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On December 08 2010 19:56 BruceLee6783 wrote:To the OP, I notice that you said you were an undergraduate at an Ivy league school here. But, it seems to me that you're heavily biased against the country you reside in, and I'm perfectly aware that you may not have said such, but it's obvious to me in the underlying parts of your posts, and your haste to disagree with anyone posting against you, that you admire China so much for their advancement. If you're so impressed, I'd suggest you leave the US and go live in China. See if the grass is greener, and ask yourself if it's everything you hoped it would be. I agree with some of the (much) earlier posts about the USA's military, being much stronger than any other nation's, aside from nuclear warheads ending the world as we know it. Think back to WW2... Germany was taking over Europe, the English were putting up a fight, the USA was hesitant to get involved, and Japan took over all of southeast Asia in a VERY short period of time shortly before deciding to bomb Pearl Harbor. Japan must have had something really good going for them if they were able to conquer southeast Asia (including China) so quickly and efficiently. But when the USA said, "Fuck this" Japan got bombed to hell and back, especially after the atomic bombs were dropped. Surrendering wasn't something the Japanese were proud of, since they'd rather Kamikaze their own planes into US ships out of spite, but there was literally nothing left of Japan, so they had no choice but to surrender. The only reason Japan is what it is today, is because of what the US gave them back after the war. The point is, I have a lot of faith in my country and I truly do not believe the US will just sit back and lose everything that our country has worked so hard for in the past, regardless of whatever statistics you may try to present me with. The US military, with all its muscle, could potentially be used to regain economic footing in the form of invasion of other countries. Do not presume that the US will just sit idly by, and let itself lose its position as the world's super power. I think we should focus on why so many people on this forum seem to consider the US as "lazy and complacent". What do you honestly believe caused us to become lazy? If I had to venture a guess, I'd say that we worked extremely hard to make this country what it is, the hard work payed off, and we simply enjoyed the fruits of our labors for so long that we got used to it, and maybe that's why we don't want to work anymore. But I could be wrong. 
You should apologize. Saying, "Go to another country if you don't like it here," is offensive as hell and provides absolutely nothing to the discourse.
Refute people on points but don't try to define their position or tell them what to do. Those are basic tenets of civil discussion.
It's also sad to me that that you think any critic should leave the country. In fact, it's you who sullies and disgraces the legacy of what America as a nation was supposed to stand for. Maybe you should take some time to read the history of your country that you're so keen on telling other people to leave.
Reading the rest of your post makes me wonder if it might not just be some type of sick parody of how mainstream Americans thinks, or if you genuinely believe what you're saying. If you genuinely do believe it, I can only advise that you spend more time reading real history and less time absorbing US propaganda and rhetoric.
Your usage of we and us doesn't make sense either. There is no concept of WE in the USA. There is only the concept of me, myself, and I. This nation doesn't in any way, shape, or form work as a unified whole. It's more of a patchwork clusterfuck of corporatist interests, union coalitions, and private equity funds siphoning off as many tax dollars as they can while bleeding the populace dry. It is exactly your mentality and your ignorance towards the condition of your nation that leads so many to call Americans complacent, ignorant, and lazy. Not lazy in the sense that you guys won't work a 9 to 5, but lazy in the sense that you don't stop to look around for a second and realize what is going on in the political and economic theaters of your country. You just keep trudging on, eating the lies that are fed to you about US exceptionalism and telling yourself that if all else fails the USA can just beat someone up to make everything better. If you want to be a true patriot, you should spend more time thinking about how to help your country improve, rather than just keep insisting that it's fking awesome and you'll kick out or beat up anyone who disagrees. It's exactly this kind of bullshit that makes so many of the intellectuals in America just want to gtfo.
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On December 09 2010 03:21 StorkHwaiting wrote:
I'm sorry rflcrx, but I don't understand what you're saying. Could you provide some actual concrete examples of major Chinese/Islam issues? Last I checked, The Battle of Talas Field was the first and only time a Chinese and Arab-Islam army met in battle.
Armies in battle are not the only touching points/issues.
On December 09 2010 03:21 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Yes, China has had extensive peaceful contact with the Muslim world, and there are a good number of Chinese Muslims (Xi'an being an example), but there is ZERO historical context or precedent for the type of animosity comparable to Christianity/Islam.
