EPTWhat is a PhD? - Page 11
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vasatko2
Czech Republic28 Posts
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Archas
United States6531 Posts
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Sorkoas
549 Posts
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0mar
United States567 Posts
Whenever anyone wants to go into research science, I tell them to do the research carefully. If you like science, go into pharmacy or medicine, as in PharmD or MD/DO. You'll end up working the same amount of hours, but at least at the end you have a stable, well-paying job. For example, a typical MD has 4 years of med school, 3 years of residency and then has the option to practice medicine or go for a fellowship for another 2 years. The total training time is 7-9 years at the most. However, when you go this route, you are guaranteed a well-paying job in the neighborhood of 150 - 250K. A PhD takes 5-6 year to complete, then 2-4+ years of post-doc, which is 7-10+ years. But there's a huge amount of uncertainty because of how the grant system works, how funding works, whether or not your project works, etc etc. If everything goes absolutely perfect, you can secure yourself a tenure-track position where you have to work 60-80 hours a week to earn enough grants to get tenure, if not, it's back to the job search. At the best, you can earn 70k if everything goes smoothly. If there's any hiccups along the way (grant funding runs out, project goes no where, don't get high-quality papers, etc etc), you are going to spend even more time trying to get back on the treadmill. Bottom line, research science in America is an absolute mess. If you like science, go into pharmacy or medicine as a practitioner. It's honestly as simple as that. Also, if you say money doesn't matter, you are retarded. Maybe when your 22 and getting 2k a month is amazing. Then 6 years later, you're still making 2k a month while the stupidest idiots (mentally, not career-wise, because they are 10x smarter than you) from college are making 10k a month because they had the foresight to go into medicine, pharmacy or business. And if you want to actually get independent, good fucking luck doing that on a post-doc's salary. After taxes + student loan repayments (you can't defer while a post-doc, but you can as a grad student), you pull in only 2.5k a month. Forget about kids, that new car, or even a comfortable living space. Saying that money doesn't matter shows how immature you are because money is extremely important. Maybe not right after you graduate, when you're all idealistic and doe-eyed, but 5 years or 10 years down the line, when you are still living in a dingy apartment, driving that same old car, and wearing the same clothes, then money will matter a whole fucking lot. Why do you think the competition to get into pharmacy or into med school is so tough? It's because the pay is so good. The prestige doesn't hurt either. | ||
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SaYyId
Portugal277 Posts
After you finish college, your life as a young person ends and for the majority of people it's time to get a fucking job. DUDE! What the fuck! Spoiler tag please! | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
On August 04 2011 16:54 Cpt Obvious wrote: That picture is highly inaccurate. The "specialization spear" needs to be way narrower  At least it's that way in physics. We have guys here where not even their professor gets what exactly they are doing, they're that specialized. Some of them do stuff that only 3 other people on the whole planet understand, sometimes they're the only one doing research in that field. On the other hand, it's nice to be able to call yourself the 3rd best *insert ridiculously narrow field of research here* researcher if the competition is that fierce. I agree that this picture is highly inaccurate. Specializations are super narrow. There is nobody at my university who does research in my topic. There are probably around 20 people who did at some point research in this topic. And the hardest thing about PhD? There are many: 1. Accumulating insane amount of knowledge in short time - and it is never ending story; you are learning all the time - non-stop. 2. Insane amount of hours you have to put in both learning and then doing your research. Most people work 50 hours per week by which I mean proper work (reading, learning, writing); this amounts easily to around 70 hours a week. It's not uncommon to put more hours. At one point I was at the uni around 90 hours a week. Now I'm down to 60-70. 3. Difficulty - the stuff is so damn hard - progress is super slow. It's so easy to get super frustrated. I wanted to quit so many time. But I endured and currently have 3 almost finished papers and started working on my 4th one. That's my experience from Economics | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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DueSs
United States765 Posts
On August 07 2011 12:29 Slaughter wrote: Yea I agree with this economy PhD has become insanely competitive...Its even worse in my field (social sciences-Bio Anthropology) because social sciences often get less funding then hard sciences and they are among the first to get the axe. I am just finishing my Masters degree currently and one of the programs that I want to apply to got over 800 apps for 3 PhD slots. :\ Ugh. agreed. PhD in December in Natural Resources. What's bad is that while I can't find anything for my field (as I'm looking hard right now.. 4 months until my diploma), I'm also overqualified for many jobs I've been steadily applying to. I've been told by 3 employers that I'm over qualified for the position and they were looking in another direction. It's quite discouraging. Hopefully I'll find a post-doc. =[ | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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skirmisheR
