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On January 09 2011 12:24 mIniAtURe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 12:12 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 09 2011 12:10 mIniAtURe wrote:On January 09 2011 12:07 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 09 2011 12:04 mIniAtURe wrote:
Fixing lacking social skills is much easier than breeding intelligence. My parents are Chinese, and they've been hands-off and impersonal; however, when I look around at other college students, there are those more dedicated, hard-working, and intelligent. How am I supposed to catch up?
Studying and socializing are two skills crucial to success, and I can agree that both are necessary to live a proper life. But don't you think it's easier to practice socializing when you're in college than to practice studying all over again? Right now (as a high school "failure"), I'm trying as hard as I can to study; it takes hard work and dedication, both of which I must generate without parents breathing down my throat. Where's the motivation? I'd gladly sacrifice 15 years of childhood and "social skills" for those studying habits now, where I would have a lot more fun learning socialization rather than studying. I'm positive most human being don't have the dedication to relearn learning. white parents aren't neglectful; their approach is simply more supportive than manipulative. neglect != hands-off approach im pretty convinced white parents have the best balance of social life and academia. i mean it's not like they're fine with Cs and Ds either. White parents let you (the child) decide what you want to do or not. Do you really believe a teenager can make a good, unbiased decision about what's better for them than the 40 year old parents who have lived through childhood? Making decisions for kids isn't the worst thing in the world, only because we live in America and believe in human rights (even for children..........). Did I use neglect? no but you implied it. and i still think you're underestimating how involved good white parents are, they definitely don't let their kids make every decision. I didn't talk about White parenting, let alone criticize it.
You wrote:
White parents let you (the child) decide what you want to do or not. Do you really believe a teenager can make a good, unbiased decision about what's better for them than the 40 year old parents who have lived through childhood?
i'm sorry, do you have dissociative identity disorder? if so, my sincerest condolences.
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On January 09 2011 12:24 worthawholephan wrote:As a follow-up to my previous post, let me copy-and-paste the title of the article here: Yep. Not "Why the Chinese Method of Parenting Is Superior," but "Why Chinese Mothers are Superior." Not "Why Chinese Mothers are Superior Parents," but why they are "Superior." In other words, "Why I Am Superior." Does this come across as racist to anyone else?
I wrote that in my commentary.
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On January 09 2011 12:26 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 12:24 mIniAtURe wrote:On January 09 2011 12:12 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 09 2011 12:10 mIniAtURe wrote:On January 09 2011 12:07 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 09 2011 12:04 mIniAtURe wrote:
Fixing lacking social skills is much easier than breeding intelligence. My parents are Chinese, and they've been hands-off and impersonal; however, when I look around at other college students, there are those more dedicated, hard-working, and intelligent. How am I supposed to catch up?
Studying and socializing are two skills crucial to success, and I can agree that both are necessary to live a proper life. But don't you think it's easier to practice socializing when you're in college than to practice studying all over again? Right now (as a high school "failure"), I'm trying as hard as I can to study; it takes hard work and dedication, both of which I must generate without parents breathing down my throat. Where's the motivation? I'd gladly sacrifice 15 years of childhood and "social skills" for those studying habits now, where I would have a lot more fun learning socialization rather than studying. I'm positive most human being don't have the dedication to relearn learning. white parents aren't neglectful; their approach is simply more supportive than manipulative. neglect != hands-off approach im pretty convinced white parents have the best balance of social life and academia. i mean it's not like they're fine with Cs and Ds either. White parents let you (the child) decide what you want to do or not. Do you really believe a teenager can make a good, unbiased decision about what's better for them than the 40 year old parents who have lived through childhood? Making decisions for kids isn't the worst thing in the world, only because we live in America and believe in human rights (even for children..........). Did I use neglect? no but you implied it. and i still think you're underestimating how involved good white parents are, they definitely don't let their kids make every decision. I didn't talk about White parenting, let alone criticize it. Show nested quote +You wrote:
White parents let you (the child) decide what you want to do or not. Do you really believe a teenager can make a good, unbiased decision about what's better for them than the 40 year old parents who have lived through childhood? i'm sorry, do you have dissociative identity disorder? if so, my sincerest condolences.
