Found this interesting read. It's a man's story about his experience in prison. I honestly thought this was absolutely amazing because I had no idea what prison was actually like. It sounds horrible and I for one would never ever want to be there.
I really liked the guy's style of writing, which makes this read even more enjoyable. Anyways I enjoyed this very much. Hope you guys too!
Quoting the Threadstarter
This guy gets 2 years for Armed Robbery , he makes a post before going into jail (nothing special) then a make a long thread after getting out. It's pinned on an imageboard I frequent, this is his story;
also note that sister= girlfriend due to word filters on the imageboard and that he does use offensive language etc, so i guess read with a thick skin ------------
So I just got out of prison ...and fuck it if I've forgotten how to work a mouse and hit the submit button too soon.
Shit [sic] has changed. So many boards now. I don't know what the fuck is going on. Where do I start? Two years inside and it's like the whole world has changed. Just wanted a board where things stayed the same.
I don't even recognise half the dickgirls on /di/ anymore. Has the whole world grown tits while I was gone? And who the fuck if Justin Bieber?
Is. Is Justin Bieber. Lost my ability to spell. I get out and first thing I see is that little homie has a tattoo but I don't even know who the little homie is. My cable got cancelled while I was away so I can't even find out. Thank fuck for wireless internet, I swear to God it's faster now too. Seriously, it's like I've traveled through time. Fucking iPads look like shit out the future. Feel like I've missed a decade of shitty memes.
Did you make a thread about this before you went in? I vaguely remember it. Update about why you went in, how it was, etc?
Sure did. Would have been middle of 2008 what I was still pretty gung ho about it, before I stupidly tried to skip bail and ended up spending a month inside before trial.
Was inside from July '08 until Tuesday this week. Feel like I've lost more than two years, like I've lost a decade or so.
This was my first time inside.
Was done for armed robbery and got 18 months on a plea bargain. Got fucked on three parole hearings and ended up doing another four months. You hear of these guys who get out early because they were 'model prisoners' I don't know how they do it.
So while I was inside I made a list of the worst things about prison to share with the boards I used to frequent. Seemed like any discussion of prison would be all like 'lolrape' and no actual info for anons that might find themselves in my shitty situation. So here it is, the top 10 worst things about prison that you never knew about:
10. The Smell
Prison smells like shit. Smells worse than shit. You know the smell you imagine jenkem to smell like? Imagine that, only it's being rubbed on the arm pits of a sweaty mexican and then his armpit pubes are being set fire too. It's that bad. No one flushes the fucking john. Ever. You know how clean prison looks in all the pictures? It is, because we spend all fucking day cleaning it. And then convicts just basically shit themselves for a laugh. I switched buses on the way back and sat next to this guy wearing cologne. I'm not gay (well, as not gay as you can be after being inside) but I got a boner as soon as I smelt it. Fucking amazing.
9.
White people.
After the first year, I was ashamed to be white. In the world, white people are capable of all kinds of great things, and all kinds of bad things. But inside we're just universally cunts. Aryan Brotherhood weren't a big presence in my block, but they were bad enough to make you kind of wish your mother had been raped by a nigger. And that's before you meet your boss's. Correctional Services officers come in all flavours, but white screws were the worst. Black screws, you could tell were just poor niggers trying to get by in a shitty job. Only white guys ever seemed to enjoy their shit. Rape, dispite the rumours, is not a big deal inside. It doesn't happen that often. But everytime it happened on my block it was a white guy. And every time anyone got murdered, it was a white guy. There were 33 murders while I was inside, 12 of them in my block. All because white cunts couldn't keep their dicks in their pants, or else 'cut someone's eyes' which was slang for stealing someone's shit. Being black in prison would have been awesome.
8. Getting fat.
There is no gym equipment in prison. That whole, 'bunch of guys sitting around pumping iron' image you have? Forget it. Gym equipment is a weapon, and weapons are forbidden. Our block had one treadmill that would occassionaly work. You couple that with high fat food, all day, everyday, you start to go flabby really quickly. One of the things that occupies a lot convict's days is finding someway to try and do some physical activity. After about six months I could feel my muscle mass going, so me and my cellmate would deadlift each other for a few hours. Gayest thing you've ever seen, but it filled in the time.
7. Solitary
I was fucking terrified of solitary confinement when I first went inside, which contributed to me behaving myself. Until I realised that solitary isn't something you can hold off by just not being a dick. It's a reality of life and you will, at somepoint, be put in solitary for no fucking reason at all. Usually, because there is a remand inmate that needs to be cycled into gen pop before trial and they need to free up your cell - so you go into solitary because there aren't any other beds. I did two months of that all up. No books, no blankets, no light, 23 hour lockdown. Most they can do is 1 week at a stretch - worst part was knowing you were going to go back after a week if the block was too over crowded. You spent your whole time in gen pop just anxious as fuck because you could get dragged off the chain at any moment and sent back.
6. The Drugs
After a while, drugs become a viable option inside. There is a lot on offer. If you can get it out in the world, you can get it inside - for a better price strangely enough, considering the difficulty of getting it in. That is if it is what your man says it is. I decided to get onto horse after a few months, mostly as something to do. I'd tried heroin outside, but hadn't liked it since getting on the nod seemed like a waste of time. But inside, it's great - a shot in solitary can make a week pass in no time at all. Problem is the shit it will be cut with. Flour, baking soda, jell-o crystals - all shit that should not be in a vein. After a while, you just end up doing things that outside, you never would have dreamed of. I was paranoid about getting the AIDS, so I kept this one needle the whole time I was inside. Went rusty and I ended up spending a month in sick bay with tetenus. When I couldn't score for junk, I scored for codeine tablets. Grew my thumb nail long and wrecked it on the concrete so it was sharp enough to cut open my thigh, and would stick the crushed up tablet inside.
Yeah, shit got that bad.
5. The Economy
I joked to my cell mate on the first day that at least the GFC couldn't fuck us inside. He'd been done for assaulting a cop when his house got taken by the bank. But within months 'GFC Nigger' became the standard reply to any query as to how black market prices were suddenly going through the roof. The price of a deck of smokes tripled. There was an actual economic reason about this. I went away in Michigan, where a lot of people lost their houses, mostly poor people already. When they had to move away from the prison, it meant they couldn't bring their loved ones as much contraband group, which meant the price of what there was sky rocketed. And the worse things got, the more the people who worked in the store would wonk and take home with them, which meant stocks ran low which fucked us even further.
Bet you didn't read about that one in the Wall Street Journal.
4. Losing everyone you ever loved.
No one ever talks about this because prison makes you a hard ass. Or at least you teach yourself to think it does. The first ones to go are your friends. They tell you they'll write and send you stuff - take every friend you've ever had, now pick one. There will be one that actually does it. But they'll stop after a few months. Then your sister - they might say they'll wait, but you know they won't. I called mine on my second week and told her it was over. Apart from the total shock of going away, I couldn't stand spending every night wondering if she was getting cranked by some other dude. Was one less thing to worry about. My kid, who was about to turn 1 when I went away, will never have any idea who the fuck I am. Her mom took her away the second I went inside. Never called. Don't even know where to begin looking. My Mom and Dad were the worst. They promised me when I went inside that they'd stick by me if I stuck by them, that all they wanted was the occassional phone call to let them know I was okay, and they'd make sure they visited regularly. I was so fucked up half the time I forgot when visiting day even was. I realised, and tried to tell the boss that I didn't want to see them, that I was too messed up. So the cunts dragged me by the hair through the block to the visiting room and propped me up on a chair in front of them and laughed. They never came back, and they haven't seen me since I got out.
3. Lonliness
An old timer told me that when he first went inside, in the 80s, prison was all about cliques. There were different gangs, people stuck together because of ethnicity, even religion. Back then there were Irish Catholic cliques, Nation of Islam cliques - even white collar guys started cliques to avoid getting stepped on.
One thing the boss' do very well is create an atmosphere of constant paranoia. If you get shaken down and you get contrapedophile group found on you, they'll stick you in solitary and finger your best friend for setting you up. If you come inside with a pre-existing gang affiliation, like a lot of black guys do, they start by stepping on your friends straight away and blaming you for it until you're a pariah. Forget about the yard being full of big groups of guys chilling together. No one hangs with anymore than three people for a stretch. If you're seen with a big group, you'll be targeted by the screws. Mostly, people do their time alone. Pacing the yard, or even just ignoring their cell mates completely.
That gets to you more than anything. The constant suspicion, and knowing you're alone.
2. Death
I saw 12 deaths inside. Three of them were at the hands of screws. One of those was a gunshot to the head while a guy was trying to escape. The other two were beatings, and I didn't know they'd died until later. It's not right to call a prison shanking a 'stabbing' because that's not how you die. Inside, we called it 'digging a hole' or 'digging a well' like 'he got a well dug in him' or 'pulled out a hole'. The reason for this is the make shift weapons used inside are not easy to kill with. You basically make a hole as fast as you can, by stabbing as fast as you can, and then you try and get a grip inside it and just start pulling. I saw this right up close one time. I had the distinct misfortune of having my cell behind a pillar, like a bulkhead kind of thing in the middle of the block. So if you wanted to shank someone, it was a great place to hide. On the flip side, it meant the boss' gave it a lot of extra attention, which was bad for rubbing one out or taking a hit. Two guys were loitering around the pillar one day, waiting for this fresh kid to wander past. Prison gossip said he's been worked over on his first night by someone who wanted him for a wife, but the kid fought back and nearly bit some fucker's nuts off. So his friends wait with a t-shirt, and a filed down toothbrush. They've cracked down on plastic toothbrushes, but there used to be enough of them that a lot of guys have them stashed away. You can file down the ends on the concrete to a point. One guy wraped a t-shirt around the kid's neck and lifted him off the ground from behind, and the other starts stabbing his gut. After a few stabs, he starts trying to get his fingers inside and he just pulls all this meat out. I thought he was going to pull out his intestines like you'd see in a horror movie, but instead, he just pulls out fist after fist of this yellow jelly shit, and then big hunks of meat like raw mince. Screw's arrived and tasered everyone. Even the kid. He was on his side, right in front of my cell, and every jolt from the taser made the big hole in his stomach smoke.
You don't see something like that and not have it fuck you up worse than you already were for being incarcerated.
1. Getting Out
On my last day I started writing this list in my head, and thought it would be funny to post it on the Chans. But really, now I've written it, it's not funny. For lols, I was originally going to talk about prison rape. But really? It's a small part of doing time. On any given block, you might only have a dozen or so convicts who are likely to rape someone. And they go after the same kind of convicts every time too. Because if you try to rape the wrong guy... you might end up with your guts pulled out.
That's not to say consensual gay sex doesn't happen. I had it, and I enjoyed it. I'm not going to go and fuck a man on the outside, but a combination of drugs, lonliness and boredom do strange things.
So instead of rape, the thing that tops my list was getting out. After 18 months, I felt like I had the whole prison kick down. I felt like I belonged. New guys looked up to me, like someone who'd seen shit and made it through. As I scaled back on my pretty huge habit, I started to get this kind of zen calm about incarceration, and I liked to think I helped a few guys through their first weeks.
The last months before I left was the happiest of my entire life. I started making lists, like this one. Lists of what I was going to do. Lists of things I was going to eat. Lists of places I was going to go. I almost felt like I'd had a near death experience, and now I had to live a better life. Then I left.
Two years is a long time. The world literally changes without you. I got off the bus and went to my favourite bar. It was empty. I went to a cafe my friends used to touch dicks at. None of them were there. I went to my house, pulled the boards off and went inside. Everything was just as I'd left it with two years worth of dust. Most depressing thing you've ever seen. I lay down on my bed and paranoia started setting in. I realised I was pretty much squating and was paranoid about being picked up by the cops and breaching my parole, so I went to my parents house. They let me in, but told me I couldn't stay until they were sure I was off the drugs. I checked into a motel and sat on the edge of the bed, watching MTV and ordering Pizza. I must have ordered like five pizzas from five different places, stayed up till dawn. Thing about prison, is that sleep becomes like a chore you do each day. You're never really tired, so you never really want to sleep, it just breaks up the time. I felt like I didn't want to sleep ever again. Next morning I decided to go for a drive, and thought I'd rent a car - but my driver's licence had expired. I went to get a new one, but because I'd been inside they needed me to get a letter from my parole officer. So I just wandered around for a day. Felt like everyone was staring at me.
You just feel completely lost.
How would you pay for drugs? You have money in prison?
You get a tiny allowance, but you spend most of it on food. The best and most effective way to score is to have someone on the outside pay your man's person on the outside. My preferred method was to get a bank account and deposit on using phone banking. At my worst, I was using a monthly phone call to transfer cash to my dealer's mom instead of calling my own mom. He was actually a cool guy, apart from being an AIDs infected drug dealer inside for a double rape.
If you don't have a set up like that, you can trade for candy. Weird, but that's how shit works inside. A big bag of Reece's Pieces would get you an eight ball. No shit.
I've known a few people who have been to prison, and the things I've heard frighten me to death about ever going. Did you ever have to fight while you were in? Or at least get your ass kicked?
Fighting wasn't as bad as it is on the outside to be honest. Drugs are just so pervasive inside that fights are over pretty quickly. You know, in my few sober moments, I wondered if maybe the screws weren't partly responsible for getting so much dope inside since it made us all pretty much zombies.
I got in a few, more than a few really. But I never really felt like I won a fight. Fridays, if you could keep track of days, were the absolute worst. It was like our brains were programmed to feel pumped up on a Friday for the weekend, but then you'd realise inside that all you had to look forward too was another two days of the same shit. You'd start a fight with anyone, over anything on a friday.
Only time I ever started a fight was over Dr Pepper. I don't know why, but Dr Pepper was the only thing that ever made me feel better about my fucked up situation. Apart from Heroin. You could get Dr Pepper in these really small plastic bottles, like on planes, but they were the least cost effective snack in the store. So i'd pretty much save up for one every now and then, smuggle it back to my cell on a Friday, chill the fuck out with my tape deck and drink it really slow. One time a guy stood over me for my Dr. Pepper and I completely snapped and tried to ram the thing up his nostril. Scored a week in solitary, and just as extra kick in the guts - store staff were forbidden from selling me Dr Pepper.
Apart from that, I was mostly getting the shit beat out of me by Aryans for consorting with niggers. Broke two ribs, my collar bone, my nose (twice), lost two teeth (they were weak as shit from a diet of candy and smack anyway) but blissfully, was raped only once - by a homiegot with the tiniest cock you've ever seen. I'm a fat fuck, and I swear that thing barely reached my asshole through my enourmous ass cheeks. It was all I could do to not laugh.
I too am very glad you're out, OP. Thank you for an amazing thread although not to say your experiences have been in any way amazing. You have a great writing style, by the way. Very compelling and interesting.
Is it true that there's a hierarchy in prison systems with armed robbers generally being considered top of the pecking order and rapists and paedophiles at the bottom? I'm assuming not given what you've said so far but this is something I've heard a couple of times before. Also, what are you planning on doing now you're out? What made you commit armed robbery in the first place? Did you make any friends in prison that you'd stay in touch with outside? I know you said about the suspicion thing (which sounds completely fucked up and a ridiculous thing for the authorities to want to do by the way) but you also mentioned having a laugh with your cell mate so I thought maybe you might have.
As for friends - not really. I only ever had two. Both cell mates. The first guy was this big truck driver who got busted with meth and was doing longer than me, probably because he was black. That's no joke. The fact I was white and well spoken probably went a long way toward me getting off light. I got some ink and had a pretty stupid haircut when I went in, which really sucked because any point of difference is enough to get you picked on inside. This guy, first thing he says to me is 'what did you rob? American Apparel?' and he would rag on me endlessly. He had a daughter who was the cute as fuck little scene girl - seriously, you ever see a half-black scene girl? They're beautiful. We'd sit around all day and I'd tell him all the Odin awful things I was going to do to his daughter if I ever saw her at a Kaiser Chiefs concert and he'd tell me how many skinner sister homiegots she'd brought home only for him to beat up on. First thing he did was help me shave my head. We'd figure out new and interesting ways of working out together, like dead lifting each other, dead lifting our bunks - we'd tie a pair of pants around the top of our bunks and one of us would hold it tight while the other would do curls on it. He got transferred, and that was when I started using. I'd been thinking about it, but apart from using meth while driving, he was a pretty straight edge guy and I didn't want to disrespect him by getting high with him there.
My second cell mate was this kid done for weed. He was scared as fuck. He wet the bed every night he came in for weeks. Worst thing I ever did to another human was share my junk with him. At the time, I just felt like it would help him adjust - but some people really can't handle it, or else seem to become addicted way to fast. I know my own limits, and know it takes a steady habit for months to get seriously hooked. Not this kid. He was getting the shakes after a few days without it.
One day he comes back for lock down, takes a hit and after a few minutes says - this isn't H, try it. And it turned out to be powdered MDMA, or Ecstacy. We both did it and ended up giving each other blow jobs. Afterward, things were pretty awkward until I said, you know fuck it, we're in prison, let's make a deal that if we can score for ecstacy again we'll get each other off.
We were good friends after that. He got out before me, and I definetly don' think I'll look him up.
Jesus God of Thunder on a shitty dick, American prisons sound downright inhumane. Really, I don't know what to say here.
How're you acclimatizing back to normal society? What about your old friends, your family, anything? All gone? What are you going to do next anyway?
Well I'm on parole for the next year - but it seems downright impossible to find a job. I've got some money saved up and my plan is to get out of the States, head to Europe and find bar work. I haven't seen a soul I knew before since I got back, and I'm almost scared of seeing them now. I can't help but feel like I need to get away, but the Corrections system makes that pretty hard.
I'm thinking about maybe skipping parole and heading south, crossing the border in the Mexico and then catching a plane to London. But I don't know, I heard from one guy (inside, which is about as reliable as /b/) that US Customs are actually at Mexican International checking US passports for Visas. If that's true I'll have to wait.
Well tonight, I'm going to start on Wikipedia and read the entries for every single day I've missed since I was inside. Apparently Lady GaGa is huge now, who would have thunk it? I heard new guys talk about her inside but we don't exactly get the news. There is two years worth of music to get into, which is probably the thing I'm looking forward to the most. Then I'm going to hit Encyclopedia Dramatica and find out about all the memes I missed out on.
Thanks for reading my story.
>Does it start and end at making it so you never want to go back
I'm curious to hear about OP's thoughts on this, especially after this;
>That, of all things, is probably what has me thinking I won't commit another stupid crime again. You see the pointlessness of life in prison. The worst part is how used to it everyone else in there is. Especially black people. They've seen their fathers, their grandfathers, their brothers and uncles go away. It's almost a part of life for them. Wasting a decade inside just doesn't seem to matter to them anymore.
I'd imagine it only works in scaring the shit out of some people.
One of the few things about prison I ever saw in a movie was that line - can't remember which film it was from - about there being 'inmates' and 'convicts'. About how an 'inmate' is a prisoner, they're scared, and they want to get out and never go back. A 'convict' knows, deep down, they're a criminal, that through their actions they've placed themselves outside the 'man's' law, and that status defines them.
Prison works at scaring the inmate. But convicts... Don't get me wrong, I never want to go back. But as I've reflected on it, in my last few weeks and the last 24 hours of freedom - I've almost found a special pride in having made it through. I was at a bus stop this morning and I struck up a conversation with someone, about how the bus was late, what she was listening to on her iPod, just random shit. And as we got on the bus I realised - that was me, that was me from before going inside talking, I'm still that person. I was really proud for having wrapped that part of me up so tightly during my time that I kept it safe.
It doesn't make me ever want to go back. But it does kind of make me feel like I could survive it again. I think that is probably true for a lot of people.
But for a lot of convicts, I think what brings them back is the adrenelin rush more than anything. Committing a serious crime is a real rush, but life inside keeps you riding this constant edge - some people would get off on the paranoia, the violence, the constant tension. You'd probably find a lot of paralels between the kinds of guys who keep signing up for tours through war zones and the kinds of guys who keeping winding up back inside.
So OP, would you agree with that whole "Prison = college for criminals" thing? Sounds like they've created an environment that reduces that sort of thing, but some older generations I've talked to said they learned all kinds of pointers when they did time.
What about any attempts at actual rehabilitation? Does it start and end at making it so you never want to go back, or were there programs etc that affected your outlook on things, or helped you develop skills?
I'm just curious as to what an ex-con's opinion on the whole "what the prison system is doing in practice" issue is, whether or not they're just removing criminals from society for a while and hopefully scaring some of them into not going back, or attempting to fix the root causes.
Every prison and county jail is different. From the way I figure it, in Michigan we have these low security camps for nonviolent offenders where they genuinely try to get you back on the straight and narrow with life skills, employment training, drug rehab. Then you have the ultra high sec - supermax or level 5, where they just need to do 'something' because the inmates are usually so bug fuck psycho they either are never getting out and need their psyches managed as they adapt to that reality - or else they might be getting out soon and they need to be certain they no longer pose a threat to society.
I was in a level 5 facility, (they call in V inside because the State uses roman numerals and you don't find a lot of convicts know what roman numerals are. I Romans for that matter. ) - but it was part of a privately run string of prisons, each with anywhere between a few hundred and a few thousands convicts. To manage the population as it swells and declines seasonaly (convict rates drop through winter. no shit. no one wants to commit a crime when it's cold) people get cycled in and out, so there is really no time for re-offending programs, or programs to prevent drug abuse or any of that.
In terms of it being 'college for criminals'... It's not really the case. Even in high security, with a lot of violent offenders, the number one crime keeping people inside is drugs. Most guys learned more about drug crime from TV than they did inside. Are you really going to take advice about crime from someone who was caught? I heard so many bullshit stories your ears will bleed. About how eucalyptus oil prevents drug dogs from finding your gear. About how Glocks are really made of plastic and can't be picked up by metal detectors. Yes. Die Hard 2 came out 20 years ago and people inside still buy that story.
The storyies about getting caught I'd say were 50/50 in terms of legitimacy. No one would tell you they were ever busted dead to rights. I heard so many tall tales about how the cash straped Michigan State Cops could actually track you down with in a few feet using satelites and cell phones... A lot of interesting stories though, from dealers, about how to pick undercover cops doing 'hand to hands'. I met one guy who had been done over so many times by UCs that he would actually give up a free shot to new customers, on the condition he got to watch them take it. Last time he went away, the cop took the shot, hit it, then arrested him and he got busted for posession, distribution AND assaulting a police officer, because 'forcing someone to smoke a pipe' is really assault and all.
Once word got out that I was a stick up kid, I got a lot of guys hitting me up for information - this is actually really dangerous inside because you never know who is just an idiot that thinks prison is a crime textbook and who might be a snitch. I was initially charged with 13 offences and was convicted on 2, so I was constantly paranoid about being re-tried on new evidence.
>We should set up a charity on the site to help this friend in need!
I'm cool for cash.
>I feel like saying "great thread OP" is now a mandatory preface to posting, so: great thread OP.
>Anyways, you seem like a well spoken individual. In fact, this post [sic] got me thinking that you could become >the face and leader of the felon's rights movement. You could be, like, the next MLK Jr., man.
>Also, did you get hunted down by a bounty hunter when you skipped bail?
No bounty hunter. I was picked up by highway patrol on a random stop. In response to the other queries about the robbery - I posted something about it last night but quickly took it down. I won't go into the actual crime. Got off so easy by changing my plea and taking the two charges the DA's office could prove right there, that I'm paranoid they'll charge me again if they think they could prove more. It's not an especially cool story.
>Welcome back, OP. I hope you enjoy your freedom now that you're outside. If it were me, I would buy a pack >of smokes and stroll around a park just enjoying the fact that I could. Then again, I didn't go through all the shit >you did, so that could be naive of me. I hope you are able to get all of your shit back together. Don't try to >blow off your parole like you blew off your bail, unless you don't mind ending up in prison again. If it really is >that hard trying to get everything back on track in your life, maybe consider following that other guy's advice >and asking to move somewhere that makes it easier for convicted felons to get work/start a new life.
>Also, I hope 99chan hasn't changed too much since you were gone and that you can still touch dicks here. I >personally don't remember there being as much bitching and whining two years ago, but then again people >aren't wired to remember that kind of stupid shit.
Thanks for the advice. It really is true about how the little things mean a lot more to you. First thing I did was buy a real pack of smokes - because inside they're called 'free worlds', as opposed to chop tobacco. That's how you know you're free. Pack of Parliaments never tasted so good. --end multiquote--
OP, if i may ask : How similar is the real deal to tv prison dramas ? Of course i know tv tends to be far from reality and that prisons themselves vary quite a bit, but i am curious about what is similar and what is flat out wrong. I always imagined Oz was fairly accurate with the mindgames sort of stuff.
I'd seen Oz, and the only similarity to my lock up was the size. You imagine these big sprawling complexes with all the gothic architecture and shit, but Oz is pretty much right about your average high sec prison. Think about 40-50 guys with a common area around two tiers of racks, with an exit to a hexagonal yard area with the other blocks (ours were really called dorms, but block is a universal term for your rack).
In terms of other movies I've seen - American History X was total bullshit. There isn't just one guard in the showers, they're in front of perspex with at least a few watching the cons to make sure nothing happens.
The most accurate depiction of prison life you'll ever see is the 2nd series of The Wire. While I think that's set in a much bigger pen, the culture and the attitudes are note perfect. In particular, the attitudes of gang members, who despite what you think have this scary calm about serving time.
You could say I'm on the other side, OP. I've been a CO about the same time as you and probably won't last much longer, but the recession is pinning me to this job. But I'm about to say fuck it anyway and go back to school. I'm not a very good CO. Along with all the things you mentioned about the smell (I don't think there has been a week since I started working there that someone hasn't fucked around with their feces) it's the long-ass hours and freezing and the uneasy feeling that I could be one of them. While I would never compare the shit I go through to the stuff that goes on inside, it is hard to hold a relationship, have kids, or have an active social life while being a CO. But most of all there are the pricks. Being a CO for any more than a year makes you a prick, and I'm not excluded. And even then I'm nicer to the inmates than any other white CO I know. 90% of my prison is black, so you just feel safer and less prickish if you have black COs.
The whole experience has made me jaded and cynical and not just prisons but humanity.
Make no mistake OP, you may no longer be behind bars but no matter how long your sentence is you are sentenced to a lifetime of unemployment (even if you find a job it will be utter shit) and being looked down upon. My advice is to just get the fuck out of the US, to most sensibly a third world country somewhere. But by God if nothing else get the fuck out of Michigan and go out west or something (maybe Canada, but they do scrutinize immigrant's criminal records). There are ways you can start a new identity, and as long as you don't look like a hard-ass convict with swastikas all over your face you might be able to throw dirt over your record and live a relatively normal life. Good luck whatever you do.
Respecting COs is probably the only thing that kept me alive on a few occassions, and I totally understood where a lot of them were coming from. In the beginning, it's tempting to be a smart ass but eventually, you realise prison is all about getting by. And you get by with respect. Respect means a lot to convicts, but very few of them show COs any, because of this institutional mentality that sets in. I found that greeting shake downs with a respectful 'just doing your job boss' meant a lot to COs, and it affected the way they treated you. I most respected the guys like you who were clearly just there to do a job and get the fuck out. Convicts can pick guys like you. You get to know shift changes like you know times of day after a while. Most of our shake downs would happen straight after a shift change the new guys were at their sharpest, and you could always pick the pricks because they were the ones who'd stick around 'in case some shit goes down' like they were doing everyone a favour. But really, anyone who wanted to spend an extra second in that place had to be twisted in the fucking brain.
OP, that is a wicked story you got there.
I heard from a prison guard I met at a party that the guards will basically give the biggest bastards an extra pack of smokes or quart of milk so when shit hits the fan, the big dudes wont go out and make it difficult for the officials. Is that true? By "big guys" I guess I mean all the mass murders and fuck off huge buff guys who'd be pretty hard to bring down.
Anyway, I hope you readjust to society OP, have some sticky.
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Actually, that is very much true. Only not smokes, guards don't distribute stock and snacks to convicts. The biggest thing in your life the COs have over you is visiting hours and phone calls. But favouritism wasn't based on being a 'big guy' or who was most feared - those kinds of convicts were put upon the worst. It hinged on how much respect you commanded, if people would listen to you, and if you could actually convey a message. If people would listen to you, the COs would use you.
The standard come on would be, when you were on the phone, they'd come up about 3 seconds before your time would be up and hang up the phone, then they'd say, there is gonna be a shake down, or a mass transfer, or a 24 hour lock down tomorrow. They'd take you into their confidence and make it clear what was expected of you. Then they'd redial the number and restart the timer, effectively doubling your phone time.
They tried it with me once and we nearly got into an argument about it. I say nearly because arguing with a boss is always a bad idea. I was at my absolute worst in terms of using, but I wasn't a bitch, and I wasn't so fucked up that I couldn't get a word out effectively - so the boss says there is going to be a 24 hour lock down tomorrow because of an escape attempt in one of the other blocks, and he needed me to keep the peace on my tier. I basically said to him 'look at me, I can't keep my fucking pants up let along communicate a complex idea like that to my neighbours' but it's made pretty clear I have no choice in the matter.
That afternoon, I get a chinese whisper going about the lock down, but it's a dangerous thing. Because even though the other convicts know you're the guy with the info - some of them will be wondering if you've been tipped off because you're a snitch, or else some people just shoot the messenger when it comes to bad news - or stab the messenger. I got away with it by blaming it on those fuckers from O Dorm. It was kind of funny because the boss' got wind of that, and forever after any bad news would be announced by saying it was O Dorm's fault we were all getting fucked. You create a siege mentality and convicts will take anything.
A funny thing about lockdowns - you know how the day before a public holiday people will go crazy and hit all the stores to stock up on food? It's like that inside. The reason the boss' always leaks a lock down is so we buy as much candy as we possibly can, as many smokes, and as much gear as we can cram up our assholes and go quietly back to our cells. That particular lockdown ended up being 72 hours. As far as prison experiences go, they're the most interesting. It's kind of like going on a camp out. You often get guys 'hot racking', where they'll swap cell mates with their bros, or just apedophile groupon cells completely and move their bedding over to hold little sleep overs where they play cards and talk shit. Strangely enough, as bad as a lock down sounds, they really brought blocks together in mutual hatred, and broke up the monotony. I often wondered if the screws didn't just throw them at random to keep us interested.
