|
On August 08 2011 00:09 Gnosis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 23:48 DisneylandSC wrote:
So the above videos are not recognizable at all for me. I am doing a PhD in math, specifically in optimization, and for me my counsiler already had a topic I was going to be doing research on. Ofcourse within that topic I still have a lot of freedom but whatever.
Either way mayby it is because all the topics in those videos are liberal arts etc. In which, unless you want to continue in academia, there is like no work to be found at all / has no use / is not actually researchable (hence they always refer to math etc.). Although that is already true for their respective bachelors / masters. A PhD in STEM fields is a very different experience from a PhD in non-STEM fields (i.e. humanities). It is, apparently, quite a miserable experience.
And what makes you think this is not true in STEM fields? My friend is graduating this year with PhD in maths at Oxford. And he is damn worried about getting a job. Add to this lack of scholarship for the last year and you get a nice picture. All the points raised in the links you provided are true in smaller or larger extent regardless of PhD program. Even more so than for me doing PhD in econ. Job market for maths is tiny compared to Economics.
Yes, when I graduated from college being ranked top1 in my department and among few top students among my whole class I had those grand expectations. But life had really changed my perspective. The points raised by 0mar are all relevant. I wouldn't be as negative as him but maybe because we are more lucky in Economics regarding job/salary perspective. That is of course if you are good enough.
Regarding amount of work ph.d requires see points 61 and 62 in that blog. They are really really true.
|
On August 08 2011 02:18 Lebesgue wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 00:09 Gnosis wrote:On August 07 2011 23:48 DisneylandSC wrote:
So the above videos are not recognizable at all for me. I am doing a PhD in math, specifically in optimization, and for me my counsiler already had a topic I was going to be doing research on. Ofcourse within that topic I still have a lot of freedom but whatever.
Either way mayby it is because all the topics in those videos are liberal arts etc. In which, unless you want to continue in academia, there is like no work to be found at all / has no use / is not actually researchable (hence they always refer to math etc.). Although that is already true for their respective bachelors / masters. A PhD in STEM fields is a very different experience from a PhD in non-STEM fields (i.e. humanities). It is, apparently, quite a miserable experience. And what makes you think this is not true in STEM fields? My friend is graduating this year with PhD in maths at Oxford. And he is damn worried about getting a job. Add to this lack of scholarship for the last year and you get a nice picture. All the points raised in the links you provided are true in smaller or larger extent regardless of PhD program. Even more so than for me doing PhD in econ. Job market for maths is tiny compared to Economics. Yes, when I graduated from college being ranked top1 in my department and among few top students among my whole class I had those grand expectations. But life had really changed my perspective. The points raised by 0mar are all relevant. I wouldn't be as negative as him but maybe because we are more lucky in Economics regarding job/salary perspective. That is of course if you are good enough. Regarding amount of work ph.d requires see points 61 and 62 in that blog. They are really really true.
the thing is that it depends a lot on the specialization in maths. there are indeed only very few jobs out there for experts in number theory or similar branches of maths. if you are an expert in stochastics, financial economics or stuff like that and are really good at it, then i wouldnt worry too much about getting a job after graduating....
|
On August 08 2011 00:09 Gnosis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 23:48 DisneylandSC wrote:
So the above videos are not recognizable at all for me. I am doing a PhD in math, specifically in optimization, and for me my counsiler already had a topic I was going to be doing research on. Ofcourse within that topic I still have a lot of freedom but whatever.
Either way mayby it is because all the topics in those videos are liberal arts etc. In which, unless you want to continue in academia, there is like no work to be found at all / has no use / is not actually researchable (hence they always refer to math etc.). Although that is already true for their respective bachelors / masters. A PhD in STEM fields is a very different experience from a PhD in non-STEM fields (i.e. humanities). It is, apparently, quite a miserable experience.