I'm sorry I made a mistake, can you read the rest of the post and understand the idea, rather than criticizing me? I meant the style of White parenting in general.
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On January 09 2011 12:28 mIniAtURe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 12:26 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 09 2011 12:24 mIniAtURe wrote:On January 09 2011 12:12 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 09 2011 12:10 mIniAtURe wrote:On January 09 2011 12:07 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 09 2011 12:04 mIniAtURe wrote:
Fixing lacking social skills is much easier than breeding intelligence. My parents are Chinese, and they've been hands-off and impersonal; however, when I look around at other college students, there are those more dedicated, hard-working, and intelligent. How am I supposed to catch up?
Studying and socializing are two skills crucial to success, and I can agree that both are necessary to live a proper life. But don't you think it's easier to practice socializing when you're in college than to practice studying all over again? Right now (as a high school "failure"), I'm trying as hard as I can to study; it takes hard work and dedication, both of which I must generate without parents breathing down my throat. Where's the motivation? I'd gladly sacrifice 15 years of childhood and "social skills" for those studying habits now, where I would have a lot more fun learning socialization rather than studying. I'm positive most human being don't have the dedication to relearn learning. white parents aren't neglectful; their approach is simply more supportive than manipulative. neglect != hands-off approach im pretty convinced white parents have the best balance of social life and academia. i mean it's not like they're fine with Cs and Ds either. White parents let you (the child) decide what you want to do or not. Do you really believe a teenager can make a good, unbiased decision about what's better for them than the 40 year old parents who have lived through childhood? Making decisions for kids isn't the worst thing in the world, only because we live in America and believe in human rights (even for children..........). Did I use neglect? no but you implied it. and i still think you're underestimating how involved good white parents are, they definitely don't let their kids make every decision. I didn't talk about White parenting, let alone criticize it. You wrote:
White parents let you (the child) decide what you want to do or not. Do you really believe a teenager can make a good, unbiased decision about what's better for them than the 40 year old parents who have lived through childhood? i'm sorry, do you have dissociative identity disorder? if so, my sincerest condolences. I'm sorry I made a mistake, can you read the rest of the post and understand the idea, rather than criticizing me? I meant the style of White parenting in general.
No, because I don't understand where your mistake was. please restate your idea clearly and without contradiction.
edit: Actually I reread that post and I do understand your point, "only innately intelligent kids tend to benefit from the crazychinese style, whereas average kids benefit most from a balanced, 'white' style." I agree with that. I still don't understand why you first said that 'white parents let you do what you want'? What did you mean to say?
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I'm actually curious to know, out of all the Asian people who are posting that this is simply a wrong ideal and is slavery, etc., how many of you were born in America or came to America at a significantly young age?
Because if you were, because of American values being engrained into your everyday life, I would say that your opinions are hard to take from a "Chinese" perspective.
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Fixing lacking social skills is much easier than breeding intelligence. My parents are Chinese, and they've been hands-off and impersonal; however, when I look around at other college students, there are those more dedicated, hard-working, and intelligent. How am I supposed to catch up?
Studying and socializing are two skills crucial to success, and I can agree that both are necessary to live a proper life. But don't you think it's easier to practice socializing when you're in college than to practice studying all over again? Right now (as a high school "failure"), I'm trying as hard as I can to study; it takes hard work and dedication, both of which I must generate without parents breathing down my throat. Where's the motivation? I'd gladly sacrifice 15 years of childhood and "social skills" for those studying habits now, where I would have a lot more fun learning socialization rather than studying. I'm positive most human being don't have the dedication to relearn learning.
