So where is the human species headed? Are you optimistic about the future? Will peace triumph on earth? Or will there be a clash of civilizations? Will humanity be able to conquer its problems? Do we at least have good chances? Can humanity even agree on what its problems are? Or will differences in culture//morals//knowledge lead to conflict? I'd love it if there are knowledgeable TL'ers who want to paint some broad strokes about history and the future. But I'd also be interested to see your average, less informed TL'ers share their gut feeling in the poll below.
Poll: Are you Optimistic or Pessimistic about the Future?
Optimistic (260)
60%
Pessimistic (172)
40%
432 total votes
Your vote: Are you Optimistic or Pessimistic about the Future?
I'm optimistic but at the same time it's kind of human nature to fight which sucks >.< Like I've heard my History Professor say a million times before, "History repeats its self." You need to know what happened in the past to know what happens in the future. Since the human race has millions of years of war in the past, I don't think there is going to be a sudden change in our instincts or habits. IT would be very nice to see it, but with the Americans having the economic problem and the whole Global Warming sham scaring people, either the world is going to come together to help, or tear each other apart to be on top. Judging by history, it will probably be the latter.
A true peace is impossible, there can be an acceptance and most people can get along on the surface but so long as one single type of people is different from another...there will be conflict, its human nature.
At the current level of globalization, the progress of mankind cannot be undone. Cultural development will follow in its path which I think will always be with better and worse times.
I'm optimistic about what's going to happen in the next 100 years. Once world peace has been mostly achieved, I think the main priority should be space exploration/colonization to ensure the human race has a much longer future.
Nothing is being done about overpopulation which is the root of all environmental problems. Inevitably the atmosphere will be worse with more humans on earth leaving a carbon footprint, the finite oil quantitites will be fought over because of developing nations (and more humans!) needing oil, no to mention even being able to feed everyone adequately.
I'm usually not THAT pessimistic but wrt the immediate future (this century), I just can't be that happy :x
But in all seriousness it's going to be unfathomable for us to imagine how people will think, act, live and even look like in the future. Can you picture taking someone from the 16th century and showing them all the marvels of an iPhone? It'd be beyond their comprehension. It'll be the same with us and whatever happens in the future.
Also, what's even more fascinating is I was reading physicstoday and based on computer simulations and certain scientific trials they made the best possible prediction science can give us today on how humans will presumably evolve in the next few millennium.
On May 03 2010 20:04 PanoRaMa wrote: Nothing is being done about overpopulation which is the root of all environmental problems. Inevitably the atmosphere will be worse with more humans on earth leaving a carbon footprint, the finite oil quantitites will be fought over because of developing nations (and more humans!) needing oil, no to mention even being able to feed everyone adequately.
I'm usually not THAT pessimistic but wrt the immediate future (this century), I just can't be that happy :x
Im optomistic our population will be sustainable and will eventually plateau at a sustainable level (although this is anyones guess) as for the chance of war I believe nuclear proliferation means large scale war (between super powers) is very unlikely. I am also optomistic that second (already very much underway) and third generation biofuels will solve our oil dependencies while helping fix world hunger as we will not be useing food to produce fuel. Also renewable energies becoming more and more efficient will help to satisfy our power needs. Very much looking forward to all the interesting new technologys so I guess I'm (overly?) optomistic about the future!
Optimistic, but only because I have very low expectations of the human species anyway. I think we can easily go another 50 years without a large scale war.
On May 03 2010 20:09 Warrior Madness wrote: It's gonna be awesome bro. MY LIFE FOR AIURRTHHH.
But in all seriousness it's going to be unfathomable for us to imagine how people will think, act, live and even look like in the future. Can you picture taking someone from the 16th century and showing them all the marvels of an iPhone? It'd be beyond their comprehension. It'll be the same with us and whatever happens in the future.
Also, what's even more fascinating is I was reading physicstoday and based on computer simulations and certain scientific trials they made the best possible prediction science can give us today on how humans will presumably evolve in the next few millennium.