Really seems to me it depends on where in the world you are, some of those reasons for example are about how expensive a PhD is. I'm lucky in Ireland, I don't have to pay, and actually get a small grant to survive while I work on my computer science.
|
On August 08 2011 02:50 UltimateHurl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 00:09 Gnosis wrote:On August 07 2011 23:48 DisneylandSC wrote:
So the above videos are not recognizable at all for me. I am doing a PhD in math, specifically in optimization, and for me my counsiler already had a topic I was going to be doing research on. Ofcourse within that topic I still have a lot of freedom but whatever.
Either way mayby it is because all the topics in those videos are liberal arts etc. In which, unless you want to continue in academia, there is like no work to be found at all / has no use / is not actually researchable (hence they always refer to math etc.). Although that is already true for their respective bachelors / masters. A PhD in STEM fields is a very different experience from a PhD in non-STEM fields (i.e. humanities). It is, apparently, quite a miserable experience. Really seems to me it depends on where in the world you are, some of those reasons for example are about how expensive a PhD is. I'm lucky in Ireland, I don't have to pay, and actually get a small grant to survive while I work on my computer science.
Same thing happens here in Brazil, if you are good enough to make it into a public university (which most PhD students are) you study for free and get a small salary to help pay your staying in whichever city the college is located.
BTW, this explanation is incredible!
|
The American school system is far too bureaucratized, in every field, including med and law school. America basically just sucks. 70k a year for law school with room/board and misc. expenses is a joke.
As far as I'm concerned, the only reason to stay in the US is 1. You only speak English, 2. You already have a career here, 3. You like America's system of rights.
Outside of that, America sucks and in the next 50 years the economy is going to get raped and America is going to turn into a gigantic country of services sans production, like Britain has.
|
On August 08 2011 00:09 Gnosis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 23:48 DisneylandSC wrote:
So the above videos are not recognizable at all for me. I am doing a PhD in math, specifically in optimization, and for me my counsiler already had a topic I was going to be doing research on. Ofcourse within that topic I still have a lot of freedom but whatever.
Either way mayby it is because all the topics in those videos are liberal arts etc. In which, unless you want to continue in academia, there is like no work to be found at all / has no use / is not actually researchable (hence they always refer to math etc.). Although that is already true for their respective bachelors / masters. A PhD in STEM fields is a very different experience from a PhD in non-STEM fields (i.e. humanities). It is, apparently, quite a miserable experience.
rofl now that's what I'd call a depressing disheartening blog...hopefully this really does go up to 100, otherwise I'd be afraid that the writer has just killed himself
The problem I see is, that many seem to "expect" something from a PhD, be it prestige, more money or w/e.
To me, writing my dissertation, being in the academic environment is enough reward. I don't care about expensive cars, clothes, houses..and I most certainly don't care about a prestigious "career". I do the PhD 100% for myself (doctorat actually; in Austria we have two different programs, but I'll just refer to it as PhD otherwise it gets to complicated...). I don't expect to get somehow "rewarded" afterwards.
|
its kinda like swearing, it's only bad becuase its commonly agrred that it is.
I feel the same way how the OP goes about the circle graph, but only opposite
|
On August 08 2011 02:59 Ganfei2 wrote:
The American school system is far too bureaucratized, in every field, including med and law school. America basically just sucks. 70k a year for law school with room/board and misc. expenses is a joke.
As far as I'm concerned, the only reason to stay in the US is 1. You only speak English, 2. You already have a career here, 3. You like America's system of rights.
Outside of that, America sucks and in the next 50 years the economy is going to get raped and America is going to turn into a gigantic country of services sans production, like Britain has.
You sound like an extremely learned and dispassionate observer, but what does this have to do with PhDs.
I think there should be a new rule on TL: The 'stop hallucinating that you are Alexis Fucking de Tocqueville' rule.
|
I've penetrated my phd circle a long time ago. FEELS GOOD MAN!
|
On August 08 2011 03:03 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 02:59 Ganfei2 wrote:
The American school system is far too bureaucratized, in every field, including med and law school. America basically just sucks. 70k a year for law school with room/board and misc. expenses is a joke.
