Thread is about the various issues surrounding Japan in the aftermath of the recent earthquake. Don't bring the shit side of the internet to the thread, and post with the realization that this thread is very important, and very real, to your fellow members.
Do not post speculative and unconfirmed news you saw on TV or anywhere else. Generally the more dramatic it sounds the less likely it's true.
Just to clear up for everyone, it's not the reactors that are the problem right now, it's the spent fuel rods that are kept in storage that are the problem. The ones in #3 are starting to get a little hot so they're spraying water on it. At the same time I assume they're doing something about the ones in #4 too.
From what I can tell from japanese news SDF helicopters have successfully dumped water into the reactor 3 or 4 buildings. There has been one successful dumping and I think a second one too but I can't tell my japanese is not that good when there are as many technical terms as there are being used.
The water is being dumped into the storage pools for spent fuel.
The #4 building has an intact roof I think, which makes water bombing harder
The spent fuel tanks should be a lot easier to cool than the core, but if they're not oooled then it will be worse than if the core melts (it alreay did).
From what I heard its four drops three of which visually at least looked good. Now they will use the police waterspraying trucks (11 I think).
7.5 tons per water drop (?). They have lead shielding on the base of the helicopters.
That's about all I got, I hope that's accurate.
Edit: ok sorry, it will be one police riot-control type truck with water cannon, and then 11 SDF trucks for the same purpose. Also, apparently they are sending more helicopters. So I guess it must be doing something worthwhile.
Haven't seen this posted yet, but its a pretty heartfelt video for the time. Both dogs have been rescued. Translation + Show Spoiler +
We are in Arahama area. Looks like there is a dog. There is a dog. He looks tired and dirty. He must have been caught in the tsunami. He looks very dirty. He has a collar. He must be someone's pet. He has a silver collar. He is shaking. He seems very afraid. Oh, there is another dog. I wonder if he is dead. Where? Right there. There is another dog right next to the one sitting down. He is not moving. I wonder. I wonder if he is alright. The dog is protecting him. Yes. He is protecting the dog. That is why he did not want us to approach them. He was trying to keep us at bay. I can't watch this. This is a very difficult to watch. Oh. Look. He is moving. He is alive. I am so happy to see that he is alive. Yes! Yes! He is alive. He looks to be weakened. We need to them to be rescued soon. We really want them rescued soon. Oh good. He's getting up. It is amazing how they survived the tremendous earthquake and tsunami. It's just amazing that they survived through this all.
I actually came over here to see if some one posted this already. So sad, but I am glad they got rescued. Hopefully more animals will get rescued.
Here's a source for this video and translation as well:
On March 17 2011 07:20 Bajadulce wrote: not to be trivial, but those 2 pictures of the road aren't even from the same perspective? The one on the right is taken MUCH further back as evident by the green sign on the left and the trees to the right. The right road in the foreground is still the old one?
On March 17 2011 10:54 chocopan wrote: From what I heard its four drops three of which visually at least looked good. Now they will use the police waterspraying trucks (11 I think).
7.5 tons per water drop (?). They have lead shielding on the base of the helicopters.
That's about all I got, I hope that's accurate.
Edit: ok sorry, it will be one police riot-control type truck with water cannon, and then 11 SDF trucks for the same purpose. Also, apparently they are sending more helicopters. So I guess it must be doing something worthwhile.
One drop seemed to be okay, from the others maybe 10-30% seemed to hit the building, which doesn't even say how much actually hit a useful spot inside. Of course that's still better than nothing but not really effective.
The trucks should work better, but then again they can't sustain their operation and have to leave for refills, plus there might not be that much space to drive around/positions to hit something. And we don't know how long it takes them to empty their tank or where they can refill, so the helicopters might be more effective since they seemed to drop around 1-2t in 4-8 minutes (the trucks can only carry 4t).
I guess the real hope has to be on restoring the power&reparing of cooling pumps, because they can operate without breaks and probably more volume per hour. Personally I'd try to get more fire trucks on site to relay water from the nearest source to keep the spraying trucks stationary, especially with the radiation in mind. You could turn them on and leave to a safe distance.
I did a quick estimate of the power output of the spent fuel based on the time it took for the water to evaporate, and it's at most a few thousand watts, it's not that much. If they can get water in at all they should be able to cool the spent fuel. The power in the shut down reactor would be between 1,000 and 10,000 times higher (in the lower end now, since a lot of time has passed).
