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The thing is that the in China, the unemployment rate is VERY high, relative to North American standards. They is a lot of fighting in China over jobs. My friend, an international student, basically said that I would not be able to survive in Hong Kong, as I would be taken advantage of. I am a nice guy, and work hard. However, the way he puts it, is that the most important thing in Hong Kong is success. The method in which success is achieved is not very important. For example, they will be willing to lie and basically downplay my work in a projected, and brag about their successes. A dog eat dog world. Maybe I am just naive, but I believe that does not occur, or maybe not occur as much in the North American workplace. Things in North America are more relaxed, and not as frantic.
There are some things that the articles do not mention, and have been somewhat mentioned by other Tlers. There are, in general, three type of Asians in university.
1) Asian Born in Canada
2) Rich International Students
3) Relatively Poor International Students
Typically, the rich international students will be the ones that are going to clubs. Please do understand this is a generalization, but it is however mostly true. They are the ones from Hong Kong who have rich parents and have been basically been sent to Canada as they are unable to easily secure spot in the university in Hong Kong.
The other two groups work fairly hard in school. However, most international students that are relatively poor will work very hard and will be able to pull out the straight A+s. The reason why is that they understand what it is like to be poor. And they want to move up. Furthermore, they understand that their parents have put a lot of money in them to have them move to North America, pay for their schooling and housing. They want to value their parent's trust. They do have a social life, but their value is in school success.
Students that are born in North America, are kinda of the average. This set of students will work hard, however, will and may put social values ahead of academic values. That being said, the parents instill a very high academic value on the children. I always joke that the most Asian kids are pushed to be engineers, doctors or lawyers. I guess business is now one of the 'wanted' jobs by the parents. Furthermore, there are a lot of childhood stories of hearing how life was back in China and seeing how bad it is. And how little they came to Canada with.
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On November 11 2010 12:02 Chill wrote:
Being from Ontario, this article is exactly the thought process I went through except it wasn't strictly "Asian". Waterloo and UofT have a fantastic academic reputation and a reputation of zero social life. McGill and Queens are slightly lower in academics but have a way better social reputation. I didn't even consider Waterloo or UofT (despite applying and not getting in!).
It's an important part of university, but I'm not sure what could be done to fix it.
Contrary to what the above posters think, I felt what I learned of importance at university was exactly 50% academic and 50% social. I've drawn on both skillsets equally in my career.
I agree. Both the importance of uni's social aspect(not nec. partying) , and the fact that it isn't an "Asian thing". Also the OP's assessment of "hit and miss" I think summarizes my reaction to the article.
I feel like they took some real valid concerns (Asian and non-Asian ones) and molded it into a single narrative. Some of it is true, a lot is exaggerated, but it feels like it was all squeezed together to "tell a story", whether it was relevant or not.
It was annoying to read, but I'm glad it was published and featured prominently, as it will promote discussion. This is annoying narrative cropping up more and more these days.
Also, a lot of the comments just feel like thinly veiled "latent racism". Not the lynch and segregate kind, but more like the "not ready for a Black president" people polled. Maybe not classic racism, but more like xenophobia and paranoia of people that act/look different from oneself.
I don't encourage it, but if someone flat out just said, "They're different, it makes me uncomfortable, do not want to about surrounded by them," it would at least be honest. Let's not pretend like we give a shit about how "well-rounded" or are concerned for their social lives! It honestly just makes the issue harder to discuss if you throw layers of BS that can sidetrack people. Whenever I hear someone object to an Asian conversation, the objection is usually "I can't understand." (even if they're not being addressed) or "They could be saying bad things about me." Very rarely is the concern the missed opportunity to become well-rounded lol.
I want to stress that there are points in there that can be valid and interesting, just dont feel it was necessary to mash all under a polarizing "OMG TOO ASIAN" banner.
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I think this thing all boils down to which group is being violated. Non-asian groups can argue that Asians are the ones that are stepping over their roles because they did not have the resources to reach the asian level in school. But Asians can argue, that they studied much harder than the other races and they deserve better, even if they have some resources others dont. As an asian tho, i personally feel that college admissions are unfair.
