, to assess the severity of the disaster currently taking place at Fukushima as being overblown before it has even been resolved and without taking into account the long term health affects of radiation is the opposite of blatant fear mongering, its blatant fear supression for the sake of maintaining a semblence of order. Both are bad.
I don't think it's bad to conclude that minor increases in radiation in the surrounding areas is a catastrophe. Can't say the same for the health of the workers at the plant, though.
It wasn't greenpeace I was referring to. The Belarus and Russian national academies of science estimate the deaths so far from Chernobyl to be closer to 100,000 with many more cases of cancers. Also the Ukranian national commission for radiation protection has estimates over 500,000 (I agree these are a bit extreme). However, the UN estimates of 5,000 seem to conflict too drastically with reports from the areas that directly experienced the disaster to rule them out or to conclude that UN findings are more valid. These conclusions are coming from reputable scientific organisations with no reason to fabricate information.
On March 17 2011 02:46 Sorkoas wrote: At Swedish TV they were interviewing some reindeer owners who apparently are seriously worried about nuclear waste reaching us from Japan. First I was laughing but then it made me rage when I realized she wasn't even kidding. Really, WTF?
That sounds kinda fucked up that they would even bring that up on the news in this situation.
However, chernobyl completely crashed our raindeer market. The raindeer is a consumer of a certain lichen that is prone to absorb nutrients from air/rain and those became contaminated after chernobyl.
The raindeer is extremely important for the sami population of sweden.
edit: realistically it should have 0 impact so it's pretty stupid either way, but that's probably the reason they were concerned.
People are buying iodide tablets like mad here in Vancouver. It's pretty frustrating how bad the fear mongering has been so far.
It's just like Chernobyl. The UN nuclear watchdog said the mental health conditions surrounding the fear and paranoia was a bigger problem than the actual radiation itself. They estimated 4,400 deaths from the worse Nuclear disaster ever.
This earthquake is estimated to have killed over 10,000. Why the hell everyone is talking about the dam powerstations when people are still trapped under rubble is just beyond me. It's sensationalist bullshit.
The estimated number of deaths attributed to Chernobyl is actually estimated to be over 100,000 if you include all causes such as cancers that would have developed years after. The severity of radiation from nuclear fallout is tended to be downplayed because it does not have the initial death toll associated with other disasters such as oil spills and the like. The effects of radiation instead usually manifest much later on in time.
To underexagerate the number of deaths from Chernobyl at 5,000 is completely inaccurate. That said, to assess the severity of the disaster currently taking place at Fukushima as being overblown before it has even been resolved and without taking into account the long term health affects of radiation is the opposite of blatant fear mongering, its blatant fear supression for the sake of maintaining a semblence of order. Both are bad.
The only people claiming over 100,000 deaths in Chernobyl are Greenpeace. Thyroid cancer is the #1 result of radioactive fallout... And the numbers don't support your claims. There's been ~6,000 cases of thyroid cancer since the disaster across Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia - which were the areas exposed to the majority of the fallout.
That said, to assess the severity of the disaster currently taking place at Fukushima as being overblown before it has even been resolved and without taking into account the long term health affects of radiation is the opposite of blatant fear mongering, its blatant fear supression for the sake of maintaining a semblence of order. Both are bad.
I don't think it's bad to conclude that minor increases in radiation in the surrounding areas is a catastrophe. Can't say the same for the health of the workers at the plant, though.
It wan't greenpeace I was referring to. The Belarus and Russian national academies of science estimate the deaths so far from Chernobyl to be closer to 100,000 with many more cases of cancers. Also the Ukranian national commission for radiation protection has estimates over 500,000 (I agree these are a bit extreme). However, the UN estimates of 5,000 seem to conflict to drastically with reports from the areas that directly experienced the disaster to rule them out or to conclude that UN findings are more valid. These conclusions are coming from reputable scientific organisations with no reason to fabricate information.
