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On January 10 2011 15:13 DarkwindHK wrote:
Yes you are absolutely right, this lady is completely "American".
While I agree that we Chinese emphasize more on the academics, it does not mean we love to abuse our children.
This type of mother exists in all cultures, but you may find more of them in America (Asian communities?)
In general, I found USA more conservative than a lot of East Asian countries (Japan, Korea, China)
Nowhere in the article does she describe abuse. At worst, she didn't let her child drink water and go to the bathroom for a small amount of time until she was willing to play the song. She's yelling and making threats, which I'm pretty sure every Asian kid can relate to. In fact, in the face of such obstinacy as described in the article, it's hard to imagine an Asian parent not engaging in similar fashion.
For what it's worth, my experience (which is only with Asian-American and Taiwanese parenting) is that Taiwanese parents are stricter than Asian-American parents. In Taiwan, every single kid is forced to attend after-school studies. The pressure to do well in middle school and high school, especially national tests, is immense, far more than what I and my Asian-American peers experienced.
I'm nearing 30, and when I was a teenager, I used to think my parents were stubborn jackasses (I remember my mom yelling at my brother and I during a road trip, simply because we were laughing at something). But, honestly, I don't anticipate raising my own children that differently.
By the way:
![[image loading]](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-EMpadQx4hM/TR0vXpkUahI/AAAAAAAAAZI/xPzTJT8u70w/s1600/hours.png)
That is, I believe, the primary effect of strict Asian parenting. And it's hard to argue with the results, both in the U.S. and in Asia.
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Well, that education pattern, as mentionned before, makes people into perfect tools to use. As far as i know, asian culture has always been modeled with one top, leader, layer and the rest of the people to work without asking questions.
This way of education just amputates one's independency of mind and creativity, and what tool needs any of those caracteristics anyways?
The vast majority of people I know who have been raised that way are usually able to display some quality work and proficiency but none of them is a leader or an innovative person, they always need someone to use their skill or direct them.
Childrens do need boundaries and education, but u gotta find the subtle balance between not giving a sh!t and stealing the soul of ur own children to shape it like it was yours to use.
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On January 10 2011 15:57 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 15:13 DarkwindHK wrote:
Yes you are absolutely right, this lady is completely "American".
While I agree that we Chinese emphasize more on the academics, it does not mean we love to abuse our children.
This type of mother exists in all cultures, but you may find more of them in America (Asian communities?)
In general, I found USA more conservative than a lot of East Asian countries (Japan, Korea, China) Nowhere in the article does she describe abuse. At worst, she didn't let her child drink water and go to the bathroom for a small amount of time until she was willing to play the song. She's yelling and making threats, which I'm pretty sure every Asian kid can relate to. In fact, in the face of such obstinacy as described in the article, it's hard to imagine an Asian parent not engaging in similar fashion. For what it's worth, my experience (which is only with Asian-American and Taiwanese parenting) is that Taiwanese parents are stricter than Asian-American parents. In Taiwan, every single kid is forced to attend after-school studies. The pressure to do well in middle school and high school, especially national tests, is immense, far more than what I and my Asian-American peers experienced. I'm nearing 30, and when I was a teenager, I used to think my parents were stubborn jackasses (I remember my mom yelling at my brother and I during a road trip, simply because we were laughing at something). But, honestly, I don't anticipate raising my own children that differently. By the way: That is, I believe, the primary effect of strict Asian parenting. And it's hard to argue with the results, both in the U.S. and in Asia.
There is a fundamental problem with your argumentation - academic success and behaviorisms create the bureaucratic mind: excellent at complying to regulations and strict procedures as determined by their superiors. After all, that is all that kids have to do during school and college/university. This sort of mind works well in the government areas: government/academic industry, government institutions.
In the market sphere however, where regulations by superiors dont other than a single one: to maximize the difference between money costs of labour and sales revenue, those virtues are nearly useless. Completely different mindset, that of innovation, emotional intelligence of consumer enjoyment preferences, is necessary.
The fact of the matter is, for the productive part of society, the growth of the strict academic mentality and the means used for it is virtually useless in fulfilling the goals of their employment.
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Rubbish article, rubbish parenting. A traitor to the asian race too (by marrying a white man and raising halfies, so much for "chinese" parenting).
edit: to elaborate, I can sense that she is quite pretentious. She thinks she "gets" the Asian parenting, while also being "American" enough to see the other side. In truth, she has only caught on the superficial side (strict regime, punishment etc) of Asian parenting because she is too americanized. I know these types. Extremely opportunistic above-average intelligence Asian females who marry white guys and think they have the best of two worlds. Often, they end up losing both, but they don't know about it (or won't recognize it because of their arrogance).