Some funny pictures man, but you are totally wrong. Nothing is beyond our comprehension. We have already imagined way beyond what we will ever achieve. Maybe millions of years in the future if we are still going we might somehow advance past the most absurd science fiction but even then it's still conceivable, I bet sci-fi gonna be pretty fucked up in 50 years lol.
lol its gonna be a bitch. First, because there is a whole list of things that will happen. Economics will collapse, ok it may not, but our current econimc crisis is not over - we are just hanging by with a minimum of margin atm. Africa just gonna be war upon war. There is no food in Africa and as we approach 9000000000 ppl on earth the lack of food gonna spread to other continents. With hunger and farmine spreading so will wars. Furthermore oil gonna run dry, not completely dry cause thats gonna take another 100 years, but enough so that oil gonna cost like too much, so only the most important things will have enough priority to get transported, say between Europe and China. Thus all kinds of daily things will get more expensive. Having cars running on gas will be too expensive and we would be forced to live closer to our place of employment + the places where we do our shoppings.
So then we have global warming. The earth is at least destined to go 4 degree warmere (at the current pace) since the industrial revolution and thats like a global catastrophe anyway right there. Usa and China could be fighting over who is the "best" country in the world. The dollar is gonna loose its status as global currency. I dont really have an idea what the consequences of this will be, but im sure its not nothing.
Usa, Europe and China is like gonna stop sending help to the developping countries, and close their borders cause the ppl who live in the developping countries are gonna make an exodus and flee to the industrialised countries. With so many ppl on the run the industrialised countries are gonna make a "wall" or something to keep the masses out and the places just outside the borders are gonna be a place for desease and illnesses because its gonna be too crowded there.
Ofcourse if you are 50 year old already you can just ignorre all of this, and i wish i was 50 year old now but im not
About 70% optimistic. With science evolving, farming will get better and better. Food production will become more and more efficient. Water will be better recycled. When less developed countries catch up in development, their populations will stabilise.
Plus if you want to look at history you should look at the Cold War and how not one nuclear missile was released.
I'm pretty optimistic. As always, there will be big fluctuations between times of prosperity and times of crisis, but we'll keep evolving exponentially, like we always have. That's unless something terrible happens, and we're wiped off the face of Earth, like dinosaurs, but there's little chance for that to happen.
That being said, it's really petty that human life is so short. I imagine that before we hit the overpopulation wall and exhaust our natural resources, we'll improve the efficiency of our living and industry and find some form of travel, that will take us to other planets, where we can prosper. And I'd love to be there when that happens .
Then again, I think we're already living in a pretty interesting era - the internet age. We're connected with the whole world at any time, which enables us to communicate and work with all the people around the world. Literally endless libraries of knowledge are open to us, and I imagine our brain will adapt to soaking more and more information as we progress. The only sad thing is, that famine and poverty still exist, and it will probably take a lot of time, before this is fixed.
you make an interesting point. To think that we could, right now, be on the very cusp of total destruction and therefore are the most evolved humanity will ever be. Perhaps that's how they felt at the pinnacle of the Roman Empire lol. Maybe even at the pinnacle of the Native Americans' perfected nomadic lifestyle.
@sc4k: Maybe, that's why I say things tend to fluctuate. Even if we get completely wiped out one day, I'm sure that after some time a new civilization will evolve, that will surpass our former.
I do hope that we can change but it is just the fact thy history does repeate its self and it ii incredibly hard to change habits over hundreds of years old. But we have changed quiet abit. Like human rights and everything, so who knows? Maybe (hopefully) I am wrong :D
LOL the members of TL have played Starcraft so much and is now lead into an optimistic appraoch to the future because in starcraft the human mankind came through our current stage obiously somehow, so why cant we also o_____o
For some reason, this feels relevant. I've been watching this dude's youtube videos recently, and a lot of what he says makes sense, even if he deals with rather whacky concepts to begin with. I know what you guys are gonna say, I'm just some crazy hippie, but I think this guy knows what he's talking about and has it right for some reason. Here's an example video. + Show Spoiler +
Watch some of this one at least. It sounds weird at first, but give him a couple minutes and you'll see what I mean.
If you're interested, maybe this one next, or at least a small part of it:
Pessimistic. Money decides where mandkind will go, meaning a tiny minority decides the development for the vast majority through their short-sighted monetary goals. In not many years, oil will dry up, and even if we might have found better, cleaner and cheaper energy sources by then, the monetary ruling elite will use their power to halt the extent of these new energy sources to preserve their position of power as the ruling elite. This will result in the continued rape of second and third world resources, the machination of the majority of the first world citizens, and war for an obsolete power source.
If we survive the energy war, a new power elite for the new energy source will take over, and continue the cycle.
