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Libyan Uprising - Page 84
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Duban
United States548 Posts
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110322/ap_on_re_eu/libya_us_jet | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
Republicans raise taxes Democrats go to war User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Blanke
Canada180 Posts
On March 22 2011 19:51 ImFromPortugal wrote: China calls for immediate cease-fire in Libya, after days of allied airstrikes China was one of five countries to abstain from last week's UN vote to allow all necessary measures to stop Gadhafi's assault on rebel-held towns. BEIJING - China called Tuesday for an immediate cease-fire in Libya where the U.S. and European nations have launched punishing airstrikes to enforce a United Nations endorsed no-fly zone. "All parties must immediately cease fire and resolve issues through peaceful means," Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu said at a regularly scheduled news conference, citing unconfirmed reports that the airstrikes had caused civilian deaths. http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/china-calls-for-immediate-cease-fire-in-libya-after-days-of-allied-airstrikes-1.351113 Oh no! If China becomes enraged by the inevitable continuation of bloodshed, we could have a really ugly situation at hand. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10764 Posts
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0mar
United States567 Posts
On March 23 2011 01:11 Blanke wrote: Oh no! If China becomes enraged by the inevitable continuation of bloodshed, we could have a really ugly situation at hand. Secretly, the Chinese are overjoyed at this military operation. They get to see the capabilities of the US military for another time. The US will have to issue even more bonds to restock ammunition as well as fuel, maintenance and personnel costs (not trivial by the way), driving them further into debt. Finally, the US is stretching themselves even more by fighting 3 fronts. All China has to do is play the waiting game. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
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Nizaris
Belgium2230 Posts
On March 23 2011 01:11 Blanke wrote: Oh no! If China becomes enraged by the inevitable continuation of bloodshed, we could have a really ugly situation at hand. Was that ironic? I don't see what they could do besides talking ? Funny thing is they quote Libyan State TV as if it was real info. Not that surprising i guess for a dictatorship to support State TVs. | ||
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Fyodor
Canada971 Posts
On March 21 2011 20:30 MrBadMan wrote: No one knows who the rebel leaders are, what their goals are, and what they are actually protesting against. It would not surprise me if CIA/SAS/MI6 are heavily involved with those "rebels". I just know a couple hard facts about the Ghaddafi regime: he nationalized the oil ressources 1969, taking them away from british and US oil companies; and under Ghaddafi, Lybia was transformed into the richest African nation, with a standard of living that rivals Portugal. I also predict: if the current aggression succeeds in removing the Ghaddafi regime, his successor will be a Lybian who has studied in Oxford/Harvard/Yale and has spent the last 10+ years in the USA or in Europe. The first thing he will do is privatize the oil, with bids going to US and British companies. After 10 years, Lybia will be among the poorest countries of Africa again. I bet the kind of "freedom" those rebels are fighting for is the freedom to privatize the oil ressources, aka "neoliberalism". The Lybians would be crazy if they'd allow this to happen. Or become one of the most prosperous economies on the planet like Hong Kong, South-Korea, Singapore and Japan. Because market economy makes no sense at all it won't happen right. People point at Libya and Venezuela to show how much nationalization of oil is awesome when it doesn't really come close to what is being achieved in the new asian market economies that don't have the luxury of oil to begin with. | ||
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Pika Chu
Romania2510 Posts
On March 23 2011 01:17 Nizaris wrote: Was that ironic? I don't see what they could do besides talking ? Funny thing is they quote Libyan State TV as if it was real info. Not that surprising i guess for a dictatorship to support State TVs. And we're taking info posted by rebels on twitter as it was real. We don't know what's real to be honest, probably the best bet is doing an average of state vs rebel info and see what it takes us to. | ||
KwarK
United States42979 Posts
On March 23 2011 01:14 0mar wrote: Secretly, the Chinese are overjoyed at this military operation. They get to see the capabilities of the US military for another time. The US will have to issue even more bonds to restock ammunition as well as fuel, maintenance and personnel costs (not trivial by the way), driving them further into debt. Finally, the US is stretching themselves even more by fighting 3 fronts. All China has to do is play the waiting game. Somehow I can't quite believe that the US Mediterranean fleet being engaged in limited operations in the Mediterranean with substantial regional support is stretching the limits of US power. As far as the UK is concerned we're using Typhoons which aren't used in Afghanistan, operating out of a base in Britain and flying over allied airspace with allied refuelling. It couldn't be a simpler operation. | ||
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Blanke
Canada180 Posts
On March 23 2011 01:14 0mar wrote: Secretly, the Chinese are overjoyed at this military operation. They get to see the capabilities of the US military for another time. The US will have to issue even more bonds to restock ammunition as well as fuel, maintenance and personnel costs (not trivial by the way), driving them further into debt. Finally, the US is stretching themselves even more by fighting 3 fronts. All China has to do is play the waiting game. How ominous! This does make me wonder how long the Chinese are willing to wait for, though. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6232 Posts