Please provide those sources... I recently attended a lecture with one of the leading radiologists here in DK where he went through the data from Chernobyl and he ended up with concluding that leukemia and thyroid cancer where the only types of cancer where you would see an increased risk and that it was actually VERY minimal, he ended up with @ 5k deaths which could be attributed to Chernobyl.
On March 17 2011 02:46 Sorkoas wrote: At Swedish TV they were interviewing some reindeer owners who apparently are seriously worried about nuclear waste reaching us from Japan. First I was laughing but then it made me rage when I realized she wasn't even kidding. Really, WTF?
That sounds kinda fucked up that they would even bring that up on the news in this situation.
However, chernobyl completely crashed our raindeer market. The raindeer is a consumer of a certain lichen that is prone to absorb nutrients from air/rain and those became contaminated after chernobyl.
The raindeer is extremely important for the sami population of sweden.
edit: realistically it should have 0 impact so it's pretty stupid either way, but that's probably the reason they were concerned.
People are buying iodide tablets like mad here in Vancouver. It's pretty frustrating how bad the fear mongering has been so far.
It's just like Chernobyl. The UN nuclear watchdog said the mental health conditions surrounding the fear and paranoia was a bigger problem than the actual radiation itself. They estimated 4,400 deaths from the worse Nuclear disaster ever.
This earthquake is estimated to have killed over 10,000. Why the hell everyone is talking about the dam powerstations when people are still trapped under rubble is just beyond me. It's sensationalist bullshit.
The estimated number of deaths attributed to Chernobyl is actually estimated to be over 100,000 if you include all causes such as cancers that would have developed years after. The severity of radiation from nuclear fallout is tended to be downplayed because it does not have the initial death toll associated with other disasters such as oil spills and the like. The effects of radiation instead usually manifest much later on in time.
To underexagerate the number of deaths from Chernobyl at 5,000 is completely inaccurate. That said, to assess the severity of the disaster currently taking place at Fukushima as being overblown before it has even been resolved and without taking into account the long term health affects of radiation is the opposite of blatant fear mongering, its blatant fear supression for the sake of maintaining a semblence of order. Both are bad.
The only people claiming over 100,000 deaths in Chernobyl are Greenpeace. Thyroid cancer is the #1 result of radioactive fallout... And the numbers don't support your claims. There's been ~6,000 cases of thyroid cancer since the disaster across Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia - which were the areas exposed to the majority of the fallout.
That said, to assess the severity of the disaster currently taking place at Fukushima as being overblown before it has even been resolved and without taking into account the long term health affects of radiation is the opposite of blatant fear mongering, its blatant fear supression for the sake of maintaining a semblence of order. Both are bad.
I don't think it's bad to conclude that minor increases in radiation in the surrounding areas is a catastrophe. Can't say the same for the health of the workers at the plant, though.
It wan't greenpeace I was referring to. The Belarus and Russian national academies of science estimate the deaths so far from Chernobyl to be closer to 100,000 with many more cases of cancers. Also the Ukranian national commission for radiation protection has estimates over 500,000 (I agree these are a bit extreme). However, the UN estimates of 5,000 seem to conflict to drastically with reports from the areas that directly experienced the disaster to rule them out or to conclude that UN findings are more valid. These conclusions are coming from reputable scientific organisations with no reason to fabricate information.
Please provide those sources... I recently attended a lecture with one of the leading radiologists here in DK where he went through the data from Chernobyl and he ended up with concluding that leukemia and thyroid cancer where the only types of cancer where you would see an increased risk and that it was actually VERY minimal, he ended up with @ 5k deaths which could be attributed to Chernobyl.
not to be trivial, but those 2 pictures of the road aren't even from the same perspective? The one on the right is taken MUCH further back as evident by the green sign on the left and the trees to the right. The right road in the foreground is still the old one?
On March 17 2011 02:46 Sorkoas wrote: At Swedish TV they were interviewing some reindeer owners who apparently are seriously worried about nuclear waste reaching us from Japan. First I was laughing but then it made me rage when I realized she wasn't even kidding. Really, WTF?