On May 03 2010 23:30 plated.rawr wrote: Pessimistic. Money decides where mandkind will go, meaning a tiny minority decides the development for the vast majority through their short-sighted monetary goals. In not many years, oil will dry up, and even if we might have found better, cleaner and cheaper energy sources by then, the monetary ruling elite will use their power to halt the extent of these new energy sources to preserve their position of power as the ruling elite. This will result in the continued rape of second and third world resources, the machination of the majority of the first world citizens, and war for an obsolete power source.
If we survive the energy war, a new power elite for the new energy source will take over, and continue the cycle.
Hey man. I'm part of that ruling elite and I resent being called short-sighted.
On May 03 2010 23:30 plated.rawr wrote: Pessimistic. Money decides where mandkind will go, meaning a tiny minority decides the development for the vast majority through their short-sighted monetary goals. In not many years, oil will dry up, and even if we might have found better, cleaner and cheaper energy sources by then, the monetary ruling elite will use their power to halt the extent of these new energy sources to preserve their position of power as the ruling elite. This will result in the continued rape of second and third world resources, the machination of the majority of the first world citizens, and war for an obsolete power source.
If we survive the energy war, a new power elite for the new energy source will take over, and continue the cycle.
Hey man. I'm part of that ruling elite and I resent being called short-sighted.
History is not counted in years or decades, so unless you have plans on how to mold mankind for the next centuries, then you are short sighted.
Also, unless you're a part of the 1% at the top, you're just a part of the machinized citizens of the first world.
On May 03 2010 23:30 plated.rawr wrote: Pessimistic. Money decides where mandkind will go, meaning a tiny minority decides the development for the vast majority through their short-sighted monetary goals. In not many years, oil will dry up, and even if we might have found better, cleaner and cheaper energy sources by then, the monetary ruling elite will use their power to halt the extent of these new energy sources to preserve their position of power as the ruling elite. This will result in the continued rape of second and third world resources, the machination of the majority of the first world citizens, and war for an obsolete power source.
If we survive the energy war, a new power elite for the new energy source will take over, and continue the cycle.
Hey man. I'm part of that ruling elite and I resent being called short-sighted.
History is not counted in years or decades, so unless you have plans on how to mold mankind for the next centuries, then you are short sighted.
Also, unless you're a part of the 1% at the top, you're just a part of the machinized citizens of the first world.
Not only am I part of the ruling elite, I'm a leader of the ruling elite.
At least regarding wars Human kind has improved drastically.
Before modern societies and such were established roughly 1% of the entire human population died each year by another human hand in small scale wars and raids mostly between tribes and clans.
If this would be same today it would mean that 1% of 6,000,000,000 people would die each year which would result into 60,000,000 people each year. This equals the total deaths of the second world war however this death rate was produced under 6 years (1939 to 1945). So It's allot less violent today, even during the second world war. We are going in the right direction.
On May 03 2010 20:56 zealing wrote: you better be optimistic about the future or else your going to be miserable your whole life as we ain't going anywhere but into the future.
On May 03 2010 23:30 plated.rawr wrote: Pessimistic. Money decides where mandkind will go, meaning a tiny minority decides the development for the vast majority through their short-sighted monetary goals. In not many years, oil will dry up, and even if we might have found better, cleaner and cheaper energy sources by then, the monetary ruling elite will use their power to halt the extent of these new energy sources to preserve their position of power as the ruling elite. This will result in the continued rape of second and third world resources, the machination of the majority of the first world citizens, and war for an obsolete power source.
If we survive the energy war, a new power elite for the new energy source will take over, and continue the cycle.
I don't think you quite realize just how much having no oil will plunge the world in chaos. Nobody is going to care that much about money.
If we have no viable alternative when oil runs dry our world will quickly look very different. Without oil you have no fuel, no transportation of food, no electricity, no nothing. When the transportation of goods stop...everything stops.
On May 03 2010 23:44 Integra wrote: At least regarding wars Human kind has improved drastically.
Before modern societies and such were established roughly 1% of the entire human population died each year by another human hand in small scale wars and raids mostly between tribes and clans.
If this would be same today it would mean that 1% of 6,000,000,000 people would die each year which would result into 60,000,000 people each year. This equals the total deaths of the second world war however this death rate was produced under 6 years (1939 to 1945). So It's allot less violent today, even during the second world war. We are going in the right direction.
check it out. this dude is happy because the rate at which we kill one another rises less meteorically than the rate at which we produce offspring.