Well I have to ask you the same thing: Please provide some concrete examples. China has contact with the Islam for over 1400 Years. How is it even possible to talk about zero historical context with such a long history? What about the all the problems this contact had created? For example the fact that China has State atheism? What about the cultural revolution, where alot of Qurans were burned and muslims were persecuted? What about the fact that Kashgar's Old Town was destroyed (including mosques if I am not mistaken)? What about the Ma family, who played an important role in chinese history? What about the fact that prototurks settled in north and northwest China and changed chinese society during their assimilation or sinicization? What about neighbouring states like Kazakhstan or Kyrgyzstan where Islam is the dominanted religion? And the fact that China is seeking more and more influence (critics might call this imperialism) in those countries? All this you call "zero" because only one battle has occurred? Please explain and elaborated, because I don't see it at all.
On December 09 2010 03:21 StorkHwaiting wrote:
If you can somehow prove how this is "by no means true," I would love to hear it. As it is, you're making wild predictions about the future with almost nothing to back it.
They are by no means wild. I don't see how China can stay neutral forever if it keeps trading (arms for example) with everybody.Do you really think you can have excellent business relations with Iran without pissing people off (I am not talking about the United States)? Stopping or hindering muslims in China (by restricting mosque building for example) will not generate hate towards China? Persecuting Uyghur won't create problems with the islamic world? I would call this prediction pretty wild, but if you can back it up, please do so.
On December 09 2010 03:21 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Further, your example of Africa has nothing to do with Islamic fundamentalism. It has to do with basic economic conflict. Africans feel that Chinese are stealing their jobs.
You are oversimplifying the issue. This is not limited to "stealing jobs", cultural imperialism as well as racism are a big factor as well (I would assume that africans know that africans in China are threatet like second class humans). The entire issue creates alot of prejudice which is of course easily exploitable by religious fanatics.
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On December 09 2010 01:32 Adaptation wrote:
One thing you most not forget at all times.
- mcdonalds and other likes(pepsi, coke,etc) will exist and keep america as a major player. Maybe not as big as china, but it will stay.
- the cultural aspect is often overviewed for straight $$$. How many big chinese movies get exported here? Not a whole lot, while Hollywood movies are still over the planet.
Culturally speaking the US won, american culture and language are entrenched in all areas of knowledge and in all corners of the globe, but it doesnt mean much, look at greece for instance, they certainly had a cultura victory, and are a normal country today
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On December 09 2010 05:43 StorkHwaiting wrote:
You should apologize. Saying, "Go to another country if you don't like it here," is offensive as hell and provides absolutely nothing to the discourse.
Refute people on points but don't try to define their position or tell them what to do. Those are basic tenets of civil discussion.
"You should apologize". Well sir, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm afraid you just made a hypocrite of yourself by telling me to not tell people what to do, then turning around and telling me to apologize.
Besides, my comment to the OP about moving to China was a suggestion. It was never meant to offend him, let alone anyone else. That includes you. He/She doesn't need you to get offended for them, so please let the OP make that decision for him/herself, especially since my comments were aimed at him/her.
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On December 09 2010 04:00 Rflcrx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 03:21 StorkHwaiting wrote:
I'm sorry rflcrx, but I don't understand what you're saying. Could you provide some actual concrete examples of major Chinese/Islam issues? Last I checked, The Battle of Talas Field was the first and only time a Chinese and Arab-Islam army met in battle.
Armies in battle are not the only touching points/issues. Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 03:21 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Yes, China has had extensive peaceful contact with the Muslim world, and there are a good number of Chinese Muslims (Xi'an being an example), but there is ZERO historical context or precedent for the type of animosity comparable to Christianity/Islam.
Well I have to ask you the same thing: Please provide some concrete examples. China has contact with the Islam for over 1400 Years. How is it even possible to talk about zero historical context with such a long history? What about the all the problems this contact had created? For example the fact that China has State atheism? What about the cultural revolution, where alot of Qurans were burned and muslims were persecuted? What about the fact that Kashgar's Old Town was destroyed (including mosques if I am not mistaken)? What about the Ma family, who played an important role in chinese history? What about the fact that prototurks settled in north and northwest China and changed chinese society during their assimilation or sinicization? What about neighbouring states like Kazakhstan or Kyrgyzstan where Islam is the dominanted religion? And the fact that China is seeking more and more influence (critics might call this imperialism) in those countries? All this you call "zero" because only one battle has occurred? Please explain and elaborated, because I don't see it at all. Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 03:21 StorkHwaiting wrote:
If you can somehow prove how this is "by no means true," I would love to hear it. As it is, you're making wild predictions about the future with almost nothing to back it.
