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Off topic discussion and argumentative back and forth will not be tolerated. |
On March 23 2011 05:48 Pika Chu wrote:Derez, ok so we better trust twitter from rebels and Al Jazeera? In case you forgot Al Jazeera belongs to Quatar, which is actively participating in the operations against Libya. So thing is i am sure both are doing propaganda (one for a side the other for the other side) and none can be trusted and everything should be taken with a grain of salt. Show nested quote +
Pictures showing libyan fighters bombing innocents are pretty self -explanatory.
Show me pictures with libyan figthers bombing innocents. And rebels do not qualify as innocents just so you know. What Russia and China do are no more than political games. They are indeed positioning themselves so they can get a win-win situation no matter how this changes. With this war the oil price should go up in europe (i heard an analysis of an economist someplace else, if someone can prove otherwise please do so), that's much win for Russia... just an example.
200$ a barrel coming to a city near you..
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As soon as it is a little bit less suicidal, anti Khadafi sentiment will be back in Tripoli.
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On March 23 2011 05:48 Pika Chu wrote:Derez, ok so we better trust twitter from rebels and Al Jazeera? In case you forgot Al Jazeera belongs to Quatar, which is actively participating in the operations against Libya. So thing is i am sure both are doing propaganda (one for a side the other for the other side) and none can be trusted and everything should be taken with a grain of salt. Show nested quote +
Pictures showing libyan fighters bombing innocents are pretty self -explanatory.
Show me pictures with libyan figthers bombing innocents. And rebels do not qualify as innocents just so you know. What Russia and China do are no more than political games. They are indeed positioning themselves so they can get a win-win situation no matter how this changes. With this war the oil price should go up in europe (i heard an analysis of an economist someplace else, if someone can prove otherwise please do so), that's much win for Russia... just an example.
Qatar has also known some unrest which is one the reasons our queen didn't go there for an official state meeting. And Al Jazeera reports on all uprisings it is by far the most trustable source we got.
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Apologies if this was posted before.
http://www.channel4.com/news/third-night-of-bombing-in-libya
"Six villagers in a field on the outskirts of Benghazi were shot and injured when a US helicopter landed to rescue a crew member from the crashed jet, reports Lindsey Hilsum. "
I know the pilot was the top priority but really...these kind of incidents will hurt the whole operation quite a bit.
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The US absolutely denied that report today. Implicates that it possibly didn't happen, since they then would come with some mumbojumbo like "under investigation" or something.
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AJA reporting that Hussain Warfally, an important Gaddafi general, killed in western Tripoli clashes. #Libya
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On March 23 2011 06:17 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 05:48 Pika Chu wrote:Derez, ok so we better trust twitter from rebels and Al Jazeera? In case you forgot Al Jazeera belongs to Quatar, which is actively participating in the operations against Libya. So thing is i am sure both are doing propaganda (one for a side the other for the other side) and none can be trusted and everything should be taken with a grain of salt.
Pictures showing libyan fighters bombing innocents are pretty self -explanatory.
Show me pictures with libyan figthers bombing innocents. And rebels do not qualify as innocents just so you know. What Russia and China do are no more than political games. They are indeed positioning themselves so they can get a win-win situation no matter how this changes. With this war the oil price should go up in europe (i heard an analysis of an economist someplace else, if someone can prove otherwise please do so), that's much win for Russia... just an example. Qatar has also known some unrest which is one the reasons our queen didn't go there for an official state meeting. And Al Jazeera reports on all uprisings it is by far the most trustable source we got.
Our queen didn't go to Oman/Qatar at first but went in the end, it wasn't an official state visit but rather a dinner. ''Mysteriously'' our country recieved several high-tech orders from the aforementioned countries after this dinner. Either way Al Jazeera is by far the best news for in the Middle-east and even in most parts of the world. Yes they may be a bit biased but UNBIASED media does NOT exist. Al Jazeera is the closest thing to what we can get.
That being said, does anyone have a map/something which shows how Libyia is divided so far(As in Rebels/Gadhafi)
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Gadhafi: Foreign 'fascist' forces will end up in history's dustbin
Beleaguered Libya leader's speech comes as U.S.'s Clinton estimates Gadhafi may be considering exile in wake of foreign strikes.
Foreign forces leading an assault against his government will lose and end up in the dustbin of history, Libyan leader Muammar Gadhafi said on Tuesday as he vowed to continue fighting.