So insightful. You're such a smart and interesting guy, OP. I showed this thread to my flatmate tonight who never ever looks at anything on here as much as I bug him to occasionally and he was amazed by you. Not to suck your dick or anything but yeah, you're very impressive.
This is a question for later or tomorrow or something because you've got enough to contend with for now but what did you miss most about sex while inside? Just the sex itself or the intimacy? I know there are cliches on both sides about that so I was wondering what your thoughts were.
This is a really interesting question. So much so I went and had a smoke and a think about it.
You know how a lot of people that hang around these boards will say how they're desensitised to sexuality? How years of the most twisted porn the Internet's underbelly can offer has made them numb? I guess I was like that going in. If you had have asked me, the day before I went inside, what my ultimate sexual fantasy was I'd have said something stupid like 'Emma Waton, a rubber tube, two mexican fighting fish, a chainsaw and a bucket of grease'.
Now, I shit you not, my answer would more likely be 'a beautiful woman that loves me'.
Every convict has a jack bank. Scraps of magazines, smuggled porn, that kind of thing. I used to keep mine under the inner sole of my sneaker. If you took a survey of what convicts keep in their jack bank, you'd be shocked to learn that mostly, it's women's faces. The single most sought after item in the common area was the TV guide. Because you'd get full page ads for movies and beautiful women. Fucking up the TV guide was a hangable offence, since our TV was pre recorded and edited to cut out the news, and anything not G rated, you needed the TV guide to keep track of what you were missing out on. As an aside, one of the most surreal moments inside was the Superbowl, all these convicts crowded around this caged screen watching a repeat of Blue's Clues - muttering about how the Superbowl was really on. It was like even though they couldn't watch it, they wanted to be a part of a national, communal activity. Two days later they replayed the Superbowl, with the ads and half time show taken out - no one watched it. How fucking weird is that?
So yeah, I got side tracked while talking about the TV Guide. The keeper of the TV Guide would be whoever scored it out of a mail bag. Usually the guy on mail duty. And after a few weeks, you'd ask, as nicely as possible, preferebly with a gift of candy, if you could take a look, and maybe later, in return for smokes - you'd cut something out. I cut out a half page ad for The Other Boleyn Girl. Actually, i'll find it an post it here.
Now you think about the shit you can get with just three clicks from here. You can hit up one of the porn boards and be jerking away in minutes. You'd probably even not jerk off to soft core porn, because just a few clicks away, you could see some whore being cranked by 9 guys and getting glazed with cum.
I guess in the real world, where life is mundane and boring - you need those fantasies of dark sexual shit to keep you going. But inside, there is just dark shit everywhere. Violence, death, fear. You don't want it in your head. So no matter what you were like before, inside, you try and escape in your head to places that are good and just... decent I guess.
You go from having elaborate rape fantasies to having sweet, candle lit intimacy fantasies. Sounds gay, but it's true for most guys inside I think.
It changes the way you think about women. When I went inside, I was full of bitterness over the mother of my kid leaving, I felt like my sister had betrayed me, so I left her - and I thought of some of the girl's I'd used in my life and felt like they were pathetic sluts.
But inside, I would have given anything to know just one of them loved me - and when I say love, I don't mean like, I'd want to marry them, or that kind of passionate, movie love. Just that they'd consent to being intimate with me.
I don't think I mentioned it before, but I spent a few months inside under the impression that I'd been infected with hepatitis - thankfully I wasn't, but that really compounded this need for intimacy, because I felt like, even once I got out, a woman would never touch me again.
I should note too - there is a long running conspiracy theory inside that the boss' put something in the food that numbs arousal. The usual response to this is 'if so, why are you still jacking off to your mom?' or 'then why do you keep staring at my ass?' but still, it might not be a joke.
So anyway, this has all been pretty grim shit. So since I started with a list of the worst things about prison, I thought I'd leave [sic] with a list of the best things about freedom. Not sappy bullshit about your parents and sunshine - but things you probably take for granted because you've never had them taken away.
Laughter
No one laughs inside. You might occassionally fake a laugh when someone does something stupid, or gets what they deserve. But inside you laugh at straight up irony. Nothing is really funny when you're locked in a concrete bunker with seemingly no hope of getting out.
When I went inside, my favourite things were horror movies and violent video games. But now I can't stand the thought of them. I've seen too much real violence for one life time.
Instead I've burned through three seasons of 30 Rock. I haven't laughed so hard in my entire life. I find myself laughing at shit that a couple of years ago I would have been too jaded and cynical to laugh at, or thought that it wasn't cool to laugh at. Now I find myself cruising through Metacritic for the funniest films of the last two years. I liked to think that I used to be funny, but now, I realise I'm not. That I look in the mirror and there is this kind of grimness there.
So don't take laughter for granted. It can actually be taken away quite easily.
Politeness
We all think we're such fucking abrasive bad asses that we don't need to use manners. I used to be the biggest offender. But inside, it just starts to grate on you after a while - that you're forced to be polite to the boss, but your daily interactions with convicts are typified by cursing, shoving, and basically barbaric behaviour.
Basic human decency becomes the thing you miss the most. Saying 'please' and 'thank you' and 'you're welcome' just simple shit like that reminds you you're human, that you're a part of society.
The things I've enjoyed most since I've left are just mundane things that allow me congenial interactions with people. Paying for the bus. Talking to the person you're sitting next too. Buying a sandwich. Excusing yourself when you pass someone on an escalator. Helping people. I helped a woman get her pram off the bus this morning, and she probably walked away thinking 'what a nice young man' without realising I've just spent two years locked inside cesspool of human indignity for threatening a room full of people with a firearm. That wasn't lost on me, but none the less it made me feel good about myself. Being nice makes you feel good about yourself and inside - you never feel good about yourself.
Clothes
I will never wear the same clothes two days in a row for as long as I live. Inside, I had two pairs of elastic waist track pants, two t-shirts, a wool sweater, and a peacoat with the buttons taken off. Three pairs of boxers. I started with more - but I shit myself a few times when I was high. Not proud of that. I had two pairs of laceless sneakers, like vans, and a pair of flip flops. In winter, we'd basically wear all our clothes at once.
When I got home, I was wearing the suit I stood trial in. I gave my prison clothes to a convict in return for some toothpaste. I opened my closet, and realised how all my old clothes were so black. I just wanted color. Like a hawaian shirt or something. Inside, every thing was variations on blue, beige and lime green. I wanted to wear all red like Jack White or something.
Clothes don't maketh the man - but damn if they don't make you feel better about your place in the universe. Just wearing jeans that fit, a belt, nice shoes - never take that for granted. It's not like I was ever a fucking fashion plate or anything, but now I have this new found appreciation for looking nice.
They actually taught me how to sew inside. I've been wondering if I couldn't maybe become a tailor or something. America's first straight, ex-con fashion designer.
That last thing you should never take for granted is this - your mental health. Every day I woke up sober inside (at some points, they were rare) I'd stare at the ceiling and talk to myself. Sometime's out loud. I'd take stock of my own level of madness. How justified was my paranoia today. What did I dream of last night. What kind of bad things will float through my head if I don't control it. I'd literally have to take stock of my own psychological well being.
No one should have to do that. Because questioning your sanity is like picking at a scab - once you start it bleeding you can't help but keep picking. And by virtue of your questioning, you make it true.
I went more than a little crazy inside. The insane amount of smack I ingested might have had something to do with it. But more likely the circumstances. For me, the punishment of prison was less about separation, and more about the forced introspection.
Imagine a kind of forced autism, only without being any kind of savant. That's what prison is. Outside, you're free to keep your head in check. You're free to indulge your mind and keep it healthy. And I guess if you keep your mind healthy, you'll be less inclined to find yourself inside in the first place.
>So where are you living right now, OP? Are you still at that motel? Do you >have your own comp or are you posting from an internet cafe or library or something? I'm back at my own place. Cable was disconnected while I was gone but I can get wireless. Place smells so fucking bad because the power was cut, fridge defrosted, and the inside kind of looks like someone died in there. It's better than the men's shelter though where most parolees end up.
Strangely, I'm pretty sure the place has been broken into, probably several times, but they only took DVDs. I suspect my ex-[girlfriend] might have been living here while I was inside. But seriously this fridge looks like it's been stewing in mould for about a century. If I wasn't so distracted by looking at porn and streaming MTV and Comedy Network I'd probably look up how to clean it. As it is, I've wheeled the fucker outside.
>They actually taught me how to sew inside. I've been wondering if I couldn't maybe become a tailor or >something. America's first straight, ex-con fashion designer.
>>527493 here. I was wondering what kind of skills you have to work with - both from before and during your >incarceration. Who knows, perhaps someone here might be able to hook you up with a job.
My other question has to do with solitary, because I've felt myself strangely attracted to the idea of being in solitary confinement and sometimes wonder how I would cope. Could you explain the experience a little more, and your reactions to it (if it's not too overwhelming to think about)?
It's kind of funny; but all of the things you are listing about freedom that shouldn't be taken for granted - I really do appreciate and spend time reveling in them, and then I feel like I'm odd because most people just don't. I'm not sure that I have any particular reason why I do this, either. Perhaps a penchant for introspection and pessimism (or as I like to say, realism) about the way things are forces me focus on the small joys of life. Aren't they wonderful?
Also OP, I have to say that I was nearly moved to tears by some of your recent posts. It hadn't happened up until now - perhaps because I have heard/read a few things about prisons before, or perhaps your story is becoming more personal.
Anyways, thanks for answering all these questions. I hope this conversation is benefitting you as much as the rest of us.
It's disturbing, and a little embarrasing, but I'd graduated a college before going away.
As for solitary:
The offical term for it is 'administrative segregation' or ad seg, or the dungeon. Our was a low, hexagonal building with no exits and one entry, through a wire fenched tunnel. Inside your cell, which about two, three feet smaller than a normal cell and only as narrow as the door, you have two doors, one in out into the main room where the boss' have access to the other six room, and the other door to a fenced yard no more than three paces across from corner to corner. That door would unlock for an hour, than a light would come on telling you to go back inside, than you might get one or two more hours a day if they need to hold another convict in your cell before transfer, or before being taken to infirmary. But you never see another human the whole time.
Standard time in ad seg was three days to a week. Longer for the most serious infractions.
My first time in solitary was during a mass transfer, which is when our pen would be filled with extra inmates from another pen over night before being moved on. I was there for three days. The first day wasn't so bad. In the beginning, I thought 'this is interesting' at least. And I kind of enjoyed being alone. I jacked off a lot. The second day, I read the bible. Which is the only book allowed in ad seg. The third day... I began to imagine I'd been forgotten about, and I started to panic. Like Mau-dib says "Fear is the Mind Killer". Once you start down the road, there is no going back. You think you can handle it, like being alone isn't so bad, like it's almost a relief... But they make the room just the slight little bit too small. You lose track of time. You can't see the light or figure out what day it is. You resort to counting out loud the seconds. You can't distract yourself anymore and you start pacing but there isn't enough room to pace and it just makes it worse. I'd never had a panic attack before, so I didn't know what to expect. My heart just started pounding out of my chest and I felt like I was going to faint. I wanted to faint, so I could at least sleep and waste some time. But I couldn't. I ended up by stay in ad seg screaming for help, until they came in and tasered me. I woke up back in my old cell.
The next morning, they pulled me out of bed, and said because I fucked up in ad seg... I'd be put back in ad seg. For a week. I screamed and tried to get away on my way back so they put leg cuffs on me and didn't take them off. I got tasered again. This just made it worse.
That was when I decided to get some dope as soon as I was out.
On the plus side, I now have scary accurate recall of obscure biblical passages.
What'd you major in, OP? I'm willing to bet that it wasn't armed robbery. This is turning out to be a very interesting thread, the best we've had in some time. Your story is very intriguing, and I'd like ti know more about the protagonist. Tell us a bit more about yourself, like what you did in school, what led you to do what you did. This way we can get a clearer image of a 'before and after'. Also, you should really get off the drugs, man. Any way you can. Maybe you could check into re-hab. So your parents paid for your house, but they cut the power, cable, etc... How'd you get a computer, how are you getting around, what money are you living off of and where'd it come from? I'm intrigued by the logistics of it.
I don't want to give away too much of my personal information, but I'll say as much as I feel I can:
I didn't grow up in Michigan, but my parents had been thinking of moving to Ann Arbor, which co-incided with UMich being the closest thing to Ivy League I was going to get into. I was at the LSA, College of Literature - but I flunked out of language training. Mom and Dad fronted the cash for me to study overseas, hoping I'd get to Europe and actually learn enough German / French for me to come back the next semester and finish my degree. I ended up traveling with a bunch of Australians and decided to fuck off college and head to Sydney. Mom and Dad threatened to stop funding what was becoming basically an all expenses paid drug binge unless I re-enrolled, and I convinced them to pay for me to go to the University of Sydney - which is just this spectacular campus right in the heart of the city, only half an hour from some of the most beautiful beaches you'll ever see in your life. I stayed for 3 years and actually manged to piece together a degree. I told my parents I wanted to stay, and had already applied to extend my student Visa - but they told me if I did they'd cut me off.
It was the stupidest thing I ever did in my life, driven by laziness and privlidge, but I decided to go back to the States. In Australia, university is different - they don't have a distinction between college and uni - you can get your BA at 21 and off you go. Mom and Dad didn't think it was good enough so they wanted me back at Uni doing a post grad course. They're both academics and they didn't want to cut me lose without a 'proper education'. Fucking backfired because Michigan depressed me so much I ended up fucking off to Detroit and squating, bar tending, just generally being a miscreant really. Long story short, that's where I was when we decided we could get away with a stick up job.
So basically - I was an over privlidged little fuck who had the world laid out at his feet, and threw it all up down the toilet. One of the many things that prison taught me - especially after being confronted with the suffering and abject poverty of black convicts - is take what you're given and don't argue. Because you got lucky. You could have been born black with a crack pipe in your crib. Crib as in, cot, not you know, a house. I might have done time but I'm not that ebonic.
just read the thread.
i'm curious, OP, as to exactly how friendly or unfriendly people are in there. i mean if you walked by some guy (or a group of guys) you've never met, would you just stare straight ahead?
how often were you scared of being attacked? were some attacks on other inmates random? was there a small group of guys that got shit on the most?
great thread by the way.
Well people are not friendly. You build a network like this - your cell mate, who is pretty much forced to deal with you day in and day out, then his friends - thanks to prison ethnic populations, as a white guy, if you're racked with a black guy - he'll be your best friend after lights out and during lock down, but chances are he'll spit on you if he's with his people. This isn't a big deal. You see it coming a mile off. I was lucky in that my first long term cell mate, by virtue of being an older guy, hung with a more diverse group of old timers who were more accepting. They respected, to a degree, the fact I wasn't in on drugs, so we had that in common. These guys were all stick ups and a couple of murders. But they were also deeply suspicous of my light years, and the fact I was white.
Forget what you've heard about black gangs, there is only one black gang - the black gang. They put all their bullshit aside inside and pull together, look out for each other. You really have to respect that. Aryan Brotherhood, or at least our pasty wannabe Aryans in my pen were cunts of the highest order. You didn't make eye contact with them. You didn't buy off them. Trade with them. Talk to them. Most of them couldn't even fuck you up in my prison, they were weedy little shitbirds who got nasty nazi tats to look tough. But... Just by virtue of getting the brands, they could make your life hell by fucking with you until you get a transfer... where their real brothers might be waiting.
So yeah. People are not friendly inside. It's an endless shit fight of politics and fuckery.
This one hits me particularly hard. I feel like this, but at all times. Even in my attempts to drown out massive parts of my psych, I always feel this part of me that sits and stares at all of my faults, examining, saying 'Look here! Another failing! You are faulty!' Because of you OP, I'm going to visit a psychologist tomorrow and talk to some of my best friends for help. Thank You.
I do have a question for you. I've had this belief that you can't really know yourself until you've experienced a great tragedy in your life. This can be a near death experience (this feels similar, as you surmised earlier), the loss of a loved one, or any number of extremely harrowing 'adventures'. Do you feel this is true?
It's easily evident that you have grown a lot as a person. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, as they say. Would you consider this a level of enlightenment, where your life is now more fulfilled after these experiences? Or if you had the chance, you would roll everything back and be the man before the crime?
Thank you for even considering to continue to answer our questions.
OP here. Will still answer questions when ever I stop by since some of you get a kick out of it.
There was a kind of 'mini-riot' in our dorm not long before I got out. A fight started over something in the yard, I didn't see what, and the boss, who must have been new or something, decided the best way to deal with it was to coral convicts back into the common area and push everyone back into their cells. Me and about three other guys were all ready in our cells, which were on the top tier of our block, and so we're looking down at about 20 COs trying to push about 50-60 convicts through a set of double doors.
One of the COs was getting his face smashed in by two guys on either side of him, so another CO has gone to hit one of them with his taser.
Now I don't know what happened, I think this one boss forgot he still had a cartridge loaded - mostly in a situation like that, the COs use the 'contact' taser, which is the little pistol but they have to press it into you to shock you - so he's gone to do that, but fired off a cartridge, the one that sends off the two spikes into the target. As best anyone could figure it, one of the prongs has gone into the convict, and another has gone into the CO being pummeled. So when the convict tries to grab him, it closes the circuit and they both get zapped.
It was like dumping a bag of bloody mince into a shark pool. As soon as the boss went down, every convict in the fray just pounced on him, and even guys who couldn't possibly have seen it from our vantage point dived in, as if they could smell the sudden weakness. Me and a few other guys just watched - because we could hear the rapid response team coming. The guys with whom you did not fuck.
I turned to this old timer, and by old timer I mean he's probably 30 or so, but he'd been in a decade - and said 'there are people in the free world that would pay money for shit like that'. He's nodded sagely and said 'son, life is not an extreme sport.'
I guess, in a roundabout kind of way, that's how I feel on the whole 'adversity makes you stronger' kick. Life is not an extreme sport.
Before I went away, I was kind of an adrenelin junky. That's one of the factor's that lead me to commiting my crime in the first place. I used to think you couldn't truly know yourself until you'd put your body and mind through intense experiences. But prison taught me this isn't true. That's privlidged, middle class logic.
What prison taught me was that some people are born into a life where they're going to be subjected to intense life experiences and personal tragedy on an almost daily basis.
So no, I don't think you get enlightenment after something like that. I think all anyone really wants, if they're honest with themselves, is a quiet, easy life surrounded by people that love them. Anything else is a conceit.
Simple question, what was the first thing you said to your cell-mate when you got in (and vice versa I guess)? I'm actually curious to know how that conversation goes most the time. I just can't see "sup" being the usual ice breaker.
There isn't a convict alive who over time doesn't become intimately aware of just how bad ass they seem by virtue of being inside. There isn't a guy inside who doesn't allow himself that exagerated swagger because 'he a convict' and he doesn't take shit from no one. A part of that swagger is silent intimidation. If you really want to scare someone you say nothing. So introductions to new cellmates usually begin with long periods of silence. You stand on the thresh hold, clutching your bedding like it's an anchor to the free world and your cellmate just stares at you, for a long, long time. You don't say anything, because they don't look like they're going to say anything back. You could be racked with a white collar fraudster and they'll still give you the same treatment, because back in the day they got the same treatment and so on and so forth all the way back to the first guy that ever got locked up in some dungeon thousands of years ago.
I had three cellmates I racked with for any length of time and a dozen or so more who were cycled in during transfers or when gen pop swelled over summer. Eventually, they ask you what you're in for. I always imagined there would be some kind of prison slang for this, like I'd be asked what I was in for but in some alien prison kant that I wouldn't understand. But luckily, you're just asked 'what you in for'. And then you and the other guy do a little dance around it, you ask him what he's in for, he doesn't tell you, you tell him maybe one of your charges, he tells you one of his and on and on. And then you both end up bitching about the criminal justice system. No one, and this is unexpected, no one is a total asshole to their cellmate. It's just counter productive. Even the biggest asshole inside will still show a degree of respect to the person you're going to be locked up with. Because you don't want bad blood in the cell unless you want to sleep with one eye open.
There was a guy we were inside with though, whose cell was on the low tier nearest the main door. So he was the first one to see the fresh meat. Anytime a new inmate would be brought in, he'd yell out 'he fuck babies, I seen him, he fucked a baby, I seen him before I went away niggers, he a baby fucker kill that baby fucker!' and he'd do this every fucking time a new inmate would be brought in. And he'd go on with it for about half an hour afterwards to. So the first thing a prospective convict would hear on being greated to the dorm would be this nigger, with this high pitched Canadian accent - like Steve Erkel - hollaring about how he'd seen you, and that you were a baby fucker.
So when the new inmate would be brought inside, he'd get the silent treatment the whole time this crackhead would be barking about the baby fucker. And then his cellmate would lean in real close and whisper 'you a baby fucker?'
Prison humour is never really funny. That's probably the closest thing we ever had to a running gag. I guess it was funny because we all knew child sex offenders ever got locked in with us... but the new guys didn't know that.
You know what, I had just sort of assumed you graduated from college - and didn't really realise my assumption until you made that comment. Anyways, why be embarrassed? It makes you different than many armed robbers, and you can probably use that fact and your education to your advantage.
About ad seg - that sounds scarily intense. And yes, fear would make it so much worse.
Hey, I know you've doing the ReEntry 'therapy' sessions, and talking about things here - but are you planning to tell your family about how things were? I think they'll probably ask you at some point; and it might not be a bad idea to go ahead and tell them so that they don't underestimate what you've gone through and you don't feel like you have to wear a mask in front of them. Think of it as restarting the relationship on honest terms. It's not too late to mend fences, and it sounds like they do want you to remain involved. Why not accept their help and support to get your life going again?
Literacy levels in prison are fucking awful. If I were in a gang, when I wasn't selling crack and doing drive by shootings, I'd be making sure prospective gang members knew how to read because inside, there isn't much else to do.
A lot of cons end up teaching themselves how to read because there isn't much else to do apart from get a library book. But writing is fucking horrendous. My spelling is bad, and as a few people have pointed out it's even worse from having studied abroad, but you would be hard pressed to find many convicts who can string a sentence together with a pen.
One of my cellmates was functionally illiterate and so with nothing else to do, I'd help him write letters for his appeals and back to his daughter. He told his people, who then started coming to me as well, so for a while, I had a steady supply of Reece's Pieces in return for helping people write letters. It wasn't a Dead Poet's Society moment or anything - I didn't teach anyone how to write and we didn't all end up holding hands and feeling we'd grown as humans. It was just a good way to pass time. But sooner or later I got asked how come I could write, and so I told them I'd been to University, thinking I'd just get put upon for a while - convicts will pick on you for anything. But instead everyone just seemed really disappointed. Instead of cracking jokes about it, they seemed genuinely upset that a white kid, with a college degree, would be so stupid as to get himself locked up inside. So I was made to feel kind of embarrased, and ashamed at having an education - a shame that I still haven't kicked having got out.
As for talking to my parents about it, I had lunch with them today. My Mom clearly doesn't want to know about it, she just seems to think that now I'm back that 'part of my life is over' - but my Dad seems really cut up over it. He keeps coming outside with me for cigarettes - he doesn't smoke, and he just stands there as if he really wants to ask me something. I know what it, I know he wants to know if I was raped inside... and it kind of pisses me off. As if he thinks that the worst thing that can happen to you in prison is being raped.
So no, I haven't really discussed it with my parents and I probably won't.
Just curious OP, have you considered doing some public speaking? The stuff in this thread is the kind of shit I would have actually payed attention to when one of those goofy preachy anti-drug groups would send speakers back when I was in high school. Being well spoken all by itself makes it better than hearing some wretched burn out ruinate the language while failing to make their point. That or maybe consider writing or whatever.
When I was inside, I felt like I should be keeping a diary, I felt like I owed it to myself. But everytime I could score sufficent paper, I would sit there and stare at the page with nothing to say.
Since getting out, I've been writing constantly. Just everything that pops into my head. I considered, briefly, getting a blog or something - but at the moment, I don't want any chance of being identified.
So I came here. I'm not going to go on a speaking circuit or anything. This story isn't unique. Quote: In response to the questions about my spelling:
If anons want to pick holes in things that's fine. I'm not going to get in arguments, because that's not why I wanted to post. I was really desperate to share this with anyone, under the guise of anonymity, and I thought [sic], more than anywhere else I frequently go, would be interested.
I instinctively add a u to a few words from having written a lot with a UK English spell checker and I never suffix '-iser' with a 'z'.
Of course there are holes in some things. I won't answer everything. I probably exagerate things a little to - but if you want factual and unbiased reporting you should try CNN and not [sic].
Hey OP, great thread. I have a question that I want to ask you-
What sort of food do you usually get on a daily basis? I know you mentioned that the food is fattening- but you surely must have at least some vegetables or some proper nutritious food.
The food is not as bad as you'd think, but devoid of any nutrional value and incredibly unhealthy.
Everything inside is about limiting the aggression of convicts. If they could get away with it, we'd all cop a shot of valium every morning and another before bed. One of the best ways of doing that is to serve up food that doesn't piss people off, in big enough quantities that cons can get full, happy, and unlikely to start fights.
One of my cellmates had been in the Marine Corps, and he said the food inside was better than what he got in the Marines. But he said they had a strategy too - that bad food brought Marines together, gave them something to communally hate. They want to do the opposite inside, and not give us anything to bond over.
Prison food consists of three meals a day served in a dining hall accessed by all the other blocks / dorms. This makes it one of the most volitile places in your pen, because there is a lot of anemity between blocks over who's responsible for lock downs, and a lot of people borrow from convicts outside of their block because those people are easy to avoid until chow time. Keeping cons more interested in their food than each other is crucial to avoid confrontations.
Breakfast was always oatmeal, beans, toast and a rotating assortment of knock off cereal. Like instead of Fruit Loops you'd get 'Fruit Balls' or something from Mexico. They never tasted quite right. Milk was always powdered, in a big dispenser ironically labeled 'Fresh Milk'. We'd also get what we were told was organge juice, only it had no actual oranges in it. Was just a orange colored sugary syrup. You'd only go to breakfast if you had no food of your own stashed, except for Thursdays, where there might be powdered eggs and bacon. I kind of liked the powdered eggs, they were almost identical to the ones you get at McDonalds.
Lunch was rarely attended by anyone and would almost always be ingredients for sandwiches. Junkies would go to lunch only to hoard bread, which is an excellent filter for smack, since cotton balls were impossible to come by. You'd let the bread start to go a little bit dry, and then you'd make little balls out of it and put them over your plunger. When you suck the smack into the plunger, the impurities would get caught in the bread. Then you could ball the bread back up and stash it with the rest of your food. During a shake down, the boss would come down hard if they found cottons, that is, cotton balls with heroin residue on them, but they wouldn't be able to tell if your bread had been tainted. Then if your connect ever got shook down and you were without drugs for any length of time, you could suck on the bread balls.
The first time I went to dinner, I thought I must have came on some kind of special night, because I wasn't prepared for the 'feast' laid out for us. I can still see it in my head, because it was the same every night. From left to right: fried chicken, only because a fryer would have been too much of a brutal weapon to have in the pen, it was fried off-site and shipped in to be reheated in the microwave. So it was soggy. That was the extent of your pure protein too. Then three pizzas - these fuckers were huge, industrial sized slabs. Just a base, that resembled corrogated cardboard on the underside, with a sauce that was really just ketchup and cheese. Endless mounds of melted, processed cheese. There would be two of these, and one with pepperoni, only it wasn't really pepperoni, it had no pepper. Just a bland kind of red sausage. Each day the pizzas would be laid out in a different pattern, and I imagined that I could divine the future based on the direction the pepperoni pizza was pointed.
Then mac and cheese - this was actually the best thing on the menu, since it most closely resembled something you'd eat on the outside, then nachos, the lasagne. The nachos and lasange looked identical, being two giant trays of an unknown red meat sauce, covered in flat, yellow soggy 'chips' or 'pasta' covered in cheese. Basically tasted the same. Then there was the bean dip, which was another tray of refriend beans and the closest thing to vegetables on the menu, tiny cubed peppers and tomatos and corn. The bean dip was marked 'vegetarian'. On the first day I wondered if they saw where I'd written 'Raw Vegan' under dietry needs on my medical form. Then a giant tray of more corn chips, then a giant tray of powdered mash, a pot of gravy, which would occassionaly accompany a roast of some description on holidays. Then fruit, which was another tray of diced fruit in syrup. Usually pears and peaches.
Sugar. Salt. Fat. The key to a safe and happy correctional facility. I don't know how we didn't get scurvy.
> ... they pulled me out of bed, and said because I fucked up in ad seg... This is just fucked up. There is no reason why this should still be going on in this day and age. It isn't rehabilitation or punishment - it's just plain fucking awful and entirely unnecessary. What cunts.
Anyway, OP. I hope you never stop writing on this thread, you know. You're just amazing. Something you said here really got me thinking like the other guy. When you said "And by virtue of your questioning, you make it true". I read that this morning and I've been reflecting on it all day and it made me realise something about an issue I've been struggling with recently. It just made me look at it from a different perspective and I realised something pretty significant and, yeah, well, I guess I've decided to walk away from that issue and with some strength now. I just want to thank you, man. I know it's not related to what you're talking about but I just wanted to tell you anyway because it goes to show I think that your self honesty and amazing attitude towards what's happened to you has a much wider and infinitely more positive impact. I know it's early days and you're out and you've got a road of some difficulty ahead of you but you are a seriously awesome human being and I think you're going to live quite a life. If you ever get to London, I'd be seriously honoured to buy you a beer or two.
In terms of people you were imprisoned with, can you give us any perspectives or stories on them? Sort of the person behind the crime kind of thing? Also, are you planning on looking up any of your old friends at all?
Also, I'll always remember this: "... real freedom. Is choosing how you waste your life". You're seriously some guy, OP. I agree with that other person that you should do talks for kids or something.
I'm glad it helped you. As far as perspectives on other cons - there weren't that many good stories in there. I guess you need to take a lot of prison stories like old fishing tales, because if they were all true than every cop would be corrupt, every judge would be on the take, every DA would be incompetent and every convict the victim of tragic, innocent circumstance.
Most people didn't talk about their personal circumstances because they were all so similar, and similarly tragic. You'd hear a lot of black inmates talking about 'the game' and 'the hustle' and they'd shoot the words around when talking about their busts - how 'they'd been rolled in the game' or 'the game played them'. They liked to use the term when talking to crackers like me to highlight how they were original gangsters arrested just trying to make their way in a crazy, white man's world that refuses to legalise crack cocaine and heroin.
