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On April 15 2012 13:53 songohan wrote:
creating another being that looks and acts like yourself is called memory cloning. teleportation is the act of transporting a given object to another location instantaneously. However, the object will probably be crushed under the pressure because if you teleport somewhere and there is only air between the initial location and the destination (best case scenario) you have to push the air in front of you all the way. if the mechanism of teleportation makes you push all that air in an instant you will die to the pressure. there are all those imaginary talks about holes that give access to another dimension. if those holes exist and assuming 1 that there is another hole at the end that would lead to another location of this dimension and also assuming 2 that the hole sucks you in entirely and does not chop you up as you enter the hole then it would still not work because the speed at which you'll be traveling should be at least a chunk of the speed of light and once you exit through the second hole you will either crash into a tree, the ground, a rock, the ocean and worst of all projected into the sky where you will burn bone dry thanks to the friction and your bones will float in Earth's orbit or space.
Just make the device also teleport the air away where you are teleporting, so you would teleport to a vacuum exactly the size of you with breathable air around you.
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Given that the clone would not be "me" in the sense that my current controlling mind would not go on living, I would not do it. Also due to the clone receiving an exact copy of my personality, it wouldn't be happy with it either.
Example: I die, clone is created. Family doesn't quite like the idea of a cloned me, some clones would reassure them with "Its still me!" but I wouldn't, ergo my clone wouldn't. When I die, I don't want my name to go on doing shit without me knowing, lol. I know its a recreation of me and would only do stuff I'd do, but it still isn't me.
"This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine." Fairly relevant quote. Copies of things you own exist, but only one of them is yours.
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You have the same experience every tme you wake up.
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No, because I would be dead. It doesn't matter if a clone of me is still around and the essence of me is still there for everyone else. But it's not me and I am dead therefore it's not worth doing this sort of teleportation.
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On April 15 2012 21:05 WarChimp wrote:
No, because I would be dead. It doesn't matter if a clone of me is still around and the essence of me is still there for everyone else. But it's not me and I am dead therefore it's not worth doing this sort of teleportation.
So you are saying that a part of you is defined outside the model. Something that you have is not made out of molecules and atoms, and cannot be replicated. There is a difference between a clone and this process, in that the consciousness itself is also transported. So it would be like going to sleep and waking up. Momentary lapse of consciousness and that's that.
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On April 15 2012 22:42 CubEdIn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 21:05 WarChimp wrote:
No, because I would be dead. It doesn't matter if a clone of me is still around and the essence of me is still there for everyone else. But it's not me and I am dead therefore it's not worth doing this sort of teleportation. So you are saying that a part of you is defined outside the model. Something that you have is not made out of molecules and atoms, and cannot be replicated. There is a difference between a clone and this process, in that the consciousness itself is also transported. So it would be like going to sleep and waking up. Momentary lapse of consciousness and that's that.
Most people (or more ^^), will not know how their consciousness "works" and how fragile it is. The continuity is only a feeling, that is recreated every day in our bodies. Thats why i dont like this kind of threads where people arugue believes against other peoples believes, or even worse, against science  .
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I don't really see the problem here. I'm basically still alive, and I'm still living my life. I'll have been thinking the exact same thing before I teleported, it would be a complete duplicate. Sure, the former me died, but I won't really care...I'll be dead, therefore not thinking about it.
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The idea is that you aren't actually teleported... a perfect clone of you is born, and you die. It makes sense because what if the teleporter fails and you aren't actually destroyed... your perfect clone is created at the target location, yet you're still at the source location. Now who's the real one?
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^^
Exactly. I just feel like a new copy of you that thinks its you is born, but your ability to live would be gone, and an exact replica would be born.
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The brain is still active during sleep. It is not active during death. The break in physical continuity of the body breaks continuity of my life, so no I wouldn't do it.
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Ofcourse not. This conciousness will die and the other one will just be an exact copy. In otherwords, would you like to commit suicide and leave a very convincing tombstone walking around? Nah, I'll pass.
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Just to add a little fun to the mix, from Swinburne: Suppose there is a mad scientist that is going to transfer your consciousness into two separate bodies. These two bodies will be exact replicas of you - they will have all of your experiences, memories, consciousness, etc. However, one body will experience extreme pain and suffering. The other will experience pleasure.
