|
The Chinese people, while they may be hard workers and with similar backgrounds/finance, are unable to get into the uttermost top positions in the Federal Reserve if they did not have good connections
board of governors:
Benjamin S. Bernanke ( Former Harvard instructor and now chairman of the fed )
Donald L. Kohn
Kevin M. Warsh
Randall S. Kroszner
Frederic S. Mishkin
12 fed bank presidents: most of these guys have PhDs
Boston: Eric S. Rosengren
New York: Timothy F. Geithner
Philadelphia: Charles I. Plosser
Richmond: Jeffrey M. Lacker
St. Louis: James B. Bullard
Minneapolis: Gary H. Stern
Kansas City: Thomas M. Hoenig
Dallas: Richard W. Fisher
San Francisco: Janet L. Yellen
Cleveland: Sandra Pianalto / gentile
Atlanta: Dennis P. Lockhart / gentile
Chicago: Charles L. Evans / gentile
|
That's honestly awful.
successful in life and happy childhood >>>>>>>>>>>>. very successful in life and miserable childhood
|
This article should be made into "some Asian mother in America".
I really do not see a lot of mothers like that in China. May be a minority out of all the mothers do... (which exist in all cultures I guess?)
If all mothers are like that those gangs in our city must not be able to find any "new recruits" for their "business".
Anyways, I just feel that American culture is getting more and more conservative.... Chinese mothers in USA and Chinese mothers in China is completely two different species.
Think about it: Why would you study hard when all you need to succeed in China is to "know the right people"? Guanxi is much more important than knowledge; college graduates are fighting for jobs like security guard in mainland China. (It only support the proofs that mother DO encourage children to go to college, but it is starting to change now....)
|
On January 10 2011 12:15 BraveGhost wrote:
All work and no play, makes for a dull day... Like i've said before, maybe Im a little idealistic, but I am really sad for this ladies kids, and it saddens me more to see people defending these parents actions and justifying it simply by saying, well... they make more money and have better grades.
Yeah, this lady's definitely taking it to the extreme. Still, I think it's important to strike a balance between work and play that, while not all work, is still more work than play. The problem is, I know some family friends in our circle of Chinese-American families that were raised like this (still, not as extreme), and as soon as they got to college, their parents had significantly less control over their actions, so they did everything they couldn't do growing up.
My parents definitely worked me hard. My mom did the whole "sit there while I'm playing piano" thing to make sure I practiced, It was never more than an hour a day, though, partly because the people who practice three hours a day will end up getting a degree in piano performance (or at least play at that level), and neither of us saw that as a future for me. I had to get straight A's in school, and my parents definitely got pissed when I got my first B+ in high school.
I was still allowed to play video games, though (as evidenced by the fact that I'm on a Starcraft forum). I was allowed to attend sleepovers and friend's parties, but ONLY if I had already finished all of my homework. They're of the belief that a high salary is a good measure of success (as am I), but we also appreciate the value of leading a happy life. It's just that they think a high salary will help facilitate a happy life, which may or may not be due to financial situations we've been in.
So now I'm in college, and I'm not going crazy. I had to motivate myself for some things through high school, so I can do the same in college. I only play BW on breaks when I have no homework (which really damages my BW skill. Like fuck. I can't break the D+/C- barrier, and I've been playing this game for three years now?)
These kids who only work hard because of their parents might find themselves lacking all reason to work once their parents are no longer breathing down their necks.
And for all of those people talking about anecdotal evidence or whatnot, of course we're going to have anecdotes. My post is an anecdote. I don't get how we can discuss this topic without anecdotes. And just because something is an anecdote doesn't mean it's completely worthless.
Also, I thought of this just now, but I don't think all Asian parenting is about all work and no play. It's about being the best. Yes, I play video games, but for as long as I can remember, I've had a play to win attitude. I remember being at Chuck E. Cheese's when I was like six years old at a birthday party, and instead of playing the games that I thought were the most fun, I played the ones that had the highest ticket-to-coin ratio, because I knew that I fucking wanted those tickets, and they were an objective measure of success at Chuck E. Cheese. Then, I realized that the coins were equivalent to quarters, and you were allowed to purchase the prizes with money, with each ticket being worth one cent. From that point on, I refused to play any game that would, on average, pay out less than twenty five tickets for one coin. And all a lot of my friends now won't play me in Starcraft or SSBM, because while they were dicking around and playing 4v4 fastest or FFA games, I was trying to make myself better.
