EPTArticle: "Why Chinese mothers are superior." - Page 6
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MetalMarine
United States1559 Posts
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ktp
United States797 Posts
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Sablar
Sweden880 Posts
On January 09 2011 09:42 Krigwin wrote: If you follow the guidelines stated in that article, your children are very likely to be all of those things. The kind of strict, neurosis-inducing, ends-oriented parenting many Chinese parents favor is nothing more than filial totalitarianism. I personally don't like the way that it's described, but the whole psychodynamic concept of overprotective or strict mothers doesn't really seem to add up either. People used to(or still..) blame a lot of mental illness on mothers but now it's just not showing up in research. | ||
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Enervate
United States1769 Posts
On January 09 2011 09:42 Krigwin wrote: If you follow the guidelines stated in that article, your children are very likely to be all of those things. The kind of strict, neurosis-inducing, ends-oriented parenting many Chinese parents favor is nothing more than filial totalitarianism. Nice. Throw in an illogical adjective in between two reasonable ones and hope people automatically agree with all three, or just fail to notice the gravity of the second one in between thanks to the serial position effect. So many meaningless assumptions in this thread. Even if you were an expert on psychology and childhood development, you still wouldn't be justified in your conclusion that this style of parenting is likely (read more than 50%) going to result in socially underdeveloped and emotionally unstable children. You provide absolutely no data or reason for your argument. Here's my argument. I know three people who have undergone this style of parenting and all 3 appear to be fine. 100% success rate, pretty good right? | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On January 09 2011 09:59 BasedSwag wrote: I'm not assuming the parents were abusing their kids.. they were. Not letting someone go to the bathroom is an idea you might have when considering how to torture a person, not something you would do to your children. The fact that she decided to use such a harsh 'punishment' over something as ridiculous as piano training is disgusting to me. Like I said, define your idea of child abuse otherwise your post carries no content. I think you are taking the situation farther than what it actually went down, but that's normal people tend to take things to the extreme when the entire situation isn't known. I wouldn't say her methods are great, but I wouldn't dismiss her ideas. The problem with your logic is that you automatically assume that this method of parenting will doom the kid to problems later in life, that in itself is an assumption, different people respond differently, children are not that different. If parenting was really that easy and kids were really that malleable, then every kid who underwent a divorce or family death would be one fucked up serial killer. That being said, there's a bunch of assumptions being floated around and half the posters can't distinguish them from fact. | ||
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j0k3r
United States577 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
On January 09 2011 10:07 Judicator wrote: Like I said, define your idea of child abuse otherwise your post carries no content. I think you are taking the situation farther than what it actually went down, but that's normal people tend to take things to the extreme when the entire situation isn't known. I wouldn't say her methods are great, but I wouldn't dismiss her ideas. The problem with your logic is that you automatically assume that this method of parenting will doom the kid to problems later in life, that in itself is an assumption, different people respond differently, children are not that different. If parenting was really that easy and kids were really that malleable, then every kid who underwent a divorce or family death would be one fucked up serial killer. That being said, there's a bunch of assumptions being floated around and half the posters can't distinguish them from fact. Increased likelihood if they are white male and live in the US just saying we own in the serial killer department. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On January 09 2011 10:08 j0k3r wrote: Shiet my parents weren't that harsh but I know friends in college now whose parents still treat them that way. Honestly it's degrading being forced into a field of study which you are not interested (medicine, computer engineering etc.) and degrading to be locked in your house as a college student if you did poorly on an exam (i.e. a B). The "Chinese mother" method of parenting is not in the best interest of the kid. I was raised with mixed parenting strategies - I did attend academic enrichment classes by force, but I also was given a high degree of freedom later in high school and encouraged to pursue creative activities such as writing. I did exceptionally well on the SATs and got into a great university without the sort of enslavement many of my friends endured. I could tell they loathed the lifetime of restriction and over-discipline while maintaining some semblance of external normality. But I also know they're not going to grow up as balanced people. I have no idea where you get the idea that you need to be "balanced" to be successful. Go read up on Facebook's founder, he sucks at people skills ironically. | ||
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Mawi
Sweden4365 Posts
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Spinfusor
Australia410 Posts
On January 09 2011 10:04 ktp wrote: If you want to raise robots then this method of parenting is ideal. However, realize that robots are all B team practice partners. Starleague champions aren't raised this way. Oh, why's that? Do you think Flash and Jaedong don't practice to a ridiculous extent or something? I, for one, was under the impression Flash was a machine. | ||
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goldrush
Canada709 Posts
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dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
The article is just really bad writing. It's like analyzing a novel for writing class, noting (for example) that a character's shirt is green, his card is green, he works for Greene corp... but never explaining the significance of the color green in the first place. Here Chua states, first thing, that Chinese parents "raise such stereotypically successful kids" and she does nothing to prove the depth of that claim. | ||