Should you be worried? If you think that in the death teleportation, the replica is really YOU, then you should be really, really worried. But if you don't, then you shouldn't be worried at all. Because neither of the new bodies will really be "you".
This response is specifically directed at people who argue that a physical "discontinuation" of the body means that it's no longer really "you". Well, then, if your psychological consciousness is transferred into a new body that will experience torture, are you not worried?
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This thread confuses me so much.
If I used the teleporter, the me typing this would be dead, right? If you're duplicated on the other end, sure, it's "me" but it's not the same conciousness that's typing this to you guys. That conciousness would be dead, I would think.
Can someone explain the difference between the machine in the op and another machine that disassembles you, transports all the atoms that made you up, and then re-assembling you using the exact atoms you were made up with in another location? In my mind the second machine would actually move the me that's typing this around, when compared to the first machine.
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On April 16 2012 03:59 Finality wrote:
This thread confuses me so much.
If I used the teleporter, the me typing this would be dead, right? If you're duplicated on the other end, sure, it's "me" but it's not the same conciousness that's typing this to you guys. That conciousness would be dead, I would think.
Can someone explain the difference between the machine in the op and another machine that disassembles you, transports all the atoms that made you up, and then re-assembling you using the exact atoms you were made up with in another location? In my mind the second machine would actually move the me that's typing this around, when compared to the first machine.
Both machines kill you. Even if the copy is made up of the exact same atoms in the exact same position, it's still just a copy. I mean, if you have the technology to break down a person into atoms and rebuild it perfectly, you would have the technology to do the same kind of copy but with other atoms, which would make a perfect copy since a hydrogen atom in my body is identical to any hydrogen atom in the air. IMO, this is the reason why I believe in the soul even though I'm an atheist. Because really, I just can't believe that my consciousness rests in my atoms... the atoms building up my body is just dead matter, you could build a completely identical copy with atoms from other sources... but that obviously wouldn't have my consciousness. It's also the reason I have a mild phobia of sleeping, I find lapse of consciousness very uncomfortable.
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On April 16 2012 04:05 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 03:59 Finality wrote:
This thread confuses me so much.
If I used the teleporter, the me typing this would be dead, right? If you're duplicated on the other end, sure, it's "me" but it's not the same conciousness that's typing this to you guys. That conciousness would be dead, I would think.
Can someone explain the difference between the machine in the op and another machine that disassembles you, transports all the atoms that made you up, and then re-assembling you using the exact atoms you were made up with in another location? In my mind the second machine would actually move the me that's typing this around, when compared to the first machine. Both machines kill you. Even if the copy is made up of the exact same atoms in the exact same position, it's still just a copy. I mean, if you have the technology to break down a person into atoms and rebuild it perfectly, you would have the technology to do the same kind of copy but with other atoms, which would make a perfect copy since a hydrogen atom in my body is identical to any hydrogen atom in the air. IMO, this is the reason why I believe in the soul even though I'm an atheist. Because really, I just can't believe that my consciousness rests in my atoms... the atoms building up my body is just dead matter, you could build a completely identical copy with atoms from other sources... but that obviously wouldn't have my consciousness. It's also the reason I have a mild phobia of sleeping, I find lapse of consciousness very uncomfortable.
Well, your consciousness isn't just in the atoms, its in their arrangements. A hard drive is not made of data, but that data is encoded in the magnetic disk. Consciousness is just data, albeit extremely complex data.
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On April 14 2012 16:36 Chooser wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 16:28 Brutaxilos wrote:
This form of teleportation is utterly retarded. YOU'RE DEAD PEOPLE. You know, if the machine is going to rebuild your body atom by atom in another location, is the whole, killing the original really that important. Might as well just make a clone to do what's needed to be done. Better yet, might as well just do what you want to do electronically and send it. It's not like the information carrying your body plan travels any faster than an email. If your doing this for a fast way to get to something pleasurable, like going on vacation, don't. Your dead. Someone else is enjoying your life. But why are you necessarily dead? You're still alive, in a sense. Objectively nobody would know the difference. Subjectively, well I'm not sure. But how can you be so sure that you are in effect dead if there is another you in existence?
