Wikileaks - Page 62

You cannot arbitrarily kill someone in captivity. Torture requires captivity. Thus, neither is acceptable in that circumstance, even in a time of war.

On April 26 2011 07:46 chickenhawk wrote:


I know that Geneva convection does not allowed both of them. What I meant is that I do undersant that a country needs information in a war, and that torture is away of getting that information.

History is written by the winner and the living, do I find torture unfair? Yes, but so is live. If a piece of information can save a life of a friend, i will not mind to close my eyes for abit. Carpet bombing is more letal, but everyone acept it has an act of war. Why not torture?

On April 26 2011 06:30 Envy01 wrote:


Bin Laden admitted to attacking the United States.

And I am not arguing for or against torture. We know it has happened, there is nothing that can be done about what happened in the past.




What will change about how our government operates based on the release of these documents? And I respectfully disagree with the necessary sacrifice, I couldn't imagine telling someone's wife and child that their dad was killed due to a necessary sacrifice of releasing information regarding how America fights wars.

On April 26 2011 06:22 Envy01 wrote:
This is what I am confused about, why, in a war supported by the American people (the war in Afghanistan), the release of this information is even required. I don't understand why this information needs to be made public. Does it cause any direct harm to soldiers? Quite possibly. By describing troop movements, engagement tactics and other information not easily found, it could risk our soldiers lives. I personally know quite a few soldiers fighting in Afghanistan at the moment, and I can't comprehend how someone could risk these soldiers lives when they don't have the balls to go overseas and fight as well.

People ask, why are we in these wars still? Or why are we in these wars at all?

Well, the Afghanistan war is obvious: 9/11. If anyone believes we should not be fighting the Taliban then please remember the thousands of innocent people who were slaughtered in the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and in Pennsylvania. Remember those families who were shattered with the news that a loved one was killed at work, or when flying home to see them.

For the people that immediately assume we are in Iraq for oil, we received (in the largest amount received from Iraq in the past 5 years) a little more than 4% of our oil from Iraq. You cannot argue that 4% of our imported oil is the reason we went in to Iraq. We went in to a) remove a terrible dictator from power, b) prevent massive numbers of Taliban fighters fleeing into Iraq to set up camps to train more people to attack the United States.

Why do the documents surrounding these wars, and THE ALLIES of the United States need to be revealed? What purpose does it serve?

Source for oil information: http://www.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_a.htm

Remember those families who were shattered with the news that a loved one was killed at work, or when flying home to see them.

On April 26 2011 07:59 mike1290 wrote:
These are but a few of the documents that wikileaks has released so far. The scope of this information is vast and not strictly limited to fighting wars. I realize that this seems so difficult and unfair for an individual in this situation, and that is why many people have so much trouble with these types of decisions. The reality is that people are going to be hurt no matter what happens and to think that these problems can be fixed without any sacrifice is naive at best.

On April 26 2011 06:22 Envy01 wrote:
People ask, why are we in these wars still? Or why are we in these wars at all?

Well, the Afghanistan war is obvious: 9/11. If anyone believes we should not be fighting the Taliban then please remember the thousands of innocent people who were slaughtered in the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and in Pennsylvania. Remember those families who were shattered with the news that a loved one was killed at work, or when flying home to see them...

Why do the documents surrounding these wars, and THE ALLIES of the United States need to be revealed? What purpose does it serve?

On April 26 2011 07:27 Semtext wrote:
And Bin Laden has died since, or really cant be arsed to get in front of any camera anymore. god, don't anybody realize there is no reason for the USA to be going to war against any 3rd world country?

and then again, oil.

makes me want to live somewhere else. sad thing there are no more inhabitable planets at our disposal, but i understand that people would be fucking the others up as well pretty quickly, so therefore it is maybe best we stay on this one space-floating rock right here.

On April 26 2011 08:30 catamorphist wrote:




Is the best way to remember those thousands of innocent people to drown them out with a few million more?

On April 26 2011 08:31 Elegy wrote:


A few million?

Don't be foolish.

On April 26 2011 08:54 catamorphist wrote:


So, speaking of foolishness, your suggestion is apparently that the appropriate response for patriotic Americans upon experiencing 9/11 is to pursue Al-Qaeda by occupying Afghanistan and Iraq, causing this chart.

Bearing that in mind, what do you think a patriotic Iraqi or Afghani's appropriate response towards America is after experiencing the casualties depicted on this chart? Feel free to take your best guess. Perhaps he should write an angry forum post, or vote in an election?

On April 26 2011 09:04 Elegy wrote:


Huh?

All I said, or clearly implied, was that nowhere near a "few million" have died, unless you are using ridiculous sensationalist figures with little or no basis in fact.

On April 26 2011 08:30 catamorphist wrote:




Is the best way to remember those thousands of innocent people to drown them out with a few million more?

We inflict a 9/11 on Afghanistan every year.

On April 26 2011 06:30 mike1290 wrote:


I think that there are some things that are more important than someone's life, and I personally think this is one of those cases. Exposing these documents gives tremendous insight into how our government is actually operating and even though the information has the potential to harm people, I think it is a necessary sacrifice.

On April 26 2011 10:26 Millitron wrote:


The vast majority of those civilian casualties were not caused by the US. I'm not for the war either, but that chart leads the reader to believe that the US killed those civilians, which is just untrue. Yes, we killed some, but nowhere near the 94% the chart says. I would bet the US is to blame for less than 2%. The other 92% were killed by the rampant sectarian violence following the fall of Saddam Hussein.

edit: Screwed up my quoting.

On April 26 2011 06:30 Envy01 wrote:
And I am not arguing for or against torture. We know it has happened, there is nothing that can be done about what happened in the past.

On April 26 2011 10:45 acker wrote:


Would you support paying out restitution to those we've tortured, or releasing detainees we tortured into confession?

I'm not exactly sure of this "if it's the Taliban's family, it's ok" argument is, either. Sounds like an absurd double standard. Unless, of course, you're fine with the Taliban bombing the families of US soldiers over here in the USA. Which I'm pretty sure you'd classify as terrorism.