White parenting lets you (the child) decide what you want to do or not. Do you really believe a teenager can make a good, unbiased decision about what's better for them than the 40 year old parents who have lived through childhood?
The article is obviously extreme, but the underlying idea still exists. Optimally, you would preach hard work and ethics, and then educate children in social interaction, when intelligence in a field becomes more area-specific. This is more efficient because hard work and ethics are easier to teach to a 5 year old than an 18 year old.
Edit: I mean having a crazy asian lady as your mother making decisions that will benefit your future success for you is much easier than your parents letting you screw up and having to fix it all yourself.
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I have always thought that this upbringing style was more for parental kudos than the child, the focus seems to be on the mother having something to brag about - whether it be in the child's immediate future or their long term goals.
Everything is decided for the child, and whilst I realise that children can't make objective and long-term assessments of what they want to do, forcing an average or un-talented child to do something skill-based and deriding them for failure seems really cruel to me.
Not everything can be brute-forced with hours of intesive work.
I know a friend of mine who grew up in a chinese household and ended up dropping out of school, and his father hasn't spoken to him for years...
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i agree with 25%of this article, and parents are a big factor in the child's success. personally i m very thankful to my parents for raising me (in india) by what would be considered child abuse LOL but comon westerner kids need a little beating most of em are bratz and wankers :D however even though parents intend good for their child, their kinda taking the fun outta life of their children and turning em into robots. My stance is the best thing would be something in the middle of western culture and eastern culture, kinda like how i grew up. my parents are strict but they lemme have all the fun i want.
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I came to America when I was 6. My parents are full-blooded Chinese and they still have their cultural roots from China and its associated "Chinese" parenting.
The article is wrong. I am passionately against it. You can be smartest person in the world because of your parents but you will not be anyone who will push civilization and mankind a step forward because of your lack of creativity.
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I grew up in an area with a ton of middle class Asian families, and I can definitely say that it mainly is from this demographic that you get the stereotypical "Asian parents." Consequently, my high school had an extreme amount of academic competition and even cheating since there were so many kids of middle class Asians in attendance. On one hand, the high schools in my area usually did quite well at academic and orchestral competitions. On the other hand, GPA was so highly sought after that a lot of bright kids often got left in the dust because there were just so many Asians fighting tooth and nail for every point in their grades.
Fortunately, living in this environment accustomed me to working hard to remain competitive, though it was often a very frustrating experience. On one hand, I know many former students that attended good colleges and ended up in successful careers. However, I also know some Asian classmates and friends who completely cracked under extreme parental pressure and are now scraping by under the influence of depression and drugs. It's quite unfortunate.
I find parental pressures to be a double edged sword. It encourages success, but often at the expense of the child. If the balance is maintained well, the kid can be successful and happy, but it is very unfortunate to see that this is sometimes not the case.
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On January 09 2011 12:32 kethers wrote:
I'm actually curious to know, out of all the Asian people who are posting that this is simply a wrong ideal and is slavery, etc., how many of you were born in America or came to America at a significantly young age?
Because if you were, because of American values being engrained into your everyday life, I would say that your opinions are hard to take from a "Chinese" perspective.
The article refers to the Chinese style in an Western environment. To imply that the Chinese perspective somehow reveals some hidden approach to "succeeding" in a Western setting is arrogant and false. That's the point. We understand that the Chinese approach can work in China, we're just ranting on why it doesnt work in the West.
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On January 09 2011 12:35 fearlessparagon wrote:
I came to America when I was 6. My parents are full-blooded Chinese and they still have their cultural roots from China and its associated "Chinese" parenting.
The article is wrong. I am passionately against it. You can be smartest person in the world because of your parents but you will not be anyone who will push civilization and mankind a step forward because of your lack of creativity.
There is hardly any reason to call someone with lack of creativity "smart."
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On January 09 2011 12:38 worthawholephan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 12:35 fearlessparagon wrote:
I came to America when I was 6. My parents are full-blooded Chinese and they still have their cultural roots from China and its associated "Chinese" parenting.