"We will not surrender ... We will defeat them by any means," Gadhafi said in brief remarks in the capital Tripoli broadcast live on television. "We are ready for the fight, whether it will be a short or a long one."
http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/gadhafi-foreign-fascist-forces-will-end-up-in-history-s-dustbin-1.351252
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On March 23 2011 06:39 Ghad wrote:
The US absolutely denied that report today. Implicates that it possibly didn't happen, since they then would come with some mumbojumbo like "under investigation" or something.
To add an update to that:
8.37pm: The New York Times has more on the controversial circumstances in which the crew of a downed US fighter were extracted from eastern Libya. (See 7.07pm) It quotes a Marine Corps officer as saying that two Harrier attack jets dropped two 500-pound bombs during the rescue of the pilot on Monday night. The officer added that the grounded pilot, who was in contact with rescue crews in the air, asked for the bombs to be dropped as a precaution before the crews landed to pick him up. "My understanding is he asked for the ordnance to be delivered between where he was located and where he saw people coming towards him," the officer said. He added that the pilot evidently made the request "to keep what he thought was a force closing in on him from closing in on him."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/22/libya-air-strikes-live-updates
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On March 23 2011 08:43 ImFromPortugal wrote:Gadhafi: Foreign 'fascist' forces will end up in history's dustbin
Beleaguered Libya leader's speech comes as U.S.'s Clinton estimates Gadhafi may be considering exile in wake of foreign strikes.
Foreign forces leading an assault against his government will lose and end up in the dustbin of history, Libyan leader Muammar Gadhafi said on Tuesday as he vowed to continue fighting.
"We will not surrender ... We will defeat them by any means," Gadhafi said in brief remarks in the capital Tripoli broadcast live on television. "We are ready for the fight, whether it will be a short or a long one." http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/gadhafi-foreign-fascist-forces-will-end-up-in-history-s-dustbin-1.351252
Oh Lord, I hope "by any means" doesn't include deploying his mustard gas . . . .
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On March 23 2011 09:51 Blanke wrote:
Oh Lord, I hope "by any means" doesn't include deploying his mustard gas . . . .
...On the plus side, if he does deploy mustard gas, the UN military action will get universal popularity, even in the region.
On the minus side...well, the minus side is obvious and far outweighs the plus side. Chemical weapons are WMDs for a reason, they're awful.
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Who's in charge? Germans pull forces out of NATO as Libyan coalition falls apart
# Tensions with Britain as Gates rebukes UK government over suggestion Gaddafi could be assassinated
# French propose a new political 'committee' to oversee operations
# Germany pulls equipment out of NATO coalition over disagreement over campaign's direction
# Italians accuse French of backing NATO in exchange for oil contracts
# No-fly zone called into question after first wave of strikes 'neutralises' Libyan military machine
# U.K. ministers say war could last '30 years'
# Italy to 'take back control' of bases used by allies unless NATO leadership put in charge of the mission
# Russians tell U.S. to stop bombing in order to protect civilians - calls bombing a 'crusade'
Deep divisions between allied forces currently bombing Libya worsened today as the German military announced it was pulling forces out of NATO over continued disagreement on who will lead the campaign.
A German military spokesman said it was recalling two frigates and AWACS surveillance plane crews from the Mediterranean, after fears they would be drawn into the conflict if NATO takes over control from the U.S.
The infighting comes as a heated meeting of NATO ambassadors yesterday failed to resolve whether the 28-nation alliance should run the operation to enforce a U.N.-mandated no-fly zone, diplomats said.
Yesterday a war of words erupted between the U.S. and Britain after the U.K. government claimed Muammar Gaddafi is a legitimate target for assassination.
U.K. government officials said killing the Libyan leader would be legal if it prevented civilian deaths as laid out in a U.N. resolution.
