EPTFact of the matter is, the job market for PhDs (or, if you like, for anything) is extremely over-saturated right now, and one'd most likely have to look into jobs which have varying degrees of relation to one's PhD.
What is a PhD? - Page 15
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
Fact of the matter is, the job market for PhDs (or, if you like, for anything) is extremely over-saturated right now, and one'd most likely have to look into jobs which have varying degrees of relation to one's PhD. | ||
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Reasonable
Ukraine1432 Posts
On August 13 2011 01:35 Bibdy wrote: Getting a PHD requires creativity. Something a lot of people lack, something a lot of people can only obtain through hammering their head against a wall for a long time, and something a very small number of people can do at the flick of a wrist. I fall somewhere between the first and second category, depending on the topic. I knew absolutely for sure that going for a PHD after my Masters in Physics w/ Electronics would have been a completely futile gesture. I just wasn't interested and wasn't creative enough in any area to bother with it. Quoted for truth! Creativity is one of the reasons why I pursued PhD. I don't know how old you guys are, I'm 25, but I've been through enough jobs to realize that if it is not creative, it is a matter of time until you quit. Life is just not worth it to spend it on routine. And that is not just my opinion. I've attended some psychological seminars (which was a part of a research as well), and I have to tell you that it reflects the stance of many many educated people. There is only so much you can do to make a life brighter: travel, climb mountains, visit night clubs in Netherlands or Moscow, but when you get a family and find yourself pinned down, you need your job to be creative. I'm not saying that PhD is for everyone, but in every one's life there is a moment when it is beneficial to do a research. Even if profession doesn't require it. But some professions just do. In economics, it is almost mandatory to have research skills to get a decent job. I follow this couple of guys at Wall Street Journal, and they do some crazy research for their articles. I almost wonder if they know they could get a PhD for that. Their articles are always on the front page and on TV. But others just state facts and they get paid shit accordingly. I'm sure they also want to get first page space, but their work is crap, they just don't have skills. I don't know their biographies, but I'm sure they'd do a better job if they were taught to reason philosophically. | ||
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Eternalmisfit
United States643 Posts
More often that not it is a toss up between (i) Working in your area of interest where there is little or no funding (or) Working in the whatever project has the most funding so you don't have to do part-time work, TA, etc to sustain yourself. (ii) Working in an area where you can contribute to scientific research and knowledge (or) Working in an industrial problem that has little to do with research but guarantees you a job due to the applied skills gained during the PhD. It is not as black and white as I am making it out to be and I am probably jaded but actual scientific research these days is being replaced by short-term focused 'research' which deals with some aspect of the industrial problem. In a sense, due to the funding model, university research is becoming more of an R&D division for the industry than a place where people pursue research (if I may) that actually pokes on the wall of the circle of knowledge in the OP. This one of the reasons that engineering PhDs usually have an easier time acquiring a job than some of the pure science PhDs. This is generally not a bad thing but I just wanted to point out that some of broad generalized statements made in this thread are not necessarily true. A PhD is more than just working in an area of expertise. Of course, after working for 5 years in your niche area, you will be an expert with only 10's of peers in specific area and even an expert with peers in several 100s or 1000's in a broader area across the world. However, it goes beyond just the knowledge as 5 years of graduate school research provides valuable experience in research method, independent thought, communication skills, presentation skills, and so on. Even though, you might lack creativity in your PhD, you would end up being a rather well rounded person at the end of it. My advice to those thinking about doing a PhD is that if you want to get a doctorate to make more money, it is terrible justification to do a PhD and you are better off getting out after a masters at max. My friends who start working straight after bachelors/masters are making a considerable amount and even though I might get a slightly higher starting payscale (which is dependent on numerous factors), I probably won't be able to recover the loss of not working for 5 years. On the other hand, if you are not interested in regular office jobs that you get after a bachelors and so on, are passionate about research, and want to eventually work in R&D, a PhD is pretty much a must have to break into this field. As I mentioned at the start, there will always be trade-offs and compromises made during the course of the PhD on the research topic, method, and application; but as long as you working in the broader field of interest; it is always possible to pursue the niche area of interest as a side project while working on the more pragmatic project as your thesis work. At the end of 5 years, I am happy/satisfied with my decision to do a PhD but at the same time if I knew what I know at the start of it, I could have made some better choices along the way. I think I have rambled on a bit too much here but hopefully I have been to provide some insight into a PhD here. | ||
