EPTOn a tangent, it's fascinating to wonder whether this is what happens anyway! As each of our thought processes dies and a new one comes into existence, are we really the same person in the way you would assume? Or are we simply a new version with the equal conviction that we are the original, remembering everything the same, just continuing the stream of consciousnesses.
death teleportation - Page 27
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ImbaTosS
United Kingdom1717 Posts
On a tangent, it's fascinating to wonder whether this is what happens anyway! As each of our thought processes dies and a new one comes into existence, are we really the same person in the way you would assume? Or are we simply a new version with the equal conviction that we are the original, remembering everything the same, just continuing the stream of consciousnesses. | ||
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Tewks44
United States2032 Posts
1. Imagine if it killed you, but an error occurred and the replica was some random guy you've never met. We can all agree that you would be dead. Now imagine if it does replicate you but due to a small error the replication has some minor differences in his physical appearance, but still continues your memory chain. Are you still alive now? Now let's say it looks exactly like you but has the memories of someone else, are you still alive? An answer is, if your memory chain is continued then you're still alive, but let's say the replicant continues your memory chain, but you replace all the replicant's memories of before you were 18 with a complete fabrications. Are you still alive? Instead of trying to argue why you are still alive, it is much simpler and makes much more sense to just say you die once your body is destroyed, and even if the replicant is flawless, it cannot bring you back to life. 2. Imagine if the teleportation device failed. It made a replicant of you at your preferred destination, but failed to vaporize your body. A lab tech comes into the room and says "sorry, there's been a problem with the teleporter, please step into this incinerator so the problem can be resolved." In this instance it's clear you would die if you went into the incinerator, even if your replicant exists. So why would you feel better if the timing if your bodily death was simply moved to when the replicant was created. This teleporter is a clever trick, but that's all it is. A clever trick. It doesn't actually teleport anyone, it just kills them and in that same instant creates a copy elsewhere. I would certainly never use. | ||
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
But in reality something like this would be used to clone the best soldier indefinitely and take over everything, just by making the teleporter not kill the original.. | ||
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POiNTx
Belgium309 Posts
On April 16 2012 05:39 kwizach wrote: That would be no different than actually teleporting - the entire point of teleporting is occupying a different space than the one you're currently occupying. The teleportation process as described would have you die at one location and your clone awaking at another with the exact same atomic composition as you at the nanosecond before you died and the belief that he is you, that all the molecules were actually teleported rather than cloned. You raise a good point. I was trying to make the situation more natural for our brain to understand. The more I think about this the more my brain starts to hurt. When someone is destroyed and cloned, I don't see the clone as the same person. Because now, we have 2 bodies. One dead body and one cloned body. The fact that it is identical, doesn't mean it is him. This is straightforward logical thinking. But here is a different situation. What happens if I take the atoms of the original body, break them apart and rebuild them exactly like you were, only in a different location. Would THAT person be you. I don't know really, but if you think that is you, that would mean it matters what atoms we use. It's like saying, what happens when you cut a man up in 2 halves, stitch them back together with with futuristic surgery so it looks like nothing happened. No one would think it is a different man. I can't get my head around such a situation. [EDIT] I am sorry if this had been raised already, didn't read the entire thread. Just writing my thoughts about this because I love thinking about these kind of situations. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
I actually really disliked The Prestige, because it was pretty unique in that the premise made me really uncomfortable and I felt a bit sick for a few hours after watching. | ||
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blinken
Canada368 Posts
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PenguinWithNuke
250 Posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_Transfer_(novel) I don't think I could go through with this. I believe that when I'm dead, "I" (the essence that is me) will disappear. My copy would be me but it wouldn't be me. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
But from a purely logical reasoning, I would definitely use the machine. | ||
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Chooser
Australia25 Posts
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itkovian
United States1763 Posts
