Since January, I have been dealing with several forms of RSI, that is, Repetitive Stress Injury which is a type of injury most serious gamers will probably encounter in some form, even if it's only a light discomfort. During the course of my recovery, I have done a great deal of research and study on what can be done to heal these types of injuries.
I had to personally develop a plan for myself to try to get on track to recover fully for the release of Starcraft 2, and so far things are going well enough for me to try to write this up, so I would greatly like to share the information with anyone.
I hope to help users with light to mild pain deal with it cheaply and effectively.
I will cover the topics of workstation layout, posture, exercises and stretches for the following conditions:
Tendonitis of the wrist, forearm, hand, and elbow(also known as tennis elbow or mouse elbow)
Repetitive strain injury (RSI) (also known as repetitive stress injury, repetitive motion injuries, repetitive motion disorder (RMD), cumulative trauma disorder (CT), occupational overuse syndrome, overuse syndrome, regional musculoskeletal disorder) is an injury of the musculoskeletal and nervous systems that may be caused by repetitive tasks, forceful exertions, vibrations, mechanical compression (pressing against hard surfaces), or sustained or awkward positions.
Ergonomic Workstation Guide:
When I first found myself having pain in my arms and hands, the first thing I asked myself was "what has changed?" The only thing that had changed since before the pain started happening was my desk height. The height of my desk was too high and causing me to have terrible posture, resulting in me putting pressure on the carpal tunnel and cubital tunnel of my right hand, and the cubital tunnel of my left hand. The thing that really agitated this was the mashing the f keys while resting my arm on the left armrest of my chair. The major extension of my pinky really did a number on me, and even as I type this now I can still feel it.
I knew something had to be wrong with my workstation, and oh boy it really was. It was extremely hard for me to access a guide with extensive knowledge how I should be positioned in all ways for a workstation. Thankfully Cornell University has an ergonomics department, and after going through their information, I found a very comprehensive guide to how to setup a workstation.
There are a number of obvious choices such as split keyboards and ergonomic mice for maximum health and comfort. According to Cornell University, wrist alignment is much more important than hand position.
Wrist rests - these were very popular a few years ago, but research studies haven't demonstrated any substantial benefits for wrist rests. In fact, a wrist rest can actually increase pressure inside the carpal tunnel by compressing the undersurface of the wrist (take a look at your wrist and you'll probably see blood vessels that shouldn't be compressed!). Studies by Dr. David Rempel at the University of Berkeley, California, show that pressure applied to the underside of the carpal tunnel is transferred into the tunnel itself via the transverse carpal ligament and that intracarpal pressure doubles with a wrist rest compared with floating the hands over a keyboard. If you choose to use a wrist rest, using one with a broad, flat, firm surface design works best, and rest the heel of your palm on this NOT your wrist. Try not to rest while you're actually typing, but rest in between bursts of typing movements. Avoid soft and squishy wrist rests because these will contour to your wrist, restrict the freedom of movement of your hands, and encourage more lateral deviation during typing. Look at the surface of a typical wrist rest that's been used and you'll see that it gets eroded away, which means that the user has been sliding their wrists over the surface which also compresses the blood vessels often visible at the wrist. Remember, your hands should be able to glide above the surface of a wrist rest during typing, don't lock them in place on the rest while you type.
Chair armrests - Having armrests on a chair can be helpful to aid getting into and getting out of the chair. Also, the armrests can be useful for the occasional resting of the arms (e.g. when on the phone, sitting back relaxing). However, it is not a good idea to permanently wrest the forearms on armrests while you are typing or mousing because this can compress the flexor muscles and some armrest can also compress the ulnar never at the elbow. Ideally, it should be easy to get the armrests out of the way when you need to have free access to the keyboard and mouse. These days most office chairs have armrests and many of them have adjustable height armrests, so look for a chair that is a comfortable fit to you and that has broader, flatter, padded armrests that you can easily move out of the way if needed is the best approach. If you are able to occasionally rest your hands on the keyboard on a palm rest and if you have a comfortable chair that does not have any armrests then this is also quite acceptable.
Put the monitor at a comfortable height that doesn't make the user tilt their head up to see it or bend their neck down to see it. When you are seated comfortably, a user's eyes should be in line with a point on the screen about 2-3" below the top of the monitor casing (not the screen). Sit back in your chair at an angle of around 100-110 degrees (i.e. slight recline) and hold your right arm out horizontally, your middle finger should almost touch the center of the screen. From that starting position you can then make minor changes to screen height and angle to suit. Research shows the center of the monitor should be about 17-18 degrees below horizontal for optimal viewing, and this is where it will be if you follow the simple arm extension/finger pointing tip. You actually see more visual field below the horizon than above this (look down a corridor and you'll see more of the floor than the ceiling), so at this position the user should comfortably be able to see more of the screen. If the monitor is too low, you will crane their neck forwards, if it's too high you'll tilt their head backwards and end up with neck/shoulder pain.
viewing distance - the monitor should be at a comfortable horizontal distance for viewing, which usually is around an arms length (sit back in your chair and raise your arm and your fingers should touch the screen). At this distance you should be able to see the viewing area of the monitor without making head movements. If text looks too small then either use a larger font or magnify the screen image in the software rather than sitting closer to the monitor.
Make sure that the user can reach the keyboard keys with their wrists as flat as possible (not bent up or down) and straight (not bent left or right).
Make sure that the user's elbow angle (the angle between the inner surface of the upper arm and the forearm) is at or greater than 90 degrees to avoid nerve compression at the elbow.
Make sure that the upper arm and elbow are as close to the body and as relaxed as possible for mouse use - avoid overreaching. Also make sure that the wrist is as straight as possible when the mouse is being used.
Make sure the user sits back in the chair and has good back support. Also check that the feet can be placed flat on the floor or on a footrest.
Make sure the head and neck are as straight as possible .
Make sure the posture feels relaxed for the user.
simply put
You can't set a flat work surface at an appropriate height for the 5 main tasks of office work - keyboarding, mousing, writing, viewing documents and viewing the screen- these all require different heights for an optimal arrangement. A negative-slope keyboard tray system serves as the height and angle adjustment mechanism for the keyboard, and the mouse platform serves as the height and angle adjustment for the mouse when attached to a work surface that is set for writing height. Monitor height is best adjusted by a separate monitor pedestal rather than trying to move a whole work surface. There are a number of new split work surface designs that may work quite well to achieve optimal monitor positioning.
With all that being said, my "workstation" could hardly even be called such. I rest my monitor on a folding card table, with my mouse and keyboard on a separate, height adjustable laptop table. The laptop table can be purchased for about 30-40 bucks, and the folding table well... it's a folding table. I recently made the switch from a keyboard with scissor switches(laptop style keys) to a keyboard with mechanical switches and noticed a great deal of comfort, along with owning the best keyboard I have ever used.
The point I'm making here is that you don't really have to go all out to be comfortable in your work station. It's nice to have a cool looking one but a cardtable and adjustable smaller table for my keyboard worked perfectly fine for me and probably cost about 50 USD in total.
Stretches:
If you think you are suffering from RSI, and you have narrowed it down to a certain condition, certain stretches may be more beneficial for relieving the stress on your tendons and muscles than others, but I would personally recommend doing all of them as a preventative measure. If you any really bad pain during any of these stretches, you should probably go see a doctor.
I'd recommend holding these for about 10-15 seconds each, doing them 3 times a day minimum, up to 10 times a day.