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
Is it 'bigger' if you get it in, let's say, Cambridge than Helsinki? Paris or Milan? I'm believing that it's more or less the same, then if you become a professor you can publish more important stuff and maybe more prestigious universities will ask you to come to teach. Do you know if that's how it works? | ||
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Hyperbola
United States2534 Posts
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Deleuze
United Kingdom2102 Posts
On September 04 2013 22:32 SoSexy wrote: So, in few months I'll have to start considering where to go for a PhD in Philosophy. Since my goal is to become a professor, I guess this is the only way to go. I'm not afraid of moving to other countries/cities, but I wonder if it is really important where do you get your PhD. Is it 'bigger' if you get it in, let's say, Cambridge than Helsinki? Paris or Milan? I'm believing that it's more or less the same, then if you become a professor you can publish more important stuff and maybe more prestigious universities will ask you to come to teach. Do you know if that's how it works? Depends upon a WHOLE range of factors such as funding, supervisors, research institutes, quality of research (is it international?), industry links (where appropriate), specialisms of academic staff, resources available to you, teaching opportunities, an active graduate school and research community etc. etc. The reputation of the institution is one thing, but this will mean very little if, for example, your supervisor co-publishes all your work or if you’re told “thank you for your money, now come back in three years when you’ve written your thesis.” Think about how better off you will be when you complete if you have two years teaching experience, a journal publication and three paper presentations under your belt and a 5-year career plan compared to someone that JUST went to a high rep. Uni. Always ask about completion rates too. As a PhD/DPhil candidate you NEED to be active in researching what makes your prospective institution best for yoru needs. That said, all the above should ‘hopefully’ come with a good rep institution, Philosophy is not my field so I’d suggest you start out by finding out which research institutes have the most recognised outputs and then begin to find out what kinds of support they have on offer and what other kinds of added value they can give you as a prospective candidate. GL luck on your PhD! | ||
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NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
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shaftofpleasure
Korea (North)1375 Posts
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zul
Germany5427 Posts
Answer: + Show Spoiler + no. listen here for the real explanation  | ||
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Hadronsbecrazy
United Kingdom551 Posts
How does funding work for a PhD? Do you have to look for sponsors outside the universiy or does the university provide you with funding? Any advice you guys can give me? Do we need lots of research projects during the summer to help? | ||
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GhastlyUprising
198 Posts
For a while I was extremely depressed with this state of affairs. As it happens, though, it turned out to be a cloud with a silver lining. I never had to follow a supervisor, so I was free to work on my own projects. I continued to study and research physics, yet I branched out into software development to give myself some diversity and a fall-back option if it ever happened that my physics dreams were crushed. I got an idea for an AI program in handwriting recognition and my physics skills were invaluable in seeing that project through. At this point, I have work that I'm extremely proud of in both entangled systems and artifical intelligence. I anticipate that I'll meet with some external success soon. I'm hoping to get published in a physics journal or get a place on PhD. After spending so much time alone in the "dark tunnel" (I'm in my late 20s now), I can hardly think of anything I'd like better than some peers and some community. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On September 04 2013 23:38 Hadronsbecrazy wrote: Hey guys, Im considering doing a PhD but was wondering, what kind of degree did you get for your undergrad? a first class equivalent? (Im studying in the UK) I really want to do one just because im interested in learning more , but my grades arent great, Im nearing a First class but still not quite a first class and Ive got 2 years left. I reckon with hard work I can get that First class. How does funding work for a PhD? Do you have to look for sponsors outside the universiy or does the university provide you with funding? Any advice you guys can give me? Do we need lots of research projects during the summer to help? I can't answer your questions because I'm not familiar with the UK's education system. If it's anything like here, you can get grants if you're good, or borrow money from the government if you need it to pay for your studies and at least part of your rent/food/etc. Besides that, you may need to work a couple of hours on the side, although perhaps it's not necessarily where you need depending on the quality of student aid. There are very few "sponsors" outside of the university and the government, besides actually working, unless you're particularly good. If you're good (LIKE MAH SELF), people will toss jobs and internships at you, some of which can be credited as courses and go toward getting your degree. That said I'm mostly answering because I thought it was kind of funny... "Hey guys, kinda thinking of picking up one of these, how are the specs? Is it better than the iphone?" | ||
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Deleuze
United Kingdom2102 Posts
On September 04 2013 23:38 Hadronsbecrazy wrote: Hey guys, Im considering doing a PhD but was wondering, what kind of degree did you get for your undergrad? a first class equivalent? (Im studying in the UK) I really want to do one just because im interested in learning more , but my grades arent great, Im nearing a First class but still not quite a first class and Ive got 2 years left. I reckon with hard work I can get that First class. How does funding work for a PhD? Do you have to look for sponsors outside the universiy or does the university provide you with funding? Any advice you guys can give me? Do we need lots of research projects during the summer to help? Your first port of call is prospective Universities. For the past several years now Research Council funding goes directly to Universities in a ‘funding block’ which works out as a set number of PhD/DPhil studentships (in previous years individual students applied directly to the Research Council). If your University doesn’t have a funding block you will not get funding from a research council, and block funding is HIGHLY competitive. In addition to this Universities may also have their own partial or even full fee grants, sometimes available on a means-tested basis. Corporate or charitable sponsors may also approach Universities with money to issue a certain number of grants available to students, again there may/will be eligibility criteria. Currently there is no mainstream govern loan system for postgraduate study (Research Council funding is via a grant) in the UK. A career development loan from a bank would be an alternative, as would private sponsors such as employers or charities, but again they are likely to have eligibility criteria. If you are study Full-Time in the UK on a BA/BSc and are getting close to 1sts in your first year you should be well on track to get a 1st in your final result if you keep up the hard work and continue to improve; typically your first year’s grades do not count to your overall result, you only need to pass (however do check this with your institution). It will depend upon your field and expertise, and professional experience, but generally it would be expected for you to go from Bachelors to Masters and then to Doctoral study. | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
On September 04 2013 23:38 Hadronsbecrazy wrote: Hey guys, Im considering doing a PhD but was wondering, what kind of degree did you get for your undergrad? a first class equivalent? (Im studying in the UK) I really want to do one just because im interested in learning more , but my grades arent great, Im nearing a First class but still not quite a first class and Ive got 2 years left. I reckon with hard work I can get that First class. How does funding work for a PhD? Do you have to look for sponsors outside the universiy or does the university provide you with funding? Any advice you guys can give me? Do we need lots of research projects during the summer to help? I'm not an expert since I'm still doing my undergrad degree but my understanding is that a first isn't required to do a PhD, a 2:1 is sufficient. Obviously having a first is beneficial though. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On September 04 2013 22:32 SoSexy wrote: So, in few months I'll have to start considering where to go for a PhD in Philosophy. Since my goal is to become a professor, I guess this is the only way to go. I'm not afraid of moving to other countries/cities, but I wonder if it is really important where do you get your PhD. Is it 'bigger' if you get it in, let's say, Cambridge than Helsinki? Paris or Milan? I'm believing that it's more or less the same, then if you become a professor you can publish more important stuff and maybe more prestigious universities will ask you to come to teach. Do you know if that's how it works? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I was considering a Ph.D. in philosophy before I went military, and where you go has a HUGE effect on your future prospects for a job. Getting your Ph.D. at a Rutgers/NYU/Oxford/MIT/U Mich Ann Arbor/etc. looks really good. What you need to be looking for is this; who are you working with when you get your Ph.D.? The name of the institution isn't the thing that matters, but the names of the people that you worked with and learned from. Being able to say that you worked with (for example) Philip Kitcher when your dissertation was on philosophy of science/epistemology of science (one of our most recent faculty appointments at the college I went to) while studying can be a massive boon to your job search. http://www.philosophicalgourmet.com/ Use this website. It is a general ranking of universities based on philosophy specialties. Great resource to see where you should aim for. It's a very tough market out there for philosophy professors. There were two new jobs that opened up at my college over the past 5 years or so and each one had over 300 applicants. One (for political philosophy/epistemology) was from Columbia and the other was from the University of Western Ontario. | ||