...
I lead a joyless existence T.T
I kid. I'm actually fine with my mentality. Winning for me is fun, so I play to win, and I'm pretty sure this is the result of Asian parenting.
EDIT: @ GWBushJr, the lack of Asians there could very well be because of a racial bias in the general public. Go look up how many Asian Congressmen there are. There's a reason a significant majority of Congress is white and male. While the Board Governors of the Federal Reserve aren't voted on by the public, they're appointed positions, and general opinion definitely plays a role. If the USA was a perfect meritocracy, I highly doubt the ratio between races in such positions would be the same.
EDIT2: Yeah, everyone on that list is white, and all are male with the exception of Yellen and Pianalto.
|
Being Asian and somewhat a product of this kind of parenting, I do appreciate what my parents have done for me. Yet I think one needs to be careful when applying this method... it doesn't work on every child. There has to be a balance between fun and work, and you really should let a child find his/her own way eventually.
I mean, by this logic asian kids should be the best at everything when they grow up. This is clearly not the case. There are plenty of geniuses around of all nationalities.
|
On January 09 2011 09:07 sikyon wrote:
Chinese people looooooove anecdotal evidence. They LOVE to tell stories. The trick is to basically ask for citations. I ask for citations to anecdotes all the time, statistical evidence.
It's well documented that Asian students perform better in American schools and have higher scores on standarized tests, fyi. The statistical evidence of this has been published to death, the author only tries to explain why...
I'm kind of surprised how hostile tl is to this article. I grew up in a sort of free-form parenting environment with lots of babysitters and busy, divorced parents. I feel like the quality of my life went up dramatically when I added some discipline and structure to the way I lived. If it had been there earlier I imagine I would have been better off.
I feel like children should be able to choose their interests to a greater degree than the author suggests, but that the pressure to perform should still be present.
|
So basically her children are suffering, living a depressing life and basically trapped by her mothers cage. Her ego is pretty pathetic.
Now I havent read the whole article just because I felt incredibly sorry for them because of their parents.
I would just like to say in my opinon that they would barely have any experience with the outside world with those rules she enforces on her kids. Which is a huge deal to be successful with your older. You should be able to socialize with other people outside other than parents, other adults and family members. I remember a friend of mine who always told me, "Having social skills is sometimes better than having a better qualification" Which is true for me because that has actually happened to me before.
To wrap it all up, I had a few friends who had parents like that, and I could only talk to them at school and when they got out of high school. They were a total wreck.
|
On January 10 2011 12:56 Drowsy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 09:07 sikyon wrote:
Chinese people looooooove anecdotal evidence. They LOVE to tell stories. The trick is to basically ask for citations. I ask for citations to anecdotes all the time, statistical evidence. It's well documented that Asian students perform better in American schools and have higher scores on standarized tests, fyi. The statistical evidence of this has been published to death, the author only tries to explain why... I'm kind of surprised how hostile tl is to this article. I grew up in a sort of free-form parenting environment with lots of babysitters and busy, divorced parents. I feel like the quality of my life went up dramatically when I added some discipline and structure to the way I lived. If it had been there earlier I imagine I would have been better off. I feel like children should be able to choose their interests to a greater degree than the author suggests, but that the pressure to perform should still be present.