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On November 11 2010 12:40 Monoxide wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 12:37 XinRan wrote:
I think Canadian colleges shouldn't establish grades as the primary criterion for admission. If they take more of a holistic approach and consider all aspects of an applicant's character, then they can achieve a student body that is both social and high-achieving. I say think twice about admitting a student with good grades but lacking hobbies, regardless of race. Depends on what you mean by hobbies. Alot of the high achieving "asian" students are coming in with very good grades and tons of hobbies. Granted they might not all be sports, but the admissions committee would be discriminating against stuff like piano, yearbook club, executive at some student organization, etc.
I see that you're Canadian, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpreted this snippet:
Canadian universities, apart from highly competitive professional programs and faculties, don’t quiz applicants the same way, and rely entirely on transcripts.
to mean Canadian universities do not consider anything but grades.
If they do consider extra-curriculars, I think it is okay to discriminate against over-represented activities. To consider a hyperbolic scenario, if 50% of the student body plays piano, would admitting a ton of new pianists add to the school?
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On November 11 2010 12:38 Monoxide wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 12:36 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On November 11 2010 11:57 blagoonga123 wrote:On November 11 2010 11:55 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
and so some Asian parents choose to try and force their values onto their children, which I am opposed to.
I thought the whole point of parenting was to try to ingrain some values onto your children. While thats true to an extent, I'd rather think of it as ingraining values through being a role model, not putting horse blinders on your child so that they go into exactly what you want. I don't know if that's how parents would think. Imo, kids are an investment(strictly speaking), and as a parent, you'd obviously want that investment to grow as much as possible. I dunno, if I had a kid, and he told me he wanted to go into a B.A. majoring in history of art, I wouldn't be very happy.
Yeah, I agree with that too. But really, if you're only thinking about the kid in just the investment sense, then you really shouldn't be a parent. The other factor that's in there is love for your child, wanting him/her to be happy in whatever they choose, even if that means being less "successful" in life. And I feel like, even though the investment side makes you unhappy about it, you deal with it because at the end of the day, if your son/daughter is happy then you've done your job.
Could be me just being naive, though.
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Eik! This sounds like me in one year. Damn stereotypes!
But this has been public knowledge for a while now. I'm surprised it's taken this long for it to be published.
On November 11 2010 12:58 XinRan wrote:
If they do consider extra-curriculars, I think it is okay to discriminate against over-represented activities. To consider a hyperbolic scenario, if 50% of the student body plays piano, would admitting a ton of new pianists add to the school?
But would it be morally correct to exclude those who would have made it in if they simply did not take piano, or mention piano, in their application?
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Seriously, I don't see how this is a problem. There will always be a degree of racial segregation (in terms of socialising) at universities, just like in real life. People generally tend to hang out with others who are like them and share the same interests and values, and this isn't going to change.
I dunno about everyone else, but I would be the first in line to sign up for a university that had a reputation for being "too asian". It would certainly be a welcome break from the retarded "hurp durp let's get drunk every weekend and skate by with a C- average" mainstream culture of universities in NZ. I'm white but I can probably count the number of white friends I have on one hand. At uni me and my friends would often complain that university organised events were nothing but drinking and partying. Hell, the biggest student club at AU is the fucking "drinking club", I kid you not. By far the most fun events we attended were organised by the asian clubs or through groups of friends.
Will the percentage of Asians at universities continue to grow? Yes, because in general Asians have a better work ethic and will out-perform their white counterparts academically. Does this mean that the demographics and culture on campus will change? Of course it does. But is this a cause for concern? Hell no, I think it's a good thing if Asians raise the bar a little and create a desirable social alternative to the widely accepted university lifestyle of drinking, partying and not giving a fuck.