As far as I'm concerned, the only reason to stay in the US is 1. You only speak English, 2. You already have a career here, 3. You like America's system of rights.
Outside of that, America sucks and in the next 50 years the economy is going to get raped and America is going to turn into a gigantic country of services sans production, like Britain has. You sound like an extremely learned and dispassionate observer, but what does this have to do with PhDs. I think there should be a new rule on TL: The 'stop hallucinating that you are Alexis Fucking de Tocqueville' rule.
Yeah, because I'm such a biased and uneducated observer and I have no idea about anything
|
On August 08 2011 03:03 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 02:59 Ganfei2 wrote:
The American school system is far too bureaucratized, in every field, including med and law school. America basically just sucks. 70k a year for law school with room/board and misc. expenses is a joke.
As far as I'm concerned, the only reason to stay in the US is 1. You only speak English, 2. You already have a career here, 3. You like America's system of rights.
Outside of that, America sucks and in the next 50 years the economy is going to get raped and America is going to turn into a gigantic country of services sans production, like Britain has. You sound like an extremely learned and dispassionate observer, but what does this have to do with PhDs. I think there should be a new rule on TL: The 'stop hallucinating that you are Alexis Fucking de Tocqueville' rule.
I'd say the big thing is a PhD is a LOT less attractive when you work yourself into big debt getting it, so the US is going to bleed talented postgrad-seekers who leave to work elsewhere. I mean I wouldn't necessarily agree with the third point(I'd say the main reason to come to the US to do a PhD is so you can work with specific places or people) but they are the external factors that really do have an impact, unfortunately.
|
On August 08 2011 02:18 Lebesgue wrote:Job market for maths is tiny compared to Economics.
Any math Ph.D from a good school can get a (worst-case) high-paying actuarial job or a (best-case) very high-paying hedge fund/quantitative finance job.
The academic job market is pretty brutal, of course.
|
On August 08 2011 19:29 blah_blah wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 02:18 Lebesgue wrote:Job market for maths is tiny compared to Economics. Any math Ph.D from a good school can get a (worst-case) high-paying actuarial job or a (best-case) very high-paying hedge fund/quantitative finance job. The academic job market is pretty brutal, of course.
Why would they be able to do actuarial work? From what I can tell its not pure math by any stretch of the imagination, there's a lot of econ/stat/mgmt type stuff. Plus they'd have to start taking the tests just like everyone else without of the focused preparation of someone with an actuarial science degree
On August 08 2011 16:40 Ganfei2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 03:03 Jerubaal wrote:On August 08 2011 02:59 Ganfei2 wrote:
The American school system is far too bureaucratized, in every field, including med and law school. America basically just sucks. 70k a year for law school with room/board and misc. expenses is a joke.
As far as I'm concerned, the only reason to stay in the US is 1. You only speak English, 2. You already have a career here, 3. You like America's system of rights.
Outside of that, America sucks and in the next 50 years the economy is going to get raped and America is going to turn into a gigantic country of services sans production, like Britain has. You sound like an extremely learned and dispassionate observer, but what does this have to do with PhDs. I think there should be a new rule on TL: The 'stop hallucinating that you are Alexis Fucking de Tocqueville' rule. Yeah, because I'm such a biased and uneducated observer and I have no idea about anything
That is what we all think, yes.
|
Depending on which subject you get your PhD in, you actually get paid a stipend and all of your tuition is paid for; this typically applies to science/engineering fields. In terms of getting a job, it definitely depends on what your field is. I am a PhD student in chemical engineering, and while another student that I know in the same department who specializes in reverse osmosis membranes is having issues finding a job since she's overqualified, there are others who specialize in process control, semiconductor manufacturing, or biotech who have a much easier time finding a job since the demand for educated individuals is there in those fields.
In my own personal experience, what I learned in undergraduate is only the surface of chemical engineering; in graduate school I pretty much picked what I was interested in and learned it in much much greater detail while setting aside the topics that I didn't care for. To anyone who thinks that this is a pointless waste of time, I just point to what some of my friends who work in the (semiconductor) industry have told me: that it's much more difficult to get promoted if you only have a BS degree. Now, take what I say with a grain of salt because I don't have knowledge of many other fields but I believe it's similar for biotechnology companies.