They are by no means wild. I don't see how China can stay neutral forever if it keeps trading (arms for example) with everybody.Do you really think you can have excellent business relations with Iran without pissing people off (I am not talking about the United States)? Stopping or hindering muslims in China (by restricting mosque building for example) will not generate hate towards China? Persecuting Uyghur won't create problems with the islamic world? I would call this prediction pretty wild, but if you can back it up, please do so. Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 03:21 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Further, your example of Africa has nothing to do with Islamic fundamentalism. It has to do with basic economic conflict. Africans feel that Chinese are stealing their jobs.
You are oversimplifying the issue. This is not limited to "stealing jobs", cultural imperialism as well as racism are a big factor as well (I would assume that africans know that africans in China are threatet like second class humans). The entire issue creates alot of prejudice which is of course easily exploitable by religious fanatics.
Explain the part where any of the things you mentioned holds even a candle to the enmity that Christianity and Islam has had over the centuries. I don't think you understand what you're trying to claim here. You're saying China's state atheism (which does not single out any one religion) is on a comparable level to Christian/Islam hostility? I am extremely skeptical of fundamentalist rhetoric holding up in any hypothetical Sino-Islamic conflict. I didn't say China and Islam have never met. I said, there is ZERO context between China and Islam that is remotely comparable to that of the bloodstained history between Christianity and Islam. Do you understand what I'm trying to say now? It doesn't Compare. Not that it doesn't exist.
And yeah, you can have business relations with Iran without pissing off the rest of the world. Hope you're aware the EU and Russia both do business with Iran. EU was also doing quite a bit of business with Iraq when the USA invaded. Specifically France. Hence a lot of the outrage in the EU at the onset of the war.
Stopping or hindering Muslims in China will not have much affect. Al-Qaeda has already tried to support the Uighur movement in the northwest and tried to incite unrest. It has not been very effective. I think you fail to understand the Islamic fundamentalist movement. It's not a unified body that is sweeping the globe and swallowing up countries. It relies on local unrest and a local base of support. While the Uighurs are not that happy, their insurgency does not come anywhere close to the scale of the Afghanis or the Iraqis. Again, you are not seeing that there is a huge degree of difference between these regions. You seem to think that as long as it involves Muslims who are unhappy, that it's absolutely the same and its inevitable that anywhere there is an unhappy Muslim there will be some huge tide of fundamentalist guerrilla warfare. This is why I think your predictions are outlandish.
...And then you're claiming Chinese cultural imperialism in Africa?! Now I know you're just trying to peddle some crazy alarmist rhetoric. This has no substance whatsoever. Yes, I'm sure Chinese construction workers and overseers are pushing their culture on the Africans while constituting less than one thousandth of the population. That makes perfect sense. Especially considering China is practically devoid of any culture to spread other than capitalism and industrialization. Your claims just make no sense.
And no, your assumption about Africans knowing how black people are viewed in China would be wrong. I'm pretty sure tribal Africans do not know or care how African-Americans on vacation in China are being treated. Seriously, this last post really went off the deep end. Also, violence against Chinese workers in Africa has nothing to do with Islamic fundamentalism. Please, just stop.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On December 08 2010 20:40 DannyJ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 20:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
I'll take the time to explain why China will never become a superpower , it's much the same reason for Americas decline.
When Chinas wages become higher than elsewhere (actually already happening) , the companies that outsourced production from western countries to China will just move to the next cheapest place.India first then later Africa.China is at the mercy of the greed of these multinational corps like every other nation is.Start taking away manufacturing capability and the superpower will decline , hard to believe now that at one time Britain was the #1 manufacturing nation and they controlled half the globe.The decline in Americas power is directly related to the decline in American manufacturing , the same can be said of China and the impending movement of Chinas manufacturing to even cheaper economies.
Yeah, if you look at the flow of economic power thats been a trend for centuries. The country that has the most untapped resources / manufacturing man power get developed by the current strong economies. From Europe to America to China to now India / Africa etc. The only caveat being the world economy isn't truly driven as much on tangible objects as in the past, but it still predominately is.
are you in fact explaining europe by way of its larger reserve of untapped resources compared to africa and the americas?