This probably helped me out the most personally. Stick your arm out, palm facing down. Keep your arm straight and tilt your wrist up so your hand is vertical until you feel a pulling in the back of your hand.
Arm stretched out, palm facing up, pull your palm back with your opposite hand while keeping your arm stretched and elbow locked.
One other stretch that doesn't do much for me but people might find helpful is basically doing this only instead of using your other hand, push your palm against a wall, and then to pull your thumb up. I've read it's useful for pain in the thumb and that area of the hand.
Of course, all stretching is good, so if you can think of any more, do them! It helps believe me.
Exercises:
The goal in these exercises is to strengthen the core muscle groups that we use when on the computer.
What you'll need:
1lb / .5kg dumbbell
2lb / 1kg dumbbell
Grip Strengthening Tool / Stress Ball
Rubber Band
For grip strength even a tennis ball works here for or even a wet rag. Stress balls are pretty cheap at any sporting goods store. I got mine for around 5 dollars. Here's something similar http://www.officeplayground.com/Stress-Balls-C9.aspx
Before you try these you should make make sure you have the range of motion required to perform these exercises, meaning you should be able to do all of the stretches comfortably. If you have any sort of pain while doing this you should go back to stretching and resting. Most would recommend 3 sets of 15 repetitions. I would say go until you feel a burn and then a little further and then stop and rest. Doing these every other day should be fine.
Starting with the lightest weight you have, here is a simple exercise routine that should cover everything. Finish it off with the ball squeeze or gripping exercise tool you have.
Just a random note / trick that I picked up about the rubber band. If you twist the rubber band between each finger you can have a much easier time keeping it from rolling up your hand. I had a much easier time doing the rubber band exercise after learning how to do this.
With this routine, I have been able to ease my way back into personal computer use, and I plan on following it for my lifetime so that I hopefully don't slip into injury again.
Stay healthy!
Update: Another thing I would recommend doing is going to a nice massage place. If you are gaming and having complications in your forearms from playing so much there's no better way to relieve the stress / lactic buildup in your forearms. I now go once a month to get a regular massage and I believe that this has helped me out quite a bit, almost as much as the stretching.
Thanks to flamewheel for this post about flux. I really love this program.
On December 20 2010 11:36 flamewheel wrote: Oh yeah I found a program this year that's pretty good on your computer screen. It auto-adjusts the tint of color based on the amount of natural light available so it's better for your eyes at night.
Nice post! I've been doing many of these stretches, though mainly it was for tennis (forearms), weightlighting (the stuff in exercises) and piano, since typing too much and playing Tetris for prolonged periods of time have started destroying the flexibility in my hands and fingers. Never really thought too much about the ergonomic workstation though, but perhaps that might be interesting to look into.
what are the first signs of any of these troubles? i never felt anything but since im sitting by the computer 24/7 and have done so for most of my life i feel i should be worried ^_^
On July 07 2010 16:11 nttea wrote: what are the first signs of any of these troubles? i never felt anything but since im sitting by the computer 24/7 and have done so for most of my life i feel i should be worried ^_^
Stiffness / pain would probably be the first sign. When I first felt it it was just a small amount of pain in my pinky and along the side of my hand. Like a nagging feeling. When it lasted for multiple days I knew that it could be serious and I just ignored it which allowed it to develop into something worse.
very very interesting. I must say i will fall to this soon since im usually looking really close to the computer, my posture is really bad im usually hunched over * i sit on beanie bags becuase we have no comp stand* and my *mouse pad* is my tower so my wrist are also in pretty bad shape. I better start to excersicing before its too late -_-
I have some RSI on the index finger of right hand. Root cause is more than likely overuse...
Problem is that's not something I can fix easily. I design Electronics for a living. I'm at my pc all day making schematics, dragging-and-droppping transistors and stuff around on the screen. Then when I come home I boot me up some Starcraft which is not helping at all. Can't exactly quit my job though.
Sometimes I use my middle finger on the mouse instead. When beta started I even tried using my left hand to use the mouse. Only for a few days though, that shit is frustrating
Anyone else have index-finger problems or does anyone have positive experience with an Ergonomic Mouse?
Wow, this is a perfectly timed post for me, my wrist started hurting a few days ago and although it stopped, i now know what to do to prevent it! thanks so much ^^ I just did the wrist stretches and they cracked just like my knuckles 0_o
The first sign I had was that it hurt lifting a frying pan. Took me a while to understand it actually had to do with the computer.
After it healed and came back several times (when it came back I basicly stopped playing bw, and then started when it healed), I decided to basicly quit competitive gaming.
This seems really good. I do some of the exercises you show here for normal training, eventhough I have no problem with RSI anymore. I wonder if they would have helped me.
Will def by doing these exercises/stretches regularly. (perfect for queuing in LoL)
Just need to get some weights. I work in IT and pretty much on a PC 90% of my awake hrs. Have had ongoing rsi issues for few years.
Recently had the right mouse click finger pain. I basically switched to using left hand at work. Not sure if theres any particular mouse that helps with that. Just make sure its not one that forces ur hand to hunch over it (my mx518 kinda did this and i had issues with fingers overextending) All depends on ur gripe style and hand size i guess.
On July 07 2010 17:39 Khul Sadukar wrote: Excellent post.
Will def by doing these exercises/stretches regularly. (perfect for queuing in LoL)
Just need to get some weights. I work in IT and pretty much on a PC 90% of my awake hrs. Have had ongoing rsi issues for few years.
Recently had the right mouse click finger pain. I basically switched to using left hand at work. Not sure if theres any particular mouse that helps with that. Just make sure its not one that forces ur hand to hunch over it (my mx518 kinda did this and i had issues with fingers overextending) All depends on ur gripe style and hand size i guess.
It probably could help to switch to your other hand but unless really you make a permanent switch that is probably not going to solve the problem. If there is nothing compressing your wrist and you are keeping it straight, my guess that it could be a tendon issue of overextension like you say, which is much easier to deal with compared to carpal tunnel as long as you do some core strengthening and try to take it easy. There are a number of ergonomic mice that you can use for work as well that can help to relieve stress related injury.
my teacher told me the best way to avoid these types of injury, above all else, is to just take breaks and don't be on the computer for 5hours + at a time.
I've worked up a habit of just switching hands whenever I'm not competative, so using my right arm for mouse and left for keyboard while gaming ect and then just going mouse in left whenever I'm just browsing forums or anything like that.
I have no idea if this actually helps, but I've never felt any kind of symptoms of these things. It would be neat if anyone with some kind of insight knows if it's just a quirky habit or of actual help.
Growing up, I was always taught to keep my wrists elevated when typing or I'd otherwise risk injury. It was not only false, but terribly uncomfortable.
On July 08 2010 07:10 Malgrif wrote: my teacher told me the best way to avoid these types of injury, above all else, is to just take breaks and don't be on the computer for 5hours + at a time.
Even with breaks years of constant computer use is gonna lead to these sort of things. Stupid demanding office jobs.
Btw my whole team is away sick this week. Im gonna quit this BS..
I do NONE of this shit. Totally getting RSI any day now =/
I got to experience my first bout of it a few days ago. Had pretty severe pain around the thumb area of my right hand that lasted about 2 days. I'm not really sure of the cause; my guess is that my workspace at the office sucks and it eventually got to me -- been there about a month; I've got essentially a thick plastic folding table as a desk.