The article is wrong. I am passionately against it. You can be smartest person in the world because of your parents but you will not be anyone who will push civilization and mankind a step forward because of your lack of creativity. There is hardly any reason to call someone with lack of creativity "smart."
Also, not all smart people lack creativity.
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On January 09 2011 12:33 mIniAtURe wrote:
Edit: I mean having a crazy asian lady as your mother making decisions that will benefit your future success for you is much easier than your parents letting you screw up and having to fix it all yourself.
I agree, and the beauty of the Western approach to parenting is that through the hardship of screwing up and fixing it all (with parental support), you learn a lot more about learning from failure and knowing your limits and persistence.
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On January 09 2011 12:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 12:33 mIniAtURe wrote:
Edit: I mean having a crazy asian lady as your mother making decisions that will benefit your future success for you is much easier than your parents letting you screw up and having to fix it all yourself. I agree, and the beauty of the Western approach to parenting is that through the hardship of screwing up and fixing it all (with parental support), you learn a lot more about learning from failure and knowing your limits and persistence.
That's definitely true, but I'm arguing that you can learn about failure and knowing your limits and persistence without the actual failure, which is what Chinese parenting is all about. >_<
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Imo asian parents should apply one of the most important parts of their philosophy here: Balance
not giving a shit about parenting and the childrens work ethic and stuff can make the kids into depressed drug addicts just like being too strict and taking away the childhood from them.
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On January 09 2011 12:41 mIniAtURe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 12:40 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On January 09 2011 12:33 mIniAtURe wrote:
Edit: I mean having a crazy asian lady as your mother making decisions that will benefit your future success for you is much easier than your parents letting you screw up and having to fix it all yourself. I agree, and the beauty of the Western approach to parenting is that through the hardship of screwing up and fixing it all (with parental support), you learn a lot more about learning from failure and knowing your limits and persistence. That's definitely true, but I'm arguing that you can learn about failure and knowing your limits and persistence without the actual failure >_<
Well ideally you'd have learned all of that before reaching college; and ideally they'd have provided enough support such that it wasn't a terrible experience. My argument still stands: good Western parenting gives children both freedom and guidance, and it shouldn't be mostly on the child to figure everything out. But only parents with the perspective of growing up in the West can really understand how to guide well in every part of the process, whereas Chinese parents tend to care only about results.
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On January 09 2011 12:38 worthawholephan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 12:35 fearlessparagon wrote:
I came to America when I was 6. My parents are full-blooded Chinese and they still have their cultural roots from China and its associated "Chinese" parenting.
The article is wrong. I am passionately against it. You can be smartest person in the world because of your parents but you will not be anyone who will push civilization and mankind a step forward because of your lack of creativity. There is hardly any reason to call someone with lack of creativity "smart."
You are right. The individuals who are brought up of that "Chinese" upbringing are never really smart. I am glad that many people in this thread share the same views as I do.
Asians are usually the number crunchers or the automated machines in a company. They never lack the leadership skills to become CEO. It is because the "Chinese" way of parenting deprive their kids of any charisma, personality, and creativity.
Quite frankly, this is also one of the reasons why Asian girls go for men of other races, while you seldom see Asian men dating interracialy.
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On January 09 2011 12:42 MuR)Ernu wrote:
Imo asian parents should apply one of the most important parts of their philosophy here: Balance
not giving a shit about parenting and the childrens work ethic and stuff can make the kids into depressed drug addicts just like being too strict and taking away the childhood from them.
I had my childhood taken away to a degree, honestly I still love my parents but sometimes I wish that they could be a little less uptight about everything.
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I live in a largely predominately Chinese country with a majority being Asians and I can safely say that the woman knows next to nothing about Asian culture. No offense to the Philippinos but if she grew up in the Philippines, she probably has next to no Chinese roots at all. Seriously, the only thing Chinese about her is her surname.
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EPT