Honestly, it's very very case-by-case specific and not black and white as a lot of people are claiming.
|
I love this circle idea, so creative
|
On August 09 2011 15:10 n.DieJokes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:29 blah_blah wrote:On August 08 2011 02:18 Lebesgue wrote:Job market for maths is tiny compared to Economics. Any math Ph.D from a good school can get a (worst-case) high-paying actuarial job or a (best-case) very high-paying hedge fund/quantitative finance job. The academic job market is pretty brutal, of course. Why would they be able to do actuarial work? From what I can tell its not pure math by any stretch of the imagination, there's a lot of econ/stat/mgmt type stuff. Plus they'd have to start taking the tests just like everyone else without of the focused preparation of someone with an actuarial science degree
Without wanting to sound arrogant, anyone capable of getting a math Ph.D from a good school should be able to breeze through the first few exams at the very least, with fairly minimal preparation. An actuarial science degree is fairly rigorous as undergraduate degrees go, but it's basically impossible to compare the level of quantitative ability required to complete a major in actuarial science with that required to complete a Ph.D at a top school. Quantitative skills transfer well; having 99.9+th percentile quantitative skills means that the 'focused preparation' that one would receive in the course of an actuarial science degree is not necessary.
|
On August 09 2011 18:54 blah_blah wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 15:10 n.DieJokes wrote:On August 08 2011 19:29 blah_blah wrote:On August 08 2011 02:18 Lebesgue wrote:Job market for maths is tiny compared to Economics. Any math Ph.D from a good school can get a (worst-case) high-paying actuarial job or a (best-case) very high-paying hedge fund/quantitative finance job. The academic job market is pretty brutal, of course. Why would they be able to do actuarial work? From what I can tell its not pure math by any stretch of the imagination, there's a lot of econ/stat/mgmt type stuff. Plus they'd have to start taking the tests just like everyone else without of the focused preparation of someone with an actuarial science degree Without wanting to sound arrogant, anyone capable of getting a math Ph.D from a good school should be able to breeze through the first few exams at the very least, with fairly minimal preparation. An actuarial science degree is fairly rigorous as undergraduate degrees go, but it's basically impossible to compare the level of quantitative ability required to complete a major in actuarial science with that required to complete a Ph.D at a top school. Quantitative skills transfer well; having 99.9+th percentile quantitative skills means that the 'focused preparation' that one would receive in the course of an actuarial science degree is not necessary.
I don't think anyone would doubt that a math phd has the capability to become an actuary. But their phd work, most likely, did not prepare them to be an actuary. They'll still have to study like a fresh undergraduate (perhaps less so as you mention, but they will need to put in some effort). And at the end of the day, they'll start at roughly the same place as the undergraduate that started being an actuary from the beginning.
At this point, one would wonder if it the phd was "worth it" from a career standpoint. In other words, is it better to be placed higher in the company as a fresh phd vs. having the 5-7 years of career experience and advancement by starting after undergrad? In most cases like this where the job you land can be achieved by someone with a lesser degree, it makes more sense to pursue the latter rather than the former.
|
Hmm....here PhD trick....if u smoke and drink a lot u live longer....ever notice people who workout tromendously and take care of themselves...die sooner? then those who enjoy themselves?....food for thought
|
On August 09 2011 22:08 iamtrickster wrote:
Hmm....here PhD trick....if u smoke and drink a lot u live longer....ever notice people who workout tromendously and take care of themselves...die sooner? then those who enjoy themselves?....food for thought
wow, just wow... where, might I ask, did you get this stagering information?
|
On August 09 2011 22:08 iamtrickster wrote:
Hmm....here PhD trick....if u smoke and drink a lot u live longer....ever notice people who workout tromendously and take care of themselves...die sooner? then those who enjoy themselves?....food for thought
What is this I don't even......
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