On July 07 2010 16:11 nttea wrote: what are the first signs of any of these troubles? i never felt anything but since im sitting by the computer 24/7 and have done so for most of my life i feel i should be worried ^_^
Stiffness / pain would probably be the first sign. When I first felt it it was just a small amount of pain in my pinky and along the side of my hand. Like a nagging feeling. When it lasted for multiple days I knew that it could be serious and I just ignored it which allowed it to develop into something worse.
okay thanks! i will watchout for these and definitely not ignore them if i get it, though for now i didnt feel any pain or stiffness.
On July 08 2010 17:16 Fujitsi wrote: Has anyone ever tried a powerball? I have one and use it sometimes just for the lulz, but it says on the box it helps against RSI too ..
honestly if you are going to get anything for your RSI, I wouldn't want to gamble on something like a powerball. It might help and if you are into it than cool, but it probably doesn't do much more than a simple grip ball or rubber band.
If you want to spend extra money on something I'm pretty sure this is the only way to go.
Thanks a lot and this is very good timing. I am actually getting another mouse and planning on setting up my computer arrangement to minimize strain since I've been having some problems lately due to golf and the like... I temporarily switched my mouse to the left side to relieve stress on my right wrist but this doesn't seem to have entirely fixed my problems so... more stuff I need to work on!
BTW my orthopedic surgeon's office suggested I use a stressball also to strengthen the muscles in the are which helped with the muscles below the thumb somewhat... not sure if it's helped my wrist or not.
On July 08 2010 07:10 Malgrif wrote: my teacher told me the best way to avoid these types of injury, above all else, is to just take breaks and don't be on the computer for 5hours + at a time.
Guess what. Youre teacher is wrong. Staying at the computer for less than 5 hours is not even something a lot of us would begin to consider here!
On a more serious note, Ive used the computer all my life and never had any problems what so ever. I do however get a hurting arm when I use write with a pencil for too long. Maybe I will use that as my excuse for not handing in that paper tomorrow.
...actually this does not only apply to those people who had the injury by playing video games. i had my injury, im not sure if its the Tendonitis of the wrist, when i lacked strength in pushing the last rep of my exercise in the gym. i was doing closed grip bench press( the one using that crooked bar) and i sprained my wrists (note: with the S) so i couldnt play pc games for 2 weeks and couldnt work out for a month!! now im 95% recovered ( i still feel some pain when i stretch my left wrist) and ill try these to fully heal my wrists. thanks for the post ive been looking for books pertaining to this but unexpectedly i found it in a starcraft forum! thanks to OP!!
Thanks! I need to start doing these. I`ve been experiencing some discomfort recently, especially in my right hand, I definitely wouldn`t want it to get more serious. My desktop setup is far from perfect too.
I would like to recommend, after going through some mild cubital tunnel syndrome that people use a vertical mouse for anything no gaming related on the computer. And use either an ergonomic keyboard or a low resistance keyboard. http://www.evoluent.com/vm3.html is fantastic. My friend who suffered from severe carpal tunnel suggested it to and me and it changed everything. I can now go on marathon gaming streaks and not notice any irritation because my wrist has competely healed from using the vertical mouse whenever I didnt need my razer.
On July 07 2010 16:11 nttea wrote: what are the first signs of any of these troubles? i never felt anything but since im sitting by the computer 24/7 and have done so for most of my life i feel i should be worried ^_^
QFT. My mom keeps telling me I'm gonna develop all these horrible diseases, I need to convince her she's wrong ;_;
I got this from playing guitar and I will say this.
It. Fucking. Sucks. Worse. Than. Everything.
When it flared up for me I couldn't use my right hand for anything. I typed with one hand for about a month. I had to do painful stretches to rework the cords in my arm. It came from having a little bit of tension in my thumb while I played. When your muscles don't get to fully rest and recharge before reworking them the fatigue builds up bad and fierce.
Do the stretches everyone! start today. At the very least., just do the stretches.
I played guitar for 4 years before it crept up on me. Now, 3 and change years later I still sometimes get those painful inklings, but have totally revamped hand positions and posture so it shouldn't ever come back.
On July 07 2010 16:27 Smgzy wrote: Stiffness / pain would probably be the first sign. When I first felt it it was just a small amount of pain in my pinky and along the side of my hand. Like a nagging feeling. When it lasted for multiple days I knew that it could be serious and I just ignored it which allowed it to develop into something worse.
Ahhh! I have that exact same feeling! I started noticing a few weeks ago (maybe less, idk for sure as I was pretty much ignoring it). I am absolutely going to start doing these exercises/stretches. Thanks a lot man
I have extreme pain in both my hands from extensive 3d modeling earlier this year, and then from (a small amount admittedly) starcraft 2 and more repeditive work. I'm definitely going to be looking into these exercises since I want to start writing/modeling again and finding a new desk/chair has been totally impossible for the last few years.
after playing to much over the last few days i have pain in my wrist, it is a recurring pain that builds up over a few days and i've had it a few times. I am avoiding bending it until it stops hurting.
Very nice post! Recently I seem to be developing RSI like synthoms so I'm defently going to give the excersises a go with fingers crossed that I can acutaly play decently again when sc2 goes live XD.
@thadorus, can be anything really, I guess if it's really becoming a pain you should go see a docter since (s)he can properly diagnose it.
thank you so so so MUCH! I've been worrying about RSI for a while now, but hadn't found anywhere to look for a solid guide on reducing occurrence of RSI. This is very helpful THANK YOU. My main problem is eye strain, hopefully if i follow the ergonomic guide I can reduce that too
Thank you very much for this. My other main activity/profession aside from computer use is piano playing, and the stiffness I get in my hands and wrists sometimes can really impede that. The stretches feel really good and hopefully if I make a conscious effort to do them regularly things will start improving.
I cant find the link but there are also wrist exercises where you make a fist holding you wrist firm as if you were to punch, and use the other hand to put resistance against it for 10 seconds.Repeat in every direction. Then switch hands. I find them very help full. I spend a lot of time at home on the computer or playing guitar and I do a lot of pressure washing at work. Sometimes the wrists hurt. I also make sure my mouse hand (where i get most of the pain) has enough table space to lay from elbow to wrist. So it can hold the weight of my hand up easier and spreads out the part of my arm receiving pressure on the table.
On July 09 2010 08:38 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote: i played for 8.5 hours and had a bit of shoulder pain in my mouse arm any ideas?
I'm not a doctor, but my guess is that it could just be bad posture, or possibly a problem with one of your vertebrates. Make sure that you have lower and upper back support and that your body is aligned correctly when you are at the computer (ie not hunched over). You could try to make an appt to see a chiropractor, if you have 50 bucks to spare. It's not a bad thing to go regardless, and that's just one thing you can rule out.
When I was getting problems I went, and though it didn't fix anything RSI related, some of the other parts of my spine got snapped back into place which felt nice.
Smgzy, do you have any idea if twisting and cracking your wrists, like you would your ankles, to temporarily relieve pain could be harmful in the long run? Often times I just crack my wrists and this relieves the pain, for the moment.
On July 09 2010 10:24 Freeheals wrote: Smgzy, do you have any idea if twisting and cracking your wrists, like you would your ankles, to temporarily relieve pain could be harmful in the long run? Often times I just crack my wrists and this relieves the pain, for the moment.
I'm not really sure. When I wen to the chiropractor, she did some thing where she cracked the carpal bones in my wrists, but I'm not sure how much it can really do.
It might help, but I haven't actually seen anything about joint cracking being either beneficial or detrimental.
From what I know, it's just gas buildup in your joints that is being released. That's what creates the popping noise.
On July 09 2010 08:38 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote: i played for 8.5 hours and had a bit of shoulder pain in my mouse arm any ideas?