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On November 11 2010 12:58 XinRan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 12:40 Monoxide wrote:On November 11 2010 12:37 XinRan wrote:
I think Canadian colleges shouldn't establish grades as the primary criterion for admission. If they take more of a holistic approach and consider all aspects of an applicant's character, then they can achieve a student body that is both social and high-achieving. I say think twice about admitting a student with good grades but lacking hobbies, regardless of race. Depends on what you mean by hobbies. Alot of the high achieving "asian" students are coming in with very good grades and tons of hobbies. Granted they might not all be sports, but the admissions committee would be discriminating against stuff like piano, yearbook club, executive at some student organization, etc. I see that you're Canadian, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpreted this snippet: Show nested quote +Canadian universities, apart from highly competitive professional programs and faculties, don’t quiz applicants the same way, and rely entirely on transcripts. to mean Canadian universities do not consider anything but grades.
If they do consider extra-curriculars, I think it is okay to discriminate against over-represented activities. To consider a hyperbolic scenario, if 50% of the student body plays piano, would admitting a ton of new pianists add to the school?
Extra-curriculars only matter for grad school and professional school.
Why would adding more hockey players benefit an academic institution over piano players? Favoring sports over other hobbies is just a sneaky way of affirmitive actioning more whites and blacks into university since asians aren't known for their athletic ability and have more cerebral hobbies.
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The idea is that college is more than just about academics. Sure, they are important. But they arent everything. Im sure everyone has seen the kid in class who gets all A's, then gets up to talk and is a complete social retard. The basic idea is that by forcing yourself to go into unfamiliar situations- clubbing, parties with people you dont know, you build a set of social icebreaking techniques you can use for the rest of your life.
The idea isnt that playing games instead of mingling at a party isnt social. Its the fact you are refusing to leave your comfort zone and learning different sets of social skills.
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Extreme bias and non-racial stereotyping ahead:
I didn't read the whole article (was really long sorry), but as a white kid who grew up in the Toronto area, I knew that I never wanted to go to a Toronto school. Not only do you have to live at home the entire time you are at university instead of living in a dorm/your own place and doing new shit, meeting new people etc., Toronto universities tend to attract the type of kids who are perfectly fine with that. Not trying to differentiate by race at all here; you get lots of caucasians, east asians and south asians who go to Toronto schools. The nerd stereotype is the same, however.
I ended up going to UW which I'm sure has the highest number of east asians per capita out of all Ontario schools, but it's different. A large fraction of the students here come from the Toronto area and probably had the same idea I did. Even if I thought UofT was a significantly better school than UW (which I didn't, UW is better), I still probably would have picked UW, Queen's or Western just because I'd hate to go to UofT and wallow in nerdiness with the rest of the UofT students. And being forced to live at home during my time as an 18-22 year old would be an absolute nightmare.
Also just read Chill's post, he must have forgotten that Laurier (whitest arts school in Ontario probably) is down the street. Waterloo is nowhere on the scale of Western or anything but it's still a damn good city for social life due to the fact that between 1/5 and 1/6 of the population is a university student.
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Very interesting article!
Correlation does not imply causation, and we shouldn't have affirmative action.
Maybe the best solution to the "Asians are generally high achievers" *problem* (lol) isn't to focus on the Asians... maybe we should:
+ Show Spoiler +TELL EVERYONE ELSE TO STEP IT UP A NOTCH AND STOP BEING LAZY.
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I won't go into the validity of the points of the article or the posters. I see them as individual viewpoints that serve to provide information and stimulate interest so that a person can go "find out more".
To this end, I would like to help everyone "find out more". Let me start by stating the following observations:
-> Most of the "academically oriented" universities where I live, Sydney, have a disproportionate amount of Asian students.
-> Most of said students don't hang out on campus
-> Most of the said students associate with other asians and speak their respective mother languages (Mandarin, Cantonese, etc.), i.e. they don’t have very wide social networks
-> Most of their conversations (and this is because I was a nerd who played starcraft and was allowed into an 'asian circle of friends') center around academic activities or some form of gaming.
Now, please, before you go ahead and say "you're generalising" I have this to say: YES I am. My sample allows me to put forward a generalisation based on observation. I KNOW THIS IS NOT TRUE IN EVERY CASE!!!!!! I know not all asians are like this, so I won't go on about that.
Having said all that (and this sets the premise for furher questions I want to ask) I would like to ask YOU (TL'ers) to ponder this simple question: Why do you go to university?