That sounds kinda fucked up that they would even bring that up on the news in this situation.
However, chernobyl completely crashed our raindeer market. The raindeer is a consumer of a certain lichen that is prone to absorb nutrients from air/rain and those became contaminated after chernobyl.
The raindeer is extremely important for the sami population of sweden.
edit: realistically it should have 0 impact so it's pretty stupid either way, but that's probably the reason they were concerned.
People are buying iodide tablets like mad here in Vancouver. It's pretty frustrating how bad the fear mongering has been so far.
It's just like Chernobyl. The UN nuclear watchdog said the mental health conditions surrounding the fear and paranoia was a bigger problem than the actual radiation itself. They estimated 4,400 deaths from the worse Nuclear disaster ever.
This earthquake is estimated to have killed over 10,000. Why the hell everyone is talking about the dam powerstations when people are still trapped under rubble is just beyond me. It's sensationalist bullshit.
The estimated number of deaths attributed to Chernobyl is actually estimated to be over 100,000 if you include all causes such as cancers that would have developed years after. The severity of radiation from nuclear fallout is tended to be downplayed because it does not have the initial death toll associated with other disasters such as oil spills and the like. The effects of radiation instead usually manifest much later on in time.
To underexagerate the number of deaths from Chernobyl at 5,000 is completely inaccurate. That said, to assess the severity of the disaster currently taking place at Fukushima as being overblown before it has even been resolved and without taking into account the long term health affects of radiation is the opposite of blatant fear mongering, its blatant fear supression for the sake of maintaining a semblence of order. Both are bad.
The only people claiming over 100,000 deaths in Chernobyl are Greenpeace. Thyroid cancer is the #1 result of radioactive fallout... And the numbers don't support your claims. There's been ~6,000 cases of thyroid cancer since the disaster across Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia - which were the areas exposed to the majority of the fallout.
That said, to assess the severity of the disaster currently taking place at Fukushima as being overblown before it has even been resolved and without taking into account the long term health affects of radiation is the opposite of blatant fear mongering, its blatant fear supression for the sake of maintaining a semblence of order. Both are bad.
I don't think it's bad to conclude that minor increases in radiation in the surrounding areas is a catastrophe. Can't say the same for the health of the workers at the plant, though.
It wan't greenpeace I was referring to. The Belarus and Russian national academies of science estimate the deaths so far from Chernobyl to be closer to 100,000 with many more cases of cancers. Also the Ukranian national commission for radiation protection has estimates over 500,000 (I agree these are a bit extreme). However, the UN estimates of 5,000 seem to conflict to drastically with reports from the areas that directly experienced the disaster to rule them out or to conclude that UN findings are more valid. These conclusions are coming from reputable scientific organisations with no reason to fabricate information.
Please provide those sources... I recently attended a lecture with one of the leading radiologists here in DK where he went through the data from Chernobyl and he ended up with concluding that leukemia and thyroid cancer where the only types of cancer where you would see an increased risk and that it was actually VERY minimal, he ended up with @ 5k deaths which could be attributed to Chernobyl.
On March 17 2011 01:03 IntoTheWow wrote: From what I've been reading, the French are making a big deal about this cause the Japanese bought reactors from the US, instead of the Framatome/Areva models.
At first when I read that, I thought you were a bad guy attacking my country, was starting to get all blue white red. But seriously, I think you are right, when we know the link between our politician, especially our midget president, and the big french company such as Areva (society mainly known for nuclear power). Sarkozy already tried to sell various stuff to other country, like that Rafale that nobody want.
Hehe, sorry I mean no offense. Just a matter of corporation and interests.
Let's not forget the type of electricity we use (alternate) for domestic use was decided based on the electric chair and "flashy facts" in it's time. Not due to technical studies in it's feasibility. In the end, a corporation is going to try and make the most out of any situation.
EPT
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