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On December 09 2010 09:35 StorkHwaiting wrote:
And yeah, you can have business relations with Iran without pissing off the rest of the world. Hope you're aware the EU and Russia both do business with Iran. EU was also doing quite a bit of business with Iraq when the USA invaded. Specifically France. Hence a lot of the outrage in the EU at the onset of the war.
You seriously think that the "outrage" in Europe ( and most specifically France ) about the second war in Iraq was related to business ?
That's a good way to dismiss all the blatant lies of the Bush administration.
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On December 09 2010 10:05 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 09:35 StorkHwaiting wrote:
And yeah, you can have business relations with Iran without pissing off the rest of the world. Hope you're aware the EU and Russia both do business with Iran. EU was also doing quite a bit of business with Iraq when the USA invaded. Specifically France. Hence a lot of the outrage in the EU at the onset of the war.
You seriously think that the "outrage" in Europe ( and most specifically France ) about the second war in Iraq was related to business ? That's a good way to dismiss all the blatant lies of the Bush administration.
Among the populace, no. Government-wise, hell yes. France had major oil contracts with Iraq and was looking to secure more in the future. I said nothing about the blatant lies of the Bush administration, but thank you for taking that next illogical step for me.
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Sanya12364 Posts
China needs to solve its massive real estate bubble before anything about inheriting the world will ever happen. Pricing for housing is about 40 times sustained annual rent rates and about 20 times average annual salaries. A lot of units are empty while the occupied ones might have four or five people jammed into one room. And now China's central bank is raising its interest rates to combat the coming inflation.
The next two years will be interesting times in China to say the least.
And on a more practical note, people who don't approve of US's government should move away and take their productivity and taxable income with them. If it's that bad, starve the beast and build a good alternative.
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On December 09 2010 10:20 TanGeng wrote:
China needs to solve its massive real estate bubble before anything about inheriting the world will ever happen. Pricing for housing is about 40 times sustained annual rent rates and about 20 times average annual salaries. A lot of units are empty while the occupied ones might have four or five people jammed into one room. And now China's central bank is raising its interest rates to combat the coming inflation.
The next two years will be interesting times in China to say the least.
And on a more practical note, people who don't approve of US's government should move away and take their productivity and taxable income with them. If it's that bad, starve the beast and build a good alternative.
Yeah, China's financial system is soooo fucked up lol. Cronyism out the ass in nearly every aspect of it. (Real estate being a derivative of the financial system.)
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edit: your example was rude and inaccurate, that's all i wanted to say.
PMed
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Here's to hoping it happens sooner rather than later. 
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On December 09 2010 05:43 BruceLee6783 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 05:43 StorkHwaiting wrote:
You should apologize. Saying, "Go to another country if you don't like it here," is offensive as hell and provides absolutely nothing to the discourse.
Refute people on points but don't try to define their position or tell them what to do. Those are basic tenets of civil discussion.
"You should apologize". Well sir, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm afraid you just made a hypocrite of yourself by telling me to not tell people what to do, then turning around and telling me to apologize. Besides, my comment to the OP about moving to China was a suggestion. It was never meant to offend him, let alone anyone else. That includes you. He/She doesn't need you to get offended for them, so please let the OP make that decision for him/herself, especially since my comments were aimed at him/her.
No apology necessary, though I do take issue with the merit of your original comment.
I have visited China and stayed for extended periods of time - both in major metropolitan areas and in relatively impoverished towns (Fujain province mostly).
However, you must realize that anecdotal evidence can only draw a limited conclusion.
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In order to explain myself more, I'd have to take a huge detour from this topic. But I won't derail this thread in order to do so.
StorkHwaiting seems to think that I'm brainwashed into believing everything the media tells me, as if they're directly spoon feeding every idea and notion that comes to me. I'm sorry, but that is simply not the case.
I'm trying to be patriotic and defend much of the bad reputation that the country seems to have on this website. I live in the US, and to visit here and see so many people bad mouthing my country makes me angry.
I'm not sure if I love what my country has been doing lately or not, because I don't spend my time hanging around Washington DC and such seeing and listening to what goes on behind closed doors. Could our own government be screwing us over? Perhaps. Perhaps not. But they have a job to do, and we trust them to do it well. Stop acting as if the USA is the only country that harbors idiots/lazy people/corrupt politicians/biased news agencies. If the US was originally successful, only to end up a bankrupt country, what's to stop the same thing happening to China? Just because they're very successful at the moment? Yeah, well...so was the US in it's infancy.