Sweden451 Posts
I think it's the same when starting learning starcraft (of course, anything). The exception is that you have to start over again when a new patch comes  Thanks for pictures once again bro, gave me something to think about | ||
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Ashes
United States362 Posts
On August 06 2011 18:36 stevarius wrote: Since you're actually involved with a PHD, I have to ask: What do you even do in getting your PHD? Is it research? What exactly does it entail(can be specifically for you)? The PhD degree at George Mason University (Systems Engg and Operations research) is a 72 credit course program (after your bachelors). Out of these 24 credits are purely dedicated to research in the form of project dissertation (similar to thesis only more complex and time consuming). a PhD degree is something which you should design for yourself as as medium of focusing your career in a particular direction (sort of a subject matter expert). So in my case, I am into Civil Aviation and my area of focus is Airport Surveillance Operations and Management. | ||
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Malgrif
Canada1095 Posts
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slytown
Korea (South)1411 Posts
On September 15 2010 13:43 TallMax wrote: So basically what I'm saying is that having a PhD is like sitting at the forefront of a lot of knowledge AND being able to do something interesting with it, either to gain more knowledge or to create something useful to people. Speaking from experience in a master's degree in history and currently writing a thesis, this is pretty spot on. Higher education is completely different from most student's experience with a B.A. The guidelines given to you by your instructors are minimal and it's really up to you to make the lessons what they are. Instructors simply guide the discussion if it goes off course, correct mistakes with the material being studied, and ask questions that need to be asked. This is what graduate level courses are like. On top of that, you have to write and research. A lot! The problem is at my institution the effort required of you varies. I would say 75% of my colleagues in my MA program (I finished my coursework last year) didn't belong there. They either didn't understand historiography or would not put in the effort. If ur thinking about a PhD, whatever field that may be, make sure you are passionate about it. PhDs can lead to many jobs, but the most often is professor. If you love the field, it's the best job you can have. You can write whatever you want to write about, teach classes you like, and gain access to the best of research materials. PhDs are expensive, they usually require lots of funding, and the pay afterwards is mediocre. But, the rewards are incalcuable. On August 07 2011 12:33 DueSs wrote: Ugh. agreed. PhD in December in Natural Resources. What's bad is that while I can't find anything for my field (as I'm looking hard right now.. 4 months until my diploma), I'm also overqualified for many jobs I've been steadily applying to. I've been told by 3 employers that I'm over qualified for the position and they were looking in another direction. It's quite discouraging. Hopefully I'll find a post-doc. =[ I've had the same issue. I recently got fired from a job I was qualified for and haven't been able to find work in my area. I've applied for so many places but after talking with a friend of mine who has been told stright up he was overqulaified for several jobs, I'm starting think I'm getting turned down for the same reasons. Damnit this economy. | ||
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RaLakedaimon
United States1564 Posts
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aurum510
United States229 Posts
In my company, all the PhD engineers are put on the architecture team, where they aren't allowed to do any real engineering, because they have no real experience engineering anything relevant. And because they have a PhD they won't take a real engineering job. I could see how PhDs in Science would be more relevant though. | ||
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Ashes
United States362 Posts
On August 07 2011 13:19 aurum510 wrote: Psh. All the engineers I know with PhDs are complete morons. I'd take some engineer with a bachelors or masters over some PhD idiot. In my company, all the PhD engineers are put on the architecture team, where they aren't allowed to do any real engineering, because they have no real experience engineering anything relevant. And because they have a PhD they won't take a real engineering job. I could see how PhDs in Science would be more relevant though. Define Real Engineering?? and Please do not Google! If you mean engineering is sitting from 9-5 and developing applications by writing tons and tons of code. then I am sorry you DO NOT know what engineering means. And ohh when a PhD is placed into an architecture team, that means they have the skills (which bachelors might not possess). Now I have done my bachelors and my masters and after having an industry experience of about 2 years decided to pursue my PhD because, sitting like a MORON and coding whole day is pretty useless. But being a software or a system architect, Man its challenging! | ||