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Krigwin
1130 Posts
On January 09 2011 09:47 shindigs wrote: The other side of the coin is that she's right to a certain degree. I personally don't see anything wrong with strictly emphasizing academic word among other things. The point is to reinforce a good work ethic and to teach that anything can be done with hard work. I know kids who's parents were closely like the author, and they turned out fine. Not all kids are the same, and some will flourish under such parenting while still being aware of the need for other things in their life other than academic success. Keep in mind that completely blowing off an entire style of parenting is no better than enforcing a completely "totalitarian" one. I really can't agree that the "having a life is better" argument is any much better than the original author's. Sometimes I prefer what most people would consider "having no life" and staying home and studying to stay on top of my work instead of blowing off work to socialize. It's not that I hate people or I'm a shut in of any sort - you just have to prioritize. And I know plenty of kids whose parents were closely like the author, and they ended up having serious drug and depression problems. One even ended up killing his mother. Expecting a child to have the work ethic and threshold for monotony and solitude of an adult is psychotic, and things like forcing your kids to learn instruments under penalty of urinary incontinence is child abuse. You can teach things like the value of a good work ethic and the importance of academic prowess without making them the principal motors for your parenting, and even then I would argue that such things are secondary to the most important tools for living life: proper mental and social faculties chiefly amongst them. | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
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snotboogie
Australia3550 Posts
On January 09 2011 09:29 Loanshark wrote: Then how would you explain Western-style-parented kids having OCD or perfectionism? Well OCD and depression have many factors. The problem with this kind of parenting is the child learns early on that love is conditional. They learn they have to do something to deserve love and this encourages them to attack themselves mentally, which some particular stress event could push into painful thinking. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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G0dly
United States450 Posts
I knew a kid whose chinese parents got pissed at him for not maintaining perfect grades. It's not that he didn't try - his parents forced him to study and he tried his best, but no matter he couldn't meet their standards. His parents called him stupid, they accused him of trying to disappoint them, they punished him by not letting him go to friends houses, go to movies, etc. Eventually he straight up hung himself in school. The best way is to have a balanced approach. Yes, you should establish a good work ethic - teach children to do their homework, to study, to get good grades, but also let them have some fun. Yelling at a child for getting an A- is ridiculous. I'd rather have a child who gets A- or B+ and has an active social life and friends as opposed to an A+ tryhard who studies/plays instruments all day and night. addendum: in high school my parents didn't even check my grades. They give me complete independence and do not force me to study - I studied on my own and completed work on my own. When I was younger they taught me that learning was its own reward, that I should always try my best, and that it's important not to be lazy. I'm no genius, not valedictorian, but did get accepted into Cornell while still having fun in high school and maintaining an active social life. There are a lot of kids in my school raised in the manner described in that article, and they hate their lives. They walk into class like zombies because they get 3-4 hours of sleep a night. They'll fight with the teacher over 3 points on a test because they got a 95 instead of a 98 (while I might be sitting in class happy with a 92). Their grades are their lives. I say fuck that, go out and have some fun, you only fucking live once, you're only a kid once. | ||
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jorge_the_awesome
United States463 Posts
On January 09 2011 10:14 Spinfusor wrote: Oh, why's that? Do you think Flash and Jaedong don't practice to a ridiculous extent or something? I, for one, was under the impression Flash was a machine. There's the idea of 10000 hours. They have put in their time, and thus are experts at sc2. If you do anything for a long time, you'll be very good at it. At the same time, I think the ideal method is a balance. However, I'm biased. That's what I have, and I'm a happy person who does very well in school. I'm on a robotics team, and I would never have found it under her style of parenting. However, I've done very well at it (4th-1st, if not for a fluke chance- at an international competition!). It has given me so much experience in engineering and programming. Without it, I would be just a random guy with no friends (almost all of my friends come from/are on the team) Perhaps the parent is trying to hide inner psychological issues? What do you guys think? Which is the best way to work? A: Self motivation B: Forced by others I personally advocate A, because your parents will not always be around. A good work ethic will get you through most anything. | ||
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Marl
United States692 Posts
IMO in the ideal world, society should be the ones to urge children to be successful while family should be there to urge their children to be happy. If the family stops focusing on the kid's happiness, then where else will he/she find it? | ||
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
On January 09 2011 10:02 MetalMarine wrote: I am going to fucking give everyone who posts in this thread $5 if her daughters become pornstars. Please quote me on this I'd better get in on this thread, then. A couple things in the article made sense - don't lie/condescend to your children just to make them think they're wonderful; push them to do well, help them to do well. But don't fucking shackle your child to the piano because you want a prize pony to show your mother and all the other crazy-bitch mothers who abuse their kids out of 'love'. | ||
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