EPTPlus, he's a pretty chill dude.
Great Military leaders of History? - Page 14
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amd098
Korea (North)1366 Posts
Plus, he's a pretty chill dude. | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
1. Hannibal. What he did to the Roman armies with numerically inferior armies was just incredible, and the battle of Cannae is perhaps unrivaled in the history of warfare. I definitely recommend reading up on it just for the wow factor. 2. Rommel. His desert campaign was another beautiful piece of work, and highly interesting reading. Despite being technically and numerically inferior to his opponents, sometimes drastically, and despite being always low on fuel, he somehow managed to route army after army with just pure genius(and 88mm cannons :-p). The final battle he lost, El Alamain, he was not even present for much of it, and despite having basically no supplies, and down to almost no tanks, he still almost held it off. 3. Stonewall Jackson. I honestly believe that if he had not been shot(accidently by his own men), the South would have won the Civil War. You can look at the South's battles before and after Jackson, and it's really quite amazing. He almost never lost a battle, and his Valley Campaign is still studied worldwide by military leaders. In it, he basically completely routed over 60,000 men with an inferior group of 17,000 men. Multiple times. Really ridiculous. 4. Gustavas Adolphus. Surprised not to see him listed almost anywhere. He was basically the father of modern warfare. His innovative uses of field artillery, cavalry, infantry, basically everything he did with his army were copied by almost every "modern" military force for the next 100 years. 5. Alexander the Great. His military genius is unquestioned, but several factors put him lower in my opinion. First of all, much of his military success can be attributed to his army being the most modern in the ancient world. His infantry, cavalry, and siege engines were technically pretty far above anything the rest of the world had to offer. His phalanxes in particular were untouchable by almost any Eastern army. Second, reliable information on his opponents forces are pretty much impossible to get, and as such, it was entirely possible that not only did Alexander have a MUCH more modern and well-trained army, but was at least numerically equal much of the time as well. In the famous battle of Gaugemela, perhaps his most famous battle, he was almost certainly numerically inferior, however, fully 50% of the Persian army was completely worthless, lightly trained and armored infantry that couldn't have touched his phalanxes had they outnumbered him 20:1. | ||
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Ghardo
Germany1685 Posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_Karl_Bernhard_von_Moltke (Hope he hasn't been mentioned) | ||
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Justifer
107 Posts
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Frankon
3054 Posts
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/General_Winter.jpg) General Winter or Frost He always triumphed in the end. be it Napoleon or nazis during WW2. On the serious note John III Sobieski ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Jan_Sobieski.jpg) For being "Savior of Vienna and Western European civilization." Should be a reson enough ;P | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
Poll: Who is the greatest military leader of all time? Someone else (21) A korean starcraft player (7) 이순신 (Yi Sun-sin) (2) 30 total votes Your vote: Who is the greatest military leader of all time? (Vote): 이순신 (Yi Sun-sin) Though I feel the need to validate Admiral Lee/Ee/Yi, feel free to prove me wrong. Whoever wins gets a more inclusive poll (i.e. more starcraft players or more generals). Edit: consider korean starcraft player to be starcraft player, so you can include jinro/huk. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On February 15 2011 21:54 Nayl wrote: There is a great western bias in this thread. Of course, people like Napoleon, Robert Lee, Julius Caesar and Rommel were definitely amongst history's greatest generals, but I'm disappointed by the fact that lot of generals in the far east has gone unnoticed. So here are some great generals from Far East: Oda Nobunaga While Hideyoshi may have "officially" ended the sengoku era in Japan, it was Nobunaga who set the foundation for the unification of Japan. Nobunaga's army organization skills were far ahead of his time and made his army one of the most advanced fighting force at the time. ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Odanobunaga.jpg) Yue Fei One of the greatest Generals in Chinese history, He fought against the Jurchens (Manchurians) as the Song dynasty crumbled under their invasion. (Jurchens conquered much of Northern china above Shanghai at the time) While there were other great general at this time, it is Yue Fei's battles that eventually lead to Jurchens giving up and agreeing to a peace treaty with the Song Dynasty. ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Yue_fei-brightened.jpg) Yi Sun Sin He was mentioned couple times in the thread. I'd argue Yi Sun Sin as the greatest Admiral of all time. He has never lost a single battle, even against a great odds at times. (13 ships vs 133 ships + 200 support vessels??) Yi sun sin was a crucial part of Korean victory during the Imjin war cutting off Japanese supply route. While out shined by his victories in the sea, Yi Sun Sin also has experience of skirmish with the Jurchens earlier in his life. ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Statue_of_Yi_Sunsin_-_Cropped.JPG) Emperor Kangxi At the time of his rule, Emperor Kangxi undoubtedly ruled the mightiest empire on the planet. 4th Emperor of Qing dynasty. His Campaign in Tibet, Mogolia and Taiwan nearly doubled the size of China, bigger than China in its current form. ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/The_Kangxi_Emperor.jpg) Honorable mentions: Tokugawa Ieyasu and Toyotomi Hideyoshi Han Xin Lǐ Shìmín, Yeon Gaesomun and Yang Manchun Zhuge liang isn't a part of your mentions xD We need more Zhuge Liang hype here, The man's badass, Honorable Mentions to the Avatar of Bishamoten the God of War, Uesugi Kenshin Who Charges solo into the enemy camp and goes for Shingen Takeda's head then there's Shingen himself that leads the Takeda Calvary raising the flag of Furinkazan ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/JEmJy.jpg) *In picture, Fu-rin-ka-zan Swift and the Wind Silent as the Forest As powerful as Fire And Stable as the Mountain | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
Seriously, I've seen Robert E Lee and General Grant up there in some people's lists, wtf. Lee wasn't terrible, but he was not an amazing general, just an amazing person. Grant is perhaps the worst successful general OF ALL TIME. He seriously was horrific, he threw away the lives of his men time and time again. Can anyone say.....battle of the Crater? And Julius Ceasar is definitely not really a candidate either. Not only were his armies far superior technically to his opponents, but he outnumbered them much of the time as well. Not to say he's bad, I've read his books, he was a very competent general, but not all-time great. He wasn't innovative, he didn't have many crushing tactical victories, he just won, and won solidly vs enemies he should have beaten. | ||
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mytent
United States156 Posts
Really. Pit whoever you think was the greatest general of all time against this guy. He took out an entire alien race, by himself, and didn't even know it, farkk!!!!! | ||
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getdead3
United States23 Posts
![[image loading]](http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081118162022/starwars/images/thumb/f/fb/Ackbar_HS.jpg/285px-Ackbar_HS.jpg) | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6196 Posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michiel_de_Ruyter | ||
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DND_Enkil
Sweden598 Posts
On February 15 2011 22:33 Sm3agol wrote: I am seriously getting annoyed with half of you people though, you have no idea what you are talking about, and are just throwing random crap out there. Why i dont post my opinions, just read others here ;P I would just hype Gustavus Adolphus since it is swedens greatest, apart from that i do not really know any details about any of the great ones. I know Hannibal was awesome, and i know Alexander was also awesome but i have no idea about what would make one better than the other. Still, really interesting read in this thread, apart from all the people posting fictional characters or Starcraft players that is. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
On February 15 2011 22:33 Blasterion wrote: Zhuge liang isn't a part of your mentions xD We need more Zhuge Liang hype here, The man's badass, Zhuge Liang wasn't really even a general, and most of his strategic accomplishments you heard of were mystified and glorified by the novel. He was a great chancellor and inventor but was not a good general when he led the armies. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On February 15 2011 22:47 Cambium wrote: Zhuge Liang wasn't really even a general, and most of his strategic accomplishments you heard of were mystified and glorified by the novel. He was a great chancellor and inventor but was not a good general when he led the armies. Of course the parts about summoning the Southeast wind is a bit sketchy but his strategic accomplishment, shouldn't be just shaken off so simply, where there's smoke there's fire, one might say | ||