On March 17 2011 11:22 hugman wrote: I did a quick estimate of the power output of the spent fuel based on the time it took for the water to evaporate, and it's at most a few thousand watts, it's not that much. If they can get water in at all they should be able to cool the spent fuel. The power in the shut down reactor would be between 1,000 and 10,000 times higher (in the lower end now, since a lot of time has passed).
They need to fill the entire storage tank to cover the fuel though, and it is significantly deep. They mentioned it would take 200 helicopter drops to fill it. But obviously the use of the trucks will reduce that number.
On March 17 2011 11:22 hugman wrote: I did a quick estimate of the power output of the spent fuel based on the time it took for the water to evaporate, and it's at most a few thousand watts, it's not that much. If they can get water in at all they should be able to cool the spent fuel. The power in the shut down reactor would be between 1,000 and 10,000 times higher (in the lower end now, since a lot of time has passed).
They need to fill the entire storage tank to cover the fuel though, and it is significantly deep. They mentioned it would take 200 helicopter drops to fill it. But obviously the use of the trucks will reduce that number.
Since the power output in these spent fuel rods is managable it might not be necessary to completely submerge the fuel rods. If you cool one part of the rod and the other part is close to melting temperature you will get a massive temperature gradient. The power output in a single rod is likely (speculation on my part) not enough to overcome the heat flow in the rod, meaning it will actually cool down.
On March 17 2011 11:22 hugman wrote: I did a quick estimate of the power output of the spent fuel based on the time it took for the water to evaporate, and it's at most a few thousand watts, it's not that much. If they can get water in at all they should be able to cool the spent fuel. The power in the shut down reactor would be between 1,000 and 10,000 times higher (in the lower end now, since a lot of time has passed).
They need to fill the entire storage tank to cover the fuel though, and it is significantly deep. They mentioned it would take 200 helicopter drops to fill it. But obviously the use of the trucks will reduce that number.
Since the power output in these spent fuel rods is managable it might not be necessary to completely submerge the fuel rods. If you cool one part of the rod and the other part is close to melting temperature you will get a massive temperature gradient. The power output in a single rod is likely (speculation on my part) not enough to overcome the heat flow in the rod, meaning it will actually cool down.
It's more about the hard radiation that escapes from the 'empty' pool (which would be absorbed by the water shield) than about the heat transfer, since the radiation prevents the workers from reaching certain places to repair stuff. Well, it's more about their safety, since the government doesn't want to put them in danger. Compared to the sovjets, where a general sacrificed a whole army to resolve the situation, although risking lives might not be necessary in Japan yet, especially with the possibility of restoring power to the plant later today.
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Gotta love their information policy. A reporter asked if the water in the storage pool was depleted and he answered that the informations the US government has is delayed. Then another one asks if the ines level is now a 6 like some countries say and he responds that they will do everything to protect the people..great way to cause even more fear by derailing the topic instead of giving a decent answer.
Al Jazeera reporting that American reports state that nuclear waste in reactor 4 is exposed to the air and emitting large amounts of radiation. The water level has dropped to critical levels, many more helicopter trips will be needed. Edit: This information conflicts directly with what the Japaneese government is saying.
On March 17 2011 12:05 Aurocaido wrote: Al Jazeera reporting that American reports state that nuclear waste in reactor 4 is exposed to the air and emitting large amounts of radiation. The water level has dropped to critical levels, many more helicopter trips will be needed.
Just one more reason not to use nuclear energy. Anyways, I hope the people of Japan are okay. I hope they can easily come back from this catastrophe even stronger.
On March 17 2011 12:05 Aurocaido wrote: Al Jazeera reporting that American reports state that nuclear waste in reactor 4 is exposed to the air and emitting large amounts of radiation. The water level has dropped to critical levels, many more helicopter trips will be needed.
Just one more reason not to use nuclear energy. Anyways, I hope the people of Japan are okay. I hope they can easily come back from this catastrophe even stronger.
I think it's beautiful to see, from both parties. I absolutely love that most of these Netizens believe they can learn from the Japanese and how they reacted to the earthquake. I think everyone can learn from it; some comments make allusion to the looting during Katrina, and I myself though about the riots when a hockey team win/loose. Made me : (
EPT