I'm not a doctor, but my guess is that it could just be bad posture, or possibly a problem with one of your vertebrates. Make sure that you have lower and upper back support and that your body is aligned correctly when you are at the computer (ie not hunched over). You could try to make an appt to see a chiropractor, if you have 50 bucks to spare. It's not a bad thing to go regardless, and that's just one thing you can rule out.
When I was getting problems I went, and though it didn't fix anything RSI related, some of the other parts of my spine got snapped back into place which felt nice.
Thanks, i'll try not to play with a hunched back tomorrow but my chair is really shit -_-
On July 09 2010 16:37 Khul Sadukar wrote: Just ordered that vertical mouse. Couldnt find a local store anywhere otherwise i woulda bought it off the shelf regardless of price.
Let me know how it works out. I've been curious about using one of these for a while now.
On July 09 2010 16:37 Khul Sadukar wrote: Just ordered that vertical mouse. Couldnt find a local store anywhere otherwise i woulda bought it off the shelf regardless of price.
Let me know how it works out. I've been curious about using one of these for a while now.
Ive been posting about the evoluvent 3 vertical mouse for a good month, recommending it for anyone for day to day computer use (Switch to the razer for gaming though) It's truly amazing. My Cubital tunnel syndrome went right away. I start to get mild irritation (No numbness now) from a whole day of hardcore gaming (using razer mouse ^^) but I take micro breaks now (I watch my replays between games) and I have not shown any symptoms. My fried suggested it to me, He had major carpal tunnel, he says the condition has majorly reduced. It's kinda funny, about 3 weeks ago i sent Day[9] a 300 word PM regarding this mouse, and now I see it being posted in so many threads :D (He probably didnt even see it, getting so much PM's and such. I'm just glad people here are looking into it, it really is a great product. Perhaps someone should msg Evoluvent with a Team Liquid business proposition. It is quite expensive.
edit: and with surgery, theirs a flab of tissue above the carpal tunnel that causes the irritation (maybe it's a minor muscle?) Getting it cut will reduce nearly 100% of the irritation to the carpal tunnel, similarily, getting the cubital tunnel drilled out a little will also reduce all irritation to that part of the hand. I believe most progamers have atleast one of these surgeries done and this is why they perform at the length they play.
we scbw players have been doing these streches for years.
no but seriously, I've been doing these subconsciously as far as I can remember. Except the hand stretches are more like stick my arms up as far as I can and stretch everything along the way up to the hand. And I do a wrist rolling thing where I make a fist. And I love doing the forearm stretch, I even use that one when actually working out.
Great post. I've had problems with my hand and wrist quite frequently since a rather strange football accident, where I was standing keeper and a friend of mine took a cracking shot. The ball hit me on my jaw, knocked me out (how that happened I have no idea, but clearly keeping isn't my thing) and I landed on my right hand. When I went to the hand surgeon he showed and told me about a lot of the stuff you've mentioned here (particularly the stretches) and instructed me do do them once my hand was all healed up. Ended up not doing surgery and now I'm showing all the symptoms of RSI. I guess spending a very large percentage of my free time on my PC doesn't help.
This post will hopefully prove very useful to my unfortunate right hand. You have my thanks :D
Nice post OP. If anyone has any particularly difficult questions regarding RSI or arthritis or anything related to bones and joints, I can also forward it to my father who is a rheumatologist of over 20 years.
Still havent received the damn mouse. I got an email saying it was sent Monday (from interstate). Its now Thurs night, I call em and they say it was posted Tues night zzz.
Really could have used it today. Im thinking of calling in sick tomorrow, my hand is soo bad. Been doing the wrist stretches and all but it really needs rest (which is damn hard since all I wanna do is play some games lol. If you see me in LoL you know I gave in :p)
I actually looked into buying one of those head band things which controls the mouse pointer. Thought it would be an interesting experiment and training for the brain. Unfortunately it only works with x32 OS so bleh.
Edit: I started using the wrist pad thing that came with my Razer Exactmat. Its awkward but prob for the best until i get this vertical thing (which I completely plan on trying to game with no matter how long it takes to get used to..)
Ffs, theres a 3rd mouse button at the bottom which I just clicked, turns out to be the back button of all things so I lost my post.
Oh well, i'll test it more thoroughly at work tomorrow and report results. First impression: Waay smaller than I imagined and will definitely take getting used to.
On July 26 2010 19:20 Khul Sadukar wrote: Ok I got the mouse finally.
Ffs, theres a 3rd mouse button at the bottom which I just clicked, turns out to be the back button of all things so I lost my post.
Oh well, i'll test it more thoroughly at work tomorrow and report results. First impression: Waay smaller than I imagined and will definitely take getting used to.
interesting. can't wait to hear your impressions once you are used to it.
You can get away playing LoL with it. SC2? forget about it
I guess it will be fine for work. I just happened to call in sick today (i really am) and watched the SC2 Day 9 Party yeaaahhh oh and casually pick up a copy as well..
If I may another stretch to this fine list. From Yoga, it is called Eagle Pose. It helps your upper back stretch quite beautifully. Here is the image of what it looks like, the arm underneath pushes your upper arm across your chest. You should feel it in your back almost instantly, if not stand up do it and bend over.
I've been using the Steelseries Ikari for quite some time now. It's not the most amazing mouse that i've ever used, but i have to say that it has helped my hand position immensely. My pain is only minor now, but after switching back to my other mouse(razer salmosa), I think I will have a much better time now that my hand position has been corrected. I would recommend this mouse to anyone who is experiencing pain because of bad mouse hand posture.
My problem before with other mice was that I would grip the edge with my ring and pinky finger, and my hand would be too curled up. The nice thing about the Ikari is that it has ring and pinky ringer supports which helped me to correct this issue after maybe a month or two of using it. I will probably still use the Ikari for general computer use, but I can't really beat the salmosa when it comes to gaming.
do your settup always as nice as it feels for you, thats common.
i have a challenge for you that suffer from bone, muscle and tendon problems, aka pain: i predict:
1. you suffer self esteem problems focused on the area you do your work and solving problems, maybe at home getting something done or somewhere else. It is always the same, if you want something to happen, you can not do it right now, you learn what ever, you get a conflict exactly at the area the action is projected, like soccer would be the knees, tennis, elbow, computer, fingers, hand wrist and so on. 2. the pain will start if you solved the conflict. this has to do with biological and nature perfectionism. it will exactly stay as long as the starting conflict lasted until the solvation. this is the healing phase. this is the time you normally go to a doctor and get medicine. the time this is lasting is already predetermined. with or without medicine. after the healing phase you are healthy again. like you have been all the time. if you not decided to get poisened by a medicine stopping the natural healing process and get a chronical disease.
test this about yourself, if you get ill, has there been an intense event taking you of guard and you have to solve it alone? the moment of solvation is the starting point of the "illness" aka healing, the illness/healing will exactly match the period conflict was about. (me:I am a alternative healer in germany, here are 2 ways to be allowed to handle patients:you are a medicine degree, or you are a heilpraktiker, what is healing practician in translation. only those are alowed to decide what to do to persons that got ill.)
non the less, next time you get a cough, check if something unexpected happened to you, and the time it started and the time you come ok with it and solve it, so you get the time how exactly long this will be. like time of conflict = time of healing (illness) and the longer it gets the more dangerous it gets. like cancer. non the less it is healing phase but dangerous.