But the reality was most of those guys were in on mid level possession and distribution, they were dealer's dealers or just runners, or they might just have been in a dealer's car and been stuck with a bad public defender. A lot of them would go to great pains to remind you that they were picked up on possession AND firearms, as if that important distinction meant they were a real gangster.
You go inside thinking you're going to be surrounded by all these angry, violent black men but interestingly most of them are inside for non-violent offences. White cons were the ones inside for assaults, murders and attempted murders. And because of that notion, that all black cons are murderous, crack slinging, gun toting rapists they get this siege mentality that makes them even more violent inside.
I certainly won't be catching up with any of them. Ever. And not any time soon where being seen with one could get me put back inside.
Awesome thread, please write more! Really incredible stuff. If all you say is true, I'm amazed at how bad it really is.
This might be a stupid question; but what kinds of things are you allowed to have and do in your cell? More specifically, are you allowed to have books? Or non-dangerous drawing/writing supplies? What did you (or could you) do with all the time?
Also, are the people who work there (warden, guards, etc.) complete sadists?
As we were constantly reminded, convicts did not have 'possessions' only 'things the boss allows you to keep for a time of his choosing'. Some convicts had nothing. Just the clothes on their back. Others accrued whole stockpiles of books and appliances. You could have whatever you could get away with dependant on your behaviour, your ability to protect it from theft, and your ability to share it equitably with your cellmate. You're also limited to there being one outlet in each cell, switched on for 1 hour each morning and between 3HNNNNNNNNNG0 (read: 3:30) and lights out, and a complex process of approval, disapproval, reapproval resubmission and outright begging before being sent any kind of electronic device.
I took stock of my possessions each day, counted them, touched, them, arranged them on my shelf. You basically had a square half foot of space to store things on. The COs liked them displayed clearly so they could quickly see if you had any contrapedophile group, or were obviously trying to hide anything.
I had two books that were mine - James Joyce's Finnegan's Wake and Harlot's Ghost by Norman Mailer. I was reading Harlot's Ghost because I told myself after Mailer died I was going to read his entire back catalogue, my Mom sent that one to me because it was the only book I had at their house. On the day of my sentencing, I asked my Dad to go to a bookstore and buy me a copy of Finnegan's Wake because I'd heard it was long, dense and unreadable and having already been inside for my bail breach I thought it would be the perfect book for doing time.
I didn't finish it. And I gave it away when I left.
I scored a copy of William Gibson's Mona Lisa Overdrive from another con when he left. It was a bizarre book to find inside, and was probably the best thing I read the whole time, since the library mostly stocked Ludlum-style airport novels - which I read anyway. Strangely absent from the library was The Da Vinci Code, Twilight and the Harry Potter novels. Apparently any book challenged by the State's school board - even if it makes it through, isn't allowed inside. Yet oddly enough I was able to find a copy of Bret Easton Ellis' Glamorama. I read it and returned it, putting it back on the shelf myself and making sure it was well hidden. That book would have started a riot.
Beyond my clothes, I had a small electric razor that I never used - using my time inside to grow a pretty spectacular beard. The COs preferred it if you had an electric razor, since they were harder to kill anyone with. Mine was also an excellent place to stash contrapedophile group. I had a few photos, my parents, my ex-sister and I in Thailand, my daughter when she was first born.
Prison makes you realise just how much we rely on digital photographs. I realised I didn't have any hard copies at all before I went away, everything was on my computer or my phone. My photo of my daughter was a folded up piece of paper printed out before I left.
I had a small electric urn, one coffee cup, one spoon with a hole drilled through it, and an old walkman tapedeck. CD players are forbidden inside since CDs can easily be turned into weapons. Headphones were technically contrapedophile group, but you wouldn't get shook down just for headphones.
My sister was going to make me mix tapes and send them to me, but she only made me one before we broke up. Every single song on that tape is dead to me now.
That was about it, apart from my contrapedophile group, which at anyone time was two needles and a plunger.
What are you going to do about your daughter?
That... is a good question. And if [sic] wants to offer their advice I'd welcome it.
She was born a year before I went away. Like a complete dick, I made it clear I wanted nothing to do with her, or her mother. I saw her three times that year, and on the last time, her mother said I was right - she didn't want me in her life either.
I tried not to think about her while I was away. When I did, even my thoughts about her were bad. I imagined how great it would be if her and her mom died in a car crash or something and how I'd get out to attend their funeral, and how I'd get sympathy packages from people. Selfish, jerk thoughts that you can only have when everything good that was ever in your life is slipping away from you.
She can walk now, I imagine she can talk a little bit, but probably not so much she asks where her Dad is. I wonder what she's been told about me. I'm not even sure where they are, although my Mom knows, but won't tell me. If they're out of the state I can't see them, and even if they're in the State, and I visited, and if it didn't go well my ex could just pick up the phone and I'd be back inside.
She's probably going to grow up without me, I'm accutely aware of that. But should she know who I am and why I couldn't be there for the first years of her life? Would it be better to pretend I didn't exist at all? Because I can't help but feel growing up knowing your Dad is an ex-con somehow defines you. I know it did for a lot of the guys I did time with.
Anyway, that's it for me today. Thanks for reading.
OP here: Checked back a few times during the week, kind of thought the thread was dead, but if some of you wanted an update I'll give it.
Turns out you don't get one parole officer who manages you exclusively, for whatever reason, workload, lack of staff, you get whoever is free on the day of your mandated appointment. So my first parole officer, who was chilled out and seemed happy enough with my circumstances has been replaced by some old, ex-corrections asshole who's still sore he's not fit enough to kick convicts around inside all day and fucks around parolees instead.
He's intent on breaching me for still not finding a job - but on Monday he ordered me to go to 3 Narco Anon meetings a week and imposed a curfew because I 'looked like I'd been out on the weekend drinking' even though I don't have an alcohol restriction on my parole contract and I haven't touched drugs since getting out and was willing to take a test to prove it. On top of that, I still don't have a new driver's licence because he hasn't sent some form back to the State Secretary's Office. So I have to travel an hour on a bus on Monday to get to one Parole Officer who tells me he's going to send me back inside if I don't get my shit together, two hours on a bus each way to my nearest NA meeting, on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays and then back to another Parole Officer on Friday who says ignore whatever the other asshole says. It's infuriating to have your freedom in the hands of complete, incompetent fucks and to have no way out of it. That leaves me with a few hours a day to look for work, apart from weekends, when I have a curfew that limits how far I can travel.
I finally caught up with my old friends - turns out the reason they weren't at any of their old touch dickss is because, suprise suprise, no one has a fucking job. Most of my friends were copy writers or else worked in bars. Now almost every local magazine and paper has cut back on staff, they're all unemployed which means they're not going out which means bars are putting off staff as well. I kind of understand why no one came to visit now. These guys barely leave their houses they're so broke.
I had one interview that looks promising - as a window cleaner, but I'd have to move to Grand Rapids and I'm not sure of how I'd do that logistically with my parole.
I'm just glad that the merry-go-round of bullshit they have me on keeps me busy enough to not want to use. Ironically, going to the NA meetings makes me want to use more than anything. Listening to these people whine endlessly about how their habits have ruined their lives and how God is helping them recover... Drugs didn't ruin my life. They just got me high. In fact, had I have had an endless supply of high quality heroin, I would never have committed the crime I went inside for. I'd have been too busy crawling around the house and drooling into the carpet. You don't ruin your life on drugs. You ruin your life when you're not on drugs. You might ruin your life when you're trying to score for more - but that's your own, sober responsibility. Blaming anything on drugs is stupid. It's an abdication of personal responsibility. 'I ruined my baby's life on drugs' they keeping saying. I feel like jumping up and saying: Fuck you, no one ever got pregnant while high, no one can fuck on the nod, you got pregnant sober, probably whoring for more crack, and it should have been enough for you to stop using but you didn't. As for God, who seems intent on being namechecked every 30 seconds at every meeting, I really don't think he cares about anyone's drug use. If I was God, I'd have bigger concerns than a few crackheads and an ex-junky ex-con. So that's demoralising. Or demoralizing for the americo-centric spelling nazis.
The parole officer says I'm arrogant. And yeah, these NA meetings are making me arrogant. I fucked up my own life. With my own choices. That I acknowledged in a courtroom, that I signed confessions for. That I spent two years in hell making up for. That some guy in a bad suit and a sweat stained shirt in an office can send me back for another two for. I walked away from it with my sanity intact and no particular urge to keep using. I think that entitles me to a degree of arrogance when subjected to the literal dregs of humanity.
When you're inside, you know that no one is coming to help you. The Red Cross isn't going to knock on your door one day and bring you a gift basket. God himself isn't going to reach down and pluck you out of your punishment because you're pious, or because you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal lord, saviour, and catch-all excuse for stupid behaviour.
But these fucking NA losers believe that shit. They think they're entitled to some second chance because some hippy dickwad coos over them and 'how much progress' they're making each day, and how many fucking Bono wristpedophile groups they're wearing to show their glorious fucking sobriety. I can't respect them, so I can't listen to them. When it's my time to share I recite platitudes and 'drug free' rhetoric until it's time to stop. Then I mainline free coffee, sign my name and fuck off.
I walked out of the community hall and watched an armoured van pull up at the mall. I wandered inside and watched the guards carry these huge platters of cash in and start re-filling ATMs. And I started imagining how easy it would be. How the guard's fat fingers looked too big to slide into behind the trigger guards of the flash, nickel plated bitch pistols they had on their hips. How I'd park between their van and the front doors and have them covered before they realised what was happening - how I'd probably only need one other person with me, to cover the guy they probably had in the back with a shotgun - and how you could get one, maybe two hundred thousand out of them, on the Friday or Thursday before a holiday weekend. Enough to disappear with. How I could do it better than last time, how I wouldn't make stupid mistakes. Then a cop truck rolled past and I felt a wave of anxious panic wash over me, like they might know what I was thinking.
So I caught the bus home and waited up all night for morning. Because when I close my eyes I'm terrified I'm going to wake up back in my cell, listening to tuburculor coughs, faint weeping, sleep grunting, and the ever present deviated septum snoring of my cellmate. It's a stupid fear, but once it's dark, I get this creeping terror that maybe I'm still in solitary, having dumped a whole gram on my way in, and that this is all a fevered dream and when I wake up I'll still be inside.
Will keep checking in periodically. Will answer the few remaining questions as well.
some funny parts also (the baby fucker was funny as fuck) its refreshing to see prison from the perspective of someone who is educated and understands the scope of things on the inside.
Prison in America is a god damned nightmare, and that story is one of many horrible, horrible stories. Not to detract anything from the OP, but if you want to get ridiculously angry or depressed, there's a big thread about this stuff on Something Awful:
god I could not stop reading that. That man should write a book. The thing about the superbowl is pretty funny, but damn there alot of twisted shit in there.
Wow what a long read, I just spent a good hour at 5am getting lost in this. Need sleep but it was definitely worth it. It's nice to have a real look in to how the prison system works, and not teaching yourself via prisonbreak lolool
Wow.. read the whole thing as well, it's very sobering.. Definitely makes me not want to go to jail, and thinking about people being in that situation right now while I type this is just scary. I feel more thankful for my life and what I've been given, but I know that this feeling will go away in the morning. Very.. sad.
This shit is intense... almost wish I hadn't read it -_-
When I think about young kids that get sent to jail over really stupid laws, or drugs, or stupid judges, etc, it makes it all the more retarded and absurd having read this
Lol, none of these people would be able to survive foreign prisons. A friend told me about his experience in a Turkish prison and I can guarantee it is 100 times worse then this.
The part where the kid got his insides ripped out, the new CO got pounced on and the whole part on solitary confinement made me feel a bit sick. Very intense and eye opening.
One day he comes back for lock down, takes a hit and after a few minutes says - this isn't H, try it. And it turned out to be powdered MDMA, or Ecstacy. We both did it and ended up giving each other blow jobs. Afterward, things were pretty awkward until I said, you know fuck it, we're in prison, let's make a deal that if we can score for ecstacy again we'll get each other off.
Awesome read. He answered a lot of questions I'd always wondered about prison. I like his thoughts on how drugs never ruin peoples' lives, being sober does.
Wow just read straight through that... Very, very disturbing.
Don't know how I feel, or if I'm happy I read it. I think I've read similiar stories before, but ugh... It must be such a frustrating experience (aside from being an absolute hell in about twenty other ways).
Got sucked in what an amazing story. That dude should def write a book or some kind of chicken soup for the inmate/convicts soul. I didn't mean to spend the 30mins or so I did reading this but time flew. Thx to OP for posting this.
Caught me more than any book ever has. For the OP this might just be another ex-cons story, but I think that what most of us thinks is true; This story is simply amazing exactly because he has told it so truthfully and telling is as his own 100%. Thanks for expanding my view to the broader of perspective!
I must say, I was specifically caught at the part with the guy getting stabbed with a shaped down toothbrush and having his inmate pulled out. Horrificly amazing discription...
This guy is full of shit. He kind of betrays himself when he talks about drugs too. I'm 99% sure he did lots of them but it just sounds like he's making tons of this shit up just to make himself look interesting.
You know what they say about junkies, they're usually pretty talented at manipulating people.The kind of way he explains everything in an interesting fashion, almost proves to me that this guy really is a manipulator.
I've met people like that before, they ll deviate the reality of things they have experienced and amplify it to make themselves interesting but at some point you just get tired of all the shit they come up with.
I dunno what you guys find interesting about this junkie's story but it's a bit troubling to see just how many of you are buying into this shit.
Impressive read. I was an idea about prisons because documentaries but tell a 2 years story by is own words is just crazy and really deep. The criminals that thing they are strong "G´s" and "Thugs" should read this.
His life never gonna be the same. Live and Learn!
On July 17 2010 22 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 17 2010 22 end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 17 2010 22 end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 17 2010 22 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:18 Famehunter wrote: This guy is full of shit. He kind of betrays himself when he talks about drugs too. I'm 99% sure he did lots of them but it just sounds like he's making tons of this shit up just to make himself look interesting.
You know what they say about junkies, they're usually pretty talented at manipulating people.The kind of way he explains everything in an interesting fashion, almost proves to me that this guy really is a manipulator.
I've met people like that before, they ll deviate the reality of things they have experienced and amplify it to make themselves interesting but at some point you just get tired of all the shit they come up with.
I dunno what you guys find interesting about this junkie's story but it's a bit troubling to see just how many of you are buying into this shit.
Because you find interesting dont mean you fell pity for him. I dont care about him really. He do a crime with Armed Robbery he put other lifes in danger so he got his punishment.
Btw i dont know the USA prisons very well but i think you just spend 23 hours in lock down you did it something bad or disrespect the rules. Special if you are in a medium/maximal security prison.
All these comments here act like it´s so sad that he has been through all that. But in reality, he got what he deserved, probably even alot if everything what he says is true. Prison should be hard else there is no point in being in prison.
Alot of the people in there hurt other innocent people, including him. So how would it be fair to the victims if they would go to some kind of vacation resort.
That was incredibly eye-opening. You always hear about how much nice American prisons are, and how taxes are being wasted providing luxuries for convicts who don't deserve it, and how prisons in other countries are so much worse but... Wow, I really had no idea. This guy needs to write a book, I would read it.
On July 17 2010 22:31 scBane wrote: All these comments here act like it´s so sad that he has been through all that. But in reality, he got what he deserved, probably even alot if everything what he says is true. Prison should be hard else there is no point in being in prison.
Alot of the people in there hurt other innocent people, including him. So how would it be fair to the victims if they would go to some kind of vacation resort.
Prison isn't about retaliation because retaliation serves no purpose. Prison is about keeping citizens safe by minimizing future crime.
Just spent a lot of time reading this, even reading some parts twice, to really understand what this man is saying, I don't know what to really say about this, other than it's an excellent thread, and should definately be read by more =) If there's a book I'll buy it
On July 17 2010 22:18 Famehunter wrote: This guy is full of shit. He kind of betrays himself when he talks about drugs too. I'm 99% sure he did lots of them but it just sounds like he's making tons of this shit up just to make himself look interesting.
You know what they say about junkies, they're usually pretty talented at manipulating people.The kind of way he explains everything in an interesting fashion, almost proves to me that this guy really is a manipulator.
I've met people like that before, they ll deviate the reality of things they have experienced and amplify it to make themselves interesting but at some point you just get tired of all the shit they come up with.
I dunno what you guys find interesting about this junkie's story but it's a bit troubling to see just how many of you are buying into this shit.
Maybe read the entire story? Fucktards like you piss me off. He never claimed he didn't do drugs, just that he didn't do drugs with his friend, because he was an ex-meth user. + Show Spoiler [if you had really read the OP] +
6. The Drugs
After a while, drugs become a viable option inside. There is a lot on offer. If you can get it out in the world, you can get it inside - for a better price strangely enough, considering the difficulty of getting it in. That is if it is what your man says it is. I decided to get onto horse after a few months, mostly as something to do. I'd tried heroin outside, but hadn't liked it since getting on the nod seemed like a waste of time. But inside, it's great - a shot in solitary can make a week pass in no time at all. Problem is the shit it will be cut with. Flour, baking soda, jell-o crystals - all shit that should not be in a vein. After a while, you just end up doing things that outside, you never would have dreamed of. I was paranoid about getting the AIDS, so I kept this one needle the whole time I was inside. Went rusty and I ended up spending a month in sick bay with tetenus. When I couldn't score for junk, I scored for codeine tablets. Grew my thumb nail long and wrecked it on the concrete so it was sharp enough to cut open my thigh, and would stick the crushed up tablet inside.
Also "MET" people like that? All you did was read a storyskim a paragraph from him
The kind of way he explains everything in an interesting fashion, almost proves to me that this guy really is a manipulator.
Interesting read. I did raise an eyebrow on the part where the taser made smoke rise from the hole in the belly. Not saying its all BS but.. you never know right? ^^
On July 18 2010 00:01 Robinsa wrote: Interesting read. I did raise an eyebrow on the part where the taser made smoke rise from the hole in the belly. Not saying its all BS but.. you never know right? ^^
its so packed of details! if this isn't true then the writer must have some serious badass writing and imagination skills ^_^ amazing read.
On July 17 2010 23:17 HeavOnEarth wrote: Maybe read the entire story? Fucktards like you piss me off. He never claimed he didn't do drugs, just that he didn't do drugs with his friend, because he was an ex-meth user.
Take a chill pill ?
You're in such a state of empathy for this guy that you get angered over anything pejorative towards your new "mate". See this is what manipulation does, it gives you sympathy for the guy and his "story".
You know, maybe you 2 should meet each other and perhaps have a nice little dinner around the candle. You tell us how it went after that would you?
oh jeez...i've always had the impression that prison wouldn't be this bad. I guess that all those jokes that people make about "prison > work" really overlook a lot of things that happen in prison =\
On July 18 2010 00:32 blahman3344 wrote: oh jeez...i've always had the impression that prison wouldn't be this bad. I guess that all those jokes that people make about "prison > work" really overlook a lot of things that happen in prison =\
There's a shitload of different levels of prison, and you don't know how much of the post is true. I've talked to some poor people who've been to (I assume minimum security) prison and they liked it because they got food, a place to sleep, etc.
On July 18 2010 00:23 Famehunter wrote: Take a chill pill ?
You're in such a state of empathy for this guy that you get angered over anything pejorative towards your new "mate". See this is what manipulation does, it gives you sympathy for the guy and his "story".
You know, maybe you 2 should meet each other and perhaps have a nice little dinner around the candle. You tell us how it went after that would you?
The thing about it is that while this guy and many other cons may deserve the hell he was put through (it's debatable - obviously he deserves some kind of punishment but he didn't actually hurt (physically) or kill anyone), the fact is that a lot of people serve time for completely nonviolent offenses. Like he was saying, a lot of the people were in there for drug crimes. Drug laws in this country are fucked the fucked up and I really feel sorry for the people who end up in these prisons due to non-violent drug-related offenses.
On July 17 2010 22:18 Famehunter wrote: This guy is full of shit. He kind of betrays himself when he talks about drugs too. I'm 99% sure he did lots of them but it just sounds like he's making tons of this shit up just to make himself look interesting.
You know what they say about junkies, they're usually pretty talented at manipulating people.The kind of way he explains everything in an interesting fashion, almost proves to me that this guy really is a manipulator.
I've met people like that before, they ll deviate the reality of things they have experienced and amplify it to make themselves interesting but at some point you just get tired of all the shit they come up with.
I dunno what you guys find interesting about this junkie's story but it's a bit troubling to see just how many of you are buying into this shit.
Maybe read the entire story? Fucktards like you piss me off. He never claimed he didn't do drugs, just that he didn't do drugs with his friend, because he was an ex-meth user. + Show Spoiler [if you had really read the OP] +
6. The Drugs
After a while, drugs become a viable option inside. There is a lot on offer. If you can get it out in the world, you can get it inside - for a better price strangely enough, considering the difficulty of getting it in. That is if it is what your man says it is. I decided to get onto horse after a few months, mostly as something to do. I'd tried heroin outside, but hadn't liked it since getting on the nod seemed like a waste of time. But inside, it's great - a shot in solitary can make a week pass in no time at all. Problem is the shit it will be cut with. Flour, baking soda, jell-o crystals - all shit that should not be in a vein. After a while, you just end up doing things that outside, you never would have dreamed of. I was paranoid about getting the AIDS, so I kept this one needle the whole time I was inside. Went rusty and I ended up spending a month in sick bay with tetenus. When I couldn't score for junk, I scored for codeine tablets. Grew my thumb nail long and wrecked it on the concrete so it was sharp enough to cut open my thigh, and would stick the crushed up tablet inside.
Also "MET" people like that? All you did was read a storyskim a paragraph from him
The kind of way he explains everything in an interesting fashion, almost proves to me that this guy really is a manipulator.
just gonna quote this for the lulz
You're the type of people who easily want to be against things to seem to be as if you were to be the "rebel" or the "outlaw" of things so you would be merited to some "different" kind of respect because of your different opinion. Obviously because of the proof that HeavOnEarth has shown to us that you've been bullshitting on the thread.
On July 17 2010 22:31 scBane wrote: All these comments here act like it´s so sad that he has been through all that. But in reality, he got what he deserved, probably even alot if everything what he says is true. Prison should be hard else there is no point in being in prison.
Alot of the people in there hurt other innocent people, including him. So how would it be fair to the victims if they would go to some kind of vacation resort.
We aren't sad for him, we're impacted so greatly because we've been struck with the hand of reality that we have never been exposed to. This OP has been great on explaining the life of prison that hits a lot of moral standgrounds and really shakes you up in so many ways.
Reading this OP just really gives me another boost of appreciation in the value of life, how it can be so easily impacting and fucking you up in every sort of way. It gave me hope to see how he made it out of the prison, even with this type of writing style. Wow i'm just in such awe of how this life can be lived through in the eyes of that man. Think about this fellows, the life that you have been living in your life has probably been Teamliquid, Starcraft, Porn, Eat, and repeat, (especially in the summertime, or maybe even some work if you're in a job or part-time). It really gets me going to think if I was to lose such an easy style of life....
This quote in particular really hit me because it shows that people really keep this sense of identity from the beginning of their consciousness to the end of their lives..
I was at a bus stop this morning and I struck up a conversation with someone, about how the bus was late, what she was listening to on her iPod, just random shit. And as we got on the bus I realised - that was me, that was me from before going inside talking, I'm still that person. I was really proud for having wrapped that part of me up so tightly during my time that I kept it safe.
What I got out of this thread is that I should be more recognizing and not so numb to the gifts and lives of society today.. even if we're going through tough times, theres always somebody who gets it worse than us. Good luck prisoner.
Btw, this is maximum security prison, if I read correctly, of course it's gonna be a shithole when all the dregs of society get sent there. Also for those who had their eyes opened, go check out the prisoner's experiment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment, it really shows how fucked up humans are in general.
Yeah great read. I have to wonder whether the prison system is incorrect. The ends do justify the means. In this case, a person is sent to solitary, people are exposed to drugs, and they lose their families, a few even die. On the other hand the prison accomplishes its goal of making these people capable of living in society without harming others anymore
On July 18 2010 01:33 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: Yeah great read. I have to wonder whether the prison system is incorrect. The ends do justify the means. In this case, a person is sent to solitary, people are exposed to drugs, and they lose their families, a few even die. On the other hand the prison accomplishes its goal of making these people capable of living in society without harming others anymore
I don't really agree with that. A lot of inmates just continue in their life of crime because its all they know. We need more rehabilitation and education for criminals in prison, not drug users. Drug users shouldn't be in prison at all.
Finished the whole thing. Very powerful, particularly since it doesn't seem like he's asking for sympathy or anything, just telling it like it was for those of us on the outside, and I really appreciated the life I've been able to lead even more.
I saw a WALLLL of text but since it had an interesting topic, I decided to just read the first few paragraphs... and hoooly shit, this is fucking amazing.
On July 18 2010 02:18 Disregard wrote: This sounds more like a maximum security prison, I'd wonder how a supermax is like... would be a lot worse than rape and a mental asylum.
Well he said it was a level 5 and that they go up to 5, so I'd imagine that is the case.
On July 18 2010 01:33 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: Yeah great read. I have to wonder whether the prison system is incorrect. The ends do justify the means. In this case, a person is sent to solitary, people are exposed to drugs, and they lose their families, a few even die. On the other hand the prison accomplishes its goal of making these people capable of living in society without harming others anymore
I don't really agree with that. A lot of inmates just continue in their life of crime because its all they know. We need more rehabilitation and education for criminals in prison, not drug users. Drug users shouldn't be in prison at all.
You're right, many are not rehabilitated, however this specific person says he never wants to go back to prison and will think twice about doing another crime, so it does work on some people. In addition anyone who has read "Catch Me If You Can" knows that it was the french prison system that eventually reformed the protagonist. I also have to clarify that by saying the ends justify the means, I mean that the ends include everything that happened, including the psychological torment on the prisoner.
Overall I agree with what you are saying. If the government spent more money trying to educate and help their criminals, then perhaps more would find a good job, kick their drug habits and become contributing members of society. In addition, fewer criminals would go back to prison meaning that less money would have to be sunk into the prison system overall.
This was a great read, thanks for sharing it. I can't imagine how can someone even pass through this shit without drugs. I never really thought about how bad it could smell in prison...now i get it. Gotta be fucking gross shit
This has got to be the most informative thing I have ever read on the internet. It was amazing in a fucked up, never want to experience it way. Thank you so much for sharing.
Thanks for OP for bringing this up here from 99chan. obviously, thanks a lot for the true OP. Don't think he'll hear us here, but he should elaborate it and write a book with this. This kind of book is helpful for a lot of people, and can give him some good cash in return. It might also clear his name for society, so he becomes able to get jobs easier later on.
"So I caught the bus home and waited up all night for morning. Because when I close my eyes I'm terrified I'm going to wake up back in my cell, listening to tuburculor coughs, faint weeping, sleep grunting, and the ever present deviated septum snoring of my cellmate. It's a stupid fear, but once it's dark, I get this creeping terror that maybe I'm still in solitary, having dumped a whole gram on my way in, and that this is all a fevered dream and when I wake up I'll still be inside."
Wow, he describes stuff that I only thought existed in the movies. I felt sad when I read what he had endured.
The prisons with the highest security in Sweden looks like hotels in comparison to what he described.
Picture taken from a prison cell in the Swedish prison with the highest security rank. This is where we place our murderers.
In Sweden each intern has their own room with nice furniture, a toilet, a TV and a radio as well as as a window to the outside. In many prisons the interns are free to bring their own gaming consoles or computer (without internet connection). The interns may choose to either work or study (free studies of course) during the days. When they are free in the afternoon or on the weekends then they can choose to enjoy any of the activities that the prison offers. Such activities includes: visiting the library, praying at the different religious rooms, training in the health centre and doing sports such as football, tennis and miniature golf. I have heard that the food is pretty good too.
It's much less violence in our prisons aswell. I can't remember the last time I heard about someone getting killed in a Swedish prison.
On July 18 2010 05:45 Batch wrote: Wow, he describes stuff that I only thought existed in the movies. I felt sad when I read what he had endured.
The prisons with the highest security in Sweden looks like hotels in comparison to what he described.
Picture taken from a prison cell in the Swedish prison with the highest security rank. This is where we place our murderers.
In Sweden each intern has their own room with nice furniture, a toilet, a TV and a radio as well as as a window to the outside. In many prisons the interns are free to bring their own gaming consoles or computer (without internet connection). The interns may choose to either work or study (free studies of course) during the days. When they are free in the afternoon or on the weekends then they can choose to enjoy any of the activities that the prison offers. Such activities includes: visiting the library, praying at the different religious rooms, training in the health centre and doing sports such as football, tennis and miniature golf. I have heard that the food is pretty good too.
It's much less violence in our prisons aswell. I can't remember the last time I heard about someone getting killed in a Swedish prison.
you almost describe that like it's a good thing
Murderers shouldn't be pampered. Perhaps some sort of in between would be good. Problem in America (as I understand) is the prisons are filled with drug offenders which is dumb so it makes them overpopulated. Just legalize all drugs no problem! Or at least marijuana.
On July 18 2010 01:33 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: Yeah great read. I have to wonder whether the prison system is incorrect. The ends do justify the means. In this case, a person is sent to solitary, people are exposed to drugs, and they lose their families, a few even die. On the other hand the prison accomplishes its goal of making these people capable of living in society without harming others anymore
Seems hardly the case to be honest.
Prison is an awful place and I can only laugh at people that try to be all hardass saying that they would LOVE going back to prison...anyone who says that has never actually been to prison.
I also hate that people get sent to prison for freaking drug charges. That place is not for someone that deals drugs...
On July 18 2010 05:45 Batch wrote: Wow, he describes stuff that I only thought existed in the movies. I felt sad when I read what he had endured.
The prisons with the highest security in Sweden looks like hotels in comparison to what he described.
Picture taken from a prison cell in the Swedish prison with the highest security rank. This is where we place our murderers.
In Sweden each intern has their own room with nice furniture, a toilet, a TV and a radio as well as as a window to the outside. In many prisons the interns are free to bring their own gaming consoles or computer (without internet connection). The interns may choose to either work or study (free studies of course) during the days. When they are free in the afternoon or on the weekends then they can choose to enjoy any of the activities that the prison offers. Such activities includes: visiting the library, praying at the different religious rooms, training in the health centre and doing sports such as football, tennis and miniature golf. I have heard that the food is pretty good too.