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Tachyon
Denmark146 Posts
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/UgE2C.jpg) | ||
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Aresien
United Kingdom305 Posts
On February 15 2011 22:33 Sm3agol wrote: And Julius Ceasar is definitely not really a candidate either. Not only were his armies far superior technically to his opponents, but he outnumbered them much of the time as well. Not to say he's bad, I've read his books, he was a very competent general, but not all-time great. He wasn't innovative, he didn't have many crushing tactical victories, he just won, and won solidly vs enemies he should have beaten. I'm sorry, but simply from the battle of Alesia I disagree. His use of fortifications was brilliant. That wasn't it though, his ability as a general really showed when he jumped in to the thick of battle which gave his troops the morale to fight on. Super outnumbered too, over double. You just can't play that down. | ||
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borny
China481 Posts
On February 15 2011 21:40 PepperoniPiZZa wrote: Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim. 25000 dead vs 180000 dead ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/Carl_Gustaf_Emil_Mannerheim.jpg/378px-Carl_Gustaf_Emil_Mannerheim.jpg) Damn straight. Can't believe he wasn't mentioned before. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
On February 15 2011 22:51 Blasterion wrote: Of course the parts about summoning the Southeast wind is a bit sketchy but his strategic accomplishment, shouldn't be just shaken off so simply, where there's smoke there's fire, one might say Actually, no. A lot of what he did were borrowed from other people. I have a very strong interest in this area, so I am more than willing to further this discussion. Here are some articles for starters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhuge_Liang#In_fiction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictitious_stories_in_Romance_of_the_Three_Kingdoms These are actually largely incomplete, there are various books outlining the differences between fiction and actual history, this is one of the popular ones: ![[image loading]](http://www.chinabooks.ch/catalog/images/40.0032.jpg) One point I like to emphasis is that Zhuge Liang never accomplished anything in terms of a general. Liu Bei and Zhou Yu won over Jing Zhou. Zhuge Liang's efforts in Chibi were mostly fictional: he did not get the arrows, he did not link the boats together, he did not even place Guan Yu at Hua Rong. Fa Zheng and Pang Tong won Yi Zhou for Liu Bei After Liu Bei died, Zhuge Liang made various and repeated military attempts, and nearly failed all of them. You can't call someone the "greatest general" without any real military accomplishments. This is what Si Ma Yi said w.r.t. Zhuge Liang at one point: 亮志大而不见机，多谋而少决，好兵而无权 | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
On February 15 2011 22:55 Aresien wrote: I'm sorry, but simply from the battle of Alesia I disagree. His use of fortifications was brilliant. That wasn't it though, his ability as a general really showed when he jumped in to the thick of battle which gave his troops the morale to fight on. Super outnumbered too, over double. You just can't play that down. Well....as i said, no, I'm not calling him terrible. But for crying aloud he was fighting a barbarian army that still used a primitive phalanx half the time, vs his highly trained and modern legions. And jumping into the thick of battle doesn't qualify you as a great tactician/general. Ceasar an all-time great leader? Sure. All-time great General? Maybe, but, imo not top 5 or even 10. His army gave him too much of an advantage for me to say that. Fair? Maybe not, but imo, a general who proves he can win vs better equipped and numerically superior forces is better than one who merely uses his armies great advantages to its best potential. And there are too many proven generals who won with less for me to put Ceasar up there as an all time top 5/10 general. | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
On February 15 2011 22:57 borny wrote: Damn straight. Can't believe he wasn't mentioned before. Sure on paper he looks amazing, but then you consider the army he was facing. Basically, he had a well-equipped, well prepared, experienced army on the defense, while his opponents were horribly trained, had political officers for commanders, and were woefully ill-equipped. Not to mention ol' Father Winter was on his side, as it is always on the side of the defender. | ||
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