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On July 18 2010 21:26 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 21:11 HeavOnEarth wrote:
My reason for that comment followed STRAIGHT after - it was the he got rewarded for his crime. You disagreeing with that is fine, but your parallel sucks as it isn't a parallel in any way imagineable. Sure he needs to have the basic skills to write about his experience, but he wouldn't have been able to write the book had he not commited the crime in the first place.
Im not disagreeing with you in the slightest, im just saying you have backwards logic that you should consider fixing. This is actually meant in a pretty constructive way, if you really think that him selling a book= reward for his crime, you probably have other logic deficiencies with yourself. I'm honestly confused right now - what exactly did you do then? Let me make a parallel of my own to throw a light on what I meant: Would you buy a book from Osama Bin Laden "The 2 towers and how I did it"? Buying it would only make him profit more from the atrocity... The consumer has (imo) moral obligations and how everyone deals with that is up to themselves...
If the book is glorifying the terrorist attack then it might be wrong to buy it. I think many people still would buy ut to try to understand his mind and finding out why someone would do something that horrible.
If Osama wrote about how his life got into a complete hell after the attack and how he regreted that he had been part of the terrorist network then I see nothing wrong in buying the book.
As a sidenote: The book "Mein Kampf" written by Adolf Hittler has sold a whole lot of copies.
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Really nasty shit, even for a 1st World system, you can just imagine how a corrupt Third World system would have their systems organized, and how it would feel and be like for the people in them.
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you -or the guy- should publish that it was a great read i was wide eyed 0_0
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Interesting, but long. En joyed it thouh.
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Amazing read and made me realize how naive I am about the prison system, I literally had no idea people did drugs while incarcerated.
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I doubt that all prisons are run like this.
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On July 18 2010 23:16 Biochemist wrote:
I doubt that all prisons are run like this.
Maybe not, but I think that most of the violent offenders-type prisons are very close to this on the scale. Perhaps certain things aren't as bad, while others are worse. From what I've gathered from other's I know who've done time (even over here in the UK), this seems pretty spot on.
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On July 18 2010 23:33 jtype wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 23:16 Biochemist wrote:
I doubt that all prisons are run like this. Maybe not, but I think that most of the violent offenders-type prisons are very close to this on the scale. Perhaps certain things aren't as bad, while others are worse. From what I've gathered from other's I know who've done time (even over here in the UK), this seems pretty spot on.
I dunno. I have no experience (first or secondhand) with the civilian prison system. I DO have quite a bit of experience with the naval prison system, as several of my friends were brig officers when I was in the Marines. Perhaps the difference comes from the inmates in a military prison being, you know, military, but everything there was always run so professionally and cleanly. There wasn't any prisoner on prisoner violence, drugs, or any of the other f'd up nonsense you see in this guy's posts.
I'd like to imagine that if I was a warden I'd be able to run my prison like a military prison, and not like this crap. Perhaps they have less control though, with laws governing how much they can punish prisoners (e.g. <1 week in solitary at a time).
Generally the more power you give to someone in charge the better, except for the assholes who abuse that power and cause laws to get passed protecting the prisoners, which lands you in a situation where the prisoners know you can't do anything to them, and so they aren't afraid of you anymore. I don't know much about the prison system, but this is certainly what's happening in boot camp (new recruits are WAY less disciplined than they used to be, and drill instructors are more afraid of recruits than the other way around).
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I'm not sure why people are finding this so interesting and informative. Maybe it's just me but the only thing that slightly surprised me was the killing he described, which was more brutal than I would've imagined otherwise.
Honestly, all I see is a guy that committed armed robbery and instead of repenting in prison, did drugs and had "no homo" sex. He doesn't sound like someone that regrets what he did at all.
Call me crazy but I don't mind seeing people like him rot in prison. Prison should not be a joy ride after all. It's a punishement where you get thrown in with other psychos.
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This guy needs to write a book. I read the whole post and it was a great story
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On July 19 2010 01:16 Kurr wrote:
I'm not sure why people are finding this so interesting and informative. Maybe it's just me but the only thing that slightly surprised me was the killing he described, which was more brutal than I would've imagined otherwise.
Honestly, all I see is a guy that committed armed robbery and instead of repenting in prison, did drugs and had "no homo" sex. He doesn't sound like someone that regrets what he did at all.
Call me crazy but I don't mind seeing people like him rot in prison. Prison should not be a joy ride after all. It's a punishement where you get thrown in with other psychos.
Totally agree.
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On July 19 2010 01:16 Kurr wrote:
I'm not sure why people are finding this so interesting and informative. Maybe it's just me but the only thing that slightly surprised me was the killing he described, which was more brutal than I would've imagined otherwise.
Honestly, all I see is a guy that committed armed robbery and instead of repenting in prison, did drugs and had "no homo" sex. He doesn't sound like someone that regrets what he did at all.
Call me crazy but I don't mind seeing people like him rot in prison. Prison should not be a joy ride after all. It's a punishement where you get thrown in with other psychos.
It's interesting because you get to see how it is in a prison? Which the general public don't know unless they get sent inside.
Also like you said the guy doesn't repent and his time only made him harder, he says at one time that he feels now that he could survive now if he is ever sent back.
So it seems than for him and other inmate prison isn't really effective.
