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On November 11 2010 11:51 gogogadgetflow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 11:48 qzmpwxno wrote:
Affirmative action is wrong.
That's all I have to say. I suggest you at least skim the article and then edit your post so you look like less of a moron.
Did YOU read the article? What he said was completely relevant to one of the major points of the article, and that is, limiting the number of Asians--overtly or otherwise--admitted to schools in order to preserve a WASP identity.
What separates the category of Asians from past AA like low-income or underprivileged factors is that we are now solely talking about race as a determining factor. It's kind of sad really.
Universities are such bullshit. I go to UC Berkeley, and while there are a lot of Asians (California, hello), there are a ton of non-asians who are dumb as shit and still got in. It's starting to make me wonder.
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Back when I was at Waterloo, a (white) guy I knew was upset about "Asians sticking together" and wrote a letter to the school newspaper to complain. Created a shitstorm in the letters section of the newspaper that lasted for weeks afterwards. As far as I can tell, people who make this complaint rarely take positive action on their own part, ie. going out of their way to meet people of other ethnicities. Personally, I met a lot of people of different ethnicities at school simply by being friendly and talking to people. Amazing how well it worked.
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On November 11 2010 12:02 Chill wrote:
Being from Ontario, this article is exactly the thought process I went through except it wasn't strictly "Asian". Waterloo and UofT have a fantastic academic reputation and a reputation of zero social life. McGill and Queens are slightly lower in academics but have a way better social reputation. I didn't even consider Waterloo or UofT (despite applying and not getting in!).
It's an important part of university, but I'm not sure what could be done to fix it.
Contrary to what the above posters think, I felt what I learned of importance at university was exactly 50% academic and 50% social. I've drawn on both skillsets equally in my career.
oh yeah, in the past 2-3 years i've been in UofT my social life has definitely gone nowhere.
the thing about asian people choosing universities like uoft (im asian) is that, in asian places such as hong kong, you can get a job easily if you have a degree from a university thats known. no one in hong kong ever heard of university of western ontario, york and will probably assume it to be third rate when you present it on your resume, but when you're coming from toronto university, they'll think you're pretty smart (though i'm doing so bad lol)
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fuck dis im asian and i think grades are pretty damn important but i have my fun im not always working i play Sc to relax after a test and just because im sober and prefer staying at home that makes me weird ill ltell u whats weird ppl telling me how to live my life fuck those assholes telling me i should be a drunk i like being at home
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Then again, socializing can build great contacts. Having good friends and contact later in life can serve you more than other things. There is more to life than only academic education.
I'm currently in University, but I don't party much and avoid drinking. I'm not asian though :O I'm not particularly strong at studying and prefer to develop critical thinking on my own time. University classes are more akin to brain washing than development of the human intellect.
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I'm going to have to voice the disdain of anti-asianness in admissions... it's just wrong. Asians aren't robots, they're people just like everybody else. There are just a lot of them, and a lot of them that happen to work really hard.
I have to say that I feel that my chances of getting into college were hampered by being half-asian.
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On November 11 2010 12:09 Reason.SC2 wrote:
Tangent:
There is a downside to the type of single-minded over-achiever culture that dominates these competitive schools. I have heard this from recruiters first hand and some very reputable big-name companies (which I will not mention) are beginning to take note:
A lot of the over-achievers work very hard to get where they're at. This comes at a cost though most of the time: underdeveloped social skills and emotional maturity can make this type of person very undesirable to work with, and bottom line less productive in a real job environment despite the good grades and know-how.
This of course has nothing to do with someone being Asian or not as single-minded study monsters that overachieve throughout the education process can be of any race or creed. More so it is to say that the "big-name" schools, which people compete to get into so that they can study 24/7 to be able to keep up with their class, are not nearly as desirable as they are made out to be.
Especially today where an undergrad degree is pretty much as useful as a roll of toilet paper... what matters most is where you *finish*. IMO to anyone reading this considering university, go to a school that will be less competitive. Focus on doing well there but don't forget to develop your social skills and personal maturity through having meaningful life experiences that go beyond getting an A+ in chem 101 or being an 'executive member' at the law and society club. Make sure that the school you go to for your Masters/PHD (or law school/med school, etc.) has a good reputation and really put in the work there... but for gods sake you're wasting time if you think an undergrad degree at a reputable school where you have to enslave yourself to books is worth anything.
Good advice here.
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It's pretty much a known fact all Asians go to class, go back, study, study, study some more. Its just the way asian parenting works, where you get drilled to have a good work ethic.
The article is quite true, but hey, why would you care so much about what they say or think? Sure they have fun, get the "social experience", party, drink, etc. Its fine if that's what they want to do, everyone's got a choice how they want to live.
But then asians spend time on their grades, because its the smart thing to do. sure you miss out on being social for a few years, but 10 years later when your living off 6 figures a year and on a yacht ballin' with other rich people you'll thank yourself and laugh at all the idiots you knew in university who got shit faced everyday.
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Well, its kinda different here in Melbourne (Australia), a lot of the asians here are clubbers partiers whilst being high achievers.