Just because something is exactly the same as another, doesn't mean it is the same object. Take a look at mass production, although every iPhone in the world is not EXACTLY the same, they're close enough for this thought experiment. If I have an iPhone and you have an iPhone, both brand new and unopened, are they the same iPhone? No. Similarly, if a machine creates another being in the same exact construction as me, it is not me. We are still different objects.
Honestly, for those people who think that its religious to think that your conscience is connected with your body, try and think about this. If a machine created another you and didn't kill you, would you be controlling two bodies at one time? In my opinion, it's more religious to believe that the specific pattern of atoms constructed in the proper way would automatically grant the conscience control.
I use conscience as a way to describe it easier. I don't actually believe there is a conscience. Like Stephen Hawkings said, we are all computers. Our movements are based on stimuli triggering synapses in our brain which in turn grant us our actions. "Consciousness" is only a by-product.
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You should add a new twist in the OP, with the same teleportation system that you described (one's body get destroyed but a clone with his exact memories is created at the location he wanted to arrive at) except that people do not know that their original body has been destroyed and that they are now a clone, thinking instead that they have actually been teleported. Would the people that were reluctant with the original system be willing to embrace the new one in which absolutely nobody (including them) knew the original bodies were destroyed and they were now clones after being "teleported"?
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No because my conciousness will not be the same.
Think about it like an exact clone of you (so exact the atomic structure is the same) standing right next to you. You both have the same brain and the same memory, but from the moment your clone is awake, it will have different thoughts than you because he is in another space than you and perceives the world differently. Therefore you are not him and he is not you. The teleportationproces will make it so you die, but someone else will live. But the clone will think it worked.
I wrote a small blog here on TL about this subject. But afterwards I realized that the things I said in the blog don't make any sense. But then again, what is conciousness. It's kind of a paradox. That makes me think that there is no thing like conciousness. It's just your brain being aware of itself. The person YOU don't really exists. It's the brain that wakes up everyday and thinks it is you, and just goes trough that logical process that you must be you and it existed for the age you are.
[EDIT]
It was mentioned before in this thread, but that was 2 years ago.
Swampman is something that touches this problem.
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On April 16 2012 05:27 POiNTx wrote:No because my conciousness will not be the same. Think about it like an exact clone of you (so exact the atomic structure is the same) standing right next to you. You both have the same brain and the same memory, but from the moment your clone is awake, it will have different thoughts than you because he is in another space than you and perceives the world differently. Therefore you are not him and he is not you. The teleportationproces will make it so you die, but someone else will live. But the clone will think it worked. I wrote a small blog here on TL about this subject. But afterwards I realized that the things I said in the blog don't make any sense. But then again, what is conciousness. It's kind of a paradox. That makes me think that there is no thing like conciousness. It's just your brain being aware of itself. The person YOU don't really exists. It's the brain that wakes up everyday and thinks it is you, and just goes trough that logical process that you must be you and it existed for the age you are. [EDIT] It was mentioned before in this thread, but that was 2 years ago. Swampman is something that touches this problem.
That would be no different than actually teleporting - the entire point of teleporting is occupying a different space than the one you're currently occupying. The teleportation process as described would have you die at one location and your clone awaking at another with the exact same atomic composition as you at the nanosecond before you died and the belief that he is you, that all the molecules were actually teleported rather than cloned.
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Imagine it like this, instead of the machine killing you, it simply creates a perfect copy of you down to every minute detail except in another space. Do you simultaneously share two consciousnesses? Do you feel as though you are in both places at the same time? Are you somehow connected by some extreme example of quantum entanglement? I would say this ambiguity is enough reason for me to avoid "death" teleportation, as it seems unlikely you dieing during teleportation actually matters in the process (ie: I would not be the clone if I lived, so I would not be the clone if I died).
It's an interesting question though, since regardless of ones sense of self being destroyed, everything that is relevant to yourself would still be passed on to the copy. It does make me wonder if the copy wouldn't somehow share your consciousness.
edit: POiNTx made the same point above
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EPT