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Cr4zyH0r5e
Peru1308 Posts
I also want a JD. What I was told by one of my professors is that if I want the PhD: I either get concurrently with the JD, or get it first, because once I'm a lawyer, I'll be too busy making money (or trying to) to worry about philosophy. TBH I'm not sure what to think about a PhD in the sciences. My dad has a PhD in biochemistry and most of his research and published texts are about oranges. I'm not sure how interesting that is, or who cares about oranges, but it landed him a job; he worked as a professor at a university as well as overseeing a lab that focused on nutritional development (Fancy wording for a 'University-sponsored bakery'). Mind you, this is in Peru, and I wouldn't think they have an overwhelming number of PhD's around. I guess what I'm trying to say is: Are PhD's in Science really more relevant? I agree with some of the people in this thread. MD is the way to go. There's something really wrong with healthcare and doctors earning the ridiculous amounts they do; the thing is: not everyone might care about the development of knowledge in particular areas, but no one wants to die. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
On August 07 2011 13:43 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote: I want a PhD in philosophy, focusing on either epistemology or ethics, really, really bad. I also want a JD. What I was told by one of my professors is that if I want the PhD: I either get concurrently with the JD, or get it first, because once I'm a lawyer, I'll be too busy making money (or trying to) to worry about philosophy. TBH I'm not sure what to think about a PhD in the sciences. My dad has a PhD in biochemistry and most of his research and published texts are about oranges. I'm not sure how interesting that is, or who cares about oranges, but it landed him a job; he worked as a professor at a university as well as overseeing a lab that focused on nutritional development (Fancy wording for a 'University-sponsored bakery'). Mind you, this is in Peru, and I wouldn't think they have an overwhelming number of PhD's around. I guess what I'm trying to say is: Are PhD's in Science really more relevant? I agree with some of the people in this thread. MD is the way to go. There's something really wrong with healthcare and doctors earning the ridiculous amounts they do; the thing is: not everyone might care about the development of knowledge in particular areas, but no one wants to die. In terms of opening up career opportunities, Philosophy seems to be one of the most useless PhD's from what I've seen... I would probably have to agree with your professors that if you ever do become a lawyer, you're most likely going to realize your time is much better spent making money on that end than going through the effort to pursue something with so little reward (other than perhaps self satisfaction which isn't necessarily a bad thing). I suppose there's something to be said about higher education, but practically speaking, most people are much more satisfied with being able to buy more stuff. | ||
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akalarry
United States1978 Posts
On August 07 2011 13:43 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote: I want a PhD in philosophy, focusing on either epistemology or ethics, really, really bad. I also want a JD. What I was told by one of my professors is that if I want the PhD: I either get concurrently with the JD, or get it first, because once I'm a lawyer, I'll be too busy making money (or trying to) to worry about philosophy. TBH I'm not sure what to think about a PhD in the sciences. My dad has a PhD in biochemistry and most of his research and published texts are about oranges. I'm not sure how interesting that is, or who cares about oranges, but it landed him a job; he worked as a professor at a university as well as overseeing a lab that focused on nutritional development (Fancy wording for a 'University-sponsored bakery'). Mind you, this is in Peru, and I wouldn't think they have an overwhelming number of PhD's around. I guess what I'm trying to say is: Are PhD's in Science really more relevant? I agree with some of the people in this thread. MD is the way to go. There's something really wrong with healthcare and doctors earning the ridiculous amounts they do; the thing is: not everyone might care about the development of knowledge in particular areas, but no one wants to die. you're not supposed to get a phd thinking you're gonna make money. most people (at least ppl around me) are smart enough now to know that. people i know going to grad school do it cuz they are genuinely interested in what they do, not cuz they think getting a phd will make them millions. those people go into medicine, or try to make it big with a business/economics degree. medicine is the more "practical" choice. (real life stable job) if you wanna get into the corporate world of science, such as biotech and pharmaceutical companies, then you definitely need a phd to get anywhere up the ladder. everyone on the management team of such companies have phds (if the job is science related). doing corporate is hard though. my dad always told me it's like trying to catch 10 birds in a tree, while being in medicine is having 2 birds in your hands. | ||
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