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On August 05 2010 20:12 sikyon wrote:
Can anyone define death? I wouldn't consider this dying. At every moment, my entire body from my skin to my brain is changing and growing. I could argue that the person I am right now is a different person from the person I was 2 seconds ago - he has died because he no longer and will never exist.
If you don't believe in an immortal soul, this machine should not trouble you at all because it is no different than what happens every day. If you do believe in an immortal soul, it still shouldn't trouble you because you should believe that your soul will follow your body. It would take a very specific kind of belief to disallow such a machine.
The word death is only used for lack of a better word I think. Since the you that steps out of the machine would think it was a success and that indeed it is the exact same 'you' that stepped into it, there would be no perceivable dying of any sort involved.
My opinion is the you that steps into the machine is lost the moment it is turned on. The you that is thinking these thoughts and seeing whatever your eyes happen to be looking at will never exist again, merely an exact copy that believes it's the original one. Therefore I would really only use it in a situation where I'm going to die anyways - impending apocalypse, etc. - in order to preserve my mind thoughts and ideas.
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I wouldn't do it because its not really a teleportation just merely the illusion of such a feat, using a suicide machine at one location (and atom reader) combined with (an atom writter) cloning machine at another location connected with the internet...
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If it's definitely going to kill me then I won't use it, I don't care if there's an exact copy of me going about the place if the real me is actually dead.
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Just because it's an exact clone doesn't mean we're the same lifeform. I'd still die an early death, but the clone would be a lucky guy.
So for me, no.
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regardless of what the copy thinks, you yourself are still dead. so no, i would'nt do this unless the original body was going to die anyway.
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Now imagine you have a completely round white room, no doors, no windows, only transportation machines placed against each other and looking the same. You step into it, activate it, and the destruction mechanism wont work. You open your eyes and you see you standing in the teleportation machine. Now which of you is the original you and which one is the copy.
Also it will be interesting to see if both you would do exactly the same things, because if the teleporter is working properly the new you and the old you should have exactly the same memory and you should think on the exact same things.
And another question comes to my mind... if I would kill my self - I mean the other my self - would it be murder or suicide?
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Talked about this a lot in metaphysics. The real concern to me is if there is some level of psychological continuity or if there is a gap there that would constitute a different person in essence.
I probably wouldn't use it but dunno. Would have to know more.
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On August 05 2010 19:04 EpiK wrote:
what difference does it make that the copy thinks/acts exactly like you? You will die and not be aware of the copies.
And yeah, I thought of The Prestige as well lol, except he didn't really do it for the sake of teleporting.
Sure he does, he teleports to the other door. Duh.
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Is this like quantum suicide?
I haven't read much about this kind of stuff, but it seems fascinating.
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This idea of "dieing" this way is silly. You wouldn't know.
How about this: The universe is destoyed and recreated infinite consecutive times slightly changing the place of some atoms in order to create the illusion of such things as "time" and "movement". Every universe is a new one, but since basically everything is the same, nobody knows.
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On August 05 2010 19:11 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
...okay, are you asking whether i would let myself die just so a copy of me whose conciousness i don't share can go somewhere else real quick?
fuck no, i'll take the bus.
if my conciousness is transferred through and i just feel like i teleported, then fuck yeah! atoms is just atoms.
Absolutely. The soul, conciousness, whatever, if there's a way to transport it, then sure, i'd do it.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 05 2010 18:54 Uriel_SVK wrote:
First I would do it without destruction, and I would ask me if I am still me, or I am not me. If I am still me than i would kill me so there is only one me.
But if there would be two me... this leads me to an interesting question... if i would have sex with my other me, would it be gay sex or masturbation?
Wouldn't you run the risk of the other you having the same idea about killing you, and the world ending up with 0 Uriel_SVK's - which, after this post, I can't help but think would be a tragic outcome!
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On August 05 2010 20:17 Thratur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 20:11 KurtistheTurtle wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 05 2010 19:39 Thratur wrote:
I've thought about this and then I realized that what makes your consciousness is only your short term memory.
So I die every time I go to sleep, faint or get drugged before an operation.
I would do it no problem just like I go to sleep every night knowing my consciousness will vanish once again. your subconscious is a huge, huge statistical engine which takes all the data you receive, figures out whats important and makes decisions in your best interest for you. it's shaped by your experiences, training, reading, schooling, everything you do. what makes part of your consciousness is your short-term memory @op: no. I wouldn't do this. I kind of see it as the same as suicide You're right. Short-term memory wasn't the best word, but at least it was close to what I wanted to say. Same thing anyway. What I mean is that your consciousness comes from the actual state of your brain and the feeling of continuity from the past 5 minutes and nothing more. However I would not include experience, training, reading etc in consciousness. They affect your decisions and personality, etc, but I define consciousness as the feeling of existence someone may have. It is not affected by his experience as it has no relevant characteristics.
Ofc, I can't say you're wrong per se, since you only claim what you believe to be consciousness, but it seems to me you haven't thought this through.
Even though consciousness is always linked to your current state of mind, past experiences, valuesn and personality traits are carried with you to this very moment. They are represented as priorities, knowledge, feelings, etc. Even the future is represented in that current mental state as through motives, ambitions, and presumptions.
I don't really believe you see your "self" as something that is changes every 5 minutes or so. Normally this "self" is understood as the characteristics that are more or less stable through a myriad of different settings and times.
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On August 05 2010 18:56 nevz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 18:54 braammbolius wrote:On August 05 2010 18:36 UniversalSnip wrote:
a machine that kills you,
the question is emotional rather than practical) uh......what. If it kills you, you die. seems kinda like a practical question to me lol. It kills you... but you're still alive after it kills you. I really don't see why you wouldn't do this, teleportation sounds pretty handy.
Actually no, it kills you and you arent alive. A copy of you is alive but you are dead, you would not feel what the copy is doing.
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If the other copy of you comes out on the other side will all of your memories and is physically no different, how would we even find out that the consciousness is not transferred as well and that you die when you enter that machine? Since the copy is exactly the same as you and carries on where you left off with all memories, there would really be no way for people to know this or verify this...
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On August 05 2010 21:52 LegendaryZ wrote:
If the other copy of you comes out on the other side will all of your memories and is physically no different, how would we even find out that the consciousness is not transferred as well and that you die when you enter that machine? Since the copy is exactly the same as you and carries on where you left off with all memories, there would really be no way for people to know this or verify this...
That's the problem
You walk in and die. A clone is created, yelling "Holy shit, i just teleport!"
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This is strange, because I conceived this very dilemma by myself when I was quite young, and it has always interested me.
I would never use it, as I think I would cease to be, while another person just like me would continue to exist. To everyone else he would be me, but I would really be dead. What interests me about this philosophical quandry is that even though I do not believe that people have souls, my choice of not wanting to use this machine betrays that notion. It reveals to me the fact that I feel that there is some intangible part of me that would be lost, and that I am something more than just the molecules that make up my body.
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And what if you would be able to copy all your memories, personality and stuff into computer (advanced neural computer able to work as brain) what about hormones? they have huge impact on your personality. Is consciousness able to exist outside blological brain?
or "cut and paste" yourself into someone else's body (like angent smith in matrix)
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United States5162 Posts
It's really is an interesting philosophical concept. The person created would, for all intensive purposes, be me. They would think like me, act like me, be me in every way, but not be my consciousness. Every time a new clone was created it would end and create a consciousness that are distinctly different, yet the same. It something I'm not sure how to feel about.
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EPT