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On January 10 2011 17:36 phosphorylation wrote:
Rubbish article, rubbish parenting. A traitor to the asian race too (by marrying a white man and raising halfies, so much for "chinese" parenting).
edit: to elaborate, I can sense that she is quite pretentious. She thinks she "gets" the Asian parenting, while also being "American" enough to see the other side. In truth, she has only caught on the superficial side (strict regime, punishment etc) of Asian parenting because she is too americanized. I know these types. Extremely opportunistic above-average intelligence Asian females who marry white guys and think they have the best of two worlds. Often, they end up losing both, but they don't know about it (or won't recognize it because of their arrogance).
halfies are awesome your just arrogant and dumb
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Pretty shocking article, it's disappointing to see such veneration of parenting that values success over happiness.
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Oh my this lady, LOL. Her teaching methods sounds like something a uneducated village women would do. Some parts are correct while others are wrong. What village women like her doesn't understand is that rich asian families often excel because they can get the school teachers to come to their home and teach their child as well as being around other talented children. The teachers doesn't have to torture the child, they explain it better. While the contrast between asian and western child education are extremely different. This Chinese lady's method of teaching compared with more successful asians are crude and inefficient.
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United States24756 Posts
On January 10 2011 14:57 Lightwip wrote:
The United States has pretty awful education up until university-level(arguably high school is somewhat decent at its higher level with AP and such), but I don't think you could argue that any country has better universities than the US(maybe UK has some good ones, but not as many). I don't get why so many people say such extreme things like this. I can't speak for Lightwip but most don't actually have a decent justification for it.
Also among people who are in the know I usually hear that our schools become worse as kids get older (relative to the international norm), not the other way around...
Why are AP classes 'better'? Do you measure how good school is by how difficult the classes are? I don't get it.
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On January 10 2011 20:21 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 14:57 Lightwip wrote:
The United States has pretty awful education up until university-level(arguably high school is somewhat decent at its higher level with AP and such), but I don't think you could argue that any country has better universities than the US(maybe UK has some good ones, but not as many). I don't get why so many people say such extreme things like this. I can't speak for Lightwip but most don't actually have a decent justification for it. Also among people who are in the know I usually hear that our schools become worse as kids get older (relative to the international norm), not the other way around... Why are AP classes 'better'? Do you measure how good school is by how difficult the classes are? I don't get it.
Basing education off the 10% that may excel at school? Becuase the median would be alone to what you were describing micronesia. He must be counting middle eastern as white kids too :D
I graduated out of a class of 900 ish we started with like 1300 for my class and roughly 200ish dropped out 200ish failed to grad on time. such a long time ago hard to remember.
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All that work for no reason. Success and character are not dependant on upbringing, harsh or mild. Oh well.
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an opposite article could be written focusing on how much freedom a child is granted and how their creativity is nurtured and then strict parenting being blindly criticized.
pretty bad article.
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On January 10 2011 17:29 xarthaz wrote:
There is a fundamental problem with your argumentation - academic success and behaviorisms create the bureaucratic mind: excellent at complying to regulations and strict procedures as determined by their superiors. After all, that is all that kids have to do during school and college/university. This sort of mind works well in the government areas: government/academic industry, government institutions.
In the market sphere however, where regulations by superiors dont other than a single one: to maximize the difference between money costs of labour and sales revenue, those virtues are nearly useless. Completely different mindset, that of innovation, emotional intelligence of consumer enjoyment preferences, is necessary.
The fact of the matter is, for the productive part of society, the growth of the strict academic mentality and the means used for it is virtually useless in fulfilling the goals of their employment.
Academic success has a very strong correlation with career success. Please stop spreading the borderline racist lie that Asian parenting is only good at creating mindless automotons. The smartest Asians succeed at engineering, medicine, and other "hard science" careers. Those are exactly the kind of careers that require innovation and creativity.
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On January 10 2011 15:57 domovoi wrote:
Nowhere in the article does she describe abuse. At worst, she didn't let her child drink water and go to the bathroom for a small amount of time until she was willing to play the song.
How is not letting your child go to the bathroom not abuse? I really wonder where you draw the line.
Telling them to stop being pathetic is also pretty bad, especially if it goes on regularly and isn't just a one time incident.
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On January 10 2011 21:02 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 17:29 xarthaz wrote:
There is a fundamental problem with your argumentation - academic success and behaviorisms create the bureaucratic mind: excellent at complying to regulations and strict procedures as determined by their superiors. After all, that is all that kids have to do during school and college/university. This sort of mind works well in the government areas: government/academic industry, government institutions.
In the market sphere however, where regulations by superiors dont other than a single one: to maximize the difference between money costs of labour and sales revenue, those virtues are nearly useless. Completely different mindset, that of innovation, emotional intelligence of consumer enjoyment preferences, is necessary.
The fact of the matter is, for the productive part of society, the growth of the strict academic mentality and the means used for it is virtually useless in fulfilling the goals of their employment. Academic success has a very strong correlation with career success. Please stop spreading the borderline racist lie that Asian parenting is only good at creating mindless automotons. The smartest Asians succeed at engineering, medicine, and other "hard science" careers. Those are exactly the kind of careers that require innovation and creativity.