This post is not directed at anyone specifically, but if you dislike my country as much as you SEEM to, then maybe it's not worth wasting your time over. Quit talking about it. You guys sure waste a lot of time on the topic, time that could be used to enhance your life, rather than gossip yourselves to death over it.
I love you guys, btw. I just wish you'd be more respectful of other's countries.
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On December 09 2010 09:35 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Explain the part where any of the things you mentioned holds even a candle to the enmity that Christianity and Islam has had over the centuries.
Sorry, but I am not the one who needs to explain. You need to explain why those events are, which are, just like Christianity and Islam, centuries old, meaningless. You are the one who claimed that the issue between Christianity and Islam is huge and the issue between China and Islam is nothing compared to it. So why should I continue pointing out that there are hundrets of issues between Islam and China, when you won't explain why it is still nothing? Simply repeating doesn't make it true, you know. You need to give me something more. Either explain it to me (this means you actually take the time to point out the huge issues between Christianity and Islam) or you quote someone who has actually some sort of authority (sorry to say, but your word just isn't enough).
On December 09 2010 09:35 StorkHwaiting wrote:
I don't think you understand what you're trying to claim here.
Please stop those random flames. I understand what I am saying.
On December 09 2010 09:35 StorkHwaiting wrote:
You're saying China's state atheism (which does not single out any one religion) is on a comparable level to Christian/Islam hostility?You're saying China's state atheism (which does not single out any one religion) is on a comparable level to Christian/Islam hostility?
No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying that state atheism is one of the problems which indicate as well as generate hostility. The total sum of issues is maybe not on the same level as Christian/Islam hostility, but it is comparable. Which makes your initial statement "China also has absolutely zero historical context with the Muslim world like America does." untrue.
On December 09 2010 09:35 StorkHwaiting wrote:
I am extremely skeptical of fundamentalist rhetoric holding up in any hypothetical Sino-Islamic conflict. I didn't say China and Islam have never met. I said, there is ZERO context between China and Islam that is remotely comparable to that of the bloodstained history between Christianity and Islam. Do you understand what I'm trying to say now? It doesn't Compare. Not that it doesn't exist.
I understand you the first time, however this doesn't mean it is true. I showed you many issues between China and Islam. Like I said above: Simply saying "it is nothing compared to Christianity and Islam" isn't enough.
On December 09 2010 09:35 StorkHwaiting wrote:
And yeah, you can have business relations with Iran without pissing off the rest of the world. Hope you're aware the EU and Russia both do business with Iran. EU was also doing quite a bit of business with Iraq when the USA invaded. Specifically France. Hence a lot of the outrage in the EU at the onset of the war.
I don't want to derail the thread any further, especially since your comparison doesn't add much to the discussion. Let me just make myself clearer: The trade relations China has between different nations in the middle east as well as africa generate problems. As we know many countries have issues with each other, and the fact that China trades with all of them, is something that is pissing them off (naturally). Not sure if the EU/France - Iraqwar flame is serious or just trolling, either way it has nothing to do with the discussion.
On December 09 2010 09:35 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Stopping or hindering Muslims in China will not have much affect.
Says who? You? Not good enough.
On December 09 2010 09:35 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Al-Qaeda has already tried to support the Uighur movement in the northwest and tried to incite unrest. It has not been very effective.
First of all: Do you have any source for your claims that Al-Qaeda has tried to support the Uyghur movement? Second of all: I doubt Al-Qaeda had anything to do with it, but there has been a major uprising in Ürümqi. You are claiming:
On December 09 2010 09:35 StorkHwaiting wrote:
While the Uighurs are not that happy, their insurgency does not come anywhere close to the scale of the Afghanis or the Iraqis.
yet what you failed to understand is, that the uprising in Xinjiang is disastrous for China. I never made the comparision between Xinjiang and Afghanistan (please stop putting word into my mouth). What I have said is, that those events and uprisings have a possibility to develop into something worse and that islamist fundamentalist are angry because of the oppression. They might choose to support the Uyghurs in the future. Unlike you I am not claiming that they did (I am really interested in your source), but that they might.