I'd just like to let everyone know that since a year ago, that is, the time that I had a lot of RSI health issues(I couldn't use the computer at all). I can now use the computer for 10+ hours a day without anything but maybe minor pain from time to time(not serious at all). I don't have to take breaks or anything thanks to a great ergonomic setup. I just play games all day long. What I mean is, I'm glad to say that all of the things that I've suggested have actually worked for me, which is a great relief.
RSI is a very serious problem and very daunting to any hardcore gamer once it happens.
I developed tendonitis in my left wrist while playing semi-pro wow arena due to bad keyboard and hand placement. It's a terrible feeling and I've been recovering for over a year now to where I feel even remotely confident I can powergame. So let me add my two cents:
- get comfortable hotkeys. This may seem trivial but it's actually very important. Try to avoid frequent shift or alt plus key combinations, especially with hotkeys you need to spam. Balance hotkeys between your mouse and your keyboard hand.
- get a powerball and use it regularly. It does amazing things for your hand and wrist and you can use it while you are resting.
Hmm, im starting to get some pretty nagging pains in my right hand (mainly the pinky area, it kind of starts in the knuckle and goes up the side of my hand). Im thinking its RSI. I've began doing some of the stretchs, but im confused, do you not want your wrist resting on anything at all? Because im noticing that on my right hand, my wrist is resting on the taple top while my hand does a lot of movements. So should i get a wrist pad? Or just let my wrist hover over?
On December 16 2010 13:56 Dcamp0308 wrote: Hmm, im starting to get some pretty nagging pains in my right hand (mainly the pinky area, it kind of starts in the knuckle and goes up the side of my hand). Im thinking its RSI. I've began doing some of the stretchs, but im confused, do you not want your wrist resting on anything at all? Because im noticing that on my right hand, my wrist is resting on the taple top while my hand does a lot of movements. So should i get a wrist pad? Or just let my wrist hover over?
Edit: Also is resting arms on armrests bad?
Yes. Both of these are bad. You want the bottom of your palm (you can feel two nubby bones at the bottom of your hand palm side), to be resting when you use your mouse. If while you are typing / mousing, you rest any other part of your wrists/forearms on anything it can cause compression which can damage your tendons and your nerves. A wrist rest won't actually do anything. I get pains from compressing my carpal bones/tendons when I use a wrist rest. So either hover or rest your palm on the table.
Notice if you set your hand down on a table, palm side down, that the most comfortable way to do it puts 0 pressure on your wrist. This is for a very specific reason. It's not meant to have pressure. Notice those same bones in your hand are supporting you.
This is why you might experience a tingling feeling if you are doing it too much or too heavily. If you are feeling tingling or numbness, this is a very serious sign that you are doing something wrong, and it could easily go from there to one of the most annoying pains you have ever felt.
Oh yeah I found a program this year that's pretty good on your computer screen. It auto-adjusts the tint of color based on the amount of natural light available so it's better for your eyes at night.
On December 20 2010 11:36 flamewheel wrote: Oh yeah I found a program this year that's pretty good on your computer screen. It auto-adjusts the tint of color based on the amount of natural light available so it's better for your eyes at night.
Bump, this is good stuff I do these exercises almost every day
On December 20 2010 11:36 flamewheel wrote: Oh yeah I found a program this year that's pretty good on your computer screen. It auto-adjusts the tint of color based on the amount of natural light available so it's better for your eyes at night.
yer, optical is onto something there. Look if RSI is such an issue (personally i dont believe in it, you rally shouldnt be that unfit) go ride a bike, seriously it will loosen up the forearms and promote muscle growth (a bit more extremely if you do down hill or motox as i know from experiance , so weid seeing a 65kg bloke with massive forearms and small upper arms)
On January 14 2011 18:41 BordZ wrote: yer, optical is onto something there. Look if RSI is such an issue (personally i dont believe in it, you rally shouldnt be that unfit) go ride a bike, seriously it will loosen up the forearms and promote muscle growth (a bit more extremely if you do down hill or motox as i know from experiance , so weid seeing a 65kg bloke with massive forearms and small upper arms)
First of all what you said, if you have RSI, riding a bike will hurt extremely bad, and will probably cause more problems than you had before.
I had RSI very bad twice in my life, the first time I was much younger and riding my (bmx) bike was a huge mistake, and during the second time I got it, I would cycle a lot for fitness. I very much love cycling and I do it a lot, and I have to say that it hasn't helped me one bit and I've only personally found that during my time of recovery it only irritated my injury. I've always had fit forearms my entire life and it did not prevent me from repetitive stress injury because cycling doesn't provide the core strength and especially the flexibility that these exercises will. Increasing your range of motion is extremely important for long term computer usage.
As a cycling enthusiast, I can personally say that most of the time when I am cycling whether riding on flat ground or going up a hill, my forearms and wrists and upper body are rigid.
I've found that a daily stretching and core strengthening routine targeted on giving you a better range will help you to relax and not tense up at the computer much more than anything else. If anyone finds anything else please tell me, but I can safely say that cycling only hurt my problem.
It's like this: Serious tennis players will develop tennis elbow (a type of RSI) with a bad swing. It has nothing to do with their fitness level, because tennis players are clearly fit and strong in the areas that they need to be, it's just a bad motion that causes injury. This injury, a type of tendonitis, is also referred to as mouse elbow, which comes from poor posture and from doing the wrong type of motion with your mouse.
Very nice post.. I, like many here, have been using computers for a really long time (I'm 26).
I've definitely been feeling some form of pain in both my wrists and forearms. It comes and goes, mostly because I don't play computer games anymore, but even from using the computer too much, it creeps up on me.
I don't know if it's a separate issue, but on my left hand, the thumb frequently gets sharp pains, and if I sort of press the thumbnail in the corner, near the cuticle, it hurts extremely bad. Any kind of quick contact with the thumbnail causes pain.
Anyway, my posture is probably terrible, I've never invested in an ergonomic setup, but once I get a job again, I'm going to spend some money and make some improvements!
On December 20 2010 11:36 flamewheel wrote: Oh yeah I found a program this year that's pretty good on your computer screen. It auto-adjusts the tint of color based on the amount of natural light available so it's better for your eyes at night.
Seriously, my eyes do thank you so much. They feel so relieved that they will spend another night staring on the screen :D
The information this thread offers will help you to spend time at your desk without getting all kinds of diseases. Especially the chair thing... Sitting on a wooden chair right now because the backrest of my other chair broke somehow and now I can lie in front of my computer Consider buying a pc bang chair but the price still does discourage me from buying it :/ But what are a few bugs for one's health.
I got a problem with my elbow due to work (not only computer work) and another stretch was suggested for me.
Put your arm at your side, turn it so your palm is facing away from you (turn it so your thumb goes near your body instead of far away from it). Make a fist, raise your fist towards your elbow while keeping the elbow straight. Hold for 15-30 seconds, I can feel that it does good in the forearm for me.
Might transition well into the finger stretch where you do this and afterwards stretch the fingers (since you already did the fist).
I couldn't find any picture of it though, don't know what it is called in either Swedish or English. :/
Oh and for strengthening, thanks for the notice about bent elbow, I didn't know that, so had been doing them wrong for a bit.
I have to say, that flux software is AMAZING! My eyes actually feel much better looking at my screen after midnight in the darkness. I will keep doing these hand/wrist techniques as I do feel better doing them :-)
On May 09 2011 08:11 Wtfux wrote: I have to say, that flux software is AMAZING! My eyes actually feel much better looking at my screen after midnight in the darkness. I will keep doing these hand/wrist techniques as I do feel better doing them :-)
Yeah, seriously I always wanted something like this. I always wanted my monitor to have the same features as my TV where you could adjust the lighting scheme, but this is 50x better.