Adding some structure and discipline to your own life is different than being forced to sit at the piano for hours, not allowed to get up for anything for hours until you get it perfect, no? And also, if your parents were psychotic idiots who forced you to study 25 hours a day against your will and have a miserable childhood, your "discipline" will completely dissolve once there's no one forcing you to do everything. There's a difference between instilling some discipline and values, while allowing the child to develop his own interests and have a life than forcing a child to work at whatever you tell him to in order to make him a trophy robot who will probably be worse off than the white kid who both studies and has time for play.
|
wow this is serously child abuse. This is a such a close minded and outdated way of rasing a child, i would not be surprised if all these kids grow up to have serious self esteem issues. No wonder my dad is worried china will take over the world
|
On January 10 2011 12:56 Drowsy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 09:07 sikyon wrote:
Chinese people looooooove anecdotal evidence. They LOVE to tell stories. The trick is to basically ask for citations. I ask for citations to anecdotes all the time, statistical evidence. It's well documented that Asian students perform better in American schools and have higher scores on standarized tests, fyi. The statistical evidence of this has been published to death, the author only tries to explain why... I'm kind of surprised how hostile tl is to this article. I grew up in a sort of free-form parenting environment with lots of babysitters and busy, divorced parents. I feel like the quality of my life went up dramatically when I added some discipline and structure to the way I lived. If it had been there earlier I imagine I would have been better off. I feel like children should be able to choose their interests to a greater degree than the author suggests, but that the pressure to perform should still be present.
There's a difference between the "pressure to perform" (or just discipline in general) and the moron that wrote this article. This woman has no clue what she's doing and many posters in this thread have said it really well - that style of parenting raises someone who will do great throughout school, but will probably end up not only extremely depressed but in a very mediocre job as well - paying well but not really actually doing anything.
|
Can someone in Asian confirm if parents there are similar to those mentioned in the article? Like other people have mentioned, I feel like American-Asian parents are surprisingly much more conservative than strictly Asian parents.
|
While this article certainly takes things into the extremes, there's always the push by Asian parents for their children to succeed. I've seen cases where the method has succeeded and cases where it doesn't; either way, the lifestyle is not as horrible as it sounds in this article. Sure, it may seem harsh but ultimately the child benefits the most and grows up to be a healthy, happy, and generally successful adult.
|
Like I've been saying, it's all about balance balance balance.
Due to the absolutely crappy performance of American schools, how is it even debatable that American kids shouldn't be subjected to more discipline (in the form of stricter parents who force more studying/practice/work out of their kids)?
|
On January 10 2011 13:38 Animostas wrote:
Can someone in Asian confirm if parents there are similar to those mentioned in the article? Like other people have mentioned, I feel like American-Asian parents are surprisingly much more conservative than strictly Asian parents.
I immigrated to the US when I was 6. I am 20 now. My mother raised me the 'chinese' way but it was largely a failure because she was a working mom who couldnt monitor us 24/7. But my mom has grown to understand that the 'chinese' way is wrong now because she believes that America is the better place to live.
Asian-American parents are much more conservative probably because their childhood were not as fruitful. They expect that with such a fruitful and privileged childhood that their kids have, they should have the potential to be successful above and beyond what their (the parents) potential was.
|
I hope some of you realize she's right about the "bluntness" that some Asian parents exhibit. My parents have Chinese expressions basically saying "don't be stupid" or "if you do that, I'd beat you to death" but they don't really MEAN they'd murder their child or they think i'm completely incompetent. I know that because it's in the culture. I lol'd when the western had to leave the dinner table because of that - it really isn't that "bad" as it sounds.
|
The United States has pretty awful education up until university-level(arguably high school is somewhat decent at its higher level with AP and such), but I don't think you could argue that any country has better universities than the US(maybe UK has some good ones, but not as many).
Oddly enough, the university level is where the shortcomings of this system stats to show. Although it is in part from unrelated reasons. It starts to be the level at which children gain independence and a need for more than just studying. That's really when those who don't share their parents' enthusiasm really begin to drop off.
|
On January 10 2011 13:38 Animostas wrote:
Can someone in Asian confirm if parents there are similar to those mentioned in the article? Like other people have mentioned, I feel like American-Asian parents are surprisingly much more conservative than strictly Asian parents.
Yes you are absolutely right, this lady is completely "American".
While I agree that we Chinese emphasize more on the academics, it does not mean we love to abuse our children.
This type of mother exists in all cultures, but you may find more of them in America (Asian communities?)