On December 09 2010 09:35 StorkHwaiting wrote:
You seem to think that as long as it involves Muslims who are unhappy, that it's absolutely the same and its inevitable that anywhere there is an unhappy Muslim there will be some huge tide of fundamentalist guerrilla warfare.
This is not what I think. I think it is a possibility, but I doubt it will be guerrilla warfare (that doesn't even make sense in China..). Terrorist attacks are way more likely.
On December 09 2010 09:35 StorkHwaiting wrote:
...And then you're claiming Chinese cultural imperialism in Africa?! Now I know you're just trying to peddle some crazy alarmist rhetoric. This has no substance whatsoever. Yes, I'm sure Chinese construction workers and overseers are pushing their culture on the Africans while constituting less than one thousandth of the population. That makes perfect sense. Especially considering China is practically devoid of any culture to spread other than capitalism and industrialization. Your claims just make no sense.
This gets kinda annoying but okay, I try to explain it to you. First, please stop ignoring one point while picking on another. I said cultural imperialism as well as racism. You don't seem to understand what cultural imperialism means. It is not as narrowminded as you think it is. Building up compounds, denying entry, ignoring local law and favouring those who speak chinese is a form of cultural imperialism.
But the major issue is no doubt racism. I only brought this up because you claimed the problems in Africa are simply "China is stealing jobs". That entire statement is just wrong and clearly shows that you haven't really studied chinese involvement in Africa, otherwise you would know that it is not about stealing jobs. It is about the way chinese employers act. They use shotguns on africans (google news will provide you with some information) or cut wages. While at the same time being really corrupt (with the local government). It has, by no means, anything to do with stealing jobs, as jobs aren't the issue at all. China is even creating jobs and only sending expats where the local market can't deliever, mainly engineers. Again, this has nothing to do with stealing jobs and your point was just wrong.
On December 09 2010 09:35 StorkHwaiting wrote:
And no, your assumption about Africans knowing how black people are viewed in China would be wrong. I'm pretty sure tribal Africans do not know or care how African-Americans on vacation in China are being treated. Seriously, this last post really went off the deep end.
*sigh* Seriously, it is kinda hard to discuss if you don't take the effort and read some background. I have no idea why you are taling about tribal Africans or African-Americans on vacation in China (what the hell?!). Let me give you some insight: There are africans in China. No, not African-Americans, really Africans. Tens of thousands of them, language students. And they experience racism everyday. I urge you once again to put some effort into this and actually take a look at africans in China and chinese involvement in Africa. Otherwise a discussion makes no sense, because you don't really know the background.
On December 09 2010 09:35 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Also, violence against Chinese workers in Africa has nothing to do with Islamic fundamentalism.
Like I have already said: Those are issues which create prejudice with aids Islamic fundamentalism/hate towards China.
On December 09 2010 09:35 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Please, just stop.
I would hope you could stop the:
- pointless flaming
- derailing of the topic
- claiming things without proving anything
- replying "do you even know what I am/you are talking about LOLO?!" while ignoring all the arguments
If you have done that I might consider replying. Don't bother replying if you just repeat yourself/flame my english/go offtopic.
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Nothing is gonna change guys.
There will be no borders between countries in 50 years. English will become second must-have language. People can move around the world and work anywhere. Successful ones will get on top, maybe whole Microsoft will consist of indians and chinese.
I come from relatively third world country, have been to USA for 6 months, have been to Singapore for 2.5 years. And believe my country is progressing really fast. Life quality is almost same as in USA or Singapore now. Except some human-rights and corruption problems. But other than that I can have everything car, wide screen tv, high speed internet, all modern technologies. Basically all stuff that average american has. I don't have to work hard for that either.
World is changing now. There is no competition between countries anymore.
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On December 09 2010 16:10 BruceLee6783 wrote:
In order to explain myself more, I'd have to take a huge detour from this topic. But I won't derail this thread in order to do so.
StorkHwaiting seems to think that I'm brainwashed into believing everything the media tells me, as if they're directly spoon feeding every idea and notion that comes to me. I'm sorry, but that is simply not the case.
I'm trying to be patriotic and defend much of the bad reputation that the country seems to have on this website. I live in the US, and to visit here and see so many people bad mouthing my country makes me angry.