But U.S. defence secretary Robert Gates hit back at the suggestion, saying it would be 'unwise' to target the Libyan leader adding cryptically that the bombing campaign should stick to the 'U.N. mandate'.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368693/Libya-war-Germans-pull-forces-NATO-Libyan-coalition-falls-apart.html#ixzz1HOsyhRID
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On March 23 2011 15:10 ImFromPortugal wrote:Who's in charge? Germans pull forces out of NATO as Libyan coalition falls apart
# Tensions with Britain as Gates rebukes UK government over suggestion Gaddafi could be assassinated
# French propose a new political 'committee' to oversee operations
# Germany pulls equipment out of NATO coalition over disagreement over campaign's direction
# Italians accuse French of backing NATO in exchange for oil contracts
# No-fly zone called into question after first wave of strikes 'neutralises' Libyan military machine
# U.K. ministers say war could last '30 years'
# Italy to 'take back control' of bases used by allies unless NATO leadership put in charge of the mission
# Russians tell U.S. to stop bombing in order to protect civilians - calls bombing a 'crusade'Deep divisions between allied forces currently bombing Libya worsened today as the German military announced it was pulling forces out of NATO over continued disagreement on who will lead the campaign.
A German military spokesman said it was recalling two frigates and AWACS surveillance plane crews from the Mediterranean, after fears they would be drawn into the conflict if NATO takes over control from the U.S.
The infighting comes as a heated meeting of NATO ambassadors yesterday failed to resolve whether the 28-nation alliance should run the operation to enforce a U.N.-mandated no-fly zone, diplomats said.
Yesterday a war of words erupted between the U.S. and Britain after the U.K. government claimed Muammar Gaddafi is a legitimate target for assassination.
U.K. government officials said killing the Libyan leader would be legal if it prevented civilian deaths as laid out in a U.N. resolution.
But U.S. defence secretary Robert Gates hit back at the suggestion, saying it would be 'unwise' to target the Libyan leader adding cryptically that the bombing campaign should stick to the 'U.N. mandate'.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368693/Libya-war-Germans-pull-forces-NATO-Libyan-coalition-falls-apart.html#ixzz1HOsyhRID
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail
The Daily Mail is a British, daily middle market tabloid newspaper.
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On March 23 2011 15:13 udgnim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 15:10 ImFromPortugal wrote:Who's in charge? Germans pull forces out of NATO as Libyan coalition falls apart
# Tensions with Britain as Gates rebukes UK government over suggestion Gaddafi could be assassinated
# French propose a new political 'committee' to oversee operations
# Germany pulls equipment out of NATO coalition over disagreement over campaign's direction
# Italians accuse French of backing NATO in exchange for oil contracts
# No-fly zone called into question after first wave of strikes 'neutralises' Libyan military machine
# U.K. ministers say war could last '30 years'
# Italy to 'take back control' of bases used by allies unless NATO leadership put in charge of the mission
# Russians tell U.S. to stop bombing in order to protect civilians - calls bombing a 'crusade'Deep divisions between allied forces currently bombing Libya worsened today as the German military announced it was pulling forces out of NATO over continued disagreement on who will lead the campaign.
A German military spokesman said it was recalling two frigates and AWACS surveillance plane crews from the Mediterranean, after fears they would be drawn into the conflict if NATO takes over control from the U.S.
The infighting comes as a heated meeting of NATO ambassadors yesterday failed to resolve whether the 28-nation alliance should run the operation to enforce a U.N.-mandated no-fly zone, diplomats said.
Yesterday a war of words erupted between the U.S. and Britain after the U.K. government claimed Muammar Gaddafi is a legitimate target for assassination.
U.K. government officials said killing the Libyan leader would be legal if it prevented civilian deaths as laid out in a U.N. resolution.
But U.S. defence secretary Robert Gates hit back at the suggestion, saying it would be 'unwise' to target the Libyan leader adding cryptically that the bombing campaign should stick to the 'U.N. mandate'.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368693/Libya-war-Germans-pull-forces-NATO-Libyan-coalition-falls-apart.html#ixzz1HOsyhRID
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_MailThe Daily Mail is a British, daily middle market tabloid newspaper.
any of the information presented on their article is false? if so please indicate what so tl readers can have a better understanding of the situation, thank you.
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All those western countries already fighting about Libyan oil, i can confirm what has been said about Italy, although they retracted the statement to take back control of the bases, to a more mild separate comand if Nato doesn't get to oversee this mission.
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It wouldn't surprise me that the Italian government would accuse France in public to be in this for the oil. I mean, it's Berlusconi. He tries do reach the average middle-class guy by behaving like the bartender of some local pub.
And I feel some skeptics need a reminder of earlier events.