Yes, because academic success and career success both correlate with IQ.
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This article, while it contains some inaccuracies I think deserves way more credit than most people are giving it.
As an adult now I only wished my parents were this stereotypically strict. Children don't want to work and will for the most part take the easy route. Many of these children grow up into lazy entitled adults that are like cancer to the world. I wished I would have been forced to play piano for hours on end instead of playing video games. If they forced me to do this as a child I would be completely pissed and probably hate them. As my maturity grew however I'd love them for it and be eternally grateful.
I think the ideal parenting technique is somewhere in the middle. American parents are generally not strict enough and there are a lot of terrible results because of it. Except for specific genetic conditions, children should not be overweight. Any fat kid is the result of an abusive parent that should not be allowed to have any more kids. I think this physical conditioning should be part of the well-rounded curriculum every parent should teach their child.
This would include:
- Formal Education (Math, Science, English)
- Foreign Language (Every child should be taught 1 foreign language while growing up)
- Music (Any respectable instrument will do, but start early)
- Interpersonal skills (Teach them leadership and communication skills)
- Health (Eating a healthy diet and exercising regularly)
- Finance (Most parents don't teach their children ANYTHING about money because they don't know how to manage it themselves)
A child that has all of the above skills will become a well-rounded, successful adult. I think the "you're fine just the way you are" mentality breeds mediocrity and stifles innovation.
Anything is more fun if you're really good at it. I'm sure most kids wouldn't find chess "fun" but take a look at Judit Polgár. She was raised by parents with the number 1 priority to make her a chess prodigy. She is now unarguably the best female chess player in the world. Sacrificing a bit of "childhood" to ensure you enjoy the rest of your life seems desirable.
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As a child raised VERY strictly, I can definitely relate. And while my childhood was, tbh, not that amazing, and while in some ways i suffered/still suffer socially, looking back on it now at age 25....i don't know how much of it i would change if I had the chance.
The sad thing is, my parents were quite poor, and so although I learned a lot, they never could afford things like music lessons and such, and definitely couldn't afford college, so as of now it hasn't "paid" off as much as it could have for me financially, although i do make quite a bit more than what the average person my age makes. And yes, looking back i could have gone through/paid for college myself, but for some reason....that was just never "me", and my parents never really pushed it hard for some reason. Maybe they felt bad because they couldn't provide it.
In any case, the most important thing they pushed was work ethic, and in that respect they really succeeded. I have a good job that I worked hard for. I play several musical instruments with a reasonable degree of proficiency. I went through a trade school, and pretty much dominated the top of the class all 4 years I was there. I do what I want to do for the most part.
But the thing is, they also taught me character and how to live, and so now that I am on my own, I don't really drink(not going to say I never, but I only rarely do), never did any drugs, use my money wisely, constantly try to improve myself, work hard, have fun, etc, etc. I'm not going to say my childhood was perfect, I really could have used more social interaction, but that wasn't totally their fault, we lived in a weird area.
And saying all this...i'm not trying to brag on myself. My parents made me who i am for the most part, and I greatly appreciate all the hard work they did for me.
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On January 10 2011 20:21 micronesia wrote:
Why are AP classes 'better'? Do you measure how good school is by how difficult the classes are? I don't get it.
Because they are meant to be university-level. But you could also argue that they fail to do this. I think they only perform what they are supposed to do to a pretty limited extent.
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Its a cultural thing, its called Confucius-ism.
Maybe one can write an article on how American parents raise more religiously/spiritually successful children.
How many American Children are forced to goto Church on Sundays and say grace before a meal compared to China?
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I just had an epiphany.
Notice how she is complaining about her husband being not strict enough in parenting? I think she may have married the wrong person. Perhaps if she married an Asian husband who shares her way of parenting, she would have a much easier time with her children by sharing the work with her husband.
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On January 09 2011 09:07 Half wrote:
This Article is a joke. Do you think an Asian parent would have fostered Mark Zucklebergs odd interests in computers, before the dotcom boom of the 2000s? That an asian parent would have allowed Bill Gates to drop out of College? No they wouldn't have, and now there children call these men boss.
Exactly!! I'm Chinese, and I totally disagree with the focus of "Chinese" mothers on force feeding the children with academic stuff. The child will never be as good as one who is genuinely interested in the subject. Besides, creativity, innovative potential and EQ are far more important than pure academic knowledge from rote learning. Granted, getting As are very important, but you don't have to get straight As in college, only in grade school/high school so that you can get into the best universities.
Besides, a person's success in life shouldn't be gauged by his GPA, but gauged by the quality and quantity of the resources under his control, AKA the size of his wallet, the assets he controls, a healthy and happy family, good friends etc.
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EPT