The clone copy would act exactly like me. Making it essentially me. But... the conscious that resides in my current body could not exist in another body, even if the conscious in that body behaved the same way as I did. Its pretty clear to me if you change the scenario just a little bit: so that when your clone is made in that other location, you live in both locations briefly before your original is killed. When you're both alive, its obvious that your clone is not you, and when you are killed moments later its not like the conscious from your original body travels to your clone body. You are dead, but your clone survives.... thinking he is you. And acting just like you... ugh, weird question. No. I would not go along with this. | ||
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Half
United States2554 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On April 16 2012 12:29 Half wrote: You know, this threads gone on forever and I never understood why the machine has to kill you. I mean, seriously. I mean we already have the tech to make infinite perfect copies of the human body and to transfer the data on his mind via ftl wires and we still have this odd notion that we have to rig this ingenous device to kill one of you. OP here. It doesn't have to. Duh. It just does for the sake of this discussion, which is about the meaning of identity and how poorly we understand it. If you let both copies out alive it would instantly be about what cool stuff you'd do with your doppelganger and whether you'd kill each other, which is pretty stupid since it doesn't touch any underlying issues. | ||
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Chooser
Australia25 Posts
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EonuS
Slovenia186 Posts
On April 16 2012 09:25 Chooser wrote: I think there is no yourself. I have to say that this thread is really mind boggling that reminds me of some discussion where you had two or more brains linked together like multiple renderfarms would be for a computer software - now the big question is whether the brains linked together would cause conflicts ... or create an entirely new entity that has the computation and capacibility of multiple brains in the same way as brain cells are interconnected to create a larger system; every memory and information would be directly accessible the same way as you can access it now since afterall, it would be a network. If you think about the larger picture, shouldn't there be 'millions of yourselves' in your brains already? There might be living proof already whether this is true or not with the conjoined twins (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/viewnews.php?id=195217). Personally I agree with the quoted person, I also don't believe there is one 'yourself' and I still think that it is a term made up by the society to explain the unconnected entities The worst part about the death teleportation is, even if we were able to pull it off, it would still be impossible to find any answers. Even if we ask them "are you still yourself?" they will obviously reply in a clean-sweep fashion. Maybe brain transfer would bring more answers (by that I mean somehow transferring the brains as whole to a different body) | ||
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32
United States163 Posts
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AcrosstheSky
United States237 Posts
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-eXalt
United States462 Posts
On April 16 2012 14:01 AcrosstheSky wrote: You don't get immortality or evade death, you straight up die and another person who is exactly like you is created. you are now dead and not part of the copy. no thanks, there's actualy no reason to use it. yeah but you would still have the exact same thought processes / memory so you would feel no difference at all. It is you. What makes us, us? Our brain which holds our conciousness. this "machine" would reconstruct/teleport your Brain (and all of it's neural signals, everything) to the destination. Thus it is still YOU because your conciousness was 100% unafffected. Gah. Just read/listen"A universe from nothing" by Lawrence Krauss and you will all realize how truely insignificant you all are. The amount of people in this thread that think they are special or have some sort of hidden soul blows my mind (unless you are religious.. in which case.. no comment.) | ||
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BlindKill
Australia1508 Posts
My question is: As the human is an exact replica of yourself, Would this new human have the same memories as the old? Would this new human behave exactly as you would under any circumstances? (car accidents, parties blablabla) Assuming its yes for both: What does that say about free will? Are we all just humans whose actions are predetermined by our conditions ( personality, thought process, predispositions)? Say if I have a tendency to say "Bazinga!" after I teleport, with every teleportation I would repeat the same phrase, would that imply that humanity has no freewill and we are merely living a predetermined behavioural pattern generated from our physical and psychological condition? | ||
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Minkus
United States29 Posts
On August 05 2010 18:36 UniversalSnip wrote: This is a common thing in science fiction where you are 'teleported' by a machine that kills you, then reconstructs an exact copy of your body and mind at another point. So basically it is cloning you, keeping the clone, and then killing the original. lol no thanks. its really no different than dying if you think about it. | ||
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