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Thanks for posting, twas very interesting and thought provoking
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Wow, I just read that entire thing and I realized I never want to go to jail ever. That story about the guy that got his dick literally ripped out of him just scared the fuck out of me.
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I don't understand why anyone would rejoice in the pain of others, even if the others are people who have done horrible things. Prison should do two things: Punish and rehabilitate. The punishment should be for the purpose of making people think twice, and give a sense that there is justice. The severity should be appropriate to the crime, but I certainly think that spending two years in jail is an extremely significant punishment. The punishment shouldn't be cruel, life in prison should not make people want to commit suicide. I think the best attitude to punishment is to be saddened when you are forced to administer it - it's a necessity, but not something to glory in.
The rehabilitation element is the far more desirable. Whether it currently has a good success rate or not - it's clearly not an impossibility. If the current success rate is bad, then perhaps figuring out how to improve it should be high on society's list of priorities. In the case of gang-members who rape, murder and eat girls with no remorse, there may not be a chance of rehabilitation. In that case, if they really are remorseless, they should simply be locked up for life, kept separate from society to prevent them from damaging it. They are clearly disturbed individuals, and it would be wrong to "throw them in with the other psychos" and hope that they do as much damage to each other as possible. Not only is it inhumane, it's also fairly arbitrary. Why should top dog criminals who "run" the prisons be given less punishment than the weak ones who are harassed by the other inmates?
In general, justice should not be arbitrary at all. The punishment should be meted out with a steady hand, not in a vengeful rage. It should not include things like preventing people from getting jobs (with some exceptions, such as kindergarten teacher, cash transport driver etc.) since this is clearly counter-productive to their rehabilitation into society.
Ask any prison-psychiatrist, and I'm willing to bet that damn near every single one of them have deep-rooted insecurities and feelings of inferiority. The people who commit (petty) crime are almost all going to be leading shitty lives with no real prospects for improvement. To say that they are driven to crime by their environment is perhaps not right - they are responsible for their actions. But if crime could be avoided by altering their environments, then clearly this would be a huge boon to the criminals as well as their victims.
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OP, thanks for this thread. Prison systems worldwide are always interesting read, always sad too.
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On July 18 2010 21:32 Ghostcom wrote:
So would you buy a book from Osama on how to live in caves? Your logic isn't any better than mine...
It's a completely different point he's making.
I would buy a book on a first-hand account on how a level five prison institute is like from the inside. Why? Because I'm interested in it, and people are interested in those kinds of things. Now I could just go and commit a violent murder and get the first-hand account on my own, but I couldn't live with myself knowing I'd killed someone.
So I prefer to read.
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 18 2010 11:58 Batch wrote:
My question to all those sympathizers is, what do you do with people like this? Do you try to rehabilitate them? How do you make them functioning members of society? Furthering that, where do you draw the line? Where is it that you stop punishing, and start rehabilitating?
First of all I think what you describe is horrible but these gang members wouldn't have done what they did if they wheren't affected by environment. I bet that none of them would do what they did if they where alone and in a different environment. Since you were a in Iraq then you probably heard of or seen fellow american soldiers doing thing they never would have done at home. The environment we live in shapes us. How should the gang members get rehabilitated? By moving them from their environment and letting them get a chance to make themselves a better life. Give them prison time as a punishment but avoid cutting their chances to come back into the society. Lets say a your son had some kind of problems and decides to steal a car which he crashes. He gets busted and put in jail for a couple of months and during that period he gets raped and beated half to death a couple of times. Would your opinion still be 'yup, you're fucked' since it was his own fault he was put in jail? Where is the humanity?
I used an extreme case for a reason. I am trying to provide a counterpoint to all those who are giving this guy sympathy because of how fucked up the prison system is. My point is, when is it no longer useful or effective to provide rehabilitation? Where is the line where the crime is so heinous that the person needs to just be locked the fuck up?
Your example is inaccurate. You don't get L5 for GTA. L5 is reserved for the people who commit crimes with foresight and malice. If my son steals a car because he is drunk with his buddies, its his first offense, and he has no priors, he gets off with a plea bargain to the tune of 2 years probation with a tether and some community service. If you rob someone, or something, with a weapon, that is automatically intent to harm, and it is assumed that since you brought a weapon, you planned the crime, giving you foresight. You get hit with armed robbery with no priors, and you don't plead that down to probation. You get jail time, every time.
He got off relatively easy, in that sense. Based off his well to do upbringing, It really isn't a stretch to assume he had a good lawyer, and his parents forked over the cash to develop a good case in his defense. A poor person in the same situation probably gets 5-10 easy.
Honestly, its not that bad. We as Americans (or well to do foreigners) are so spoiled by the amenities of life that we forget you don't need all this shit to survive. They get fed in prison, and a warm bed. There are people in some countries who would kill (literally) to be put in an American prison. Hell, the food there sounds better than the stuff I ate in Iraq, where I couldn't go 20 minutes at a time without pissing out of my ass. As a military man, the stuff I had to deal with does not sound much better, and I don't run around bitching about it, because I volunteered to be put in that situation. By planning and then executing an armed robbery, he fucking volunteered to be put in prison.
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Great read, really liked how he wrote it all.
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Furthermore, why do people think this guy is a good writer? Seems pretty on-par with what you'd expect from any random 4-chan poster.
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EPT