In general, I found USA more conservative than a lot of East Asian countries (Japan, Korea, China)
|
On January 10 2011 07:21 LilClinkin wrote:
Another study analysed a group of preschool children (I believe these were children living in America) at the age of 4 who were asked to come up with as many uses for a paper clip as possible. On average, the children were able to come up with over 100 uses each. They would also make 'strange' leaps of logic and ask if the paper clip could be the size of a planet or if it was made of cheese. These same children were re-tested IIRC 2 years later, and then 2 years later again. The average amount of uses for a paper clip decreased incrementally at each stage of testing until at the age of 9 the average result was 20. The hypothesis explaining this decline was the education system these children were placed taught them a very strict 'there is one answer to each problem' type of logic. Those children who conformed to this logic are rewarded with the highest grades, creating a positive feed-back loop to stifle creativity and only strive to find the answer the teacher wants.
But what is the average quality of the uses given by the 4 year olds and the 9 year olds?
If someone gives me an answer like "WELL IF THE STAPLER IS THE SIZE OF MY FRIDGE AND MADE OF CHEESE I CAN EAT IT," they're not getting hired by me.
|
On January 10 2011 04:54 MforWW wrote:
Oh, and a last thing.
The whole argument "if you oppress your kid when they're little, they go CRAZY when they go to college!" is totallllll bullshit.
I've known a ton of kids that were "oppressed" by their parents, and while they loosened up a lot, they still NEVER became fuckups, or even close to it.
This whole argument is based on some sort of urban legend. It's just not true.
I personally know two people who actually become complete an utter fuckups after getting into good schools (MIT and Princeton).
The one who went to MIT was practically verbatim raised the way the author of this article says. The only socializing she got to do was at math team meetings (which she did dominate), and in senior year somehow managed to sneak away and hang out with a mutual friend, but was otherwise not allowed out of the house ever. She dropped out sophomore year after becoming a huge club drug user (acid, e, some research chemicals, the usual) and is living with her 29 year old boyfriend.
The thing is, you don't understand the difference between normal strict parenting and the kind of bullshit the writer of this article wants to give. My GF senior year of high school had a 4.67 weighted GPA and will be graduating from Yale in the spring, and I definitely contribute her success throughout highschool at least partially to her parents being pretty strict about her study habits, though honestly I think it's more about expectations than strictness. My parents always expected me to get As and do well in school, and I always have, despite the fact that my only strict guidelines were "don't get written about in the paper" (i.e. in a commit a terrible crime sort of way).
|
On January 10 2011 05:55 mahnini wrote:![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/yWyJR.jpg) being mechanically proficient is not enough. the highest paying jobs in any field is management. management requires social skills and critical / abstract thinking. you can't grind your way into upper management by reading books or practicing drills. asian parents don't realize it but they are setting their children up for a life of mediocrity because they are not arming them with the skills it takes to go beyond mid-level employee. sure, you can live comfortably, but i'd like to think people live with more drive and purpose in mind other than grind school, grind work, and die. at the end of the day the highest you can go is only as high as a worker is allowed to unless you develop a different, more diverse, skill set.
Yes, this statistic completely refers to what I was talking about when I said that Chinese parenting/educational philosophy may produce the best workers, but it doesn't produce enough good leaders.
Another poster asked if all Chinese parents actually living in China really are like this. No, of course not, there are degrees. But it would be accurate to say that the basic philosophical/cultural differences she emphasizes are pretty much completely accurate, though different parents obviously will go to different lengths.
However, that said, I would say that families that actually function like hers are not a very large majority. Barely even a plurality I should say. Because China's massive growth and productivity have to have come from somewhere, and it has come from the current parent-age generation's hard work. Both parents work a 50-70 hour work week in basically every family. And in a surprisingly and depressingly large amount of families (anecdotal evidence but in my experience I'd say around 5-10% of relatively mid to high income families) the parents work in different cities. What this means is that kids are basically raised by their retired grandparents, only see their parents a few hours a week, and oftentimes see one of their parents only once a year or so during Chinese New Year. I have a kid in one class who is being 'taken care of' by his sickly grandmother while his parents work in 2 other cities. Needless to say he's not doing that well.
In short, Chinese parents DO think like the author does, but in practical application not all parents have enough time or energy left over from their jobs to put in the kind of effort she talks about.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