It's much less violence in our prisons aswell. I can't remember the last time I heard about someone getting killed in a Swedish prison.
you almost describe that like it's a good thing
Murderers shouldn't be pampered. Perhaps some sort of in between would be good. Problem in America (as I understand) is the prisons are filled with drug offenders which is dumb so it makes them overpopulated. Just legalize all drugs no problem! Or at least marijuana.
Well i read it as a good thing. The corrections department is about punishment and rehabilitation. That prison just seemed like designed just for punishment. I don't know how many committed suicide, but I hear it's a big problem. If you click on the something awful link you'll find that prisons like this are designed to 'break' people. What he went through seems like an execution for the mind.
That was really interesting, took me forever to figure out "band" was wordfiltered to "pedophile group" on that board, lol. Also, "hangout" is "touch dicks", wtf?
On July 18 2010 05:45 Batch wrote: Wow, he describes stuff that I only thought existed in the movies. I felt sad when I read what he had endured.
The prisons with the highest security in Sweden looks like hotels in comparison to what he described.
Picture taken from a prison cell in the Swedish prison with the highest security rank. This is where we place our murderers.
In Sweden each intern has their own room with nice furniture, a toilet, a TV and a radio as well as as a window to the outside. In many prisons the interns are free to bring their own gaming consoles or computer (without internet connection). The interns may choose to either work or study (free studies of course) during the days. When they are free in the afternoon or on the weekends then they can choose to enjoy any of the activities that the prison offers. Such activities includes: visiting the library, praying at the different religious rooms, training in the health centre and doing sports such as football, tennis and miniature golf. I have heard that the food is pretty good too.
It's much less violence in our prisons aswell. I can't remember the last time I heard about someone getting killed in a Swedish prison.
you almost describe that like it's a good thing
Murderers shouldn't be pampered. Perhaps some sort of in between would be good. Problem in America (as I understand) is the prisons are filled with drug offenders which is dumb so it makes them overpopulated. Just legalize all drugs no problem! Or at least marijuana.
Yeah, I think the best solution would be something in between. The prison time must feel like a punishment but also act to change the interns criminal behaviour to help them be good citizens when they have done their time. I
I think penal labour should be used more. Instead of letting the criminals sit a set period of time, give them a sum on what they owe the society and let them be in prison untill they have earned that sum by working inside the prison. Good and hard working interns will be able to get out earlier this way and bad behaving interns might get their owing sum raised which makes their stay longer. This way the criminals will pay back what they have costed the society.
On July 18 2010 05:45 Batch wrote: Wow, he describes stuff that I only thought existed in the movies. I felt sad when I read what he had endured.
The prisons with the highest security in Sweden looks like hotels in comparison to what he described.
Picture taken from a prison cell in the Swedish prison with the highest security rank. This is where we place our murderers.
In Sweden each intern has their own room with nice furniture, a toilet, a TV and a radio as well as as a window to the outside. In many prisons the interns are free to bring their own gaming consoles or computer (without internet connection). The interns may choose to either work or study (free studies of course) during the days. When they are free in the afternoon or on the weekends then they can choose to enjoy any of the activities that the prison offers. Such activities includes: visiting the library, praying at the different religious rooms, training in the health centre and doing sports such as football, tennis and miniature golf. I have heard that the food is pretty good too.
It's much less violence in our prisons aswell. I can't remember the last time I heard about someone getting killed in a Swedish prison.
you almost describe that like it's a good thing
Murderers shouldn't be pampered. Perhaps some sort of in between would be good. Problem in America (as I understand) is the prisons are filled with drug offenders which is dumb so it makes them overpopulated. Just legalize all drugs no problem! Or at least marijuana.
Yeah, I think the best solution would be something in between. The prison time must feel like a punishment but also act to change the interns criminal behaviour to help them be good citizens when they have done their time. I
I think penal labour should be used more. Instead of letting the criminals sit a set period of time, give them a sum on what they owe the society and let them be in prison untill they have earned that sum by working inside the prison. Good and hard working interns will be able to get out earlier this way and bad behaving interns might get their owing sum raised which makes their stay longer. This way the criminals will pay back what they have costed the society.
Wishful thinking.
People that go to jail have a pretty impossible task when it comes to landing a job that isn't completely dead end. Nothing turns off an employer more than a prison stay.
How exactly is someone supposed to reform when all their options are closed? Some people are straight sociopaths and those are the ones that end up in jail within a few months again anyway...but good luck finding another job of any worth after getting out of prison without basically fleeing the country and gaining a new identity.
Is this fair penance for killing someone? Sure.
Is it fair penance for having a syringe full of heroine? Absolutely not.
If you're interested in prison life or prison drama, should watch the recent move called A Prophet. It's pretty good. Had good reviews, but I've seen much better movies (maybe I'm a bit picky).
Maybe just go to a third world country, get a new identity, then move to Europe or something. I'm sure you can continue living if you make the effort...
Just a question, he commited armed robbery, probably mentally traumatized those he robbed, why should I feel any pity for him? imho he even got off too lightly... I'm fine with these sort of people ending in dead-end jobs - they aren't worth any better.
Wow this is an amazing my post. My dad says his job as a public defender depresses him and he feels like just a misery-broker. I didn't really understand why until this post, I really hope this guy isn't blowing smoke up everyones ass and I nothing he wrote sounds like bullshit to me.
On July 18 2010 05:45 Batch wrote: Wow, he describes stuff that I only thought existed in the movies. I felt sad when I read what he had endured.
The prisons with the highest security in Sweden looks like hotels in comparison to what he described.
Picture taken from a prison cell in the Swedish prison with the highest security rank. This is where we place our murderers.
In Sweden each intern has their own room with nice furniture, a toilet, a TV and a radio as well as as a window to the outside. In many prisons the interns are free to bring their own gaming consoles or computer (without internet connection). The interns may choose to either work or study (free studies of course) during the days. When they are free in the afternoon or on the weekends then they can choose to enjoy any of the activities that the prison offers. Such activities includes: visiting the library, praying at the different religious rooms, training in the health centre and doing sports such as football, tennis and miniature golf. I have heard that the food is pretty good too.
It's much less violence in our prisons aswell. I can't remember the last time I heard about someone getting killed in a Swedish prison.
you almost describe that like it's a good thing
Murderers shouldn't be pampered. Perhaps some sort of in between would be good. Problem in America (as I understand) is the prisons are filled with drug offenders which is dumb so it makes them overpopulated. Just legalize all drugs no problem! Or at least marijuana.
Yeah, I think the best solution would be something in between. The prison time must feel like a punishment but also act to change the interns criminal behaviour to help them be good citizens when they have done their time. I
I think penal labour should be used more. Instead of letting the criminals sit a set period of time, give them a sum on what they owe the society and let them be in prison untill they have earned that sum by working inside the prison. Good and hard working interns will be able to get out earlier this way and bad behaving interns might get their owing sum raised which makes their stay longer. This way the criminals will pay back what they have costed the society.
Wishful thinking.
People that go to jail have a pretty impossible task when it comes to landing a job that isn't completely dead end. Nothing turns off an employer more than a prison stay.
How exactly is someone supposed to reform when all their options are closed? Some people are straight sociopaths and those are the ones that end up in jail within a few months again anyway...but good luck finding another job of any worth after getting out of prison without basically fleeing the country and gaining a new identity.
Is this fair penance for killing someone? Sure.
Is it fair penance for having a syringe full of heroine? Absolutely not.
I don't know how it is in the US but in Sweden there isn't any way for the public to search if anyone has commited any crimes. Employers need special permissions to be able to get information if someone has been convicted for any crime and only companies dealing with a lot of money or security gets these permissions. So interns are able to start a new life after they have done their time which is very important to keep down the number of relapsed criminals.
On July 18 2010 08:20 Ghostcom wrote: Just a question, he commited armed robbery, probably mentally traumatized those he robbed, why should I feel any pity for him? imho he even got off too lightly... I'm fine with these sort of people ending in dead-end jobs - they aren't worth any better.
This is how traumatized you will be after having a gun aimed at you: |>----<|
This is how traumatized you will be after being "forced" into drugs, getting raped, getting beaten, getting shielded from the outside world, seen interns cut each other open and ripping the guts out. |>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<|
On July 18 2010 08:20 Ghostcom wrote: Just a question, he commited armed robbery, probably mentally traumatized those he robbed, why should I feel any pity for him? imho he even got off too lightly... I'm fine with these sort of people ending in dead-end jobs - they aren't worth any better.
This is how traumatized you will be after having a gun aimed at you: |>----<|
This is how traumatized you will be after being "forced" into drugs, getting raped, getting beaten, getting shielded from the outside world, seen interns cut each other open and ripping the guts out. |>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<|
Yeah, he got off too lightly...
I happen to work on an open psychiatric ward and have actually met people for whom being robbed with a gun has happend. They have trouble leaving their homes, they can't keep up their job and they have to take medications just to get some sleep which is still a terrible sleep. And the worst part about it is that they couldn't in any way have avoided the situation. If you think he got off lightly you should visit a psychiatric hospital sometime...
Read all of the OP, the links on the first page, and watched the first 50 minute prison video linked on Something Awful. Spent like 3 hours reading about this stuff. It is really mind blowing and has totally changed the way I see the prison system and even justice system in general.
I am looking forward to this documentary coming out. Apparently a prisoner snuck a camera into a prison for 6 months and filmed some of the experiences. Looks like it might be interesting. And usually everything HBO does is great.
On July 18 2010 08:20 Ghostcom wrote: Just a question, he commited armed robbery, probably mentally traumatized those he robbed, why should I feel any pity for him? imho he even got off too lightly... I'm fine with these sort of people ending in dead-end jobs - they aren't worth any better.
This is how traumatized you will be after having a gun aimed at you: |>----<|
This is how traumatized you will be after being "forced" into drugs, getting raped, getting beaten, getting shielded from the outside world, seen interns cut each other open and ripping the guts out. |>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<|
Yeah, he got off too lightly...
I happen to work on an open psychiatric ward and have actually met people for whom being robbed with a gun has happend. They have trouble leaving their homes, they can't keep up their job and they have to take medications just to get some sleep which is still a terrible sleep. And the worst part about it is that they couldn't in any way have avoided the situation. If you think he got off lightly you should visit a psychiatric hospital sometime...
He got off light...
It's this kind of reasoning that really gets me. This self perpetuating 'but they were worse..' kind of mentality. + Show Spoiler +
If you subscribe to that kind of thought, then why not throw all human rights out the window? It's thinking like that which is responsible for all kinds of nasty shit: the patriot act and torture and humiliation in the prison system. Also responsible for 'democratic governments' slaughtering the villages of so called 'rebel tribes' in Africa.
Was it right that he pulled a gun on someone? No. Most definitely not. Is it right to then put someone through something like that, with no intent on rehabilitation? No. Most definitely not.
To quote my mum: "Two wrongs don't make a right."
In any case, it was still an amazing story; and he should totally publish a book!
this thread, which was eye-opening enough to interest me in reading about prisons in general in the form of personal accounts, has led me to believe that modern prisons, even the one this guy was in, are among the sickest inventions i've ever been made aware of. the most terrible thing is that there are prisons so much worse it is like comparing an innocent child to a serial rapist and murderer. i don't think i've ever been so embarassed and disgusted by humanity and i have read some highly disturbing shit over the years, between 4chan and all the other stuff you can find on the internet.
it is disturbing on a level of nazi germany concentration camps, i can only call the concentration camps worse because of the sheer quantity of people who went through them and because of the creativity of torture, if you could even call it that, in the camps. in nearly all other things i could consider, they are equal. i will NOT budge or claim exaggeration on this, it is completely comparable. if anything it is worse because almost everyone goes on living their life while these things happen with no action to stop it! at least with nazi germany, people actively recognized the cruelty and the insanity of those in charge of it, and banded together to eventually bring it to an end. all these prison stories are treated just as that, stories. nobody sees it as people in need of help, and it's most likely just because it happens in prison, where all the bad people are supposed to be in the first place.
prisons are meant to rehabilitate criminals, but they've become an industry and now do the complete opposite. they do all they can to get people into prisons and keep them there with no concern for law and often times in complete violation of it, on top of all the people who deserve to be there, so you get these cold-hearted people mixing with these people who are absolutely nothing like them but are molded over time to be. to say that prisons nowadays rehabilitate anyone is to confuse giving someone a positive outlook on their future and proper punishment for their actions with mentally scarring them so greatly that they refuse to return to the source of their pain. and those are just the people who get out and don't want to go back. even before i read all that i did, i was aware that a portion of those who stay too long in prisons cannot function in society properly
after reading all of the shit i did at http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3233450 and clicking only a handful of the many links that are there, and then thinking back on this story, i'm not confident that anyone short of violent crimes (including the person the OP is about) or otherwise crimes that directly endanger the lives of those around the person should be put in prison because anything good that could come out of it comes at a very high price that is not likely going to pay off unless you're literally saving lives by putting that person in prison. prisons seem to be nothing short of a breeding ground for every kind of inhumane act you can imagine.
if you have any sort of moral awareness, you have to admit that these people are treated like they are barely living creatures, much less animals or sub-human, and that nobody deserves to live through the punishment that so many of these people go through purely for the amusement of those who can order them around, regardless of their crime. the people that allow and encourage these things deserve to be executed. they are all poor excuses for intelligent life and to allow them to live longer is more dangerous than capturing any criminal because they perpetuate this system and fight for it to continue, and it effects our society greatly.
On July 18 2010 08:20 Ghostcom wrote: Just a question, he commited armed robbery, probably mentally traumatized those he robbed, why should I feel any pity for him? imho he even got off too lightly... I'm fine with these sort of people ending in dead-end jobs - they aren't worth any better.
This is how traumatized you will be after having a gun aimed at you: |>----<|
This is how traumatized you will be after being "forced" into drugs, getting raped, getting beaten, getting shielded from the outside world, seen interns cut each other open and ripping the guts out. |>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<|
Yeah, he got off too lightly...
I happen to work on an open psychiatric ward and have actually met people for whom being robbed with a gun has happend. They have trouble leaving their homes, they can't keep up their job and they have to take medications just to get some sleep which is still a terrible sleep. And the worst part about it is that they couldn't in any way have avoided the situation. If you think he got off lightly you should visit a psychiatric hospital sometime...
He got off light...
It's this kind of reasoning that really gets me. This self perpetuating 'but they were worse..' kind of mentality. + Show Spoiler +
If you subscribe to that kind of thought, then why not throw all human rights out the window? It's thinking like that which responsible for all kinds of nasty shit: the patriot act and torture and humiliation in the prison system. Also responsible for 'democratic governments' slaughtering the villages of so called 'rebel tribes' in Africa.
Was it right that he pulled a gun on someone? No. Most definitely not. Is it right to then put someone through something like that, with no intent on rehabilitation? No. Most definitely not.
To quote my mum: "Two wrongs don't make a right."
In any case, it was still an amazing story; and he should totally publish a book!
I think a big part of why we disagree (because, come on - I never said anything about throwing away all human rights) is that I believe if a punishment is hard enough, the crime won't be done whilst you (apperantly) believe in rehabilitating people, trying to prevent the crime from happening AGAIN. Whilst rehabilitation is on paper a good thing, it has a couple of downside, one being it's low succesrate (wheter it be the system as it seems you believe or due to the nature of people turning criminals in the first place is another discussion) another being that it doesn't stop the first crime.
That was my reason for saying he got off too lightly.
Wheter or not the US prison system is fine is somewhat out of my league to comment on - though one has to remember that most of what he described was done by OTHER inmates which can be pretty hard for the prisonguards to stop.
And anyone who would buy a book from such a guy should honestly be ashamed of themselves. If he got rich off writing such a book, he basicly got rewarded for his crime...
I think the problem with prison right now and its system is how inmates are treated. It's nice they're allowed to interact and have conveniences but I think cells should only house one inmate instead of two because that just ends up in rape and stabbings. These guys are forced to commit crimes inside of prison if they don't want to be targeted themselves, and it makes it worst including their sentences being lengthened considerably. Nothing is done to protect them while they're serving time.
I think prisoners should have the option to be locked in a one prisoner per cell basis and have necessities delivered to them. So those that are weak don't have to worry about becoming a target.
On July 18 2010 08:20 Ghostcom wrote: Just a question, he commited armed robbery, probably mentally traumatized those he robbed, why should I feel any pity for him? imho he even got off too lightly... I'm fine with these sort of people ending in dead-end jobs - they aren't worth any better.
This is how traumatized you will be after having a gun aimed at you: |>----<|
This is how traumatized you will be after being "forced" into drugs, getting raped, getting beaten, getting shielded from the outside world, seen interns cut each other open and ripping the guts out. |>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<|
Yeah, he got off too lightly...
I happen to work on an open psychiatric ward and have actually met people for whom being robbed with a gun has happend. They have trouble leaving their homes, they can't keep up their job and they have to take medications just to get some sleep which is still a terrible sleep. And the worst part about it is that they couldn't in any way have avoided the situation. If you think he got off lightly you should visit a psychiatric hospital sometime...
He got off light...
It's this kind of reasoning that really gets me. This self perpetuating 'but they were worse..' kind of mentality. + Show Spoiler +
If you subscribe to that kind of thought, then why not throw all human rights out the window? It's thinking like that which responsible for all kinds of nasty shit: the patriot act and torture and humiliation in the prison system. Also responsible for 'democratic governments' slaughtering the villages of so called 'rebel tribes' in Africa.
Was it right that he pulled a gun on someone? No. Most definitely not. Is it right to then put someone through something like that, with no intent on rehabilitation? No. Most definitely not.
To quote my mum: "Two wrongs don't make a right."
In any case, it was still an amazing story; and he should totally publish a book!
I think a big part of why we disagree (because, come on - I never said anything about throwing away all human rights) is that I believe if a punishment is hard enough, the crime won't be done whilst you (apperantly) believe in rehabilitating people, trying to prevent the crime from happening AGAIN. Whilst rehabilitation is on paper a good thing, it has a couple of downside, one being it's low succesrate (wheter it be the system as it seems you believe or due to the nature of people turning criminals in the first place is another discussion) another being that it doesn't stop the first crime.
That was my reason for saying he got off too lightly.
Wheter or not the US prison system is fine is somewhat out of my league to comment on - though one has to remember that most of what he described was done by OTHER inmates which can be pretty hard for the prisonguards to stop.
And anyone who would buy a book from such a guy should honestly be ashamed of themselves. If he got rich off writing such a book, he basicly got rewarded for his crime...
Oh please.
Your high and mighty bull is fringing on the line between hilarious and irritating.
If he got rich off of writing such a book he got rewarded because he writes well. The fact that he committed a crime to gain such an experience is pretty much immaterial. Plenty of people experience absolutely traumatizing things but can't put them into words half well enough to be published.
If he can do so he should go for it. Whether you believe in rehabilitation or not is irrelevant because that's really what the US justice system is based off of. If it weren't people would be sent to prison for life for EVERY murder.
If he attempts to make something of himself after committing such a crime it's a GOOD THING. Being condemned for life for a single action done in the heat of the moment is laughable. Yes armed robbery is a horrible thing but I do believe he paid for it in spades.
You claim to work in an open psyche ward and yet you think him getting his mind all but raped is getting off light? On top of this you think I should be ASHAMED of myself for buying a book written by this guy if it was written by him.
Who do you think you are anyway? The entire tone of your post is grating.
I think I am me, presenting my opinion on an internet forum. I posted my honest opinion which apperantly differed from yours, which should be fine and we should be able to discuss it maturely. Apperantly that isn't the case...
On July 18 2010 10:33 Ghostcom wrote: I think I am me, presenting my opinion on an internet forum. I posted my honest opinion which apperantly differed from yours, which should be fine and we should be able to discuss it maturely. Apperantly that isn't the case...
It was, until you said this
And anyone who would buy a book from such a guy should honestly be ashamed of themselves.
Changed pretty much the ENTIRE tone of your post. Stating an opinion is fine, but telling someone what they should think because their opinion differs from you is not cool.
The amount of sympathy this guy is getting is making me sick. He performed an armed robbery.
That's like, with a gun and stuff, where you try and take shit that you didn't earn from innocent people that aren't prepared for it and don't expect it. He did 2 years in prison, which is a rather short term. While there, he was fed, housed, and generally left do do whatever he wanted, unless someone in the prison did something stupid and the place got locked down.
At what point does rehabilitation end? What line must be drawn? There are people out there that do bad things, and deserved to be segregated from the rest of society. There are people who cannot function in the world without causing pain and hurt to others. I understand that this person's experiences were horrible, but it is literally impossible to make determinations on a case by case basis. It should give people more incentive to stay out of prison.
I returned from Iraq last year, and my father decided to take me to Las Vegas as a celebration/relaxation trip, since I had always wanted to go there. He was a police officer for 30 years, and recently retired from the Sheriff department that he had worked at all that time. Our first night, he got a bit drunk, and we started trading stories, me from the war, and him from his time in blue. One of the stories he told me seems to be a fitting example of why our prison system is necessary.
In the 1980's, there was a Latin American biker gang that operated out of the southern California area, through to Arizona. Being a cop in the Midwest at the time, this normally would not have anything to do with him, however, the gang ran cocaine from Mexico all the way through the pipeline in to Chicago and eventually through Detroit to Canada. This made it an international issue, and a joint task force was built to determine the source of the dope. The task force worked for months, eventually discovering the gang (The Bandito's, I believe, were their names) and began to pick up on some deeper criminal threads that ran underneath their drug running business. They discovered a string of missing women, usually 16-18 years of age, that all were seemingly abducted from Bandito territory in SC through Arizona. Eventually, they determined that the Banditos were taking these girls. Having planted some undercovers in the gang, they finally got to the point where one was to be initiated as a member, and given his jacket and brand. They had the initiation ceremony in the desert, somewhere in southern Arizona. The member to be initiated would be tasked to abduct a girl, preferably underage, but old enough to be considered a women. The girl would be brought to the site, and the senior most bandito would rape her, followed by every single member of the gang. They would then kill the girl, and burn her. The new member was expected to eat a piece of the girl, and upon doing that would receive his brand. You see, you must be a murderer to be a Bandito.
My question to all those sympathizers is, what do you do with people like this? Do you try to rehabilitate them? How do you make them functioning members of society? Furthering that, where do you draw the line? Where is it that you stop punishing, and start rehabilitating?
Maybe I am hardened, I don't know. I just don't understand how someone can royally fuck up their life and get anything from anyone else but 'yup, you're fucked'. This whole 'rage against the man' thing is dumb. The dude went to jail. Let him get his emotional catharsis from writing this blog, or whatever, just don't shower him with sympathy, or offer to help him find a job, are you fucking serious?
There are plenty of people who aren't fucking morons, and who didn't attempt to rob someone who work hard every day for shit, and don't get a whole forum full of anon's sucking their collective dicks because they cant afford a computer.
Tl;dr Life sucks, its unfair, learn to play the game, because if you don't, you fucking lose. GG
Best thread I've read on tl, ever. Thank you, it was an amazing read. Could you link the forum this came from so I can check for updates from OP, please?
On July 18 2010 10:33 Ghostcom wrote: I think I am me, presenting my opinion on an internet forum. I posted my honest opinion which apperantly differed from yours, which should be fine and we should be able to discuss it maturely. Apperantly that isn't the case...
It was, until you said this
And anyone who would buy a book from such a guy should honestly be ashamed of themselves.
Changed pretty much the ENTIRE tone of your post. Stating an opinion is fine, but telling someone what they should think because their opinion differs from you is not cool.
No it still was, though if you wanted to be offended by it I can see why you could be. Let me rephrase it:
And anyone who would buy a book from such a guy should honestly be ashamed of themselves (imho).
Seriously, it should be pretty damn clear that it was merely my opinion and not me trying to impose what others should think (though in the end, aren't all opinions when laid out for discussion actually an attempt at that?).
And perhaps you should read your own posts when you speak about tone as yours aren't exactly too good either - backseat moderating = not cool.
In the 1980's, there was a Latin American biker gang that operated out of the southern California area, through to Arizona. Being a cop in the Midwest at the time, this normally would not have anything to do with him, however, the gang ran cocaine from Mexico all the way through the pipeline in to Chicago and eventually through Detroit to Canada. This made it an international issue, and a joint task force was built to determine the source of the dope. The task force worked for months, eventually discovering the gang (The Bandito's, I believe, were their names) and began to pick up on some deeper criminal threads that ran underneath their drug running business. They discovered a string of missing women, usually 16-18 years of age, that all were seemingly abducted from Bandito territory in SC through Arizona. Eventually, they determined that the Banditos were taking these girls. Having planted some undercovers in the gang, they finally got to the point where one was to be initiated as a member, and given his jacket and brand. They had the initiation ceremony in the desert, somewhere in southern Arizona. The member to be initiated would be tasked to abduct a girl, preferably underage, but old enough to be considered a women. The girl would be brought to the site, and the senior most bandito would rape her, followed by every single member of the gang. They would then kill the girl, and burn her. The new member was expected to eat a piece of the girl, and upon doing that would receive his brand. You see, you must be a murderer to be a Bandito.
Holy crap that story had me frozen at some of the things humans will do for absolutely no reason. I agree that this guy should have been in jail, probably for longer but that doesn't negate the fact that this story had some very good life lessons and is still indeed a VERY interesting read. Mega props to him and I hope he reads more and finds a way to correct his life. Also wtf at 22 months for an armed robbery?
Well since we're in the mood for 'opinions', then if someone is beyond rehabilitation.. why make them suffer like this? Imo the death penalty (lethal injection etc) is better than being beaten and stabbed to death with a sharpened tooth brush; or being subjected to what almost amounts to torture for the rest of your life.
To clarify: I am talking about the prison system in general. Not just this guys story. The dude served 2 years, and went through all that shit. Just because it is a 'relatively' short stay (and who's to say the 'average' sentence is what the 'average' prisoner deserves?) doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to get out. Along with the obvious reflection and wanting to become a better person after it; I feel he is fit to re-enter society.
The example of the rape and murder of all those girls comes no where close to what this guy did. I presume they are probably beyond rehabilitation. It wouldn't surprise me if they got the death penalty.
On July 18 2010 10:33 Ghostcom wrote: I think I am me, presenting my opinion on an internet forum. I posted my honest opinion which apperantly differed from yours, which should be fine and we should be able to discuss it maturely. Apperantly that isn't the case...
It was, until you said this
And anyone who would buy a book from such a guy should honestly be ashamed of themselves.
Changed pretty much the ENTIRE tone of your post. Stating an opinion is fine, but telling someone what they should think because their opinion differs from you is not cool.
I would buy a book by this guy, he writes with a voice, I buy books because they are interesting to read, and a book by him would be interesting.
On July 18 2010 08:20 Ghostcom wrote: Just a question, he commited armed robbery, probably mentally traumatized those he robbed, why should I feel any pity for him? imho he even got off too lightly... I'm fine with these sort of people ending in dead-end jobs - they aren't worth any better.
This is how traumatized you will be after having a gun aimed at you: |>----<|
This is how traumatized you will be after being "forced" into drugs, getting raped, getting beaten, getting shielded from the outside world, seen interns cut each other open and ripping the guts out. |>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<|
Yeah, he got off too lightly...
I happen to work on an open psychiatric ward and have actually met people for whom being robbed with a gun has happend. They have trouble leaving their homes, they can't keep up their job and they have to take medications just to get some sleep which is still a terrible sleep. And the worst part about it is that they couldn't in any way have avoided the situation. If you think he got off lightly you should visit a psychiatric hospital sometime...
He got off light...
It's this kind of reasoning that really gets me. This self perpetuating 'but they were worse..' kind of mentality. + Show Spoiler +
If you subscribe to that kind of thought, then why not throw all human rights out the window? It's thinking like that which responsible for all kinds of nasty shit: the patriot act and torture and humiliation in the prison system. Also responsible for 'democratic governments' slaughtering the villages of so called 'rebel tribes' in Africa.
Was it right that he pulled a gun on someone? No. Most definitely not. Is it right to then put someone through something like that, with no intent on rehabilitation? No. Most definitely not.
To quote my mum: "Two wrongs don't make a right."
In any case, it was still an amazing story; and he should totally publish a book!
I think a big part of why we disagree (because, come on - I never said anything about throwing away all human rights) is that I believe if a punishment is hard enough, the crime won't be done whilst you (apperantly) believe in rehabilitating people, trying to prevent the crime from happening AGAIN. Whilst rehabilitation is on paper a good thing, it has a couple of downside, one being it's low succesrate (wheter it be the system as it seems you believe or due to the nature of people turning criminals in the first place is another discussion) another being that it doesn't stop the first crime.
That was my reason for saying he got off too lightly.
Wheter or not the US prison system is fine is somewhat out of my league to comment on - though one has to remember that most of what he described was done by OTHER inmates which can be pretty hard for the prisonguards to stop.
And anyone who would buy a book from such a guy should honestly be ashamed of themselves. If he got rich off writing such a book, he basicly got rewarded for his crime...
Gonna pretty much disagree with everything you say.
Prison systems do not have a good success rate, and rehabilitation has been accomplished to great effect, several times, not just "on paper". Reincarnation is ridiculously high with the current prison system, I suggest you read some topics on the issue, because this is fact, not opinion.
Hard for the prison-guards to stop? More like they are fucking lazy slobs and completely corrupt. Just think about the person you'd have to be and your path in life to become a prison guard. The others are pretty much too scared to do anything.
He's not "rewarded" for his crime if people read a theoretical book he published, he's rewarded for his ability to deal with intense emotional situations and for his writing capability.
As for "And anyone who would buy a book from such a guy should honestly be ashamed of themselves. " It's a comment, not even a real opinion as you didnt list any reasons why. It would be like me going into a female activist thread and shiting all over it with a comment like, "Women's rights are a joke." , you don't even state your real opinion- just a hateful snide comment.
If you honestly want some information on the current prison system in the US, PM me.
One day he comes back for lock down, takes a hit and after a few minutes says - this isn't H, try it. And it turned out to be powdered MDMA, or Ecstacy. We both did it and ended up giving each other blow jobs. Afterward, things were pretty awkward until I said, you know fuck it, we're in prison, let's make a deal that if we can score for ecstacy again we'll get each other off.