1-> Because you want to get a good job?
2-> Because you want to pursue further academia?
3-> Other?
Again, from conversations and generalizations (again they don't apply to everyone) most people go to university for point 1 above. If that is the case, then I would like to make you aware of certain consequences of the "asian universities" and the "asian way of socialising" in terms of employment (again generalisations drawn from experience that are not necessarily complete):
1-> Most asians coming out of universities have very poor communication skills. (I am a manager where I work and talk to other managers recruiting) Playing online games does not help you increase your vocabulary or set a very good example on the “way to socialise”.
2-> Most Asians are very good with well defined tasks but cannot
-> make very many alternative suggestions
-> work in an environment where ‘collaboration’ (i.e. talking to people and collecting consensus) lead to a solution.
What I’m trying to say is they’re very much “give me a well defined task and leave me in the corner to work by myself” kind of workers. Before I say anything else, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! Every organisation needs people like this. They’re known as the “do’ers”. However, the do’ers aren’t necessarily the ones that “get paid the most”. People pay for ideas, decisions, ability to negotiate and ability to work in a ‘team environment’. If you are a good talker and an ideas man or make good decisions then you progress quickly up the corporate ladder (more $$$ if that’s your thing).
So, with all that said, I would like to use this thread to ask a few questions directed at the Asian community of TL.
What is your expectation of university?
What is your expectation of your career?
What obstacles do you face at work that are preventing progress? (career, $$$, etc.)
Again, I’m sampling here and I understand that the sample is skewed (towards gamers) but some information is better then absolutely none. I hope you’re not offended by my generalisations.
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On November 11 2010 12:30 alan25 wrote:
im asian, im not saying all asians are like this but if you notice how an asian immigrant parent treats their kids its pretty abusive, mostly you see this at a very young age, the kids have to yell to get any attention, you're basically emotionally damaged/distant from the beginning, this goes into the stereotype of "blank face asians" its not because asians are born like that, its because a lot of parents are very abusive and to them (the victims), feeling anything (emotions) is very difficult for anyone who has abusive parents.
"ya but i thought all parents know how to raise their kids with love" this isn't true for asian parents (they literally ignore it or forgotten what love is), i wouldn't call them cowards, but its a very a long cycle that has gone on for centuries, hitting/disciplining is just way a of life for asians (at least to poorer less educated which is a majority) to be shitty and unforgiving.
from what i've seen with my younger cousin (he's 4 now), it seems like he doesn't have much of a grounding (a strong emotionally/happy mother/father to look up to) so the child acts very ill tempered which reflects their own parents. So in turn for the child acting in such a bad manner his parents do hit him on occasion, his mother even talks to mine about i'm actually quoting "you need to bring the child indoors so white people don't see you hitting him", from what i've seen its just another case of a new born loving child confused about why the fuck is everyone around him so shitty i.e "unfun". its just fear over love, im sure a lot of people might have the same issues of trusting someone with your emotions.
as time progresses the child either becomes like his parents (distant emotionally, ignorant), or he can stop being like that and say "fuck it, ill run around naked to prove fearlessness like a raised by love white man" =p
This is complete bullshit for one reason - incongruent cultures. If you live in a Western society you get all sorts of conflicting messages from an Asian family versus society at large. Asian culture tells you to study hard and get a well-paying job so you can support a family. Western culture tells you to pursue your individual dreams and damn everybody else.
In a Western country where Asian kids adopt Western values, immigrant Asian parents don't know how to handle their rebelliousness except by the way they were dealt with as unruly children - through means that Westerners would fear for getting child services called on them. In the end it only serves to reinforce the image of strict, uncaring, abusive Asian parents, and creates a tension between being filial and "being yourself."
The funny thing is that in an Asian country, parents treat their kids this way ALL the time - and guess what? They end up pretty well-adjusted, because there wasn't at least as much incongruency between parental values and societal values. They laugh about the times they were smacked around for being mischievous children WITH their parents.
So no, I don't think Asian parents are unloving cruel disciplinarians. It's just inherent of being an immigrant family that creates these problems.