This is great stuff... Really wish I could change this desk I have, it's way to high and I feel I'm developing some of these symptoms... can't sleep at times because elbows are hurting but not in a pressed pain way but the nerves having suffered from bad angles.
I read the OP and it was very useful. Definitely gonna have a second look at my setup and see what I can tweak. Also with the hand excercises, I used to do them on a regular basis, to train my forearms and haven't done so in ages but when I would really train them, like with those squeeze things, not only does it add endurance but you also get the feeling of having more control over your actions because you are better connected to the muscle. Idk how that works or if its a placebo, it felt real though.
As for F-Lux, in the health and fitness thread on TL little after new years was my first encounter with this gem. I've been using it on every computer since. I don't really notice it anymore, it feels normal but most of all for anyone having sleeping problems or feeling like they stay up until they get so tired they could pass out before going to bed. Install this! After a couple days it will make you mad sleepy at a more appropriate time and if you actually allow yourself to be tired and go to bed your sleepschedule will shift a couple hours to more normal times.
My hands have been hurting for about a month now, sometime its in the wrist, never much in the elbow/forearm, might just start doing the weights + stressball. I could go to the doctor for free (canada ftw) but i'm scared xrays won't show anything
I've been doing the streches inbetween every game and gonna get the stressball today or tommorow and will use it when not playing sc2 :D:D can't wait to korean it up for 8-10hours whenever im pain free (the muscle still hurts but streches fixes it for 2-3 games at least)
Wow too bad I didn't read this before my problems, although most of them are gone or much smaller now.
Thanks for making this is great!
Also in the last picture/exercise, the hand is extremely red... I'm hoping it was just the picture being tinted or such, it looks like it's about to die o.o
I know most of you game or use the computer more than me at work or school. For most of the years that I played BW, I know I used bad posture while gaming. I've been having some wrist, hand, forearm, and palm pains. Anyways, I have some questions about how you guys use your mouse, keyboard, desk, and chair.
Do you guys hover your hand over the keyboard or do you use a wrist rest?
While using the mouse do you rest your wrist or forearm on the table/mouse pad?
Use a negative tilt for the keyboard?
Use a keyboard tray?
Rest your forearms on a chair arms, or the table for better mouse control?
Do wrist, or finger stretches?
I only have mild discomfort, but I'd like to figure out what I'm doing wrong. I use my palm in both hands as a pivot point for my mouse, keyboard hand. It gets quite sore, and I've always been told to hover over the keyboard and mouse, but I find that uncomfortable. I've always rested my wrist, not my forearm on the edge of the keyboard tray on a mouse pad. Maybe it's my desk/chair height(I'm 6'4), or something else I'm doing wrong. I'm not totally sure.
My chair has arm rests that are higher than my keyboard. This causes blood flow to be limitted in my hands, and often causes huge stress. My solution: just put a pillow on the chair to raise yourself above the arm rests.
Also, stretching before, not after, every session is very important.
I hate to bump old thread but my wrist has been paining me so bad these past few days (right hand IE my dominant one) that I've been unable to type with it let alone play any videogames =/. Any idea with me resting it 100% how long it will be before the pain subsides?
Whenever you're not doing anything take your hands of the mouse/keyboard to give em some rest.
Take a small break every hour / 2 hours
These 2 will help prevent! the pain, but not really cure it.
Dacendoran that's very hard to say over the internet tbh but if you can't even type with it now it's probably going to take several weeks to fully recover.
Flux is a very annoying program. many times it turns pink when you don't want it to. I recommend DimScreen for easier control of the screen brightness (darker during night, lighter during day), or just adjusting your brightness accordingly every few hours.
Just wanted to thank the OP. My right hand started hurting a few weeks ago, I started using the left one to compensate and now that one is injured too. Knowing a few basics will surely help, it's annoying as hell to be injured like this and not knowing what to do to get better (or if it will get better at all).
An interesting thing I just found out. I had hear of people using hand braces while sleeping to completely remove RSI, so I tried to emulate the brace.
What I do is I sleep with my head on both my arms, my hands in the position commonly used for prayer. The next day after trying this, I immediately felt I could play for longer periods of time, and that my RSI was gone.
One can also sleep with both their hands underneath their pillow, palms against the head and flat against the bed.
In addition to the exercises posted above, today I massively decreased the speed of my mouse. Over the years I had gradually geared it up so stupidly ultra fast that it was making my wrist tense up, straining the tendons. So I went from 5200 DPI, 6/11, SC2 sensitivity off, 3/10 device speed, 1920/1080 resolution --> 1000 DPI, 5/10 device speed. I noticed how the guys like Gumiho and MarineKing use their whole arm to control the mouse, takes them about 6 inches to move the cursor the whole way across the screen. After grinding a few hours on ladder, I feel almost no pressure on my wrist (just a slight ache from damage done in the past). Gonna be a nightmare relearning how to play with my mouse hand. Worth it in the long run though
On January 22 2013 07:13 Aerisky wrote: Wouldn't your mouse moving quickly mean you have less strain because you're not moving your wrist as much, though? Enlighten me :O
You tighten your wrist just to get precise control of the ultra super high sensitive mouse.
On January 22 2013 07:13 Aerisky wrote: Wouldn't your mouse moving quickly mean you have less strain because you're not moving your wrist as much, though? Enlighten me :O
If it only takes 1cm to move your mouse across the screen, you may not be flicking your wrist as much (your fingers do all the movement) - but when you do this, you tighten all the fragile muscles and tendons inside your wrist. The little muscles in your wrist are only designed for short bursts of pressure. I'm no doctor, but I think it's a lot healthier to spread the pressure across a combination of fingers, hand, wrist, forearm and shoulder, just like you would playing piano.
On January 22 2013 07:13 Aerisky wrote: Wouldn't your mouse moving quickly mean you have less strain because you're not moving your wrist as much, though? Enlighten me :O
If it only takes 1cm to move your mouse across the screen, you may not be flicking your wrist as much (your fingers do all the movement) - but when you do this, you tighten all the fragile muscles and tendons inside your wrist. The little muscles in your wrist are only designed for short bursts of pressure. I'm no doctor, but I think it's a lot healthier to spread the pressure across a combination of fingers, hand, wrist, forearm and shoulder, just like you would playing piano.
Oh I see...hm that does make a lot of sense.
Now I'm tempted to do that, but I'm still afraid of messing up my hand from moving around a ton ><
i sit like a perv with a hunched back jacking it in the bushes. its awful but no problems after many many years gaming.... i played sports for most my life tho now that im done maybe ill start having issues lol
I am a kinesiology student, and I have had my share of problems, so I can probably clear up the misconception on what really is the issue and the things currently used to help with it.
There are 2 categories of pain for the wrist, though sometimes you can fall under both categories. 1. Pain from tendon damage 2. Pain from nerve compression (the median nerve) - it can be caused by (1.)
Tendons in the wrist are usually damaged by repetitive motions (repetitive strain injury), though sudden high force impacts can also damage tendon.
Repetitive strain injuries(RSI) happen over time, as you load your tendons more and more, if you look under a microscope you can start seeing micro-tears of the collagen. Your body can heal this,but it is a very slow process, and your body can't keep up if the damage that is being done is faster than it can heal it.