We were good friends after that. He got out before me, and I definetly don' think I'll look him up.
I returned from Iraq last year, and my father decided to take me to Las Vegas as a celebration/relaxation trip, since I had always wanted to go there. He was a police officer for 30 years, and recently retired from the Sheriff department that he had worked at all that time. Our first night, he got a bit drunk, and we started trading stories, me from the war, and him from his time in blue. One of the stories he told me seems to be a fitting example of why our prison system is necessary.
In the 1980's, there was a Latin American biker gang that operated out of the southern California area, through to Arizona. Being a cop in the Midwest at the time, this normally would not have anything to do with him, however, the gang ran cocaine from Mexico all the way through the pipeline in to Chicago and eventually through Detroit to Canada. This made it an international issue, and a joint task force was built to determine the source of the dope. The task force worked for months, eventually discovering the gang (The Bandito's, I believe, were their names) and began to pick up on some deeper criminal threads that ran underneath their drug running business. They discovered a string of missing women, usually 16-18 years of age, that all were seemingly abducted from Bandito territory in SC through Arizona. Eventually, they determined that the Banditos were taking these girls. Having planted some undercovers in the gang, they finally got to the point where one was to be initiated as a member, and given his jacket and brand. They had the initiation ceremony in the desert, somewhere in southern Arizona. The member to be initiated would be tasked to abduct a girl, preferably underage, but old enough to be considered a women. The girl would be brought to the site, and the senior most bandito would rape her, followed by every single member of the gang. They would then kill the girl, and burn her. The new member was expected to eat a piece of the girl, and upon doing that would receive his brand. You see, you must be a murderer to be a Bandito.
My question to all those sympathizers is, what do you do with people like this? Do you try to rehabilitate them? How do you make them functioning members of society? Furthering that, where do you draw the line? Where is it that you stop punishing, and start rehabilitating?
First of all I think what you describe is horrible but these gang members wouldn't have done what they did if they wheren't affected by environment. I bet that none of them would do what they did if they where alone and in a different environment.
Since you were a in Iraq then you probably heard of or seen fellow american soldiers doing thing they never would have done at home. The environment we live in shapes us.
How should the gang members get rehabilitated? By moving them from their environment and letting them get a chance to make themselves a better life. Give them prison time as a punishment but avoid cutting their chances to come back into the society.
Maybe I am hardened, I don't know. I just don't understand how someone can royally fuck up their life and get anything from anyone else but 'yup, you're fucked'. This whole 'rage against the man' thing is dumb. The dude went to jail. Let him get his emotional catharsis from writing this blog, or whatever, just don't shower him with sympathy, or offer to help him find a job, are you fucking serious?
There are plenty of people who aren't fucking morons, and who didn't attempt to rob someone who work hard every day for shit, and don't get a whole forum full of anon's sucking their collective dicks because they cant afford a computer.
Tl;dr Life sucks, its unfair, learn to play the game, because if you don't, you fucking lose. GGLast edit: 2010-07-18 10:40:11
Lets say a your son had some kind of problems and decides to steal a car which he crashes. He gets busted and put in jail for a couple of months and during that period he gets raped and beated half to death a couple of times. Would your opinion still be 'yup, you're fucked' since it was his own fault he was put in jail?
On July 18 2010 08:20 Ghostcom wrote: Just a question, he commited armed robbery, probably mentally traumatized those he robbed, why should I feel any pity for him? imho he even got off too lightly... I'm fine with these sort of people ending in dead-end jobs - they aren't worth any better.
This is how traumatized you will be after having a gun aimed at you: |>----<|
This is how traumatized you will be after being "forced" into drugs, getting raped, getting beaten, getting shielded from the outside world, seen interns cut each other open and ripping the guts out. |>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<|
Yeah, he got off too lightly...
I happen to work on an open psychiatric ward and have actually met people for whom being robbed with a gun has happend. They have trouble leaving their homes, they can't keep up their job and they have to take medications just to get some sleep which is still a terrible sleep. And the worst part about it is that they couldn't in any way have avoided the situation. If you think he got off lightly you should visit a psychiatric hospital sometime...
He got off light...
It's this kind of reasoning that really gets me. This self perpetuating 'but they were worse..' kind of mentality. + Show Spoiler +
If you subscribe to that kind of thought, then why not throw all human rights out the window? It's thinking like that which responsible for all kinds of nasty shit: the patriot act and torture and humiliation in the prison system. Also responsible for 'democratic governments' slaughtering the villages of so called 'rebel tribes' in Africa.
Was it right that he pulled a gun on someone? No. Most definitely not. Is it right to then put someone through something like that, with no intent on rehabilitation? No. Most definitely not.
To quote my mum: "Two wrongs don't make a right."
In any case, it was still an amazing story; and he should totally publish a book!
I think a big part of why we disagree (because, come on - I never said anything about throwing away all human rights) is that I believe if a punishment is hard enough, the crime won't be done whilst you (apperantly) believe in rehabilitating people, trying to prevent the crime from happening AGAIN. Whilst rehabilitation is on paper a good thing, it has a couple of downside, one being it's low succesrate (wheter it be the system as it seems you believe or due to the nature of people turning criminals in the first place is another discussion) another being that it doesn't stop the first crime.
That was my reason for saying he got off too lightly.
Wheter or not the US prison system is fine is somewhat out of my league to comment on - though one has to remember that most of what he described was done by OTHER inmates which can be pretty hard for the prisonguards to stop.
And anyone who would buy a book from such a guy should honestly be ashamed of themselves. If he got rich off writing such a book, he basicly got rewarded for his crime...
Gonna pretty much disagree with everything you say.
Prison systems do not have a good success rate, and rehabilitation has been accomplished to great effect, several times, not just "on paper". Reincarnation is ridiculously high with the current prison system, I suggest you read some topics on the issue, because this is fact, not opinion.
Hard for the prison-guards to stop? More like they are fucking lazy slobs and completely corrupt. Just think about the person you'd have to be and your path in life to become a prison guard. The others are pretty much too scared to do anything.
He's not "rewarded" for his crime if people read a theoretical book he published, he's rewarded for his ability to deal with intense emotional situations and for his writing capability.
As for "And anyone who would buy a book from such a guy should honestly be ashamed of themselves. " It's a comment, not even a real opinion as you didnt list any reasons why. It would be like me going into a female activist thread and shiting all over it with a comment like, "Women's rights are a joke." , you don't even state your real opinion- just a hateful snide comment.
If you honestly want some information on the current prison system in the US, PM me.
My reason for that comment followed STRAIGHT after - it was the he got rewarded for his crime. You disagreeing with that is fine, but your parallel sucks as it isn't a parallel in any way imagineable. Sure he needs to have the basic skills to write about his experience, but he wouldn't have been able to write the book had he not commited the crime in the first place.
One of my friends is a prison guard in Denmark. She has told me that depending on the ratio of the racial (this is going to sound racistic, but I'm honestly just repeating what she said) convicts they have to lock them up in their cells, because whenever they get out they'll start fighting all over the place. The problem is that a lockdown going on 100% of the time isn't possible either. Perhaps this is because I'm living in another country, but blaming everything on the lazyness/corruptedness of prison guards seems wrong, especially when on his top ten list @7 of the points are due to other inmates, 1 of them are due to security and 2 of them are due human nature.
Also, did ANYONE actually take note that this isn't the average prison? He was in a level 5 prison, the one with the highest security and most FUBAR people walking the planet...
So apperantly more than 50% are getting re-arrested during their parole is a great sign of succes? And up to 70% depending on crime commited within 3 years of their release... Sorry, but that's not very succesful in my eyes, especially not when robbery is one of the things that tops the list...
It would be wonderful if rehabilitation worked better (which it probably could if the system got improved, but some might very well be due to the nature of the criminals as well), but it doesn't.
On July 18 2010 10:39 NearlyDead wrote: My question to all those sympathizers is, what do you do with people like this? Do you try to rehabilitate them? How do you make them functioning members of society? Furthering that, where do you draw the line? Where is it that you stop punishing, and start rehabilitating?
i guess jail isn't really what it is in the movies... not that much gay rape but they enjoy it sometimes. A lot of solitary cells which they don't have anything. No workout equipments like the ones u see in the movies where they get buff and shit. Horrific Events like stabbing someone and ripping their meat out.. is just awful. You really under appreciate the things you do in a real human society
Wow. When I clicked the thread, at first I was like "Oh, no way. Where's the tl;dr?" But I started reading anyways and ended up reading all of it.
Really, what light is there at the end of the tunnel for guys like that? Rehabilitated or not, with your record tainted like that, there's really nothing left for you. No one's gonna want you working for them. A university degree and he considers himself lucky to get a job offer as a window washer in another city but can't even take that because of the conditions of his parole? Man, there really are no second chance to "rehabilitate" or "integrate back into society," and these guys all know it.
And then there are people who born into cycles like this... Ugh, human society...
wow this was a great read. took me a while to figure out what contrapedophile was though... i'm guessing there's a filter on that board where pedophile=band?
Pretty much scared me shitless. Very interesting look at some of the stuff the National Geographic shows don't tell you about. I've never heard, nor would have ever imagined, the "opening a hole" thing in prisons. Wow.
And I think the shit-poor rehabilitation odds have a bit to do with the social stigma (not saying it's undeserved) towards prisoners. How difficult it must be to get a real job being an ex-con. Pretty much all you have left is crime or dealing or the shittiest jobs you can imagine.
And I would read a book by this guy. I wouldn't be ashamed at all, because he really is a talented writer and this shit really needs to be known. If we just shut out any information offered by any ex-con, we could be missing some of the most interesting and possibly educational information out there. For the sake of "not rewarding someone for committing a crime." Who the fuck cares? Why are you guys so intent on ex-cons never ever being able to contribute to society?
Spent the last 2 hours reading this and it was an amazing story, i actually felt sick when i read about the life he had before he went in, so many opportunities that just went down the shitter, now he has to try and find a job, which is hard enough as it is these days, but he's gonna have to do it with a criminal record.
Also, seeing Amnesia's sig "Smoke weed every day" as soon as i was done reading made cringe.
On July 18 2010 08:20 Ghostcom wrote: Just a question, he commited armed robbery, probably mentally traumatized those he robbed, why should I feel any pity for him? imho he even got off too lightly... I'm fine with these sort of people ending in dead-end jobs - they aren't worth any better.
This is how traumatized you will be after having a gun aimed at you: |>----<|
This is how traumatized you will be after being "forced" into drugs, getting raped, getting beaten, getting shielded from the outside world, seen interns cut each other open and ripping the guts out. |>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<|
Yeah, he got off too lightly...
I happen to work on an open psychiatric ward and have actually met people for whom being robbed with a gun has happend. They have trouble leaving their homes, they can't keep up their job and they have to take medications just to get some sleep which is still a terrible sleep. And the worst part about it is that they couldn't in any way have avoided the situation. If you think he got off lightly you should visit a psychiatric hospital sometime...
He got off light...
It's this kind of reasoning that really gets me. This self perpetuating 'but they were worse..' kind of mentality. + Show Spoiler +
If you subscribe to that kind of thought, then why not throw all human rights out the window? It's thinking like that which responsible for all kinds of nasty shit: the patriot act and torture and humiliation in the prison system. Also responsible for 'democratic governments' slaughtering the villages of so called 'rebel tribes' in Africa.
Was it right that he pulled a gun on someone? No. Most definitely not. Is it right to then put someone through something like that, with no intent on rehabilitation? No. Most definitely not.
To quote my mum: "Two wrongs don't make a right."
In any case, it was still an amazing story; and he should totally publish a book!
I think a big part of why we disagree (because, come on - I never said anything about throwing away all human rights) is that I believe if a punishment is hard enough, the crime won't be done whilst you (apperantly) believe in rehabilitating people, trying to prevent the crime from happening AGAIN. Whilst rehabilitation is on paper a good thing, it has a couple of downside, one being it's low succesrate (wheter it be the system as it seems you believe or due to the nature of people turning criminals in the first place is another discussion) another being that it doesn't stop the first crime.
That was my reason for saying he got off too lightly.
Wheter or not the US prison system is fine is somewhat out of my league to comment on - though one has to remember that most of what he described was done by OTHER inmates which can be pretty hard for the prisonguards to stop.
And anyone who would buy a book from such a guy should honestly be ashamed of themselves. If he got rich off writing such a book, he basicly got rewarded for his crime...
Gonna pretty much disagree with everything you say.
Prison systems do not have a good success rate, and rehabilitation has been accomplished to great effect, several times, not just "on paper". Reincarnation is ridiculously high with the current prison system, I suggest you read some topics on the issue, because this is fact, not opinion.
Hard for the prison-guards to stop? More like they are fucking lazy slobs and completely corrupt. Just think about the person you'd have to be and your path in life to become a prison guard. The others are pretty much too scared to do anything.
He's not "rewarded" for his crime if people read a theoretical book he published, he's rewarded for his ability to deal with intense emotional situations and for his writing capability.
As for "And anyone who would buy a book from such a guy should honestly be ashamed of themselves. " It's a comment, not even a real opinion as you didnt list any reasons why. It would be like me going into a female activist thread and shiting all over it with a comment like, "Women's rights are a joke." , you don't even state your real opinion- just a hateful snide comment.
If you honestly want some information on the current prison system in the US, PM me.
this is complete bullshit.
My cousin is a prison guard in a maximum security prison. Not only is he an extremely nice guy he always tells me how he is always very respectful to the inmates because it makes everything run smoother.
And what the hell does "the person you would have to be and your path in life" have to do with anything? thats just ridiculous. way to create and spread unfounded stereotypes.
as for being too scared to do anything. hes a marine core veteran with 2 tours of combat duty. you figure it out.
Btw its re incarceration Not "Reincarnation" Reincarnation is when you die and your soul comes back in another body
On July 18 2010 08:20 Ghostcom wrote: Just a question, he commited armed robbery, probably mentally traumatized those he robbed, why should I feel any pity for him? imho he even got off too lightly... I'm fine with these sort of people ending in dead-end jobs - they aren't worth any better.
This is how traumatized you will be after having a gun aimed at you: |>----<|
This is how traumatized you will be after being "forced" into drugs, getting raped, getting beaten, getting shielded from the outside world, seen interns cut each other open and ripping the guts out. |>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<|
Yeah, he got off too lightly...
I happen to work on an open psychiatric ward and have actually met people for whom being robbed with a gun has happend. They have trouble leaving their homes, they can't keep up their job and they have to take medications just to get some sleep which is still a terrible sleep. And the worst part about it is that they couldn't in any way have avoided the situation. If you think he got off lightly you should visit a psychiatric hospital sometime...
He got off light...
It's this kind of reasoning that really gets me. This self perpetuating 'but they were worse..' kind of mentality. + Show Spoiler +
If you subscribe to that kind of thought, then why not throw all human rights out the window? It's thinking like that which responsible for all kinds of nasty shit: the patriot act and torture and humiliation in the prison system. Also responsible for 'democratic governments' slaughtering the villages of so called 'rebel tribes' in Africa.
Was it right that he pulled a gun on someone? No. Most definitely not. Is it right to then put someone through something like that, with no intent on rehabilitation? No. Most definitely not.
To quote my mum: "Two wrongs don't make a right."
In any case, it was still an amazing story; and he should totally publish a book!
I think a big part of why we disagree (because, come on - I never said anything about throwing away all human rights) is that I believe if a punishment is hard enough, the crime won't be done whilst you (apperantly) believe in rehabilitating people, trying to prevent the crime from happening AGAIN. Whilst rehabilitation is on paper a good thing, it has a couple of downside, one being it's low succesrate (wheter it be the system as it seems you believe or due to the nature of people turning criminals in the first place is another discussion) another being that it doesn't stop the first crime.
That was my reason for saying he got off too lightly.
Wheter or not the US prison system is fine is somewhat out of my league to comment on - though one has to remember that most of what he described was done by OTHER inmates which can be pretty hard for the prisonguards to stop.
And anyone who would buy a book from such a guy should honestly be ashamed of themselves. If he got rich off writing such a book, he basicly got rewarded for his crime...
Gonna pretty much disagree with everything you say.
Prison systems do not have a good success rate, and rehabilitation has been accomplished to great effect, several times, not just "on paper". Reincarnation is ridiculously high with the current prison system, I suggest you read some topics on the issue, because this is fact, not opinion.
Hard for the prison-guards to stop? More like they are fucking lazy slobs and completely corrupt. Just think about the person you'd have to be and your path in life to become a prison guard. The others are pretty much too scared to do anything.
He's not "rewarded" for his crime if people read a theoretical book he published, he's rewarded for his ability to deal with intense emotional situations and for his writing capability.
As for "And anyone who would buy a book from such a guy should honestly be ashamed of themselves. " It's a comment, not even a real opinion as you didnt list any reasons why. It would be like me going into a female activist thread and shiting all over it with a comment like, "Women's rights are a joke." , you don't even state your real opinion- just a hateful snide comment.
If you honestly want some information on the current prison system in the US, PM me.
Ever heard of the Stanford prisoners experiment? If ordinary people can become tyrannical prison guards in less than a week, it should be no surprise what prison guards of real prisons can become.
Good job antagonizing the people with one of the shittiest jobs ever.
Maybe I am hardened, I don't know. I just don't understand how someone can royally fuck up their life and get anything from anyone else but 'yup, you're fucked'. This whole 'rage against the man' thing is dumb. The dude went to jail. Let him get his emotional catharsis from writing this blog, or whatever, just don't shower him with sympathy, or offer to help him find a job, are you fucking serious?
There are plenty of people who aren't fucking morons, and who didn't attempt to rob someone who work hard every day for shit, and don't get a whole forum full of anon's sucking their collective dicks because they cant afford a computer.
Tl;dr Life sucks, its unfair, learn to play the game, because if you don't, you fucking lose. GG
I find it quite ironic that someone that has been to Iraq or any war can claim that people should be fucked for life for making a misstake. Yes, one very isolated incident when you are young and stupid is quite diffrent from raping and murdering over and over again. Don't even try to compare the two. In a war people are allowed to do atrocious things and get forgiven for them as soon as they get home, shouldn't we just kick them out of society aswell? Every single soldier that held a gun that killed or hurt anyone that wasn't activly at the time trying to kill them, kicked out on the street. Sounds good yea?
The reason why the guy is getting sympathy is because he seems to genuinely upset of what he did, not just because he got sent to prison. I don't have much sympathy for him personally mostly because I find his views rather disturbing aswell as at least from my point of view armed robbery is a bit more than I think should just be instantly forgiven. However it should never ever be a "fucked for life" sentance. You're not being "hard" you're being ridiculous.
You ask were do you draw the line and then provide an over the top example, two people can play that game. a 6 year old gets into a fight? That's assault, should he be kicked out of society, right? Or drunk in public? let's fire them and make it impossible for them ever to get a job again. WOO.
If you go "If you make a misstake you're fucked" you don't end up with a working society, because I can bet my ass that you made quite a few misstakes during your lifetime. Not as serious ofcourse, but still misstakes.
Absolutely compelling read. The only ideas I had of prison were from movies and some letters I read from my girlfriends brother, who is serving 7 years in prison. After having read the OP, I've gained much insight of the horrors of prison, and how I should value my lifestyle and our 'freedom.' The littlest things we take for granted can be taken away in one fell swoop if we make terrible decisions. Again, great read. It really opened my eyes on the fundamentals of our everyday life.
Great read, had no idea what prisons were like except the old "don't drop the soap". The death portion really made me cringe. Makes me want to just appreciate the life I have, didn't know everyday life would be so good to have.
I will definately post this on another forum. This man's story is one that people should hear. I feel no sympathy nor pity for him- I do, however, recognize that he is remorseful, and that he certainly deserves a second chance.
I did 3 months in county once, but I was up on GTA...
...so I could have faced 3 years in prison. I had to worry about that coming. It didn't happen... but I didn't know it for 3 months. Terrifying.
All the little shit you take for granted. Being able to go outside. Feeling safe. Soft beds. Good food. Sunlight. Man... the jail I was in sucked. Gave me a WHOLE different perspective on hearing someone got 10 years for such and such.
I hate people now who just throw around the terms. 10 years. 20 years. They have no idea what its like.
And, the US has a higher per capita incarceration rate than any industrialized nation- by far. Talk about being #1.
And I feel what the OP is saying about African Americans vs White. I hung with the brothas while i was in as much as I could. I basically made it clear. I'm with you guys. From the start. I think it made my stay much better.
This was definitely the largest article I've personally ever read on the Internet, but damn, this was an excellent read, as so many people have said. Hearing how shitty it is on the inside really de-motivates you to do anything stupid that'll get you locked up. The OP was written so well that if the guy didn't have such amazing descriptions, I almost wouldn't believe he's an ex-convict. Once again, amazing read, fucking amazing.
Simply amazing. So many salient points. He could very well write a book and make some money for himself, although it would take a good deal of time and emotional effort out of him - easily a bestselling nonfiction with his writing skill.
The reason why the guy is getting sympathy is because he seems to genuinely upset of what he did, not just because he got sent to prison.
Not once did I get the impression that he felt upset about the original crime. No mention of his victims' mental state, no hint of regret about the actual armed robbery. It's all about him.
A question was posed,"Or if you had the chance, you would roll everything back and be the man before the crime?". Which basically asks,"Do you regret doing it?". No response is given.
The reason why the guy is getting sympathy is because he seems to genuinely upset of what he did, not just because he got sent to prison.
Not once did I get the impression that he felt upset about the original crime. No mention of his victims' mental state, no hint of regret about the actual armed robbery. It's all about him.
A question was posed,"Or if you had the chance, you would roll everything back and be the man before the crime?". Which basically asks,"Do you regret doing it?". No response is given.
Yeah, interesting reading, well written, but for people who are feeling sympathy for him: He is a junkie who commited armed robbery. I find hypocritical when he writes abouth death in prison and how "touched" he was by it. Had something happened during the robbery, he would be the killer. The prison isn't supposed to be summer camp, it's bad there, but people who are in there deserve this. So interesting reading, but no sympathy from me.
The reason why the guy is getting sympathy is because he seems to genuinely upset of what he did, not just because he got sent to prison.
Not once did I get the impression that he felt upset about the original crime. No mention of his victims' mental state, no hint of regret about the actual armed robbery. It's all about him.
A question was posed,"Or if you had the chance, you would roll everything back and be the man before the crime?". Which basically asks,"Do you regret doing it?". No response is given.
Yeah, interesting reading, well written, but for people who are feeling sympathy for him: He is a junkie who commited armed robbery. I find hypocritical when he writes abouth death in prison and how "touched" he was by it. Had something happened during the robbery, he would be the killer. The prison isn't supposed to be summer camp, it's bad there, but people who are in there deserve this. So interesting reading, but no sympathy from me.
guys... no one is asking for sympathy!!! he is just explaining how jail is cruel and why you should never do bad things just to avoid it.
My reason for that comment followed STRAIGHT after - it was the he got rewarded for his crime. You disagreeing with that is fine, but your parallel sucks as it isn't a parallel in any way imagineable. Sure he needs to have the basic skills to write about his experience, but he wouldn't have been able to write the book had he not commited the crime in the first place.
Im not disagreeing with you in the slightest, im just saying you have inconsistent logic that you should consider fixing. This is actually meant in a pretty constructive way, The whole, "him selling a book= reward for his crime", is flawed. Not is it my flawed logic or yours, yo can debate that, but im pretty sure its not mine.
Btw its re incarceration Not "Reincarnation" Reincarnation is when you die and your soul comes back in another body
Meh. Pretty obvious typo. if you want to say that it debunks my entire argument because of a typo, then just say it. otherwise i dont see the point of addressing it
My reason for that comment followed STRAIGHT after - it was the he got rewarded for his crime. You disagreeing with that is fine, but your parallel sucks as it isn't a parallel in any way imagineable. Sure he needs to have the basic skills to write about his experience, but he wouldn't have been able to write the book had he not commited the crime in the first place.
Im not disagreeing with you in the slightest, im just saying you have backwards logic that you should consider fixing. This is actually meant in a pretty constructive way, if you really think that him selling a book= reward for his crime, you probably have other logic deficiencies with yourself.
I'm honestly confused right now - what exactly did you do then?
Let me make a parallel of my own to throw a light on what I meant:
Would you buy a book from Osama Bin Laden "The 2 towers and how I did it"? Buying it would only make him profit more from the atrocity...
The consumer has (imo) moral obligations and how everyone deals with that is up to themselves...
On July 18 2010 21:28 HeavOnEarth wrote: edited my post above. sounded a bit harsh unintentionally. as for
Would you buy a book from Osama Bin Laden "The 2 towers and how I did it"?
Is the man selling a book about his stick up job? It's about his experience in prison.
So would you buy a book from Osama on how to live in caves? Your logic isn't any better than mine...
I never said i would buy a book from this guy, nor buy a book from osama , Your assumed point was- Would i be ashamed to buy a book about osama about living in caves? No, Not really.
Eh, could you just reply in a PM? The whole reason i didnt like your post in the first place, and bothered replying is because it derailed a pretty decent thread, and pretty much said "fuck you" to the OP
My reason for that comment followed STRAIGHT after - it was the he got rewarded for his crime. You disagreeing with that is fine, but your parallel sucks as it isn't a parallel in any way imagineable. Sure he needs to have the basic skills to write about his experience, but he wouldn't have been able to write the book had he not commited the crime in the first place.
Im not disagreeing with you in the slightest, im just saying you have backwards logic that you should consider fixing. This is actually meant in a pretty constructive way, if you really think that him selling a book= reward for his crime, you probably have other logic deficiencies with yourself.
I'm honestly confused right now - what exactly did you do then?
Let me make a parallel of my own to throw a light on what I meant:
Would you buy a book from Osama Bin Laden "The 2 towers and how I did it"? Buying it would only make him profit more from the atrocity...
The consumer has (imo) moral obligations and how everyone deals with that is up to themselves...
On July 18 2010 21:28 HeavOnEarth wrote: edited my post above. sounded a bit harsh unintentionally. as for
Would you buy a book from Osama Bin Laden "The 2 towers and how I did it"?
Is the man selling a book about his stick up job? It's about his experience in prison.
So would you buy a book from Osama on how to live in caves? Your logic isn't any better than mine...
I never said i would buy a book from this guy, nor buy a book from osama , Your assumed point was- Would i be ashamed to buy a book about osama about living in caves? No, Not really.
I honestly give up. You aren't makeing any sense at all.
You respond to me writing that anyone who buys such a book should be ashamed of themselves since they make him profit from his crime. And now you say you wouldn't buy such a book. Fine, what exactly is it that you are trying to discuss? The ethical part of it? He wouldn't have had this experience had he not been to a top-security prison - which he only ended up in because he commited the crime. If anything what you disagree with me is about how far back the chain goes which is fine, but you haven't provided any solid arguments as to why you are right (other than that he needs to posses a basic skill - which he doesn't really need in the first place as he could just hire a ghostwriter).
And the most golden part of all your posts was probably where you generalised ALL prison guards to be either 1) lazy or 2) corrupt and that they were in fact the cause of the reported atrocities, when 7 of the points are due to the other FUBAR prisoners and not them. Perhaps you should look at your own logic inconsistency before trying to tell others to do the same? This is of course meant very constructive...
EDIT: an by give up I mean that this was my last post because this isn't leading anywhere.
My reason for that comment followed STRAIGHT after - it was the he got rewarded for his crime. You disagreeing with that is fine, but your parallel sucks as it isn't a parallel in any way imagineable. Sure he needs to have the basic skills to write about his experience, but he wouldn't have been able to write the book had he not commited the crime in the first place.
Im not disagreeing with you in the slightest, im just saying you have backwards logic that you should consider fixing. This is actually meant in a pretty constructive way, if you really think that him selling a book= reward for his crime, you probably have other logic deficiencies with yourself.
I'm honestly confused right now - what exactly did you do then?
Let me make a parallel of my own to throw a light on what I meant:
Would you buy a book from Osama Bin Laden "The 2 towers and how I did it"? Buying it would only make him profit more from the atrocity...
The consumer has (imo) moral obligations and how everyone deals with that is up to themselves...
If the book is glorifying the terrorist attack then it might be wrong to buy it. I think many people still would buy ut to try to understand his mind and finding out why someone would do something that horrible.
If Osama wrote about how his life got into a complete hell after the attack and how he regreted that he had been part of the terrorist network then I see nothing wrong in buying the book.
As a sidenote: The book "Mein Kampf" written by Adolf Hittler has sold a whole lot of copies.
Really nasty shit, even for a 1st World system, you can just imagine how a corrupt Third World system would have their systems organized, and how it would feel and be like for the people in them.
On July 18 2010 23:16 Biochemist wrote: I doubt that all prisons are run like this.
Maybe not, but I think that most of the violent offenders-type prisons are very close to this on the scale. Perhaps certain things aren't as bad, while others are worse. From what I've gathered from other's I know who've done time (even over here in the UK), this seems pretty spot on.
On July 18 2010 23:16 Biochemist wrote: I doubt that all prisons are run like this.
Maybe not, but I think that most of the violent offenders-type prisons are very close to this on the scale. Perhaps certain things aren't as bad, while others are worse. From what I've gathered from other's I know who've done time (even over here in the UK), this seems pretty spot on.
I dunno. I have no experience (first or secondhand) with the civilian prison system. I DO have quite a bit of experience with the naval prison system, as several of my friends were brig officers when I was in the Marines. Perhaps the difference comes from the inmates in a military prison being, you know, military, but everything there was always run so professionally and cleanly. There wasn't any prisoner on prisoner violence, drugs, or any of the other f'd up nonsense you see in this guy's posts.
I'd like to imagine that if I was a warden I'd be able to run my prison like a military prison, and not like this crap. Perhaps they have less control though, with laws governing how much they can punish prisoners (e.g. <1 week in solitary at a time).
Generally the more power you give to someone in charge the better, except for the assholes who abuse that power and cause laws to get passed protecting the prisoners, which lands you in a situation where the prisoners know you can't do anything to them, and so they aren't afraid of you anymore. I don't know much about the prison system, but this is certainly what's happening in boot camp (new recruits are WAY less disciplined than they used to be, and drill instructors are more afraid of recruits than the other way around).
I'm not sure why people are finding this so interesting and informative. Maybe it's just me but the only thing that slightly surprised me was the killing he described, which was more brutal than I would've imagined otherwise.