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I go to UW (one of the universities mentioned in the article), and yeah, being a white person makes me a minority in the math/cs faculty. Is that a problem? No way. If someone is better qualified, smarter and is willing to work harder to get in to a good university, it's their right to do so, regardless of what race they are. The article frames the problem as an admissions problem for the most part, which is completely off base.
If there's a problem, it's that on average, non-asians are not stepping up to the challenge of globalization. If people in other countries are working harder to become better learners, smarter students and more knowledeable engineers, computer scientists and mathematicians, then we need to either step up or accept that they're going to be more qualified for jobs than we are. Sure, I've heard people blame them for being mindless work-aholics, lacking in creativity, etc, but when you actually know people who've come from other countries and worked their way in to getting top marks in a hard program, they're just like every other top performer, except that there's more of them. Some universities put a primary focus on academics, and in my opinion, those universities shouldn't need to worry about whether or not the people they're admitting will go clubbing. If a university needs to rely on its social scene to be a draw, then that says something about the level of its academics
Lastly, it's not as bad as people like to think. Here in waterloo, asians do tend to dominate CS, actsci and to an extent engineering programs, but there are also tons of people of middle-eastern or indian origin who work just as hard, and in the very top levels (ie, top 40-60 of each year) it's actually pretty evenly distributed between races (though definitely not genders) So yeah, if white people are worried that their places are getting taken up by immigrants, they need to work harder or just get realistic about how smart they are.
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On November 11 2010 12:58 XinRan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 12:40 Monoxide wrote:On November 11 2010 12:37 XinRan wrote:
I think Canadian colleges shouldn't establish grades as the primary criterion for admission. If they take more of a holistic approach and consider all aspects of an applicant's character, then they can achieve a student body that is both social and high-achieving. I say think twice about admitting a student with good grades but lacking hobbies, regardless of race. Depends on what you mean by hobbies. Alot of the high achieving "asian" students are coming in with very good grades and tons of hobbies. Granted they might not all be sports, but the admissions committee would be discriminating against stuff like piano, yearbook club, executive at some student organization, etc. I see that you're Canadian, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpreted this snippet: Show nested quote +Canadian universities, apart from highly competitive professional programs and faculties, don’t quiz applicants the same way, and rely entirely on transcripts. to mean Canadian universities do not consider anything but grades. If they do consider extra-curriculars, I think it is okay to discriminate against over-represented activities. To consider a hyperbolic scenario, if 50% of the student body plays piano, would admitting a ton of new pianists add to the school?
Ya I'm canadian. The point of putting something like piano on your transcript is not to show I am a very good piano player such that I can play for the school, its an attempt to show that you're well rounded and you do other things other than study.Honestly I don't think they give a shit whether you play the piano or violin or the flute. Honestly, a majority of people holding a executive position in a student club do not do it for personal enjoyment(at least not 100% complete enjoyment), they're there because it looks good on your resume. So ya, It would be wrong to not admit me based on the fact that I play piano, even when your school already contains a majority of piano players.
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On November 11 2010 13:10 d3_crescentia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 12:30 alan25 wrote:
im asian, im not saying all asians are like this but if you notice how an asian immigrant parent treats their kids its pretty abusive, mostly you see this at a very young age, the kids have to yell to get any attention, you're basically emotionally damaged/distant from the beginning, this goes into the stereotype of "blank face asians" its not because asians are born like that, its because a lot of parents are very abusive and to them (the victims), feeling anything (emotions) is very difficult for anyone who has abusive parents.