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On November 11 2010 12:05 chenchen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 12:02 Chill wrote:
Being from Ontario, this article is exactly the thought process I went through except it wasn't strictly "Asian". Waterloo and UofT have a fantastic academic reputation and a reputation of zero social life. McGill and Queens are slightly lower in academics but have a way better social reputation. I didn't even consider Waterloo or UofT (despite applying and not getting in!).
It's an important part of university, but I'm not sure what could be done to fix it.
Contrary to what the above posters think, I felt what I learned of importance at university was exactly 50% academic and 50% social. I've drawn on both skillsets equally in my career. Social life and drinking and clubbing are mutually exclusive. If you honestly believe that the only way to have fun in college and to drink and indulge in orgies then you're wrong. I'm sure kids at Waterloo and UofT have fun in other ways.
Hell yeah. Last friday we had a Hotwheels tournament.
(I'm a Waterloo student)
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It's an interesting read. I think it's mostly a social issue.
I am sure Toronto has like... what, 10-20% black people? I have only met one black TA out of 30+ I've met with in many different departments.
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I prefer to be very hard on myself. Dont know its in my blood, but then I'll stress myself out and bomb it.
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People with a different cultural upbringing (i.e. international, Asian students) are going to 'stick together'. In fact, it's not just limited to Asians as a group. Koreans have their own cliques, as do Japanese and Chinese students. I went to an international school in China for high school, and it was exactly the same there. It's also largely due to the language barrier.
On November 11 2010 12:18 Arterial wrote:
Well, its kinda different here in Melbourne (Australia), a lot of the asians here are clubbers partiers whilst being high achievers.
Hah, my last roommate was an exchange student from U of Melbourne and he was exactly as you describe. Apparently they party really hard over there. O_o
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Maybe us Asians would like to finish our assignments a few days before the deadline or study a few days/week ahead of time for an impending exam, instead of partying/clubbing until the last minute to write/cram while smashed.
I think many Asians (not specifically Chinese) have been brought up to value their education and to work hard earlier on (up through the university stages and maybe post-grad) so that they can enjoy life later on after they have a steady job or have some form of income. It's not that Asians are unsocial at university/college/school, it's just perhaps the wrong time of their life to say anything critical about it.
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On November 11 2010 12:02 Chill wrote:
Being from Ontario...
On November 11 2010 12:09 Reason.SC2 wrote:
Tangent:
There is a downside...
Both of you raise basically the same point, in that social networking and social skills are integral to having a successful career in many fields, but that raises the fundamental problem with this dynamic:
You go to a university to learn. What happens at a university? You are educated. What is the measure of success at a university? Getting good marks. The fact that social skills are just as necessary is implied, never stated, this is a cultural difference. You're right that the social aspect is an important part of a university education, but this is of implied importance. Immigrants of any race don't know this, they think success is getting good marks.
If the social aspect is just as important, and universities want to provide a balanced education, then the social aspect should be taught, it shouldn't just be implicitly assumed that students will get it naturally through frats or clubbing or employment or whatnot.
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On November 11 2010 12:14 Tdelamay wrote:
Then again, socializing can build great contacts. Having good friends and contact later in life can serve you more than other things. There is more to life than only academic education.
I'm currently in University, but I don't party much and avoid drinking. I'm not asian though :O I'm not particularly strong at studying and prefer to develop critical thinking on my own time. University classes are more akin to brain washing than development of the human intellect.
What I'm trying to say is that socialization isn't uniquely drunken clubbing. Asian students socialize and network, they just do it sober and over a board game or starcraft instead of in a club where they can't hear their own voice.
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
I'm Asian and damn proud of being so. No drinking no smoking no drugs no excessive partying. I like it like this.
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CA10835 Posts
On November 11 2010 12:10 Nagano wrote:
Universities are such bullshit. I go to UC Berkeley, and while there are a lot of Asians (California, hello), there are a ton of non-asians who are dumb as shit and still got in. It's starting to make me wonder.
to be honest i felt the same way about USC sometimes.
i think out of my 4 years there i probably met less than 10 asians that i felt were "too stupid" to be at USC, whereas i definitely that way more often about non-asians.
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I'm from U of T and while education is really important(they really really value that here), networking is as well. The peers I have now have be potential to be of assistance to me in the workforce post grad. Since many students at U of T are international, it would make sense for such individuals to mingle with the people from the same set. And honestly, I see people in my class go drinking the night before the midterm and then complain that the midterm was ridiculously hard and that Asians should stop pulling up the average so that the prof can curve marks. Like seriously, are you purposely thick? although I encourage these people not to drop, because they encourage the prof to curve. =)
Also, U of T is not a social life killer; just manage your time well.
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On November 11 2010 12:18 Arterial wrote:
Well, its kinda different here in Melbourne (Australia), a lot of the asians here are clubbers partiers whilst being high achievers.
That's true in Canada and I'm sure America as well. However there are also a lot of asians that are highly social in other ways like active members of interest clubs (board games, anime, starcraft) but apparently those don't count as being social because those activities aren't cool enough to meet the north american standard of socializing.
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EPT