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spectres
United Kingdom88 Posts
On September 04 2013 23:38 Hadronsbecrazy wrote: Hey guys, Im considering doing a PhD but was wondering, what kind of degree did you get for your undergrad? a first class equivalent? (Im studying in the UK) I really want to do one just because im interested in learning more , but my grades arent great, Im nearing a First class but still not quite a first class and Ive got 2 years left. I reckon with hard work I can get that First class. How does funding work for a PhD? Do you have to look for sponsors outside the universiy or does the university provide you with funding? Any advice you guys can give me? Do we need lots of research projects during the summer to help? I got a PhD position with a 2:1, it's certainly possible. Deleuze pretty much summed it up, but I have one thing to add. The reason I got my PhD position was because I engaged my third year lecturers in debate and conversation and challenged them when they weren't explaining something properly. I don't mean during lectures with 200-300 people watching but during the smaller classes / practical sessions. That way I got to know one lecturer who was very successful and received a number of research grants every year (although I didn't know it at the time, I was just being stubborn). These research grants normally come with 1 or 2 PhD positions attached to them and low-and-behold I was offered one of them. tl;dr do a project/classes with a professor who publishes a lot of good papers and get yourself noticed | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On September 04 2013 23:45 GhastlyUprising wrote: I wanted to do a PhD in theoretical physics, but I didn't get the grades. I'm passionate about physics, really studious, and I'm certain based on my interactions with them that I know more about physics than most PhD students. Unfortunately, I'm too much of a "free spirit" when it comes to study and during my time at university I kept going off on things that interested me. I would study for "my sake" rather than for getting good grades. It ended up that my grades weren't good enough to stand a chance of a funded place on a PhD. For a while I was extremely depressed with this state of affairs. As it happens, though, it turned out to be a cloud with a silver lining. I never had to follow a supervisor, so I was free to work on my own projects. I continued to study and research physics, yet I branched out into software development to give myself some diversity and a fall-back option if it ever happened that my physics dreams were crushed. I got an idea for an AI program in handwriting recognition and my physics skills were invaluable in seeing that project through. At this point, I have work that I'm extremely proud of in both entangled systems and artifical intelligence. I anticipate that I'll meet with some external success soon. I'm hoping to get published in a physics journal or get a place on PhD. After spending so much time alone in the "dark tunnel" (I'm in my late 20s now), I can hardly think of anything I'd like better than some peers and some community. Hi! I did a PhD in particle physics (phenomenology). Not quite what you are looking for maybe, but close enough for me to give some input I think. To get a PhD position, you need something more concrete than work that you are impressed by yourself, or your own opinion that you know more physics than others. Anyone can say that (not saying you lie, just that it won't hold in an interview). You need some way of proving that you will do well in a PhD, such as good grades on at least a few of the high level courses, or a good recommendation letter from your masters supervisor, published papers in a decent journal, or something like that. Problem is that there are too many lunatics around in theoretical physics, people that are convinced that they have found some brilliant solution that everyone else have overlooked. I got myself (and still get) frequent mails from people trying to push their brilliant (but surprisingly not published in a serious peer-reviewed paper...) ideas onto me. Only because my PhD gave me an email and small homepage on the theoretical physics webpage... With your background of working alone for a long time (as I understand), it is very important that you prove that you are not one of them. And to do that, you really need others in the field to review your work and pass their impression on to your potential PhD employer. Examples are the ones I mentioned above: grades on a course, recommendation letter, or decision to publish your work in a decent journal. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On September 04 2013 22:32 SoSexy wrote: So, in few months I'll have to start considering where to go for a PhD in Philosophy. Since my goal is to become a professor, I guess this is the only way to go. I'm not afraid of moving to other countries/cities, but I wonder if it is really important where do you get your PhD. Is it 'bigger' if you get it in, let's say, Cambridge than Helsinki? Paris or Milan? I'm believing that it's more or less the same, then if you become a professor you can publish more important stuff and maybe more prestigious universities will ask you to come to teach. Do you know if that's how it works? First a word of caution: it is extremely hard to get a permanent position in research. I also imagine that philosophy may not be most funded area around (although that is only my guess, I am happy to be wrong on this). If you want to go for research in philosophy, by all means do. But: keep in mind that you may change your mind, or you may find the road to a permanent position to be too hard, and at that point you want to have alternatives. So check up carefully (ask staff at your uni) what kind of work (outside academia) you can get with a philosophy PhD, and consider choosing place and area of research with this in mind. (For example maybe ethics will give you more industry work than history of philosophy, what do I know?) Otherwise, yes, it is important to get a good group, good supervisor and good project for your PhD. A good PhD record (good publications, good connections with other groups, and not least a better understand that you got from your great supervisor) makes it sooo much easier to get a good postdoc. With a crappy PhD, you have to fight your way back up again as postdoc, which is possible, but requires a lot more work. How to find a good group? Ummm, I am not senior enough to give you a good answer I think... Ask the people at your uni, they can tell you (unless they are a crappy group themselves that is  ).glgl | ||
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GhastlyUprising
198 Posts
On September 05 2013 00:46 Cascade wrote: Thanks for the condescension, but the reason I'm proud of my work is that I believe it's objectively an important contribution to the discipline. You're damn right I'm determined to get it published. I consider it to be far more consequential than the average PhD work, which does nothing but slightly further the ideas of the supervisor and disappears into a drawer somewhere immediately after it is defended. (Condescension works both ways, you know.)To get a PhD position, you need something more concrete than work that you are impressed by yourself, or your own opinion that you know more physics than others. Anyone can say that (not saying you lie, just that it won't hold in an interview). You need some way of proving that you will do well in a PhD, such as good grades on at least a few of the high level courses, or a good recommendation letter from your masters supervisor, published papers in a decent journal, or something like that. On September 05 2013 00:46 Cascade wrote:Problem is that there are too many lunatics around in theoretical physics, people that are convinced that they have found some brilliant solution that everyone else have overlooked. I got myself (and still get) frequent mails from people trying to push their brilliant (but surprisingly not published in a serious peer-reviewed paper...) ideas onto me. Only because my PhD gave me an email and small homepage on the theoretical physics webpage... With your background of working alone for a long time (as I understand), it is very important that you prove that you are not one of them. And to do that, you really need others in the field to review your work and pass their impression on to your potential PhD employer. Examples are the ones I mentioned above: grades on a course, recommendation letter, or decision to publish your work in a decent journal. My reaction to this paragraph is that you've just committed the scientific analogue of the right-wing scaremongering about a council estate full of welfare queens with ten kids and a Porsche parked up the drive-way.You wilfully conflate innocent emails by some enthusiast, asking whether such-and-such a wild speculation is borne out by academic physics, with a 50 page dissertation by some zealous crank about why general relativity is wrong. Why should someone be dismissed as a crank merely because of the fact (unavoidable from his point of view) that he isn't a paid-up member of the academic inner-circle? Shouldn't his work speak for itself? Isn't the precedent of Einstein, and the dozens of independent gentlemen scientists in the 19th century, enough to make you wary of tarring? | ||
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CoughingHydra
177 Posts
On September 05 2013 00:46 Cascade wrote: Problem is that there are too many lunatics around in theoretical physics, people that are convinced that they have found some brilliant solution that everyone else have overlooked. I got myself (and still get) frequent mails from people trying to push their brilliant (but surprisingly not published in a serious peer-reviewed paper...) ideas onto me. Only because my PhD gave me an email and small homepage on the theoretical physics webpage... I can confirm this + Show Spoiler + my father gets such mails relatively often | ||
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