On March 23 2011 01:41 Pika Chu wrote: And we're taking info posted by rebels on twitter as it was real. We don't know what's real to be honest, probably the best bet is doing an average of state vs rebel info and see what it takes us to. 'we' are using al jazeera as source which has reporters in Lybia and their reporters were the only ones that stayed in Benghazi when it got shelled if I am correct. edit: Misurata shelled as battle for Libya rages Children reported killed as Gaddafi forces bombard western city, while fierce fighting rages further east in Ajdabiya. whole article: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/201132292210533490.html | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10764 Posts
On March 23 2011 01:44 Blanke wrote: How ominous! This does make me wonder how long the Chinese are willing to wait for, though. Probably long enough for all the retards to die that think "another superpower = enemy"... | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
PRC has only used its veto six times since being accepted into the UN, usually in minor incidents involving Taiwan or one of her immediate neighbours. In all cases irrelevant to her immediate interests, China's position is that of a neutral observer, if even that. Statements issued in Peking on such distant affairs as Libya should be taken as no more than diplomatic correctness, in the same manner that every government is obliged to make some kind of comment on any event which makes international headlines nowadays. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
Their government is still completly based on the growth of their economy, a bad economy will not be received with a smile by the population. The economy is growing by ridiculous numbers wich i doubt can be real. I am not saying that China isn't growing because it clearly is but double digits growth numbers, largely based on linking their currency to the dollar? It seems unstable and possible to backfire once it has to adapt a more realistic growth. Finally this idea of America VS China is really out-dated. China needs the US to survive, the US needs China to prevent itself from getting hurt. China needs the US a lot more then the US needs China. Ooh no, what if the economy takes a dive and the dollar inflates? You mean the day the entire outstanding debt to China is evaporated like snow infront of a flamethrower? China and the US are chained together. Both can pretend like they hate each other but the reality is that both have to get along behind the scenes because practicality has given them a shared fate. China and Russia are just complaining for complaining sake. If it works out, nobody cares about their comments. If things don't work out they can shake hands with Gaddafi. The Russian comments are even more loosely related to the situation. Putin and his puppet seem to be having a lovers quarrel. The truth is that if China really gave a damn about Libya, they would have cast their veto but they didn't. People need to look past the smokescreen and into the real politics that go on behind the scenes. In public China says "We luv you North-Korea", in reality if they had a button to make them dissapear off the map, they would love that. China is a regional power, it's not a super power. China can't project influence for shit, and as we realized this week, the US can obliterate a nations army within hours. A nation that isn't even on the same continent as them. So let's keep China in perspective and realize that just like the Criminal League they are just voicing some anti-American sentiments whilst yelling "go for it" behind the scenes. What countries say in public and do in reality is often very different. Well except for the US since we actually know what they do in secret (thx wikileaks) and it's pretty much 1:1 with what they say. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6232 Posts
On March 23 2011 02:58 zalz wrote: Let us not over-rate the importance of China. Economically and militarily they are still a joke compared to the US. Their government is still completly based on the growth of their economy, a bad economy will not be received with a smile by the population. The economy is growing by ridiculous numbers wich i doubt can be real. I am not saying that China isn't growing because it clearly is but double digits growth numbers, largely based on linking their currency to the dollar? It seems unstable and possible to backfire once it has to adapt a more realistic growth. Finally this idea of America VS China is really out-dated. China needs the US to survive, the US needs China to prevent itself from getting hurt. China needs the US a lot more then the US needs China. Ooh no, what if the economy takes a dive and the dollar inflates? You mean the day the entire outstanding debt to China is evaporated like snow infront of a flamethrower? China and the US are chained together. Both can pretend like they hate each other but the reality is that both have to get along behind the scenes because practicality has given them a shared fate. China and Russia are just complaining for complaining sake. If it works out, nobody cares about their comments. If things don't work out they can shake hands with Gaddafi. The Russian comments are even more loosely related to the situation. Putin and his puppet seem to be having a lovers quarrel. The truth is that if China really gave a damn about Libya, they would have cast their veto but they didn't. People need to look past the smokescreen and into the real politics that go on behind the scenes. In public China says "We luv you North-Korea", in reality if they had a button to make them dissapear off the map, they would love that. China is a regional power, it's not a super power. China can't