"ya but i thought all parents know how to raise their kids with love" this isn't true for asian parents (they literally ignore it or forgotten what love is), i wouldn't call them cowards, but its a very a long cycle that has gone on for centuries, hitting/disciplining is just way a of life for asians (at least to poorer less educated which is a majority) to be shitty and unforgiving.
from what i've seen with my younger cousin (he's 4 now), it seems like he doesn't have much of a grounding (a strong emotionally/happy mother/father to look up to) so the child acts very ill tempered which reflects their own parents. So in turn for the child acting in such a bad manner his parents do hit him on occasion, his mother even talks to mine about i'm actually quoting "you need to bring the child indoors so white people don't see you hitting him", from what i've seen its just another case of a new born loving child confused about why the fuck is everyone around him so shitty i.e "unfun". its just fear over love, im sure a lot of people might have the same issues of trusting someone with your emotions.
as time progresses the child either becomes like his parents (distant emotionally, ignorant), or he can stop being like that and say "fuck it, ill run around naked to prove fearlessness like a raised by love white man" =p This is complete bullshit for one reason - incongruent cultures. If you live in a Western society you get all sorts of conflicting messages from an Asian family versus society at large. Asian culture tells you to study hard and get a well-paying job so you can support a family. Western culture tells you to pursue your individual dreams and damn everybody else. In a Western country where Asian kids adopt Western values, immigrant Asian parents don't know how to handle their rebelliousness except by the way they were dealt with as unruly children - through means that Westerners would fear for getting child services called on them. In the end it only serves to reinforce the image of strict, uncaring, abusive Asian parents, and creates a tension between being filial and "being yourself." The funny thing is that in an Asian country, parents treat their kids this way ALL the time - and guess what? They end up pretty well-adjusted, because there wasn't at least as much incongruency between parental values and societal values. They laugh about the times they were smacked around for being mischievous children WITH their parents. So no, I don't think Asian parents are unloving cruel disciplinarians. It's just inherent of being an immigrant family that creates these problems.
ya child abuse is something to laugh about.
well adjusted? china has the highest crime rate of adults stabbing little pre schoolers, china is in a horrible state, there's a growing rate of child abduction and organ stealing, why? because abusive shitty hivemind mentality of "lets make more babies to live out an entire lifetime of poverty because i would be ruled as an outcast if i rebel"
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On November 11 2010 12:39 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 12:37 XinRan wrote:
I think Canadian colleges shouldn't establish grades as the primary criterion for admission. If they take more of a holistic approach and consider all aspects of an applicant's character, then they can achieve a student body that is both social and high-achieving. I say think twice about admitting a student with good grades but lacking hobbies, regardless of race. The issue isn't a lack of hobbies or not socializing. It's that the way the asian kids socialize and the hobbies they have aren't valued as equal to the way white students socialize and their hobbies. Why does hockey or football make you more well rounded than anime and starcraft clubs? Why is clubbing and keggers more social than conversation at clubs or while playing board games or discussing school?
Yep, try putting "Starcraft clan co-leader - practice session leader (15hr per week)" and see how you do vs someone who (white or asian) knows the stereotypical, generally "white" hobbies and activities when you apply for basically anything.
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On November 11 2010 13:17 alan25 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 13:10 d3_crescentia wrote:On November 11 2010 12:30 alan25 wrote:
im asian, im not saying all asians are like this but if you notice how an asian immigrant parent treats their kids its pretty abusive, mostly you see this at a very young age, the kids have to yell to get any attention, you're basically emotionally damaged/distant from the beginning, this goes into the stereotype of "blank face asians" its not because asians are born like that, its because a lot of parents are very abusive and to them (the victims), feeling anything (emotions) is very difficult for anyone who has abusive parents.
"ya but i thought all parents know how to raise their kids with love" this isn't true for asian parents (they literally ignore it or forgotten what love is), i wouldn't call them cowards, but its a very a long cycle that has gone on for centuries, hitting/disciplining is just way a of life for asians (at least to poorer less educated which is a majority) to be shitty and unforgiving.
from what i've seen with my younger cousin (he's 4 now), it seems like he doesn't have much of a grounding (a strong emotionally/happy mother/father to look up to) so the child acts very ill tempered which reflects their own parents. So in turn for the child acting in such a bad manner his parents do hit him on occasion, his mother even talks to mine about i'm actually quoting "you need to bring the child indoors so white people don't see you hitting him", from what i've seen its just another case of a new born loving child confused about why the fuck is everyone around him so shitty i.e "unfun". its just fear over love, im sure a lot of people might have the same issues of trusting someone with your emotions.