When the damage has become too excessive, smaller tears add up to larger tears (we are still speaking of microscopic damage, not large visible tears). This is when you get tendinitis; the inflammation of the tendon. The inflammation process takes 3-4 weeks, and after that pain should drop down significantly. Inflammation is actually a very healthy process, because tendons get very small amount of blood compared to muscles, when there is excessive damage, you need inflammation to bring more blood and nutrients to help heal. Thus taking anti-inflammatories is not really a good idea (advil, aleve, etc)
The appropriate use of anti-inflammatories is a whole different issue, so I won't cover it.
When you get tendinitis, 1. your tendon gets more blood flow, and there is also some angiogensis (the formation of new blood vessels from nearby branching blood vessels) 2. The tendon thickens and enlarges anywhere from a 1 mm to 1cm. This is done by putting down immature collagen around the tendon. This is a protective adaption, by thickening and stiffening the tendon with immature collagen, the tendon can take stress from movement while trying to heal the damage. Eventually the immature collagen will be removed and the tendon will go back to its original thickness.
Wrist pain can be pain from: 1.the tendon injury itself and/or 2.pain from the thickening of the tendon causing compression of the median nerve.
What can you do to fix it?
If this is your first time getting tendinitis --> Rest, Ice, compression, elevation --> Don't take NSAIDs (Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) - These disrupt the whole inflammation process and don't allow your tendon to heal the damage properly. It can also delay the process by which your tendons thickness goes back to normal, possibly leaving you with a damaged tendon with scar tissue and thicker than usual.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When tendon pain continues for longer than 3 weeks, it is no longer tendinitis in most cases. This is called tendonopathy or tendonosis; the process of degeneration of the tendon, without the presence of any inflammatory conditions.
I mentioned before that when you get inflammation, there is a formation of new blood vessels in the tendon to aid in blood flow to the tendon. It is known that nerves accompany blood vessels very closely, and it is thought that sustained pain in a tendon that has failed to heal is because of these newly formed blood vessels and nerves that have formed.
Treatment??
1. There are many studies on on eccentric training for the treatment of tendonopathy (you can google scholar this, or go on Pubmed)
2. Nitogylcerin patches. It is thought that Nitric oxide is an important regular in the health of tendons. Studies have proven that is works, but only with exercise (such as eccentric training)
3. Sclerosing injections (basically its a certain percentage of ethanol that gets injected where you have pain). These are not done yet in most hospitals, but clinical studies showed that the alcohol destroys the nerves that have formed within the tendon, and overtime the biomechanical properties of the tendon went back to normal.
4. Low level laser therapy - This one is lacking significant data to prove that it works, but there are clinical studies that have shown that it does work especially with an eccentric training regime.
What is lacking evidence for treatment? 1. Ultrasound - it heats deeper tissues without affecting skin temperature, it is essentially a more effective version of using heat topically. In the literature there are some studies showing it helps, but most studies show that there is no significant benefit.
2. Stretching - This is commonly prescribed as a preventative measure for injuries, but there are studies that show that there are no significant positive results from stretching in injury prevention. Though stretching certainly isn't a bad thing, I do it myself all the time.
3. NSAID's (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) - For tendinitis, and tendonopathy, I would not suggest taking these. For Tenosynovitis (inflammation of the sheath of the tendon), NSAIDs can be beneficial.
4. cortisone injections (don't get these, it will lead to significant problems later on such as tendon degeneration, ligament degeneration, joint destruction and many more)
For the wrist, Tendonosis or tendonopathy is especially important to pay attention to , because it could mean the tendons have not healed properly, and it could be thicker than usual. Thicker tendon will result in compression of the median nerve and lead to carpal tunnel syndrome. The pain from Carpel tunnel syndrome will be different than tendinitis, as you might feel numbness, tingling, burning, sharp pain from your wrist into your hand and fingers. Tendonosis does not go away on its own, you have to treat it properly. Once the tendon has begun to heal properly, the size of the tendon should go back to normal and alleviate any pressure on the nerve.
I have listed the best treatments above for tendonosis, but these are not widely used for some odd reason. Here are the commonly used treatments right now if you go to a doctor.
1. Night splint - this is actually a pretty good tool, when you sleep you might twist your wrists around and it might get stuck under your body if your flipping around all night, it could cause further injury if you already have tendinitis.
2. Cortisone injection - provides temporary relief but causes catabolism (the destruction of tissues). If it is injected into a tendon, it will significantly damage the tendon and cause disorganization of the mature collagen, leaving you with a weak stiff tendon. If you are going to have this done, it be should injected near the tendon, but not into the tendon. Some say one injection isn't bad, but multiple repeated injections spread out over a couple of months is bad. But I think you should avoid these all together.
3. Surgery - Done by releasing the transverse carpal ligament. This surgery will mean that your wrist will be unstable because they have essentially cut a ligament, meaning your muscles will have to do more of the stabilization, possibly leading to future strains and injuries. This surgery does not fix tendonopathy, it merely releases the pressure on the median nerve.
If you want links to some studies, just message me, I will try to provide.
Just thought I'd say this is the third google result for 'gaming and rsi', be aware! Maybe this should be a sticky on your forums or something, I don't know, "gaming and health" or something?
I don't actually play starcraft anymore but it's quite nice to me that I found the info I needed on something going back to when I was tiny. I used to borrow my little brother's starcraft CD when I was little and ended up not giving it back til I had finished it due to loving the story in StarCraft (the voiceacting and drama being better than much of TV, really) (I did try multiplayer at one point but I liked playing co-operative better with my little brother and random internet friends i made, really The singleplayer story was the best part for me really, I wish they'd continued that in a meaningful way, I don't really have much respect for the apparently hollywood-ised sequel game)
Anyway: I was looking for info because I am getting a bad feeling after pain in my fingers after, I think, spending too much free time playing games! And well, a bit worried, even more so after reading this stuff... Especially that last post just before mine, saying doing stretches haven't been shown in research to actually make any difference??? I'd love some sources for that??? (any physiotherapists or the like on the forums, I guess?) Eep.
I have a form of RSI not mentioned here as far as I can see.
Thoracic outlet syndrome. There is a nerve/blood vessel cluster that goes from the neck to the arm. Your muscles can tense and compress this area.
Image:
I didn't even realize my muscles were so tense. It turns out, your upper body should be extremely relaxed when at the computer. I think I would subconsciously tense my shoulder/neck when I was in situations with lots of action / stress.
I also realize that I associated the tensing of certain muscles with others. If I flexed my bicepts, I would tend to flex my whole body with the effort. If I wanted to type faster, I would tend to tense my shoulders as if I was "flexing" my type speed.
So far recovery seems to be pretty quick. I'm doing all the listed stretches, and I'm doing a meditation-like thing to progressively relax my muscles. I find that finding each muscle in my shoulder, and then flexing / unflexing them individually is by far the best way to relax the region.
I'm also trying to type while staying perfectly relaxed. It is going to be a while until I can train myself to stay relaxed in dota 2. One moment of weakness and suddenly my entire body would be tensed and I would be stressed out.
EDIT: In addition to the stretches, resting my elbows on my desk instead of letting them hang really helps. It seems to not activate the muscle that is bothering me if my shoulders are ~3cm above fully lowered level.
Holy shit, believe it or not, I think my breathing technique is causing me to have tight scalenes and, as shown in this imagine, scalene muscle tightness can cause pain all along your arm and shoulders.
It turns out that your neck and chest muscles like to help your diaphragm out. Many of your neck muscles are attached directly to the lung. If you have healthy breathing, they should only help the diaphragm during cardio, or when you are postured in such way that the diaphragm is having a hard time.