Honestly, all I see is a guy that committed armed robbery and instead of repenting in prison, did drugs and had "no homo" sex. He doesn't sound like someone that regrets what he did at all.
Call me crazy but I don't mind seeing people like him rot in prison. Prison should not be a joy ride after all. It's a punishement where you get thrown in with other psychos.
On July 19 2010 01:16 Kurr wrote: I'm not sure why people are finding this so interesting and informative. Maybe it's just me but the only thing that slightly surprised me was the killing he described, which was more brutal than I would've imagined otherwise.
Honestly, all I see is a guy that committed armed robbery and instead of repenting in prison, did drugs and had "no homo" sex. He doesn't sound like someone that regrets what he did at all.
Call me crazy but I don't mind seeing people like him rot in prison. Prison should not be a joy ride after all. It's a punishement where you get thrown in with other psychos.
On July 19 2010 01:16 Kurr wrote: I'm not sure why people are finding this so interesting and informative. Maybe it's just me but the only thing that slightly surprised me was the killing he described, which was more brutal than I would've imagined otherwise.
Honestly, all I see is a guy that committed armed robbery and instead of repenting in prison, did drugs and had "no homo" sex. He doesn't sound like someone that regrets what he did at all.
Call me crazy but I don't mind seeing people like him rot in prison. Prison should not be a joy ride after all. It's a punishement where you get thrown in with other psychos.
It's interesting because you get to see how it is in a prison? Which the general public don't know unless they get sent inside.
Also like you said the guy doesn't repent and his time only made him harder, he says at one time that he feels now that he could survive now if he is ever sent back. So it seems than for him and other inmate prison isn't really effective.
Wow, I just read that entire thing and I realized I never want to go to jail ever. That story about the guy that got his dick literally ripped out of him just scared the fuck out of me.
I don't understand why anyone would rejoice in the pain of others, even if the others are people who have done horrible things. Prison should do two things: Punish and rehabilitate. The punishment should be for the purpose of making people think twice, and give a sense that there is justice. The severity should be appropriate to the crime, but I certainly think that spending two years in jail is an extremely significant punishment. The punishment shouldn't be cruel, life in prison should not make people want to commit suicide. I think the best attitude to punishment is to be saddened when you are forced to administer it - it's a necessity, but not something to glory in.
The rehabilitation element is the far more desirable. Whether it currently has a good success rate or not - it's clearly not an impossibility. If the current success rate is bad, then perhaps figuring out how to improve it should be high on society's list of priorities. In the case of gang-members who rape, murder and eat girls with no remorse, there may not be a chance of rehabilitation. In that case, if they really are remorseless, they should simply be locked up for life, kept separate from society to prevent them from damaging it. They are clearly disturbed individuals, and it would be wrong to "throw them in with the other psychos" and hope that they do as much damage to each other as possible. Not only is it inhumane, it's also fairly arbitrary. Why should top dog criminals who "run" the prisons be given less punishment than the weak ones who are harassed by the other inmates?
In general, justice should not be arbitrary at all. The punishment should be meted out with a steady hand, not in a vengeful rage. It should not include things like preventing people from getting jobs (with some exceptions, such as kindergarten teacher, cash transport driver etc.) since this is clearly counter-productive to their rehabilitation into society.
Ask any prison-psychiatrist, and I'm willing to bet that damn near every single one of them have deep-rooted insecurities and feelings of inferiority. The people who commit (petty) crime are almost all going to be leading shitty lives with no real prospects for improvement. To say that they are driven to crime by their environment is perhaps not right - they are responsible for their actions. But if crime could be avoided by altering their environments, then clearly this would be a huge boon to the criminals as well as their victims.
On July 18 2010 21:32 Ghostcom wrote: So would you buy a book from Osama on how to live in caves? Your logic isn't any better than mine...
It's a completely different point he's making.
I would buy a book on a first-hand account on how a level five prison institute is like from the inside. Why? Because I'm interested in it, and people are interested in those kinds of things. Now I could just go and commit a violent murder and get the first-hand account on my own, but I couldn't live with myself knowing I'd killed someone.
My question to all those sympathizers is, what do you do with people like this? Do you try to rehabilitate them? How do you make them functioning members of society? Furthering that, where do you draw the line? Where is it that you stop punishing, and start rehabilitating?
First of all I think what you describe is horrible but these gang members wouldn't have done what they did if they wheren't affected by environment. I bet that none of them would do what they did if they where alone and in a different environment.
Since you were a in Iraq then you probably heard of or seen fellow american soldiers doing thing they never would have done at home. The environment we live in shapes us.
How should the gang members get rehabilitated? By moving them from their environment and letting them get a chance to make themselves a better life. Give them prison time as a punishment but avoid cutting their chances to come back into the society.
Lets say a your son had some kind of problems and decides to steal a car which he crashes. He gets busted and put in jail for a couple of months and during that period he gets raped and beated half to death a couple of times. Would your opinion still be 'yup, you're fucked' since it was his own fault he was put in jail?
Where is the humanity?
[/QUOTE]
I used an extreme case for a reason. I am trying to provide a counterpoint to all those who are giving this guy sympathy because of how fucked up the prison system is. My point is, when is it no longer useful or effective to provide rehabilitation? Where is the line where the crime is so heinous that the person needs to just be locked the fuck up?
Your example is inaccurate. You don't get L5 for GTA. L5 is reserved for the people who commit crimes with foresight and malice. If my son steals a car because he is drunk with his buddies, its his first offense, and he has no priors, he gets off with a plea bargain to the tune of 2 years probation with a tether and some community service. If you rob someone, or something, with a weapon, that is automatically intent to harm, and it is assumed that since you brought a weapon, you planned the crime, giving you foresight. You get hit with armed robbery with no priors, and you don't plead that down to probation. You get jail time, every time.
He got off relatively easy, in that sense. Based off his well to do upbringing, It really isn't a stretch to assume he had a good lawyer, and his parents forked over the cash to develop a good case in his defense. A poor person in the same situation probably gets 5-10 easy.
Honestly, its not that bad. We as Americans (or well to do foreigners) are so spoiled by the amenities of life that we forget you don't need all this shit to survive. They get fed in prison, and a warm bed. There are people in some countries who would kill (literally) to be put in an American prison. Hell, the food there sounds better than the stuff I ate in Iraq, where I couldn't go 20 minutes at a time without pissing out of my ass. As a military man, the stuff I had to deal with does not sound much better, and I don't run around bitching about it, because I volunteered to be put in that situation. By planning and then executing an armed robbery, he fucking volunteered to be put in prison.
Eye-opening. To all the ppl from Sweden that enjoyed this, I´m able to recommend a book called "El choco". It´s about a guy who ends up in a prison in Bolivia after going away on a trip and tried to go home with some extra luggage of cocaine. It´s his story about what happened..
Wow, Read most of. And to think, in my head I thought jail conditions were improving, but it seems that haven't really changed at all, and probably never will...
wow awesome read. this is pretty interresting to see how prison is diffirent in other country, I saw something similar about Quebec and they were like paradis when you compared them to that hell
On July 19 2010 05:09 Zerilous wrote: Wow, Read most of. And to think, in my head I thought jail conditions were improving, but it seems that haven't really changed at all, and probably never will...
Yeah, I mean...When are we going to ever have so much extra money that we are willing to improve the living situations for people who consciously decide to make our society a worse place? Until unemployment is like 0, I don't think it'll ever happen.
Wow... I always had a really bleak and terrifying image of prison in my head, but just the aspect of isolation and purposelessness is very grim and depressing.
On July 18 2010 08:20 Ghostcom wrote: Just a question, he commited armed robbery, probably mentally traumatized those he robbed, why should I feel any pity for him? imho he even got off too lightly... I'm fine with these sort of people ending in dead-end jobs - they aren't worth any better.
This is how traumatized you will be after having a gun aimed at you: |>----<|
This is how traumatized you will be after being "forced" into drugs, getting raped, getting beaten, getting shielded from the outside world, seen interns cut each other open and ripping the guts out. |>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<|
Yeah, he got off too lightly...
I happen to work on an open psychiatric ward and have actually met people for whom being robbed with a gun has happend. They have trouble leaving their homes, they can't keep up their job and they have to take medications just to get some sleep which is still a terrible sleep. And the worst part about it is that they couldn't in any way have avoided the situation. If you think he got off lightly you should visit a psychiatric hospital sometime...
He got off light...
Theirs a difference between "empathy" and "feeling sorry for".
I do not feel sorry for this man, he committed a crime and was sent to prison.
I am capable for showing empathy for him.
On the other hand the prison accomplishes its goal of making these people capable of living in society without harming others anymore
Did you not fucking read the OP?
And anyone who would buy a book from such a guy should honestly be ashamed of themselves. If he got rich off writing such a book, he basicly got rewarded for his crime...
No he would have been rewarded for writing a good book?
Seriously have you ever attempted to write a 300+ page book? Its hard even if you know exactly what you're going to write about. It requires constant and self-imposed discipline. Getting anything published is a nightmare. If he wrote a book and got money off of it, he would deserve it on the efforts of writing it alone. Unless you're saying this person no longer deserves any degree of success for his past actions.
I'd like to imagine that if I was a warden I'd be able to run my prison like a military prison, and not like this crap. Perhaps they have less control though, with laws governing how much they can punish prisoners (e.g. <1 week in solitary at a time).
The difference is with the people, not how they're run. Seriously, how many people in military prisons would attempt to stab people even if they were allowed to have a knife?
For those of you who are saying that Prison should be solely aimed at keeping "bad guys" away from us, and not to rehabilitate.
Just to put a different perspective into this, the United States prison system is/was an attempt at rehabilitation. The biggest contrast to America's policy of (shitty) Rehabilitation in the developed world is China's prison system, among the only developed nation that pursues a different prison policy. Specifically, prevention, keeping "bad guys" from being "bad" again.
Their, people are given death penalties for crimes such as drug dealing and smuggling, as well as murder, fraud, grand larceny, armed robbery, serious assault, and attempted murder. Its system is solely aimed at removing undesirable members of society from society. Among those crimes, "Smuggling", "Grand Larceny" and "Fraud" are commutable to a life sentence with no chance for parole.
Personally, I don't think we should strive to emulate china.
Well that isn't strictly true. China displays a "rehabilitation" policy for certain crimes. specifically, thought crimes against the state
What I'm wondering is how he thinks seeing people die first hand versus the videos people can access on the internet of murders and beheadings impacts people. People watch movies like 3 guys 1 hammer and the insurgent beheading movies and they feel like they've been desensitized to violence, but I would imagine seeing someone have their stomach ripped out by another person's bare hands would produce a different level of shock than seeing it on a video, especially since you know it's happening literally where you live and sleep.
On July 19 2010 01:16 Kurr wrote: I'm not sure why people are finding this so interesting and informative. Maybe it's just me but the only thing that slightly surprised me was the killing he described, which was more brutal than I would've imagined otherwise.
Honestly, all I see is a guy that committed armed robbery and instead of repenting in prison, did drugs and had "no homo" sex. He doesn't sound like someone that regrets what he did at all.
Call me crazy but I don't mind seeing people like him rot in prison. Prison should not be a joy ride after all. It's a punishement where you get thrown in with other psychos.
I agree with the part about none of it being very surprising at all other than the murder description. As far as seeing him rot in prison, yeah he should be punished for his crime obviously, but the environment being described is pretty inhumane and I don't know if attempted stealing of money warrants such brutal punishment.
I've been robbed at gunpoint and I wouldn't wish this on whoever did it, he should be punished, but watching people getting murdered and getting raped aren't really fitting punishment IMO.
As far as why people find it interesting - Prison is one of those things with a veil of mystery around it for the average person. No one really knows what any given jail is like without spending time observing them, which no one other than criminals and the people who work there get to do. The author is clearly pretty intelligent whatever anyone thinks of his choices, so it's especially interesting to get this information from the point of view of a well spoken ex-con.
I liked this alot since dry facts fail to make an impression in the same way a personal text does. That does not mean that I support this guy, or condemn him, it just means that I found this wall of text informative and interesting. How people can think they have all the answers about such a big and complex issue is beyond me.
Call me crazy but I don't mind seeing people like him rot in prison. Prison should not be a joy ride after all. It's a punishement where you get thrown in with other psychos.
I'm curious would you be ok with torturing prisoners? So they're "punished"?
Call me crazy but I don't mind seeing people like him rot in prison. Prison should not be a joy ride after all. It's a punishement where you get thrown in with other psychos.
I'm curious would you be ok with torturing prisoners? So they're "punished"?
I don't recall mentionning torture at any point in my post.
The crappy life in prison is due to the prisoners themselves honestly. If they all decided to work together to make their stay more pleasant, they could.
Instead they choose to stab and rape each other while taking drugs and smuggling a bunch of stuff inside. No prison in the world can change that state of mind (at least, in high security prisons). They make their own misery and quite frankly, if they're there in the first place, there's a good chance that they deserve it 100%.
I'm not a nice person. Don't get me wrong, I'm nice to people around me and all that. But I don't like drug dealers, robbers and murderers, etc and I don't feel much empathy for those type of people. There are plenty of ways to make a nice living even with a low salary job with little or no education. People resorting to breaking the law to make a living (or even worse, just because they can) know that what they are doing is wrong and they deserve their punishment (no, not torture; just living in prison is enough).
So no, I'm not OK with torture. But I am OK with the current prison system. Like I said earlier, prison should not be enjoyable. And even if we tried to make it so, the people inside would still be a bunch of paranoid maniacs ready to stab you for no real reason. Most of the bad things described in the OP were not due to the COs, but by the convicts themselves.
On July 19 2010 10:41 Kurr wrote: So no, I'm not OK with torture. But I am OK with the current prison system. Like I said earlier, prison should not be enjoyable. And even if we tried to make it so, the people inside would still be a bunch of paranoid maniacs ready to stab you for no real reason.
What exactly is the difference between torturing a prisoner physically and torturing/potentially killing a person by putting them in this kind of environment other then this?
Most of the bad things described in the OP were not due to the COs, but by the convicts themselves.
On July 19 2010 10:41 Kurr wrote: So no, I'm not OK with torture. But I am OK with the current prison system. Like I said earlier, prison should not be enjoyable. And even if we tried to make it so, the people inside would still be a bunch of paranoid maniacs ready to stab you for no real reason.
What exactly is the difference between torturing a prisoner physically and torturing/potentially killing a person by putting them in this kind of environment other then this?
Most of the bad things described in the OP were not due to the COs, but by the convicts themselves.
You quoted the answer yourself... What exactly do you suggest? How exactly do you want to change the mindset of the convicts themselves? That is entirely THEIR OWN FAULT. It would cost too much money to remake the prison system and it might not even acheive any desired results if the convicts themselves refuse to change their ways.
Honestly I'm not sure why you're arguing with me. Are you trying to argue that murderers should have a fun time in prison? Fuck them, honestly.
On July 19 2010 10:41 Kurr wrote: So no, I'm not OK with torture. But I am OK with the current prison system. Like I said earlier, prison should not be enjoyable. And even if we tried to make it so, the people inside would still be a bunch of paranoid maniacs ready to stab you for no real reason.
What exactly is the difference between torturing a prisoner physically and torturing/potentially killing a person by putting them in this kind of environment other then this?
Most of the bad things described in the OP were not due to the COs, but by the convicts themselves.
You quoted the answer yourself... What exactly do you suggest? How exactly do you want to change the mindset of the convicts themselves? That is entirely THEIR OWN FAULT. It would cost too much money to remake the prison system and it might not even acheive any desired results if the convicts themselves refuse to change their ways.
Honestly I'm not sure why you're arguing with me. Are you trying to argue that murderers should have a fun time in prison? Fuck them, honestly.
When was I arguing with you? (besides in this post )
It would cost too much money to remake the prison system and it might not even acheive any desired results if the convicts themselves refuse to change their ways.
This is just patently untrue. Theirs a middle ground between giving them little hotel rooms and wiis and what else the fuck not and letting them "rot" in their own filth. Sure its still going to be a shithole, but small services go a long way in prison.
Just assumed you were I guess.
Not really. I'm hardly on board the whole "Lets give Wiis to criminals" thing, but theirs a difference between poor management and luxury treatment.
Thanks for organizing it like that. That is a really great insight of one man's prison experience. I wish I had more to say, but I'm dumbfounded. Trying to soak it all in..
how is everyone debating whether ppl should be chucked into this environment?
its disgraceful. *some* of the people in prison deserve the horrible conditions they are in. but seriously, if you didnt harm anyone while committing your offense, you shouldnt be thrown into a degenerate shithole. the idea of prison itself is that it could rehabilitate the offender and they can rejoin society as a positive and useful member and pay taxes, etc, have a normal life. otherwise we should just be executing everyone who breaks the law and saving billions of $$$ used on prisons for schools and medical.
the reason this guy posted this in the first place was to draw attention to a situation that he felt many people were unaware of, and that he also felt was not acceptable practice within his country. i believe both are valid, and that nearly every citizen of the US is basically unaware of exactly what conditions their fellow americans are being subjected to within their justice system.
imo murderers and rapists have no rights, but for everyone else, ie drug offenses, non-violent crime, weapons offenses not involving attempted murder, assault, etc, you shouldnt have to exist in an environment where you fear for your life.
prison is already privatized for profit. part of the responsibilities of those corporations administering the program should be to ensure the safety of all prisoners, including the violent offenders and sexual predators who dont really deserve it. otherwise joe whitecollar criminal, or freddy the weed dealer, or some 18 year old kid selling crack for a street gang to feed his family are gona end up taking way more punishment than they deserved for the wrongs they committed.
obv you cant keep everyone safe all the time, and people will always get murdered in prison, there will always be drugs in prison, etc, but a much better job could be done than what is currently the standard in most, if not all, major max security prisons on US soil. this guy isnt describing an isolated situation here, his prison is probably on the mean as far as supermax level 5s go. if not better than most.
so for everyone saying they all deserve it, just think how easily u could get set up, or make a mistake while drunk/high, and end up in there. think about how stupid you were when you were 18. think about temptation and risk, and how easily the lines of right and wrong can become blurred. there are plenty of very nice people involved in illegal activities of some sort or another, and they dont deserve the treatment they get from the US federal justice system.
On July 20 2010 15:13 nEAnS wrote: I was trying to find a source on this so I googled it. I've seen other people post on other forums that this story is a troll
I tried to find the source post and also didn't find it. That OP is mesmorizing, though--I almost can't believe someone could pull it out of thin air
well the thing that makes it seem like it must be legit is that he posted before going in, then waited 2 years and posted the story.
I guess it could be a troll, but wow, what a ridiculously elaborate setup to go through. Maybe he needed that two years to twirl his mustache and study up for his big moment.
(I know you're saying there's no source, It's just a joke, you don't need to correct me.)
On July 18 2010 11:58 Batch wrote: First of all I think what you describe is horrible but these gang members wouldn't have done what they did if they wheren't affected by environment. I bet that none of them would do what they did if they where alone and in a different environment.
Since you were a in Iraq then you probably heard of or seen fellow american soldiers doing thing they never would have done at home. The environment we live in shapes us.
How should the gang members get rehabilitated? By moving them from their environment and letting them get a chance to make themselves a better life. Give them prison time as a punishment but avoid cutting their chances to come back into the society.
Ok, find a good way to rehabilitate a people who willingly eat underage rape/murder victims to join a gang of rapists and murderers and Ill go find God and shit out a rainbow while im at it.
Listen, I would agree with you if there was a surefire way to rehabilitate these people. Sure, there are means for rehabilitating certain criminals. Alcoholics and addicts and such people who, in general, have problems with self control can and should be helped. But when it comes to people who knowingly commit such high felonies as murder and rape repeatedly, do you seriously think they can be rehabilitated? Furthermore, there is never a guaranteed way to rehabilitate. Are you willing to risk letting these gang members out again after an attempted rehabilitation? If they regress back to committing felonies, you can bet the general public is going to be outraged at your shortsighted idealism, as they should be. There are so many people in our society who are honest and hardworking citizens, why should we be obligated to spend their tax dollars to the help people might not be curable?
Yes, soldiers in Iraq do things they wouldnt normally do. Should they not be accountable just because theyre in a bad environment? The answer is a resounding NO, simply because there are so many others who are in the same situation who DONT commit those atrocious acts. Furthermore, the analogy is bad because the soldiers are in a warzone while the gangsters are in our civilian environment. If the gangsters do these things in a civilian environment where countless of others around them in the same environment dont need to rape and murder to pass their time, I dont see why people would get teary eyed thinking about these people being locked away for life, or even put on death row. Think if your daughter was one of their victims, would you be saying "Please take these guys away to be rehabilitated and released into the public again"?
The biggest difference is crimes of passion and premeditated crimes. If we were talking about a crime of passion, then I would be more inclined to agree with you that rehabilitation should be the primary goal. The gangsters described here, though, seem to get their jollies from causing pain the innocent girls over and over again. Forget about rehabilitation, they need to be taken out of society. Then you can work towards fixing the environment.
Is it the environment what makes a con, or the cons who make the environment? This needs to be cleared up IMO before any progress can be made on this discussion. Maybe it is a never-ending cycle.
On July 20 2010 21:22 Sarasin wrote: Remember there are multiple reasons that we send people to prison.
1. To remove them from society.
2. To rehabilitate them.
3. To punish them for their crimes.
All I have to say tbh. Some of the arguments in this thread are ridiculous.
this is bullshit. No way you can be rehabilitated by spending time in jail. Simply doesn't work. Those who won't commit more crimes and regret their actions didn't get that way from being in jail. those who are just going to do it again will not change no matter how much jail time they do.
How are you supposed to learn to be a functioning, contributing member of society from being in jail?
On July 20 2010 15:37 bleh wrote: well the thing that makes it seem like it must be legit is that he posted before going in, then waited 2 years and posted the story.
I guess it could be a troll, but wow, what a ridiculously elaborate setup to go through. Maybe he needed that two years to twirl his mustache and study up for his big moment.
(I know you're saying there's no source, It's just a joke, you don't need to correct me.)
imo I think its 99% chance that he went to prison.
But just because he went to prison doesn't mean he didn't embellish the truth :p.
You can't find the original thread cuz its on a chan, their boards delete all inactive threads after a very short amount of time.
Great story. I live around Grand Rapids, so that whole bit adds to it. I can totally see how coming back to Michigan from Australia would drive anyone crazy.
Just sayin', America has some of the highest recidivism rates in the world and most of that is attributed to our horrible justice system and our prisons. We should seriously just copy/paste what some European countries are doing.
[only read first few pages 2 days ago and last 3 today]
I see people talk about rehabilitation and what prisons are for. Sarasin, you are mistaken. Prisons are made solely for punishment. Rehabilitate what? who? how? Some have genuinely made a mistake, some can't live by the rules of society but we treat all offenders the same way(oh yeah unless they're black dudes) even though we can tell them apart quite successfully. Same goes for keeping them away from society, we decide who can come back and who cannot by the crime committed not by their psychology.
Rehabilitation is largely refuted by science(lol having studied psychology I can't say it is truly science!) people have a criminal mind or they don't. Even children. You can spot them easily and there is nothing you can do about it currently, the law says you have to give them a chance even if you could bet money that they will offend within x years. It is wishful thinking at it's finest. In my opinion we need to change the system significantly. Sentences should be very short or not even prison sentences at all regardless of crime, or life for obvious psychos. Tailor them to the criminal, not the crime.
"Rehabilitation is largely refuted by science(lol having studied psychology I can't say it is truly science!) people have a criminal mind or they don't."
Where exactly did you study psychology? On your television? An incredibly small percentage of people who commit crimes do so because their brains don't function normally, or because they have a "criminal mind" as you put it, which in ACTUAL scientific terms is most likely a prefrontal cortex which is underdeveloped or damaged in some way, inhibiting the person's ability to determine correct social behaviour, resulting in Antisocial Personality Disorder.
Most criminals are a product of their social and economic environments, and learned behaviour can absolutely be reversed with the proper treatment (which doesn't involve shoving them in a box with hundreds of murderers).
awesome read, thanks. my roommate from university is currently serving a 2 year sentence in his home country (azerbaijan). hopefully the prisons there are better than the ones they have here :[
Whats with all the vindictive people. No one deserves treatment like that. ( well maybe a few )
But seriously how hard would it be to setup some basic services so prisoners can get an education and a chance of bettering themselves. Besides might give them something to do instead of getting high/wasted.
I do not have the numbers but i bet a lot of those people in prison he was talking about were not born into the best conditions, maybe give them a chance and teach them to do something.
so did homeboy stop posting/answering questions ? direct link to his thread would be good
On July 22 2010 06:37 DevAzTaYtA wrote: awesome read, thanks. my roommate from university is currently serving a 2 year sentence in his home country (azerbaijan). hopefully the prisons there are better than the ones they have here :[
On July 22 2010 08:45 Molkovien wrote: Holy cow, that read made me sick.
Whats with all the vindictive people. No one deserves treatment like that. ( well maybe a few )
But seriously how hard would it be to setup some basic services so prisoners can get an education and a chance of bettering themselves. Besides might give them something to do instead of getting high/wasted.
I do not have the numbers but i bet a lot of those people in prison he was talking about were not born into the best conditions, maybe give them a chance and teach them to do something.
I think the problem with giving the criminals a chance to educate themselves while in prison wouldn't work very well in the US where everyone actually have to pay for their own studies. If they started to provide free education to criminals then there would be a lot of angry reactions.
In countries where you don't have to pay for your education I think this would be a good idea to steer prisoners away from further criminal activities.
for the skeptics who arent 100% sure about the story, can you guys create another thread or something? on the assumption that this is true, its SERIOUSLY rude to question the validity when hes doing us a favor sharing his story. just dont talk about your doubts here imo.
On July 17 2010 20:53 Nightmarjoo wrote: Awesome read. He answered a lot of questions I'd always wondered about prison. I like his thoughts on how drugs never ruin peoples' lives, being sober does.
Too bad thats not true at all. Being sober doesn't mean the addiction, and the effects of withdrawal and NEEDING that next hit, go away, and that clouds your judgment.
Sad, I thought this was really interesting too, but i've googled and it's juste a fake story, like Dream_xero's, everyone thought it was real but it wasn't
On July 23 2010 03:23 Sharkified wrote: Sad, I thought this was really interesting too, but i've googled and it's juste a fake story, like Dream_xero's, everyone thought it was real but it wasn't
Well I just googled that Harry Potter is just a digital fake person that really never exists in the U.K., and thats that.
Without any credibility in what you just said, your post hasn't really shown that this thread is fake. Please bring sources in which you see this prison story as completely made up.
If it really is, damn they sure spent a lot of time trying to go through this.
But I agree with the poster above me saying that we should respect the thread as it is, because we don't know whether its fake or not, and keep our "validity" opinions to ourselves.
The reason people question it is because it looks suspicious.
He claims that 33 murders occurred in his one prison? That's roughly 1.5% of all deaths from ANY cause (suicide, cancer, heart disease, murder, etc.) in all the prisons in the U.S. per year happening in the just the one prison he was incarcerated in and that they were all murders.
Here is the Dept of Justice data for deaths in prison (ALL deaths; cancer, heart disease, suicide, murder, etc.)
• From 2000 through 2007, local jail administrators reported 8,110 inmate deaths in custody. Deaths in jails increased each year, from 905 in 2000 to 1,103 in 2007.
• The mortality rate per 100,000 local jail inmates declined from 152 deaths per 100,000 inmates to 141 per 100,000 between 2000 and 2007, while the jail inmate population increased 31% from 597,226 to 782,592.
• Annually, more than 80% of the nation’s jails reported no deaths in their custody.
• Deaths from any illness, including AIDS, accounted for more than half (53%) of all deaths in local jails.
• Heart disease was the leading cause among illness deaths in local jails (42%).
• Suicide was the single leading cause of unnatural deaths in local jails, accounting for 29% of all jail deaths between 2000 and 2007, but the suicide rate declined from 49 to 36 deaths per 100,000 inmates.
• Between 2000 and 2007, the suicide rates were higher in small jails than large jails. In jails holding 50 or fewer inmates, the suicide rate was 169 per 100,000; in the largest jails, the suicide rate was 27 per 100,000 inmates.
• After adjusting for differences associated with the age, sex, race, and Hispanic origin, suicide was the only cause of death that occurred at a higher rate in local jails than in the U.S. general population.
• After adjusting for differences associated with the age, sex, race, and Hispanic origin, suicide was the only cause of death that occurred at a higher rate in local jails than in the U.S. general population.
I'd imagine theres a world of difference between your average county prison and Supermax :/.
The story has some holes in it, wasn't expecting it to be true after that passage with OP and his cellmate taking shots of MDMA thinking it was heroin and then giving each other blowjobs. And the way he speaks about himself getting raped wasn't convincing. Somehow he is well respected towards the end yet he was raped? Doesn't add up at all.
• After adjusting for differences associated with the age, sex, race, and Hispanic origin, suicide was the only cause of death that occurred at a higher rate in local jails than in the U.S. general population.
I'd imagine theres a world of difference between your average county prison and Supermax :/.
• After adjusting for differences associated with the age, sex, race, and Hispanic origin, suicide was the only cause of death that occurred at a higher rate in local jails than in the U.S. general population.
I'd imagine theres a world of difference between your average county prison and Supermax :/.
He wasn't at a "Supermax". That's a Federal Prison system "jail". [EDIT: I was wrong. There is only one Fed Supermax but several states have prisons called supermax. Michigan has only one at Iona per Wikipedia.]
Fed jails by most accounts do tend to be safer and cleaner then the average state/county/local prison. He was at a Michigan state prison.
This is by the DOJ, local means "not Federal" I believe. Anyway this link below to the above doc [Mortality In Local Jails, 2000-2007] states that the "Estimates and mortality rates for the top 50 jail jurisdictions in the United States are also presented". The Michigan state prison system is certainly in the top 50 'jail jurisdictions' in the country if not the top 5 or 6 and the figures are inclusive of the Michigan system.
Wow. I feel like I just read a really good short story. I mean, I know the story isn't short, but I'm not sure if it's long enough to call a novella.
If this is real, this guy should really write a book. I liked his writing style, and he said some really profound things.
Hell, even if it ISN'T real/a true story, this guy should be a professional writer. Turn this into a book and profit instead of just writing it for free online!