as time progresses the child either becomes like his parents (distant emotionally, ignorant), or he can stop being like that and say "fuck it, ill run around naked to prove fearlessness like a raised by love white man" =p This is complete bullshit for one reason - incongruent cultures. If you live in a Western society you get all sorts of conflicting messages from an Asian family versus society at large. Asian culture tells you to study hard and get a well-paying job so you can support a family. Western culture tells you to pursue your individual dreams and damn everybody else. In a Western country where Asian kids adopt Western values, immigrant Asian parents don't know how to handle their rebelliousness except by the way they were dealt with as unruly children - through means that Westerners would fear for getting child services called on them. In the end it only serves to reinforce the image of strict, uncaring, abusive Asian parents, and creates a tension between being filial and "being yourself." The funny thing is that in an Asian country, parents treat their kids this way ALL the time - and guess what? They end up pretty well-adjusted, because there wasn't at least as much incongruency between parental values and societal values. They laugh about the times they were smacked around for being mischievous children WITH their parents. So no, I don't think Asian parents are unloving cruel disciplinarians. It's just inherent of being an immigrant family that creates these problems. ya child abuse is something to laugh about
Strict asian parenting isn't always the case, it's also a stereotype.
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On November 11 2010 13:22 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 13:17 alan25 wrote:On November 11 2010 13:10 d3_crescentia wrote:On November 11 2010 12:30 alan25 wrote:
im asian, im not saying all asians are like this but if you notice how an asian immigrant parent treats their kids its pretty abusive, mostly you see this at a very young age, the kids have to yell to get any attention, you're basically emotionally damaged/distant from the beginning, this goes into the stereotype of "blank face asians" its not because asians are born like that, its because a lot of parents are very abusive and to them (the victims), feeling anything (emotions) is very difficult for anyone who has abusive parents.
"ya but i thought all parents know how to raise their kids with love" this isn't true for asian parents (they literally ignore it or forgotten what love is), i wouldn't call them cowards, but its a very a long cycle that has gone on for centuries, hitting/disciplining is just way a of life for asians (at least to poorer less educated which is a majority) to be shitty and unforgiving.
from what i've seen with my younger cousin (he's 4 now), it seems like he doesn't have much of a grounding (a strong emotionally/happy mother/father to look up to) so the child acts very ill tempered which reflects their own parents. So in turn for the child acting in such a bad manner his parents do hit him on occasion, his mother even talks to mine about i'm actually quoting "you need to bring the child indoors so white people don't see you hitting him", from what i've seen its just another case of a new born loving child confused about why the fuck is everyone around him so shitty i.e "unfun". its just fear over love, im sure a lot of people might have the same issues of trusting someone with your emotions.
as time progresses the child either becomes like his parents (distant emotionally, ignorant), or he can stop being like that and say "fuck it, ill run around naked to prove fearlessness like a raised by love white man" =p This is complete bullshit for one reason - incongruent cultures. If you live in a Western society you get all sorts of conflicting messages from an Asian family versus society at large. Asian culture tells you to study hard and get a well-paying job so you can support a family. Western culture tells you to pursue your individual dreams and damn everybody else. In a Western country where Asian kids adopt Western values, immigrant Asian parents don't know how to handle their rebelliousness except by the way they were dealt with as unruly children - through means that Westerners would fear for getting child services called on them. In the end it only serves to reinforce the image of strict, uncaring, abusive Asian parents, and creates a tension between being filial and "being yourself." The funny thing is that in an Asian country, parents treat their kids this way ALL the time - and guess what? They end up pretty well-adjusted, because there wasn't at least as much incongruency between parental values and societal values. They laugh about the times they were smacked around for being mischievous children WITH their parents. So no, I don't think Asian parents are unloving cruel disciplinarians. It's just inherent of being an immigrant family that creates these problems. ya child abuse is something to laugh about Strict asian parenting isn't always the case, it's also a stereotype.
This whole article is about overblown stereotypes.
In my opinion it's foolish to think that Asians have a limited "social life" compared to any other group, in the same way it's foolish to think that Asians are "smarter" than any other group.
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EPT