I'm not sure if I love what my country has been doing lately or not, because I don't spend my time hanging around Washington DC and such seeing and listening to what goes on behind closed doors. Could our own government be screwing us over? Perhaps. Perhaps not. But they have a job to do, and we trust them to do it well. Stop acting as if the USA is the only country that harbors idiots/lazy people/corrupt politicians/biased news agencies. If the US was originally successful, only to end up a bankrupt country, what's to stop the same thing happening to China? Just because they're very successful at the moment? Yeah, well...so was the US in it's infancy.
This post is not directed at anyone specifically, but if you dislike my country as much as you SEEM to, then maybe it's not worth wasting your time over. Quit talking about it. You guys sure waste a lot of time on the topic, time that could be used to enhance your life, rather than gossip yourselves to death over it.
I love you guys, btw. I just wish you'd be more respectful of other's countries.
Where in the hell did you get the notion that America's greatness was built on "trusting" the government to do their job? You must have missed the memo called the American Revolution, the Constitution, the separation of powers, States' Rights, Centralization vs Decentralization, Republican minimalism of gov't versus Democratic expansion of government. Basically, it seems like you don't have the slightest inkling about the political discourse of "your" country. Nor do you understand that a significant part of America's identity is in the fact that the citizens do not trust government, they control government and determine its course through voting.
If you want to go live in a country where people should just shutup and trust the government to do their job, well... I would recommend you move to China .
Also, the US in its infancy was not all that successful. I suggest you read your country's history. And that of Europe at the time, so you have a better understanding of this country you supposedly love so much. Getting your capital burnt down multiple times, requiring large volumes of foreign aid, and being predominantly agrarian is not what I would call very successful in its infancy. In fact, tiny ass UK was the world's top industrial power during the USA's infancy. The USA's ascension had as much to do with the Napoleonic wars of Europe as it had to do with the US's own merits. And this pattern was repeated over and over again until the middle of the 20th century. Europe owns itself, USA profits by sitting on the sidelines.
It's odd though, somehow I managed to learn this stuff without hanging around Washington DC. :-\
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Sanya12364 Posts
On December 10 2010 03:45 StorkHwaiting wrote:If you want to go live in a country where people should just shutup and trust the government to do their job, well... I would recommend you move to China .
Don't misrepresent China. Although that might be one central tenant of Confuscianism - to trust in government in exchange for virtuous rule, few in China see the government as virtuous or even half-non-corrupt. The Communism Party is entirely concentrated on suppressing political dissent, trying to maintain the economic boom, and maintaining public order. It has little mandate to do anything else.
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On December 09 2010 16:10 BruceLee6783 wrote:
In order to explain myself more, I'd have to take a huge detour from this topic. But I won't derail this thread in order to do so.
StorkHwaiting seems to think that I'm brainwashed into believing everything the media tells me, as if they're directly spoon feeding every idea and notion that comes to me. I'm sorry, but that is simply not the case.
I'm trying to be patriotic and defend much of the bad reputation that the country seems to have on this website. I live in the US, and to visit here and see so many people bad mouthing my country makes me angry.
I'm not sure if I love what my country has been doing lately or not, because I don't spend my time hanging around Washington DC and such seeing and listening to what goes on behind closed doors. Could our own government be screwing us over? Perhaps. Perhaps not. But they have a job to do, and we trust them to do it well. Stop acting as if the USA is the only country that harbors idiots/lazy people/corrupt politicians/biased news agencies. If the US was originally successful, only to end up a bankrupt country, what's to stop the same thing happening to China? Just because they're very successful at the moment? Yeah, well...so was the US in it's infancy.
This post is not directed at anyone specifically, but if you dislike my country as much as you SEEM to, then maybe it's not worth wasting your time over. Quit talking about it. You guys sure waste a lot of time on the topic, time that could be used to enhance your life, rather than gossip yourselves to death over it.
I love you guys, btw. I just wish you'd be more respectful of other's countries.
Blindly defending a country without impartial acknowledgement of its flaws and the reasons others would assert to attack that country is not patriotism, it's blind nationalism and the same force that has led to so many brutal dictatorships we have seen in the past century. The true patriot accepts the flaws of his country and works to improve it through dissent and yes, even direct criticism. Criticism is not indicative of disrespect either, as you apparently equate it.
Also, "if you don't like this country, leave it" is the most offensive and blatantly stupid personal attack you could possibly make in any argument regarding politics.
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EPT