I cant help but put a Starcraft perspective to this guys story. Before he entered prison SC2 had just been announced the year before. When he finally came out the game still hadn't been released. :D
On July 22 2010 12:48 JiYan wrote: for the skeptics who arent 100% sure about the story, can you guys create another thread or something? on the assumption that this is true, its SERIOUSLY rude to question the validity when hes doing us a favor sharing his story. just dont talk about your doubts here imo.
Although the OP didn't mention it, this story was obviously posted on an imageboard that clearly states that most content there is, most likely, fiction.
Regardless of how some things add or don't add up, this fact alone is enough to establish the premises that the story is in fact not real (not saying that it actually is or isn't).
While this may seem like a bump - it is to provide context. It seems that quite a few people are wondering the same thing. Is the prison system really just? The Economist, which is not exactly 'some blog', seems to be concerned about the current state of affairs as well.
Dunno about his story. My feel for max sec state prison is via the book "fish."
Book is about a 17-year old gay white kid who ended up being tried as an adult (had a felony; aggravated burglary) and got stuck in max prison for 2 years during control hold. The kid is actually the writer who came out with the story some couple decades after the incident. Needless to say he got raped countless times during his first night, almost got killed, then subsequently was coin flipped to see who would be his "man" for protection. Pretty fucked up...
But that was the 80's. Things have gotten a bit better since then..a bit...
On July 23 2010 08:46 News wrote: The story has some holes in it, wasn't expecting it to be true after that passage with OP and his cellmate taking shots of MDMA thinking it was heroin and then giving each other blowjobs. And the way he speaks about himself getting raped wasn't convincing. Somehow he is well respected towards the end yet he was raped? Doesn't add up at all.
Y'know, I think rape in prison, if it doesn't happen by far that much as the pmita prison meme makes believe, is a lot easier to take than rape in a 'free environment'. Psychologically, being in prison, you know being raped is a risk, and being raped doesn't change that feeling much anymore (relatively). You're in the constant state of paranoia already.
When you're free and think you are standing firm in your shoes, have a good life and feel secure, being raped takes that feeling of freedom and safety away, which is devastating. (And the physical pain of being raped? Well, that sucks but that's very temporary.)
To me, that part of the story really does 'click' for me.
^^ Rape in prison is more than just taking away your personal space and safety. There isn't much that you own in prison, but "manhood" is something that a person is expected to protect. If you are raped, you lose this which pretty much makes you fodder for other guys who want to find someone to fuck. You are expected to protect your "manhood" so when he said he was raped only once...that left me in a bit of doubt. You don't just get raped once in prison. Especially if it was to some small guy with a pencil dick (which is what I think happened).
Raping someone in prison signifies ownership and bumps up the rapists prison social value by a little bit. It's contrary to what you might expect since actual "rapists" are pretty low on the ladder in terms of what convicts find as acceptable crimes to commit.
On July 28 2010 08:45 lvatural wrote: ^^ Rape in prison is more than just taking away your personal space and safety. There isn't much that you own in prison, but "manhood" is something that a person is expected to protect. If you are raped, you lose this which pretty much makes you fodder for other guys who want to find someone to fuck. You are expected to protect your "manhood" so when he said he was raped only once...that left me in a bit of doubt. You don't just get raped once in prison. Especially if it was to some small guy with a pencil dick (which is what I think happened).
Raping someone in prison signifies ownership and bumps up the rapists prison social value by a little bit. It's contrary to what you might expect since actual "rapists" are pretty low on the ladder in terms of what convicts find as acceptable crimes to commit.
If your story is true, then you'd find that everyone in prison could be viewed as a possible rapist. Everyone's in for some higher status. The original story mentions that quite a low percentage of prisoners were into rape. I'm not saying I know the real deal, but the whole rape-for-status idea is at least represented on tv series / movies. Original story mentions the skewed image that most television programs give, perhaps this is an example.
Edit: ah you wrote about that book Yeah well I make up my mind from this guy's story. the 80's were different, I have no idea how different though.
On July 23 2010 08:46 News wrote: The story has some holes in it, wasn't expecting it to be true after that passage with OP and his cellmate taking shots of MDMA thinking it was heroin and then giving each other blowjobs. And the way he speaks about himself getting raped wasn't convincing. Somehow he is well respected towards the end yet he was raped? Doesn't add up at all.
Y'know, I think rape in prison, if it doesn't happen by far that much as the pmita prison meme makes believe, is a lot easier to take than rape in a 'free environment'. Psychologically, being in prison, you know being raped is a risk, and being raped doesn't change that feeling much anymore (relatively). You're in the constant state of paranoia already.
When you're free and think you are standing firm in your shoes, have a good life and feel secure, being raped takes that feeling of freedom and safety away, which is devastating. (And the physical pain of being raped? Well, that sucks but that's very temporary.)
To me, that part of the story really does 'click' for me.
A junkie wouldn't ever, ever take MDMA thinking it was heroin.
I can't really say much about this... took me about 2 hours to read it all while i was at work (didn't read the whole time ofc).
That was a sick story, and it makes me really happy to be living in sweden (our jails is a joke), although, i'm not planning on doing any crimes anyways lol.
On July 22 2010 12:48 JiYan wrote: for the skeptics who arent 100% sure about the story, can you guys create another thread or something? on the assumption that this is true, its SERIOUSLY rude to question the validity when hes doing us a favor sharing his story. just dont talk about your doubts here imo.
Although the OP didn't mention it, this story was obviously posted on an imageboard that clearly states that most content there is, most likely, fiction.
Regardless of how some things add or don't add up, this fact alone is enough to establish the premises that the story is in fact not real (not saying that it actually is or isn't).
Yes well anyone that goes to that imageboard for long enough starts to develop a very accurate bullshit-o-meter.
On July 29 2010 04:58 xiZE wrote: I can't really say much about this... took me about 2 hours to read it all while i was at work (didn't read the whole time ofc).
That was a sick story, and it makes me really happy to be living in sweden (our jails is a joke), although, i'm not planning on doing any crimes anyways lol.
I'd rather have the prisons we have here in Sweden rather than the one described in the op. (Not saying there aren't a lot of things wrong with them though)
On July 29 2010 04:58 xiZE wrote: I can't really say much about this... took me about 2 hours to read it all while i was at work (didn't read the whole time ofc).
That was a sick story, and it makes me really happy to be living in sweden (our jails is a joke), although, i'm not planning on doing any crimes anyways lol.
I'd rather have the prisons we have here in Sweden rather than the one described in the op. (Not saying there aren't a lot of things wrong with them though)
that was my point :p that our prisons in sweden suck, they are a joke. I didn't mean i'd rather do time in USA, my point was just that if OP was to do time in sweden now (after he's been in jail in USA), he'd laugh hes ass off :p
Amazing and disturbing, this guy should seriously consider writing a book about it, would probably sell he's got a gift and a wealth of shitty experiences.
This shit is intense... almost wish I hadn't read it -_-
When I think about young kids that get sent to jail over really stupid laws, or drugs, or stupid judges, etc, it makes it all the more retarded and absurd having read this
For once I agree with orb.... It's very intense, and also very long. Now back to reading refined literature >.>
The American goverment, are they retarded or what? You should go too prison for rehab, not make the person a barbarian. Im glad we in Norway have prisons that are like an elder peoples home (NOT kidding, saw a rapist on the store the other day, escorted by two guys). It's something they are trying out here, some sort of care center for law breakers like rapists. And I support this. Last thing we need is going towards the direction of something like the shit in America.
Funny thing is I watched Burn Notice this week and Michael Westen goes to prison as part of the B plot. They had the cliche huge muscled dudes, gang control, and people weight lifting like crazy. This thread made me go 'lawl fake'.
Very good read. Was able to finish a portion before going to bed and cover the rest after waking up. While he said he might exaggerate at times a lot is readily believable. Very recommended read.
On August 17 2010 21:27 garmule2 wrote: Funny thing is I watched Burn Notice this week and Michael Westen goes to prison as part of the B plot. They had the cliche huge muscled dudes, gang control, and people weight lifting like crazy. This thread made me go 'lawl fake'.
? They do have those things in prisons. Go watch Louis Theroux Behind the Bars. Good documentary about San Quetin Prison. You do see people segregating themselves by color, people with lots of tattoos, and working out. It's not all fake.
Incredible read. I don't even know what to say about it, your prisosn really are fucking awful. I've talkted to a few ex convicts here and while it's not the hotel some make it out to be, according to them it's at least habitable. The main problem for them was the fact that you weren't free, drugs, rape, murder wasn't an issue.
i am NEVER EVER gonna download anything illegal again!
read through everything - man, what i thought i knew about prison-life and what it really is... i hope the guy gets a job, meets his daughter and never takes a single step inside a prison again.
I saw 12 deaths inside. Three of them were at the hands of screws. One of those was a gunshot to the head while a guy was trying to escape. The other two were beatings, and I didn't know they'd died until later. It's not right to call a prison shanking a 'stabbing' because that's not how you die. Inside, we called it 'digging a hole' or 'digging a well' like 'he got a well dug in him' or 'pulled out a hole'. The reason for this is the make shift weapons used inside are not easy to kill with. You basically make a hole as fast as you can, by stabbing as fast as you can, and then you try and get a grip inside it and just start pulling. I saw this right up close one time. I had the distinct misfortune of having my cell behind a pillar, like a bulkhead kind of thing in the middle of the block. So if you wanted to shank someone, it was a great place to hide. On the flip side, it meant the boss' gave it a lot of extra attention, which was bad for rubbing one out or taking a hit. Two guys were loitering around the pillar one day, waiting for this fresh kid to wander past. Prison gossip said he's been worked over on his first night by someone who wanted him for a wife, but the kid fought back and nearly bit some fucker's nuts off. So his friends wait with a t-shirt, and a filed down toothbrush. They've cracked down on plastic toothbrushes, but there used to be enough of them that a lot of guys have them stashed away. You can file down the ends on the concrete to a point. One guy wraped a t-shirt around the kid's neck and lifted him off the ground from behind, and the other starts stabbing his gut. After a few stabs, he starts trying to get his fingers inside and he just pulls all this meat out. I thought he was going to pull out his intestines like you'd see in a horror movie, but instead, he just pulls out fist after fist of this yellow jelly shit, and then big hunks of meat like raw mince. Screw's arrived and tasered everyone. Even the kid. He was on his side, right in front of my cell, and every jolt from the taser made the big hole in his stomach smoke.
You don't see something like that and not have it fuck you up worse than you already were for being incarcerated.
holy fucking shit. that's all I can say right now.
Wowz.. after reading this.. I thought about dutch prison and the penal system. Maybe it's not that bad..
Then I wanted to read starcraft en day9's stuff on the webz.. But I can't.. my mind is distracted.. Not going to sleep after reading this btw.. that shit is freaky.
american prison seems so inhumane man, the worst thing is the whole christian holier-than-thou attitude in the states makes it pretty unlikely to see any improvement in the next decade or so...
On August 19 2010 23:23 Stoume wrote: Wow, I was just gonna skim through it but ended up reading the entire thing. Really making me think about things I take for granted.
I'm with you man. I was seriously just going to skim through it but the first paragraph just locked me in.
On August 20 2010 00:47 m3rciless wrote: I always post about starcraft on 99 and get totally ignored. What the shit is this now?
You gotta learn to keep the two separated. I always ignore any Starcraft threads on 99.
By the way, this was written by some guy living in Australia who had never even been to the states - please, let's try to keep the troll content to a minimum on TL.
where was he incarcerated? My homie did time in KSP and he painted me a different picture. Mostly whites and hispanics and there wouldn't be anyway a rapist would be makin any sort of money on the yard or in the block.
Also I wonder why he was in the same cell block as petty weed dealers and rapists? Administrative Segregation? Was he a snitch before he got locked up? Most rapists don't stay in Gen pop unless they are affiliated, so I guess that takes care of his dealer right? Cause if he was buyin from a rapist who wouldn't be selling without affiliation he wouldn't be beaten by the AB right? Just curious and trying to find out if the dude rolled, or is bsing it all. I mean he could just be bored and have watched a complete season of Lock-Up Raw?
very interesting read, but I was disappointed how at the end he seemed like he wouldn't mind robbing again? At first I thought he was joking, but I guess not. That's kinda depressing, I would've thought with all of the introspection he wouldn't have even given it a thought.
An archive of a thread from SA (no longer viewable to non-members) about the United States penal system. Unfortunately, the posts are not in chronological order so the archive looks a little incoherent. TLDR; it's fucked up and there's an incredibly powerful political-industrial complex in the US generating profit from essentially running gulags filled with America's poor. Named after a (really good) book on the same topic.
Ummmmmm, am I the only one who noticed that this "American" prisoner uses decidedly British English at times? From the excessive use of "cunts" as his go-to pejorative to his later gigantic slip of referring to a stroller as a "pram." It's also notable that he consistently uses British-style punctuation with quotation marks. American standards demand that punctuation be contained within quotation marks; British standards demand it be placed outside. It is a subtle difference that people don't often think about. Given these three language shifts (I was actually really engrossed in the story until I read the part about the pram and didn't really read very critically as a result), I'm calling flame. Great, entertaining, elaborate flame, but it's really hard to reconcile those language points in context. I suppose the Australian time abroad will be the counter argument. But I'm skeptical.
EDIT: Upon further reflection, the general lack of mention of hispanics makes this seem more like a European caricature of the American prison system, too.
While this was interesting, the fact that it was likely all built on a total fantasy is somewhat disappointing. Makes me wish I hadn't wasted my time reading what was probably the amused imagination of someone who's never been to prison and used Oz and The Wire as their main source material .
On October 18 2010 07:50 Subversive wrote: While this was interesting, the fact that it was likely all built on a total fantasy is somewhat disappointing. Makes me wish I hadn't wasted my time reading what was probably the amused imagination of someone who's never been to prison and used Oz and The Wire as their main source material .
On October 15 2010 10:09 DminusTerran wrote: I've read this thread and really enjoyed it, but still every time I see it in the side bar I think it's going to be about Savior.
On October 18 2010 07:50 Subversive wrote: While this was interesting, the fact that it was likely all built on a total fantasy is somewhat disappointing. Makes me wish I hadn't wasted my time reading what was probably the amused imagination of someone who's never been to prison and used Oz and The Wire as their main source material .
so its confirmed that this is fake?
No not confirmed. But go back a page or two and follow the links of where it's appearing all over the net. The reddit link's comments poke massive holes all through the story. I'm a pretty naive and gullible person at the best of times, I'm still sort of surprised I missed all the inconsistencies. Even more surprised others did. That's comforting at least ^^.
On October 17 2010 03:48 theHisO wrote: Ummmmmm, am I the only one who noticed that this "American" prisoner uses decidedly British English at times? From the excessive use of "cunts" as his go-to pejorative to his later gigantic slip of referring to a stroller as a "pram." It's also notable that he consistently uses British-style punctuation with quotation marks. American standards demand that punctuation be contained within quotation marks; British standards demand it be placed outside. It is a subtle difference that people don't often think about. Given these three language shifts (I was actually really engrossed in the story until I read the part about the pram and didn't really read very critically as a result), I'm calling flame. Great, entertaining, elaborate flame, but it's really hard to reconcile those language points in context. I suppose the Australian time abroad will be the counter argument. But I'm skeptical.
EDIT: Upon further reflection, the general lack of mention of hispanics makes this seem more like a European caricature of the American prison system, too.
Wow, that read was incredible. Such an amazing story.. I really hope he can do bigger and better things with his life. Such crazy insight in to prison, wow.. I'm never gonna commit a crime, seriously.
Writer is amazing and the way its formatted is like i can visualize these "interviews/questions" as there been said thats how good this style/format is. Really great read and i hope the OP will update and continue to add onto thread from what the guys story is.
But keep in mind, this guy was in supermax. I'm not going to test the legal system, but chances are I should be safe from going to a prison where I'm either locked in a dark room for a week or be gutted like a fish on day 2.
On October 17 2010 03:48 theHisO wrote: Ummmmmm, am I the only one who noticed that this "American" prisoner uses decidedly British English at times? From the excessive use of "cunts" as his go-to pejorative to his later gigantic slip of referring to a stroller as a "pram." It's also notable that he consistently uses British-style punctuation with quotation marks. American standards demand that punctuation be contained within quotation marks; British standards demand it be placed outside. It is a subtle difference that people don't often think about. Given these three language shifts (I was actually really engrossed in the story until I read the part about the pram and didn't really read very critically as a result), I'm calling flame. Great, entertaining, elaborate flame, but it's really hard to reconcile those language points in context. I suppose the Australian time abroad will be the counter argument. But I'm skeptical.
EDIT: Upon further reflection, the general lack of mention of hispanics makes this seem more like a European caricature of the American prison system, too.
american prison != american prisoner <_<..
I'm fairly sure that it somewhere states that he lived in Australia for a long period of time. I read this a long time ago, so I don't remember where though.
EDIT: I think he started going to college there? I'm not sure, someone back me up or call bullshit.
On October 17 2010 03:48 theHisO wrote: Ummmmmm, am I the only one who noticed that this "American" prisoner uses decidedly British English at times? From the excessive use of "cunts" as his go-to pejorative to his later gigantic slip of referring to a stroller as a "pram." It's also notable that he consistently uses British-style punctuation with quotation marks. American standards demand that punctuation be contained within quotation marks; British standards demand it be placed outside. It is a subtle difference that people don't often think about. Given these three language shifts (I was actually really engrossed in the story until I read the part about the pram and didn't really read very critically as a result), I'm calling flame. Great, entertaining, elaborate flame, but it's really hard to reconcile those language points in context. I suppose the Australian time abroad will be the counter argument. But I'm skeptical.
EDIT: Upon further reflection, the general lack of mention of hispanics makes this seem more like a European caricature of the American prison system, too.
american prison != american prisoner <_<..
I'm fairly sure that it somewhere states that he lived in Australia for a long period of time. I read this a long time ago, so I don't remember where though.
EDIT: I think he started going to college there? I'm not sure, someone back me up or call bullshit.
I can't believe I missed this before, it was an awesome read. And yeah, he went to school in Australia, mentioned how it was close to the beach.
Good read, thank you to the guy who bumped this one.
So, a question: Has anyone read any "edgey" Biographies lately that are this good? I don't care if this is fake or not, I want to read a 400+ page book as good as this 6 page equivalent.
The discussions about whether the story is real or not is almost as interesting as the story itself. It's a fascinating read though, no matter if fake or real.
Crazy story :/. The worst thing about going to prison, is that the crime you commit will follow you for the rest of your life. You're basically going from Especially armed robbery, there's no chance they'd let him near even just a lowly register job.
Anyways, by now hopefully he's gotten out of the country.
Sounds like I never want to jail. But I know the feeling that you want to test yourself by wanting something serious to happen (a loved one die, a suicide in front of you, something like that). Then he said that you should be happy with the little things, don't think I'll be able to, but I do know I don't ever want to go to prison (However, prison in the Netherlands is probably less bad).
Its a sad life when you are locked up. The saddest part about all of this is that prison is just the vacation before the real sentence begins.
I stand by the logic that if you do the crime you do the time.
The problem that is faced though is that once you do commit the crime you will pay for the rest of your life. I have been unemployed for almost 2 years now. I can not find a job. I have gotten to the point of being hired till the background check comes back. I am not applying to run the country or to take care of your money. I mean EVERYWHERE does background checks now. I mea the internet makes it that a measly $10 can find all the information on someone. Why not do it?
To top it off some places even do checks before you move into places and can deny you no matter the charge.
It is almost like they want you to go back for fear of losing their jobs or something. idk
I guess its way of America imposing a Death sentence without actually killing the person. Its a fate worse then death for its a long painful very slow death.
I guess I should have never done the crime to start with but sometimes you do not see the scope of what you really are doing and how you will really have to pay for these crimes.
I do not feel anyone is innocent, there are just the ones that got caught and those that did not.
On October 19 2010 04:48 SeriousPaul wrote: Point by point this guy is a liar, and clearly has never been incarcerated.
i dont think that guyyou read it very well. most of his counter-points arent really counter points at all. like he said "tasers dont make holes in people" which is true but if he actually read the story better he would of read that the guy already had a hole in him before getting tasered.
On October 19 2010 05:15 SeriousPaul wrote: Just so we know, real prison is not a nice place. Rape, assault, and more is a common place occurrence. Staff dislike the conditions almost as much as the convicts do-only an idiot wants prison to be a hell hole. Most prisoners come home in 60 months, that's 5 years. Who do you want coming home to a neighborhood near you? A convict who's been treated like an animal, who's coming home to murder, rape and pillage? Or a productive member of society?
It's absolutely true that the every state in the United States has problems with their prison systems, but this guy has clearly never been incarcerated.
please keep your comments in one post..... this isnt that site u came from where u can post one every two mins it gets+ Show Spoiler +
On October 19 2010 04:48 SeriousPaul wrote: Point by point this guy is a liar, and clearly has never been incarcerated.
I find it difficult to believe that this guy made a post 2 years ago saying he's going to prison and then comes back 2 years later to detail his experience. Hell, It's hard for me to remember exactly what I posted even a month ago.
That said, he might be embellishing in his story or something. In either case it was still a very good read and really made me appreciate the things I have here.
EDIT:
On October 19 2010 07:02 SeriousPaul wrote: Why? If it's just for your convenience then go fuck yourself.
This isn't the same kind of forum you came from. People are expected to post respectfully and constructively. Spamming the thread is neither.
Anyways, the moderation here is very strict and you'll probably get banned, but unless you actually care about starcraft it probably doesn't matter to you.
On October 19 2010 07:02 SeriousPaul wrote: Why? If it's just for your convenience then go fuck yourself.
How about if it's for everyone's convenience? Keep your aggressive comments like this to yourself, noone wants a flame war. Regardless of whether or not you think it's real, it's an interesting read, leave it at that.
On October 19 2010 05:14 AoN.DimSum wrote: aw I thought this was real too btw how do you know this stuff seriouspaul?
I have worked inside a prison as a Corrections Officer for more than a decade. I have experience in several security level settings, and am active in making my work place a better environment.
I haven't done enough investigation into the matter to be able to say that the OP's story is true, however, you have just as much credibility as he does on this forum.
We don't know you, and frankly, I'm sure you have some bias being on the "other team."
On October 19 2010 07:31 SeriousPaul wrote: I give a fuck about the moderation.
On October 19 2010 07:22 opsayo wrote: serious paul i will miss you and your seriousness
the moderation here is not kind
It's hard to report someone when others are so quick on the draw. God I love these forums.
On a separate note, I know it's been asked before, but the thread kind of got sidetracked by this big mess. Anyone know if this guy ever updated again?
On October 19 2010 07:02 SeriousPaul wrote: Why? If it's just for your convenience then go fuck yourself.
How about if it's for everyone's convenience? Keep your aggressive comments like this to yourself, noone wants a flame war. Regardless of whether or not you think it's real, it's an interesting read, leave it at that.
It's bullshit, whether it's interesting or not. I could care less what the moderation does. I have nothing invested in this board, as such don't care whether they ban me. Dude is a liar, regardless of what douche bags think of me. None of you are trying to kill me, or set me on fire as such I could fucking care less. Come walk a mile in my shoes, and see how you hold up.
It's a shame because no matter how insightful you might be into the matter your posts might just be deleted at this point.
On October 19 2010 07:02 SeriousPaul wrote: Why? If it's just for your convenience then go fuck yourself.
How about if it's for everyone's convenience? Keep your aggressive comments like this to yourself, noone wants a flame war. Regardless of whether or not you think it's real, it's an interesting read, leave it at that.
It's bullshit, whether it's interesting or not. I could care less what the moderation does. I have nothing invested in this board, as such don't care whether they ban me. Dude is a liar, regardless of what douche bags think of me. None of you are trying to kill me, or set me on fire as such I could fucking care less. Come walk a mile in my shoes, and see how you hold up.
I'm going to assume that you actually value your time. I'm also going to assume that you created an account, and posted your thought in an effort to give others here another perspective.
However, since you seem to lack common sense, you have successfully wasted your time and failed to convince anyone because now you just sound like a rambling maniac more concerned with forum moderation than the topic at hand.
On October 19 2010 07:37 Hakker wrote: It's a shame because no matter how insightful you might be into the matter your posts might just be deleted at this point.
^Agreed.
Any netizen sleuths out there willing to track this down further?
A few of my family members have been to California state prison. They say it's not as bad as in the movies. They likened it to being in a little city. If you look at most cities, they are already semi-divided by race. California system is ganged out, as in everyone is in a gang so people rarely cross the 'color line' .They told me that the notion that everyone rapes everyone is ridiculous and that most victims are teenagers and most perpetrators are in their early 20's who have been in prison since they were juveniles and haven't had much contact with women. They also said victims of rape often become rapists themselves oddly enough. Someone also told me you're more likely to be sexually assaulted in Juvie than in the pen in most cases.
On October 19 2010 08:59 Warrior Madness wrote: It's a shame that this is probably fake. Still a great cautionary tale that I'd save for my kids.
Personally I believe the man's story. There is too much detail for it to be a complete fabrication. He said himself that he may have been exaggerating in some places.
Btw, can anyone provide a link to the source thread?
It's a great read which enjoyed but it isn't a true story. It's clearly a work of fiction in the same way Shawshank Redemption was a work of fiction written by Stephen King. Stephen King was never incarcerated but he still wrote an accurate tale depicting life in prison. How did he do it you cry? He researched it like any writer researchers his subject matter. The internet is full of information about prison, libraries (what them?) are full of books on the subject and the cinemas and DVD stores are full of movies about them also. Two years is not considered a long stretch. Certainly not long enough for him to have experienced even half of the things he has said he has done. The character he has created just doesn't make any sense, as a human being he is just too unbelievable and is absolutely riddled with contradiction. He writes off these contradictions by always blaming it on the drugs. Handy that. The biggest give away for me and this is a massive gaping hole in the story and he brushes it over very quickly because he doesn't know how to broach it is the section when he recalls his homosexual encounters. I strong heterosexual man, like this writer claims to be, would not be fucking and blowing off other men after just a year in prison. Just a year!!!! That is absolutely ridiculous and completely refutable. This heterosexual prisoner was so horny on MDMA he sucked off his cell mate! That is utter nonsense and it made me laugh out loud. That is pure comedy. When he wrote that the credibility of this story went right out the window. Come on people, wake up will you. Don't be so gullible. This is the sort of shit Irvine Welsh writes for breakfast. If you want a decent account of prison read 'Pimp' by Iceberg Slim.
this was quite a interesting read. definitely something that most people would stop and reflect on their lives and what they are doing with it when their done reading the incredibly long post.
On October 19 2010 05:14 AoN.DimSum wrote: aw I thought this was real too btw how do you know this stuff seriouspaul?
I have worked inside a prison as a Corrections Officer for more than a decade. I have experience in several security level settings, and am active in making my work place a better environment.
aw too bad u didnt list your "corrections officer ID number" guess that means ur lying =]
Point is - It's easy to talk shit when the author is no where to refute you
Wow, what an amazing(and quite sad) story, mad props to the original OP for sharing and telling it like it is, and big hi-5 to this threads OP, thanks for sharing. i believe it.
Very good read. It caught my eye because I spent two years in Minnesota prison about 15 years ago. I won’t go into the details of the crime I committed but it wasn’t a crime of violence.
All I can say is that the author had a very different prison experience than I. I only heard of one rape while I was in and only witnessed two fights, both of which ended very quickly with no real injuries to the parties involved.
I spent my first year and a half at Stillwater state prison, a prison built in 1902 and very similar to the prison depicted in the movie Shawshank Redemption. It is what is called a closed custody facility, second in security classification only to the super max prison at Oak Park Heights.
The other closed custody prison in Minnesota is in St. Cloud. Generally, inmates under 25 years of age are sent to St. Cloud. It has the nickname of gladiator school.
Stillwater prison had adopted a “controlled movement” environment a few years before I arrived. Prior to that, inmates were allowed free movement throughout the prison between counts.
Controlled movement greatly reduced the potential for violence and the amount of contraband in the prison. Basically, it separates the hardcore convicts from the rest of the population.
Before controlled movement, inmate hierarchy ruled the prison. The prison was divided into groups along racial lines and it was the worse of the worst convicts who essentially ran the prison. Chow time, yard time, the area of the yard, and what job an inmate could have were all based on what group he belonged to and his standing in that particular group.
Protective custody or PC was for inmates, mostly sex offenders, who were unable to assimilate into a group. These inmates would be preyed upon if kept in general population.
Contraband was rampant and the source of much of the violence. It was much more common for violence to occur within a particular group rather than between members of separate groups.
Controlled movement was implemented as a way for administration to take back the prison. The concept is to separate the relatively small core of troublesome inmates from the vast majority of inmates who just want to do their time in peace.
Here’s how controlled movement worked at Stillwater:
There are five cell blocks at Stillwater. “A West” and “B East” are for good behavior inmates that work or are enrolled in educational programs. “A East” is a transitional block that houses inmates short term who are entering or leaving the facility or are transferring between blocks.
“B West” was nicknamed the “wild, wild west”. That conditions in that block were likely the most similar to those described by the author. This is where the hardcore convicts were housed, I never had contact with any B West inmate during my time at Stillwater. B West was essentially a prison within a prison.
Then there was D Block which was also called the Honor block. That block housed inmates with long sentences who had exhibited good behavior over a long period of time. They enjoy many special privileges such as personal coffee makers and refrigerators.
“SEC” was a separate housing unit for sex offenders completely segregated from the rest of the prison. It was a voluntary treatment unit and not all sex offenders were housed there. But most sex offenders tried to get into SEC as soon as possible.
After a month in A West, I was housed in the “dorm”, an overflow facility in an old building outside the main prison but on the prison grounds. Only the lowest risk inmates were housed there. It was as the name implies, a large open dormitory filled with bunk beds that housed about 60-80 inmates.
Nobody wanted to go to the dorm because the living conditions were truly awful. Freezing cold in the winter and unbearably hot in the summer. The building leaked like crazy when it rained, the plumbing was bad and the building had a damp musky smell.
Absolutely no privacy whatsoever. No stalls around the toilets. One TV for everyone and no personal radios. I would have much rather been housed in A West or B East block where I could have my own cell with a TV and a toilet.
It’s ironic that the SEC unit for sex offenders was arguably the best housing unit as it was brand new building with air conditioning. SEC inmates were not required to work and were actually paid to participate in sex offender treatment.