project influence for shit, and as we realized this week, the US can obliterate a nations army within hours. A nation that isn't even on the same continent as them. So let's keep China in perspective and realize that just like the Criminal League they are just voicing some anti-American sentiments whilst yelling "go for it" behind the scenes. What countries say in public and do in reality is often very different. Well except for the US since we actually know what they do in secret (thx wikileaks) and it's pretty much 1:1 with what they say. Can we please STOP the argueing especially not when it's not related to Lybia. The thread is supposed to give the news concerning the uprising in Lybia. Latest news from al jazeera live blog : http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/live-blog-libya-march-22 5:05pm Western warplanes attacked a military aircraft belonging to Muammar Gaddafi's armed forces that was flying towards the rebel-held city of Benghazi. 5:33pm Reuters: Resident says at least 10 people killed in bombardment of west Libya town of Zintan 6:55pm Reuters: US Admiral Samuel Locklear said Gaddafi's air force is unlikely to have a negative impact on UN backed operations after it was hit hard enough by allied military strikes. He also said that air forces from Qatar would be "up and flying" by the weekend as part of efforts to police the no-fly zone. 7:25pm Channel 4 News is reporting that six villagers in a field on the outskirts of Benghazi were shot and injured when a US helicopter landed to rescue a crew membr from the US fighter jet that crashed late on Monday. It said the local Libyans who were injured in the rescue mission are currently in hospital and that one young boy is expected to have his leg amputated due to a bullet wound. | ||
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Nizaris
Belgium2230 Posts
Source : deuxieme-mission-pour-les-f-16-belges (in french) On March 23 2011 01:41 Pika Chu wrote: And we're taking info posted by rebels on twitter as it was real. We don't know what's real to be honest, probably the best bet is doing an average of state vs rebel info and see what it takes us to. Pictures showing libyan fighters bombing innocents are pretty self -explanatory. A video of peaceful protest getting shot at with machine guns don't lie either. The video is buried in this thread somewhere... | ||
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Ghad
Norway2551 Posts
On March 23 2011 01:11 Blanke wrote: Oh no! If China becomes enraged by the inevitable continuation of bloodshed, we could have a really ugly situation at hand. Dude, you need to see rhetoric for what it is. China's embassy was struck by a bomb during the Kosovo war, that was a serious situation. As of now the abstaining nations are simpy positioning themselves. | ||
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
Americans deny having shot any villagers (The guardian), which makes me think it really didn't happen. Usually, if they actually shot villagers, they'll comment along the lines of 'an investigation is underway'. A U.S. military spokesman has denied reports that U.S. Marines rescuing a downed pilot in Libya on Monday night shot and injured six civilians. "It didn't happen, I can deny this 100%," said Captain Richard Ulsh, a spokesman for the U.S. Marines. Also, the NY Times has a few interesting tidbits on Libyan public opinion: On an officially supervised visit to the Old City on Tuesday, foreign reporters who work under close government scrutiny said people seemed noticeably readier to voice criticism. Almost within earshot of official minders, one person approached a reporter to say, "It will be a beautiful country once we change the system." But no one wanted to be identified by name in a city where retribution has long been the price of rare dissent. "They have killed a lot of people here. People here are very afraid," one Libyan said. Referring to official shows of support for Colonel Qaddafi, he said, "This is not the real Libya." Libyans living abroad have contacted the BBC to ask why, if Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi's government is as popular as it claims, there have not been mass demonstrations in the streets of the Libyan capital, Tripoli, against the airstrikes. A man named Khaled, who says he is originally from Zawiyah but now lives in Manchester, told the BBC's World Have Your Say program on Tuesday: Indeed, while small bands of green-clad Qaddafi supporters have appeared on state television, and at government-orchestrated media events the foreign press corps is permitted to cover, they are noticeably smaller crowds than those that took to the streets of Belgrade in 1999, to protest a similar international bombing campaign against Slobodan Milosevic's Serbia, in defense of civilians and rebels in Kosovo. And Pika Chu, honestly, Libyan State TV is complete and total propaganda. Nothing, absolutely nothing they have said so far has been verified by any other observer. Claiming they have any credibility left is similar to saying you thought the Iraqi Minister of Information had a good point claiming there were no Americans in Iraq. | ||
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Pika Chu
Romania2510 Posts
So thing is i am sure both are doing propaganda (one for a side the other for the other side) and none can be trusted and everything should be taken with a grain of salt. Pictures showing libyan fighters bombing innocents are pretty self -explanatory. Show me pictures with libyan figthers bombing innocents. And rebels do not qualify as innocents just so you know. What Russia and China do are no more than political games. They are indeed positioning themselves so they can get a win-win situation no matter how this changes. With this war the oil price should go up in europe (i heard an analysis of an economist someplace else, if someone can prove otherwise please do so), that's much win for Russia... just an example. | ||
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