For some people, their diaphragm barely moves at all. The diaphragm doesn't work very well at all when one is leaned forward. They get into the habit of having a LARGE burden put on their upper body to "lift" the lungs in order to create more of a vacuum below the lungs.
After investigating a bit by feeling the flesh under my clavicle, I found that I could really feel my neck muscles pulling up hard on my chest cavity every time I breathed. My diaphragm was hardly moving. After breathing properly for 5 minutes, my arm feels much better. This makes sense -- I could really feel some tightness deep within my right shoulder. I probably had one of my upper body muscles on my dominant side doing most of the work for breathing !
This might be a placebo. We'll see. It makes sense tho.
EDIT: I found a really good way to relax these scalene muscles. You sit down with your chair on low, your elbow resting on the table. Then you do diaphragmatic breathing while making circles with your head. You know you are doing the diaphragmatic breathing properly when you feel a tightness in your neck when you breath in and tilt your head back and towards your shoulder.
Edit: I actually think this info didn't help me in the slightest.
Alright guys I'm almost all healed up. Here is the summary of what treatment I found effective:
For me, I only got RSI pain when I was on the computer. All other wrist related activities were fine. What does this mean? It means that my body trained itself somehow to limit blood flow around the tendons in my arm ONLY when I was exposed to the trigger. When blood flow is limited, tendons get many times bigger than they once were, in order to expose themself to more blood. This causes nerve compression and RSI.
So, my solution was to do exercises every day to disassociate the pain and tightning of muscles with the use of my wrist. The important thing to do is pay extreme attention to how your muscles feel when you do there exercises. Try to see if you can manage to "not" feel any pain, and if it feels comfortable, pay lots of attention to that.
Two exercises I found to work EXTREMELY well were 1. Wringing a towel back and forth as hard as I can and 2. Rice bucket training
Do not underestimate the rice bucket, you can get as much or as little resistance as you want with it.
I limited my exposure to computers to make me 'forget' that typing was my trigger.
Muscle awareness and stretching. It is VERY important to exhale when you stretch. Your muscles relax when you exhale. If you don't exhale, you will be contracting your muscles and they will NOT stretch. Contraction != stretch. This was a big problem for me. I found ways to stretch my forearms (day9 stretches), my tricepts, and my rotator cuff.
The rotator cuff muscles are a big deal to stretch because nobody even knows they exist and tension can go unnoticed. This video This video lets you get an idea of how to stretch these muscles.
BIG EDIT: Also I managed to find the anterior scelene muscle in the neck. It is actually really cool. Shirtless, look in the mirror and put your arm straight out. Turn your hand from "holding a can" to "holding a mouse". You can actually see the muscle pop out and move forward in the neck. No wonder this muscle feels tense after holding it tight so long!! XD
EDIT2: Also make sure when you stretch you must NOT stretch so that you feel pain. This will reinforce your brain's idea that your wrists should be in pain and should have fucked up blood flow. If you have trouble stretching without feeling pain, try just letting your hand "fall" into the stretch position through relaxation rather than force. It can take a while to feel your way into relaxation.
Alright guys, just wanted to say that I found the TRUE source of my pain. All of the stuff I've been doing has been rehabbing everything from the top down. I was over 60% free of any pain and my hands could move properly, but I still felt something was missing. My hands felt uncomfortable and my shoulder was always tight. I felt uncomfortable overall and my arms tired very easily.
I found the last remaining thing that needed to be fixed. It was muscle knots (myofascial trigger points) on my upper back and shoulder. These caused everything else to mess up in a chain reaction. They were the base of the pyramid.
I did foam rolling and lacrosse ball therapy to solve the issues. I couldn't actually feel pain in my back -- it felt like it was in my shoulder all the way down into my arm. But when I lied down onto that roller, I was in agony. Certain spots on my back would give needle like pain if I pressed too hard. After an hour of crushing my back muscles with that roller, all the sharp pains were gone. The next day, I did it again. I felt only 20% of the pain I initially did. My entire upper body felt 100% more comfortable and powerful compared to before.
Then today I found the worst point. It was right below the shoulder blade on my right side. I couldn't get to this with the foam roller, but I got a dense foam-rubber ball and lied right on it. It was the worse pain I ever felt. Took like 30 mins on that one spot for it to go away. But the pain felt exactly the same as the pain from my RSI. This spot was always in this pain, but my body was covering it up and bringing it back as other symptoms. The ball brought it to the front.
I recommend EVERYONE just grab a piece of pipe, log, balls, and just lie on them. It takes no money and can literally change your life. Just look up the therapies and try them out. You can buy products like foam rollers etc and they do the same thing.
Thank you very much for the replies, I forgot to check back on this
I went to the hospital a few weeks ago because I had really severe pain in my back and a tingling painful sensation in fingers, I was worried they might be linked and that maybe I had spine damage somehow (I was told that's usually only from severe force though) since I was getting that numbness in my hands, which can also be a precursor for carpal tunnel syndrome, I've read also. What they said was that it could be a compression of the nerves caused by muscle sprain in the upper back which can be triggered bad posture when sitting, chair that isn't ergonomic, etc - I didn't know you could have that "serious" a feeling from something less serious, so it's a big relief, but it goes back to the kind of issues here.
What I was recommended to by the NHS (which unlike in America healthcare is not for profit, so can be trusted to be unbiased) doctor and nurse I talked to at A&E was to go on ibuprofen 400mg(2x200mg pills) and paracetamol 1000mg(2x500mg pills) for a few days (both of which are very common and cheap, I looked up the names to check they'd work for America and they have a few different brand names there, but those are the actual proper scientific names so you don't get scammed by companies branding stuff with different names to sell it for more) - The point of that was that ibuprofen isn't just a painkiller but anti-inflammatory which means it can help swollen muscles relax.
However though my back's fine now, I still have pain in my fingers that comes back worse when playing games sometimes, though at other times it feels completely fine - and even sometimes hurts when I'm in bed at night with hands completely flat, it really worries me a bit, but I don't really know what to do in the long term to make things better, this seems to be a real weakness in getting medical advice that when stuff is more long term you're pretty much left to try work things out yourself until something major and possibly irreversible happens it seems like, I'm just worried that something worse might happen now.
If any of you pro gamer types (or anyone who has contact info to ask them to weigh in) have have any guru advice to dish out for this thread, I'm sure it could help a lot of people
I've been dealing with finger pain for the last 6 years, and outer forearm pain (close to the elbow) for the last 2.5 years.
The one thing that's been effective for me, and along the same lines as DeltruS, has been self massage of trigger points in my arm muscles. Rolling a lacrosse ball down the culprits has been an enormous relief for my arms, and has also largely eliminated my finger pain. In my case, the extensor digitorum and extensor indicis muscles were setting my fingers on fire. The ultimate plan is to calm down both my arms, then strengthen the muscles with plenty of targeted exercise and posture improvement.
As for what to massage, this book told me where to look and how to do it. Those with arm problems, note the section on scalenes (neck muscles), and how they can affect your arms. Make sure you read the introductory sections as well, especially the parts on how to properly self massage and not mash areas with a pulse (i.e. arteries) and/or lymph nodes.
After years of physical therapists and on/off ibuprofen, I'm pretty pissed nobody's applied what's in this thing.
Anyway, hope it helps somebody out. Took me 6 years to find it after all.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5845/workstation12tips.png)
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![[image loading]](http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5530/exercises.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.ergocanada.com/images/flextend_closeup.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://saveyourself.ca/imgs/scalene-referral-m.jpg)