They were served meals inside the unit. I could see the yard from the dorm and when each of the other blocks were let out into the yard, it was packed full. Then SEC would go the yard and with about a third as many inmates have the whole place to themselves.
I was considered one of the lowest risk, non-violent inmates yet I was housed in worst conditions. And we had to share our yard time with A East. The only benefit to the dorm was that we went to chow hall alone and didn’t have to wait in line and had more time to eat.
I worked 30 hours a week making bird feeders at 75 cents an hour. Along with the yard that is the only time I was with other inmates other than my fellow inmates housed in the dorm. Believe it or not, in the shop we had access to all sorts of tools and even panes of glass used for the bird feeders.
Working in “industry” was a privilege and some inmates with years and years of seniority made as much as $3 a hour. The foreman in my shop was a an arsonist who started a fire that killed five people.
Rumor was that he had accumulated over $30,000 in savings. While $3 a hour might not seem like much, I guess it adds up after a few decades.
I was transferred to a CD treatment program at a medium security prison in Lino Lakes for the final six months of my sentence.
That was like summer camp. Great recreational facilities. The housing units were called cottages and we could BBQ and grow vegetable gardens. We were allowed to go the huge yard (with several big old oak trees) or library anytime we weren’t in treatment classes or meetings. We played softball and had pool tables, ping pong tables, and Nintendo.
I was paid $1.25 an hour, 30 hours a week to participate in treatment so I had plenty of money for anything I needed from the commissary. I had my own cell with my own TV, a personal CD player and basic cable.
We were even allowed to have money from our account, $10 a week which we could use in the soda and candy machines in each cottage. Each cottage had a complete kitchen and we could buy food from the commissary and cook it in the kitchen if we wished. But I always went to the chow hall because the food was pretty good.
Each cottage also had a pizza night once a month where we could order in pizza from Dominoes or Pizza Hut. Of course, we had to pay for it from our account.
This might sound strange but it was one of the best times of my life. I can remember going for a early morning run in the yard and thinking, “I’ve only got four months left” and feeling euphoric.
As the warden said once, “Inmates come to prison as punishment, not for punishment”. That was certainly the philosophy at Lino. Sorry if my tale isn’t quite as gripping but that’s how it was for me. By the way, I haven’t been back.
I believe most of what the author wrote. In CD treatment, everyone has to tell their life story and I heard many similar accounts of prison life from other inmates. But usually they were talking about prison conditions years ago and this was in 1995.
However, one guy talked about his time in a Illinois prison that sounded very much like what the author wrote and that was in the late eighties, early nineties.
The way the author described the psychological effects and the mentality of everyday prison life sent shivers down my spine. The guy had to have done time to talk about it like that. I couldn’t put into words like he did but he described it almost perfectly.
When he spoke about lockdown being like a camp out and stocking up, I knew he had done time because that’s exactly what’s it’s like. Only someone who had done time would know that.
What I don’t believe is that COs were able to beat to death inmates and get away with it. I just can’t see how that could happen in any way in today’s prison system. Everything is on camera, corner’s reports, non lethal methods of restraint. Just couldn’t happen without everyone from the state commissioner of corrections on down covering it up.
Hey, Marginal Revolution picked up on this one. Never thought I'd see TL cited in an econblog, and certainly not for something like this.
I wish SeriousPaul hadn't got himself banned so fast since it seems like he had a legitimate point about this all being fake. The smoking gun seems to be that Michigan correctional facilities don't allow for tasers, if you'll pardon the tasteless pun. Of course, it's entirely possible that he fabricated his location for the sake of anonymity, but a few other things struck me as false as well, most notably his heroin addiction 'not being a problem' which is almost certainly horseshit.
It's a massive shame if it is fake, since it's a damn well-written story.
On October 22 2010 01:19 BillyJack wrote: Very good read. It caught my eye because I spent two years in Minnesota prison about 15 years ago. I won’t go into the details of the crime I committed but it wasn’t a crime of violence.
All I can say is that the author had a very different prison experience than I. I only heard of one rape while I was in and only witnessed two fights, both of which ended very quickly with no real injuries to the parties involved.
I spent my first year and a half at Stillwater state prison, a prison built in 1902 and very similar to the prison depicted in the movie Shawshank Redemption. It is what is called a closed custody facility, second in security classification only to the super max prison at Oak Park Heights.
The other closed custody prison in Minnesota is in St. Cloud. Generally, inmates under 25 years of age are sent to St. Cloud. It has the nickname of gladiator school.
Stillwater prison had adopted a “controlled movement” environment a few years before I arrived. Prior to that, inmates were allowed free movement throughout the prison between counts.
Controlled movement greatly reduced the potential for violence and the amount of contraband in the prison. Basically, it separates the hardcore convicts from the rest of the population.
Before controlled movement, inmate hierarchy ruled the prison. The prison was divided into groups along racial lines and it was the worse of the worst convicts who essentially ran the prison. Chow time, yard time, the area of the yard, and what job an inmate could have were all based on what group he belonged to and his standing in that particular group.
Protective custody or PC was for inmates, mostly sex offenders, who were unable to assimilate into a group. These inmates would be preyed upon if kept in general population.
Contraband was rampant and the source of much of the violence. It was much more common for violence to occur within a particular group rather than between members of separate groups.
Controlled movement was implemented as a way for administration to take back the prison. The concept is to separate the relatively small core of troublesome inmates from the vast majority of inmates who just want to do their time in peace.
Here’s how controlled movement worked at Stillwater:
There are five cell blocks at Stillwater. “A West” and “B East” are for good behavior inmates that work or are enrolled in educational programs. “A East” is a transitional block that houses inmates short term who are entering or leaving the facility or are transferring between blocks.
“B West” was nicknamed the “wild, wild west”. That conditions in that block were likely the most similar to those described by the author. This is where the hardcore convicts were housed, I never had contact with any B West inmate during my time at Stillwater. B West was essentially a prison within a prison.
Then there was D Block which was also called the Honor block. That block housed inmates with long sentences who had exhibited good behavior over a long period of time. They enjoy many special privileges such as personal coffee makers and refrigerators.
“SEC” was a separate housing unit for sex offenders completely segregated from the rest of the prison. It was a voluntary treatment unit and not all sex offenders were housed there. But most sex offenders tried to get into SEC as soon as possible.
After a month in A West, I was housed in the “dorm”, an overflow facility in an old building outside the main prison but on the prison grounds. Only the lowest risk inmates were housed there. It was as the name implies, a large open dormitory filled with bunk beds that housed about 60-80 inmates.
Nobody wanted to go to the dorm because the living conditions were truly awful. Freezing cold in the winter and unbearably hot in the summer. The building leaked like crazy when it rained, the plumbing was bad and the building had a damp musky smell.
Absolutely no privacy whatsoever. No stalls around the toilets. One TV for everyone and no personal radios. I would have much rather been housed in A West or B East block where I could have my own cell with a TV and a toilet.
It’s ironic that the SEC unit for sex offenders was arguably the best housing unit as it was brand new building with air conditioning. SEC inmates were not required to work and were actually paid to participate in sex offender treatment.
They were served meals inside the unit. I could see the yard from the dorm and when each of the other blocks were let out into the yard, it was packed full. Then SEC would go the yard and with about a third as many inmates have the whole place to themselves.
I was considered one of the lowest risk, non-violent inmates yet I was housed in worst conditions. And we had to share our yard time with A East. The only benefit to the dorm was that we went to chow hall alone and didn’t have to wait in line and had more time to eat.
I worked 30 hours a week making bird feeders at 75 cents an hour. Along with the yard that is the only time I was with other inmates other than my fellow inmates housed in the dorm. Believe it or not, in the shop we had access to all sorts of tools and even panes of glass used for the bird feeders.
Working in “industry” was a privilege and some inmates with years and years of seniority made as much as $3 a hour. The foreman in my shop was a an arsonist who started a fire that killed five people.
Rumor was that he had accumulated over $30,000 in savings. While $3 a hour might not seem like much, I guess it adds up after a few decades.
I was transferred to a CD treatment program at a medium security prison in Lino Lakes for the final six months of my sentence.
That was like summer camp. Great recreational facilities. The housing units were called cottages and we could BBQ and grow vegetable gardens. We were allowed to go the huge yard (with several big old oak trees) or library anytime we weren’t in treatment classes or meetings. We played softball and had pool tables, ping pong tables, and Nintendo.
I was paid $1.25 an hour, 30 hours a week to participate in treatment so I had plenty of money for anything I needed from the commissary. I had my own cell with my own TV, a personal CD player and basic cable.
We were even allowed to have money from our account, $10 a week which we could use in the soda and candy machines in each cottage. Each cottage had a complete kitchen and we could buy food from the commissary and cook it in the kitchen if we wished. But I always went to the chow hall because the food was pretty good.
Each cottage also had a pizza night once a month where we could order in pizza from Dominoes or Pizza Hut. Of course, we had to pay for it from our account.
This might sound strange but it was one of the best times of my life. I can remember going for a early morning run in the yard and thinking, “I’ve only got four months left” and feeling euphoric.
As the warden said once, “Inmates come to prison as punishment, not for punishment”. That was certainly the philosophy at Lino. Sorry if my tale isn’t quite as gripping but that’s how it was for me. By the way, I haven’t been back.
I believe most of what the author wrote. In CD treatment, everyone has to tell their life story and I heard many similar accounts of prison life from other inmates. But usually they were talking about prison conditions years ago and this was in 1995.
However, one guy talked about his time in a Illinois prison that sounded very much like what the author wrote and that was in the late eighties, early nineties.
The way the author described the psychological effects and the mentality of everyday prison life sent shivers down my spine. The guy had to have done time to talk about it like that. I couldn’t put into words like he did but he described it almost perfectly.
When he spoke about lockdown being like a camp out and stocking up, I knew he had done time because that’s exactly what’s it’s like. Only someone who had done time would know that.
What I don’t believe is that COs were able to beat to death inmates and get away with it. I just can’t see how that could happen in any way in today’s prison system. Everything is on camera, corner’s reports, non lethal methods of restraint. Just couldn’t happen without everyone from the state commissioner of corrections on down covering it up.
Interesting read... Having spent a few months in a low security facility myself when I was (much) younger I could relate to a few bits, but I am not convinced about all the deaths and beat downs... Unless prisons in the USA are 20x worse than they are here it seems a little over the top...
Pretty dark, overall, but an eye opener. Thanks for divulging. I do have a question, however. I noted that, early on, you were fairly liberal with your use of the "N-word" which is widely regarded to be the most inflammatory in the English language.
Personally, I believe people have the right to be offensive--if they choose--and many racists have been conditioned to hide and lie about their disposition, publicly. I, therefore, found your willingness to come out with it a bit refreshing. I would like to know, however, if your liberal use of the word reflects a pre-incarceration disposition toward people with whom you could reproduce just the same as any of the "white race" (in quotes because DNA supports no such distinctions) or, perhaps, has your time away changed your view of the issue? Do you consider yourself racist? Did you before going in? Thanks in advance for your response.
On October 28 2010 00:57 Shandooga wrote: Pretty dark, overall, but an eye opener. Thanks for divulging. I do have a question, however. I noted that, early on, you were fairly liberal with your use of the "N-word" which is widely regarded to be the most inflammatory in the English language.
Personally, I believe people have the right to be offensive--if they choose--and many racists have been conditioned to hide and lie about their disposition, publicly. I, therefore, found your willingness to come out with it a bit refreshing. I would like to know, however, if your liberal use of the word reflects a pre-incarceration disposition toward people with whom you could reproduce just the same as any of the "white race" (in quotes because DNA supports no such distinctions) or, perhaps, has your time away changed your view of the issue? Do you consider yourself racist? Did you before going in? Thanks in advance for your response.
On October 28 2010 00:57 Shandooga wrote: Pretty dark, overall, but an eye opener. Thanks for divulging. I do have a question, however. I noted that, early on, you were fairly liberal with your use of the "N-word" which is widely regarded to be the most inflammatory in the English language.
Personally, I believe people have the right to be offensive--if they choose--and many racists have been conditioned to hide and lie about their disposition, publicly. I, therefore, found your willingness to come out with it a bit refreshing. I would like to know, however, if your liberal use of the word reflects a pre-incarceration disposition toward people with whom you could reproduce just the same as any of the "white race" (in quotes because DNA supports no such distinctions) or, perhaps, has your time away changed your view of the issue? Do you consider yourself racist? Did you before going in? Thanks in advance for your response.
this was originally written on an anonymous image-board who knows for fact that there are no girls nor ni**ers on the internet, he have nothing to worry about.
this image-board is commonly known for making jokes about the African-American stereo type, but they aren't really racist in real life.
On October 28 2010 00:57 Shandooga wrote: Pretty dark, overall, but an eye opener. Thanks for divulging. I do have a question, however. I noted that, early on, you were fairly liberal with your use of the "N-word" which is widely regarded to be the most inflammatory in the English language.
Personally, I believe people have the right to be offensive--if they choose--and many racists have been conditioned to hide and lie about their disposition, publicly. I, therefore, found your willingness to come out with it a bit refreshing. I would like to know, however, if your liberal use of the word reflects a pre-incarceration disposition toward people with whom you could reproduce just the same as any of the "white race" (in quotes because DNA supports no such distinctions) or, perhaps, has your time away changed your view of the issue? Do you consider yourself racist? Did you before going in? Thanks in advance for your response.
this was originally written on an anonymous image-board who knows for fact that there are no girls nor ni**ers on the internet, he have nothing to worry about.
this image-board is commonly known for making jokes about the African-American stereo type, but they aren't really racist in real life.
Unfourchanately We'll never know the name of this image board
On October 28 2010 00:57 Shandooga wrote: Pretty dark, overall, but an eye opener. Thanks for divulging. I do have a question, however. I noted that, early on, you were fairly liberal with your use of the "N-word" which is widely regarded to be the most inflammatory in the English language.
Personally, I believe people have the right to be offensive--if they choose--and many racists have been conditioned to hide and lie about their disposition, publicly. I, therefore, found your willingness to come out with it a bit refreshing. I would like to know, however, if your liberal use of the word reflects a pre-incarceration disposition toward people with whom you could reproduce just the same as any of the "white race" (in quotes because DNA supports no such distinctions) or, perhaps, has your time away changed your view of the issue? Do you consider yourself racist? Did you before going in? Thanks in advance for your response.
this was originally written on an anonymous image-board who knows for fact that there are no girls nor ni**ers on the internet, he have nothing to worry about.
this image-board is commonly known for making jokes about the African-American stereo type, but they aren't really racist in real life.
Unfourchanately We'll never know the name of this image board
On October 28 2010 00:57 Shandooga wrote: Pretty dark, overall, but an eye opener. Thanks for divulging. I do have a question, however. I noted that, early on, you were fairly liberal with your use of the "N-word" which is widely regarded to be the most inflammatory in the English language.
Personally, I believe people have the right to be offensive--if they choose--and many racists have been conditioned to hide and lie about their disposition, publicly. I, therefore, found your willingness to come out with it a bit refreshing. I would like to know, however, if your liberal use of the word reflects a pre-incarceration disposition toward people with whom you could reproduce just the same as any of the "white race" (in quotes because DNA supports no such distinctions) or, perhaps, has your time away changed your view of the issue? Do you consider yourself racist? Did you before going in? Thanks in advance for your response.
this was originally written on an anonymous image-board who knows for fact that there are no girls nor ni**ers on the internet, he have nothing to worry about.
this image-board is commonly known for making jokes about the African-American stereo type, but they aren't really racist in real life.
Unfourchanately We'll never know the name of this image board
clever, but he says the name of the board in the op :p
On October 28 2010 00:57 Shandooga wrote: Pretty dark, overall, but an eye opener. Thanks for divulging. I do have a question, however. I noted that, early on, you were fairly liberal with your use of the "N-word" which is widely regarded to be the most inflammatory in the English language.
Personally, I believe people have the right to be offensive--if they choose--and many racists have been conditioned to hide and lie about their disposition, publicly. I, therefore, found your willingness to come out with it a bit refreshing. I would like to know, however, if your liberal use of the word reflects a pre-incarceration disposition toward people with whom you could reproduce just the same as any of the "white race" (in quotes because DNA supports no such distinctions) or, perhaps, has your time away changed your view of the issue? Do you consider yourself racist? Did you before going in? Thanks in advance for your response.
this was originally written on an anonymous image-board who knows for fact that there are no girls nor ni**ers on the internet, he have nothing to worry about.
this image-board is commonly known for making jokes about the African-American stereo type, but they aren't really racist in real life.
Unfourchanately We'll never know the name of this image board
Wow what a bunch of loosers they are in these facillities, where else would rolling one of your own turds up to throw at someone, or giving your cellmate a blowjob be considerd a 'fun thing to do' and why might i ask would a truck driver that smokes meth and gets caught or, a kid who got caught with a bag of weed end up in a maxium security prison? I guess they prob lied, i mean you have to do something really stupid to get there, explaining that to other ppl wouldnt be high on the 'to do' list!
Prison isnt the punishment, having to mingle with some of the dumbest loosers the world has ever known is the punishment. Its good that he posted this stuff id love to know where the original thread came from, if only to say good on you buddy, maybe youve helped some people reaslise how lucky they are to even be able to breath fresh air, and stopped them taking the simple things in life for granted.
On December 02 2010 15:30 ibanez0r wrote: why might i ask would a truck driver that smokes meth and gets caught or, a kid who got caught with a bag of weed end up in a maxium security prison?
it actually doesnt matter too much the charge you got; i.e. where i live (montgomery county, maryland) all county jails are maximum security. they do segregate based on profiling (and as such probably have violent offenders separated from each other as much as possible) but everyone incarcerated there is in maximum security, whether you killed 18 people or got caught with a gram of weed and didnt have any money to pay for a private lawyer. and most people in maximum security in this county are in for weed, DUI's, and related drug charges.
that being said, like the OP states, there are alot of people bullshitting that omit/exaggerate charges. im pretty sure you dont get locked up for a bag of weed unless you got caught dealing or got screwed with a public defendant who needed to concede some cases to the prosecutor for some deal.
No offense to the generation which doesn't know the difference between grammar and grammer, but this ex-convict actually has better grammar than a lot of you guys.
Google, "2 Years in Prison- A man's story", This story's been spread to every other forum site in a matter of days. I'm sure if this guy went public, he'd be able to make money for it.
On December 04 2010 17:53 Banginglife wrote: Google, "2 Years in Prison- A man's story", This story's been spread to every other forum site in a matter of days. I'm sure if this guy went public, he'd be able to make money for it.
and TL is on the top of the Google search!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On December 04 2010 19:41 Brandish wrote: This has to be fake, all prison records are public information and the state of michigan has had no murders in any of its prisons for the past 4 years
Because everything that happens in life that should be public information gets released to the public?
lol? Things get hidden under the rug all the time. Its not surprising that they wouldn't make a murder public information in a high security prison. And it wouldn't be the first time government hid deaths. Was reading on BBC that, according to wiki leak records, 15k more civilians have died than reported. But civilian deaths were being reported to the public, doesn't mean everything is.
There is no way to actually know, also it might take awhile for murders in prisons to become public information. They probably dont release that kind of thing on a daily update. He speaks in detail, why be so fast to call BS?
Either way the post is a great insight on many levels, shouldnt just bash it because its so unbelievable to you that someone has died in prison, and they havent made it public information. Read every word, i should have went to bed hours ago. Very interesting to hear real prison slang terms, even if it is a little graphic.
This thread is amazing. I didn't finish it fully but I bookmarked it for further reading later. It's really demoralizing and I think a smart person should take a lesson and not end up there.
Off-Topic:
On December 04 2010 21:24 OutlaW- wrote: Funny, every link I've tried googling so far links to this thread. TL getting popular? :D
I think google tracks your recent searches and analyze them and shows you results that you are likely to be interested in. However, I'm not sure about this, cause I've only heard about it from friends who use greesemonkey scripts on Firefox.
On December 04 2010 19:41 Brandish wrote: This has to be fake, all prison records are public information and the state of michigan has had no murders in any of its prisons for the past 4 years
Because everything that happens in life that should be public information gets released to the public?
lol? Things get hidden under the rug all the time. Its not surprising that they wouldn't make a murder public information in a high security prison. And it wouldn't be the first time government hid deaths. Was reading on BBC that, according to wiki leak records, 15k more civilians have died than reported. But civilian deaths were being reported to the public, doesn't mean everything is.
There is no way to actually know, also it might take awhile for murders in prisons to become public information. They probably dont release that kind of thing on a daily update. He speaks in detail, why be so fast to call BS?
Either way the post is a great insight on many levels, shouldnt just bash it because its so unbelievable to you that someone has died in prison, and they havent made it public information. Read every word, i should have went to bed hours ago. Very interesting to hear real prison slang terms, even if it is a little graphic.
Other Dead Giveaways:
The Aryan Brotherhood does not have a significant presence in Michigan. There may be a few members or wannabe's but that's it.
There were not even close to the number of murders he claims in Michigan prisons. I knew it didn't sound right - looked it up and confirmed it.
Nobody calls the guards "screws" (At least not here). Everybody calls them CO's (Corrections officers).
You can't do phone banking from inside because you have to submit a list of up to 20 numbers that you might want to call - and they have to be approved. All calls are monitored and they have software that prevents 3-way calling or other tricks.
Nobody pronounces "Level 5" as "Level V". Inmates are retarded but everyone knows what a fucking roman numeral V is, and they sure as hell know what level prison they are in.
Rape almost never happens.
Almost every prison has exercise equipment (bought by the prisoners fund which is collected as a tax on prisoners store bought goods). Anything can be used as a weapon, but the administrators know that men are less antsy and violent when they have something to use their energy on so they always make sure to have weights since it makes the prison easier to run.
Nobody calls it "solitary" in Michigan. The hole is the hole. And nobody is sent to the hole to open up bed space lol. Convicts are kept in overcrowded county jails until a bed opens up for them in prison.
His story visiting day is complete fabrication. You can deny a visit very easily and the CO's don't give a shit one way or the other.
You don't get an allowance to spend on food. If you have a prison job you earn the meager few dollars to spend in the store, if you don't have a job you get nothing.
Candy isn't used as currency, tobacco and soap is.
Parole is 2 years, not 1. That's not something you would forget.
There is no "DA" in Michigan, its a prosecutor.
His story about the CO's "redialing" the phone for you is fucking funny. Not only does it go completely against the way the phone system works, but you have to pay for your phone calls so that story gets double lulz.
I could go on and on and on but I can't read any further. Cliff Notes version - you've been trolled.
On December 04 2010 19:41 Brandish wrote: This has to be fake, all prison records are public information and the state of michigan has had no murders in any of its prisons for the past 4 years
Because everything that happens in life that should be public information gets released to the public?
lol? Things get hidden under the rug all the time. Its not surprising that they wouldn't make a murder public information in a high security prison. And it wouldn't be the first time government hid deaths. Was reading on BBC that, according to wiki leak records, 15k more civilians have died than reported. But civilian deaths were being reported to the public, doesn't mean everything is.
There is no way to actually know, also it might take awhile for murders in prisons to become public information. They probably dont release that kind of thing on a daily update. He speaks in detail, why be so fast to call BS?
Either way the post is a great insight on many levels, shouldnt just bash it because its so unbelievable to you that someone has died in prison, and they havent made it public information. Read every word, i should have went to bed hours ago. Very interesting to hear real prison slang terms, even if it is a little graphic.
Other Dead Giveaways:
The Aryan Brotherhood does not have a significant presence in Michigan. There may be a few members or wannabe's but that's it.
There were not even close to the number of murders he claims in Michigan prisons. I knew it didn't sound right - looked it up and confirmed it.
Nobody calls the guards "screws" (At least not here). Everybody calls them CO's (Corrections officers).
You can't do phone banking from inside because you have to submit a list of up to 20 numbers that you might want to call - and they have to be approved. All calls are monitored and they have software that prevents 3-way calling or other tricks.
Nobody pronounces "Level 5" as "Level V". Inmates are retarded but everyone knows what a fucking roman numeral V is, and they sure as hell know what level prison they are in.
Rape almost never happens.
Almost every prison has exercise equipment (bought by the prisoners fund which is collected as a tax on prisoners store bought goods). Anything can be used as a weapon, but the administrators know that men are less antsy and violent when they have something to use their energy on so they always make sure to have weights since it makes the prison easier to run.
Nobody calls it "solitary" in Michigan. The hole is the hole. And nobody is sent to the hole to open up bed space lol. Convicts are kept in overcrowded county jails until a bed opens up for them in prison.
His story visiting day is complete fabrication. You can deny a visit very easily and the CO's don't give a shit one way or the other.
You don't get an allowance to spend on food. If you have a prison job you earn the meager few dollars to spend in the store, if you don't have a job you get nothing.
Candy isn't used as currency, tobacco and soap is.
Parole is 2 years, not 1. That's not something you would forget.
There is no "DA" in Michigan, its a prosecutor.
His story about the CO's "redialing" the phone for you is fucking funny. Not only does it go completely against the way the phone system works, but you have to pay for your phone calls so that story gets double lulz.
I could go on and on and on but I can't read any further. Cliff Notes version - you've been trolled.
I dont know whose been trolled, the people who just enjoyed a good story fiction or not, or the person who made an account and spent all this time trying to prove that we got trolled.
On December 05 2010 03:53 Brandish wrote: Other Dead Giveaways:
Do you actually live in Michigan?
Because I live in Illinois and I can tell you from firsthand experience a lot of those "dead giveaways" are not true over here.
There's a lot of questionable things about this story, but the author definitely gets the feelings right, and if it's a fabrication, he did his research from real firsthand accounts. So I'm of the belief that this account is at least partially true.
On December 04 2010 19:41 Brandish wrote: This has to be fake, all prison records are public information and the state of michigan has had no murders in any of its prisons for the past 4 years
Because everything that happens in life that should be public information gets released to the public?
lol? Things get hidden under the rug all the time. Its not surprising that they wouldn't make a murder public information in a high security prison. And it wouldn't be the first time government hid deaths. Was reading on BBC that, according to wiki leak records, 15k more civilians have died than reported. But civilian deaths were being reported to the public, doesn't mean everything is.
There is no way to actually know, also it might take awhile for murders in prisons to become public information. They probably dont release that kind of thing on a daily update. He speaks in detail, why be so fast to call BS?
Either way the post is a great insight on many levels, shouldnt just bash it because its so unbelievable to you that someone has died in prison, and they havent made it public information. Read every word, i should have went to bed hours ago. Very interesting to hear real prison slang terms, even if it is a little graphic.
Other Dead Giveaways:
The Aryan Brotherhood does not have a significant presence in Michigan. There may be a few members or wannabe's but that's it.
There were not even close to the number of murders he claims in Michigan prisons. I knew it didn't sound right - looked it up and confirmed it.
Nobody calls the guards "screws" (At least not here). Everybody calls them CO's (Corrections officers).
You can't do phone banking from inside because you have to submit a list of up to 20 numbers that you might want to call - and they have to be approved. All calls are monitored and they have software that prevents 3-way calling or other tricks.
Nobody pronounces "Level 5" as "Level V". Inmates are retarded but everyone knows what a fucking roman numeral V is, and they sure as hell know what level prison they are in.
Rape almost never happens.
Almost every prison has exercise equipment (bought by the prisoners fund which is collected as a tax on prisoners store bought goods). Anything can be used as a weapon, but the administrators know that men are less antsy and violent when they have something to use their energy on so they always make sure to have weights since it makes the prison easier to run.
Nobody calls it "solitary" in Michigan. The hole is the hole. And nobody is sent to the hole to open up bed space lol. Convicts are kept in overcrowded county jails until a bed opens up for them in prison.
His story visiting day is complete fabrication. You can deny a visit very easily and the CO's don't give a shit one way or the other.
You don't get an allowance to spend on food. If you have a prison job you earn the meager few dollars to spend in the store, if you don't have a job you get nothing.
Candy isn't used as currency, tobacco and soap is.
Parole is 2 years, not 1. That's not something you would forget.
There is no "DA" in Michigan, its a prosecutor.
His story about the CO's "redialing" the phone for you is fucking funny. Not only does it go completely against the way the phone system works, but you have to pay for your phone calls so that story gets double lulz.
I could go on and on and on but I can't read any further. Cliff Notes version - you've been trolled.
I dont know whose been trolled, the people who just enjoyed a good story fiction or not, or the person who made an account and spent all this time trying to prove that we got trolled.
I'm not sure why people find the need to make personal attacks on others but I didn't write that, i just copied and pasted it from another thread about this story. I just decided to stop being a TL lurker around the same time the 26th page of this thread was complete, oh yeah.
In no way have I said that I have not enjoyed the story, because I will admit, it is a good work of fiction.
I get the train nevery week, and sit next to a guy who did two years in jail. The European jail system doesn't seem anywhere near as rough, but those talks were some of the most eye opening and insightful discussions I've ever had.
I'm amazed at how frank the guy in this thread is, he's clearly had time to think, and we're profiting.
it reminds me of the game Demon's Souls.... To the people saying it's fake I can't help but think it's just because you can't accept the horrid truth. I can't help but feel anger towards you either. To me, stories like this are innocent until proven guilty.
hay im new here and just read this if you don't mined me saying its true that some people have a bad time in prison but to be honest it just depends what sort of stuff you do and say in there I mean its just siting eating working out sleeping showering talking doing drills ect that's what it was like in prison for me but every one has a different experience so its not so bad but still bad at the same time see ^-^
On April 04 2013 18:59 Ciel Alexander wrote: hay im new here and just read this if you don't mined me saying its true that some people have a bad time in prison but to be honest it just depends what sort of stuff you do and say in there I mean its just siting eating working out sleeping showering talking doing drills ect that's what it was like in prison for me but every one has a different experience so its not so bad but still bad at the same time see ^-^
I spent 5 years in Federal Prison for a marijuana offense. No, it was not for simple possession. I was arrested aboard a Lockheed PV2 in Marianna, Florida. Then charged and convicted for conspiracy to import and distribute 12,000 pounds of marijuana. I have written 3 books about those escapades. My first, tells of the great times I and my friends had in the pot business. The next 2 are tales of things I saw and heard while in prison. Some of the stories are humorous...some are brutal. I just found this thread and thought I would add my two cents. I would be honored by your reviews. If you google my name, Hugh Yonn, the books will miraculously appear. I wish all of you the very best.