23d of february, Huffington Post
The assessments by U.S. diplomats were published by the secret-spilling web site WikiLeaks as Gadhafi vowed to fight to the "last drop of blood" to put down an uprising against his 42-year rule of the North African nation. At least 300 protesters are believed to have been killed by pro-government forces in the past week of clashes.
Growing anger over crass behavior by Gadhafi's offspring, such as son Hannibal's 2008 arrest for beating servants in a hotel in Switzerland, may have helped spark the current uprising. "The family has been in a tailspin recently," a cable assessed a year ago.
The diplomats at the U.S. Embassy in the Libyan capital of Tripoli describe how Gadhafi's children have carved out spheres of influence, seemingly treating the country as their personal fiefdom.
Muhammad, the oldest son, dominated telecommunications, another son, Muatassim, was National Security Adviser, Hannibal was influential in maritime shipping, Khamis commanded a top military unit, while daughter Aisha ran a quasi-governmental organization. Another son, Saadi, was given the job of setting up an Export Free Trade Zone in western Libya.
Seif al-Islam Gadhafi cultivated a respectable image as Libya's face to the West, and had locals rallying for him to be heir-apparent, the 2010 cable said. However, that image may well have been destroyed in a single instant earlier this week when he went on TV to threaten anti-government protesters with civil war if they persisted.
The family's unchecked control in Libya is highlighted in a July 2008 embassy report that Muatassim put pressure on the chairman of the National Oil Corp., Shukri Ghanem, to give him $1.2 billion in cash and oil shipments. Ghanem told a confidant at the time he was considering resigning because he feared Muatassim could seek revenge if he wasn't paid, a 2008 cable said.
Read it, it's quite interesting.
Also, to those saying most information comes from tweeter: it is false. But many reporters use it as a mini-live cast, that's true. However, you can usually recognize them (their tweeter is their name + AJE for example).
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On March 23 2011 15:19 ImFromPortugal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 15:13 udgnim wrote:On March 23 2011 15:10 ImFromPortugal wrote:Who's in charge? Germans pull forces out of NATO as Libyan coalition falls apart
# Tensions with Britain as Gates rebukes UK government over suggestion Gaddafi could be assassinated
# French propose a new political 'committee' to oversee operations
# Germany pulls equipment out of NATO coalition over disagreement over campaign's direction
# Italians accuse French of backing NATO in exchange for oil contracts
# No-fly zone called into question after first wave of strikes 'neutralises' Libyan military machine
# U.K. ministers say war could last '30 years'
# Italy to 'take back control' of bases used by allies unless NATO leadership put in charge of the mission
# Russians tell U.S. to stop bombing in order to protect civilians - calls bombing a 'crusade'Deep divisions between allied forces currently bombing Libya worsened today as the German military announced it was pulling forces out of NATO over continued disagreement on who will lead the campaign.
A German military spokesman said it was recalling two frigates and AWACS surveillance plane crews from the Mediterranean, after fears they would be drawn into the conflict if NATO takes over control from the U.S.
The infighting comes as a heated meeting of NATO ambassadors yesterday failed to resolve whether the 28-nation alliance should run the operation to enforce a U.N.-mandated no-fly zone, diplomats said.
Yesterday a war of words erupted between the U.S. and Britain after the U.K. government claimed Muammar Gaddafi is a legitimate target for assassination.
U.K. government officials said killing the Libyan leader would be legal if it prevented civilian deaths as laid out in a U.N. resolution.
But U.S. defence secretary Robert Gates hit back at the suggestion, saying it would be 'unwise' to target the Libyan leader adding cryptically that the bombing campaign should stick to the 'U.N. mandate'.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368693/Libya-war-Germans-pull-forces-NATO-Libyan-coalition-falls-apart.html#ixzz1HOsyhRID
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_MailThe Daily Mail is a British, daily middle market tabloid newspaper. any of the information presented on their article is false? if so please indicate what so tl readers can have a better understanding of the situation, thank you.
Well it doesn't mean the facts are wrong, just that the interpretation that '...as Libyan coalition falls apart' is likely to be a bit sensationalist ;-)
Don't forget, this mission was set up ad hoc and in a very small time window to prevent Ghadaffi from entering Benghazi and causing a massacre (at least that's the perspective I get from the situation). It's reasonably logical in this context that all parties involved in this ad hoc coalition haven't agreed on all the details yet and that they're working step by step.
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EPT