On May 03 2010 23:30 plated.rawr wrote: Pessimistic. Money decides where mandkind will go, meaning a tiny minority decides the development for the vast majority through their short-sighted monetary goals. In not many years, oil will dry up, and even if we might have found better, cleaner and cheaper energy sources by then, the monetary ruling elite will use their power to halt the extent of these new energy sources to preserve their position of power as the ruling elite. This will result in the continued rape of second and third world resources, the machination of the majority of the first world citizens, and war for an obsolete power source.
If we survive the energy war, a new power elite for the new energy source will take over, and continue the cycle.
Hey man. I'm part of that ruling elite and I resent being called short-sighted.
History is not counted in years or decades, so unless you have plans on how to mold mankind for the next centuries, then you are short sighted.
Also, unless you're a part of the 1% at the top, you're just a part of the machinized citizens of the first world.
Not only am I part of the ruling elite, I'm a leader of the ruling elite.
Wether you are or not is unverifiable on the internet. It's also irrelevant for this thread.
Respect your own thread enough to not be trolling in it.
On May 03 2010 23:30 plated.rawr wrote: Pessimistic. Money decides where mandkind will go, meaning a tiny minority decides the development for the vast majority through their short-sighted monetary goals. In not many years, oil will dry up, and even if we might have found better, cleaner and cheaper energy sources by then, the monetary ruling elite will use their power to halt the extent of these new energy sources to preserve their position of power as the ruling elite. This will result in the continued rape of second and third world resources, the machination of the majority of the first world citizens, and war for an obsolete power source.
If we survive the energy war, a new power elite for the new energy source will take over, and continue the cycle.
I don't think you quite realize just how much having no oil will plunge the world in chaos. Nobody is going to care that much about money.
If we have no viable alternative when oil runs dry our world will quickly look very different. Without oil you have no fuel, no transportation of food, no electricity, no nothing. When the transportation of goods stop...everything stops.
Actual wars kill everyone, not just the soldiers.
When oil starts to run out, then ones who has amassed most will sit with power. These are the ones with monetary power, since anyone with half a brain understands that investing in something everyone needs, but is swiftly getting less of, gives you power of leverage and pure income through sales.
War for oil will start before we run out, since when we're out of it, we're all in the same pile of shit, and warring about that issue won't benefit anyone.
Sure, a world with no oil is close to unfathomable considering how much we depend on it, but alternatives are being produced, and while they will be supressed for as long as the ruling elite has oil, the world will not simply cease to function when oil ends. We will move to new power source/s, with a new ruling elite, which will carry on like the current does, enriching themselves and striving for their short-term goals at the cost of everyone else.
Also very optimistic because technological evolution is growing exponentially. Look at the basic stuff. Clothes, a technological solution to the problem of cold winters and harsh climates. Books, a basic form of artificial memory enhancement and data transfer. This stuff took thousands of years to develop. In the last fifty years we've had high yield crops and nuclear power. In the last twenty the internet and the staggering advances in computing. In the last ten society has embraced the virtual world across all fronts, from e-commuting to online shopping, social websites and dating services. Forget that X-men shit, if you just look around you and think about how quickly we're evolving technologically then you can't help but be optimistic. Right now I'm digitising my thoughts on the subject and sharing them with thousands of people around the world. Does that not sound awesome to anyone else?
On May 04 2010 00:09 KwarK wrote: Also very optimistic because technological evolution is growing exponentially. Look at the basic stuff. Clothes, a technological solution to the problem of cold winters and harsh climates. Books, a basic form of artificial memory enhancement and data transfer. This stuff took thousands of years to develop. In the last fifty years we've had high yield crops and nuclear power. In the last twenty the internet and the staggering advances in computing. In the last ten society has embraced the virtual world across all fronts, from e-commuting to online shopping, social websites and dating services. Forget that X-men shit, if you just look around you and think about how quickly we're evolving technologically then you can't help but be optimistic. Right now I'm digitising my thoughts on the subject and sharing them with thousands of people around the world. Does that not sound awesome to anyone else?
Yes.
Technology is past the point where we don;t know what we are doing.. We know exactly what's going in a myriad of different fields of technology, especially medical sciences. I think we will have a cure for almost everything in the next 50 or so years.. Soon we will be able to replace any limb or organ with a robotic one and live for longer. The only problem I see is overpopulation but the earth will take care of that at some point.
On May 03 2010 23:21 Badjas wrote: zFly I have seen that movie already on dvd where it's titled 'The love guru'.
I haven't seen that movie, but I'm pretty sure from the reactions I've seen people make to that movie and from your post here that these youtube videos are not at all like that. I'm sure you didn't even watch the first 45 seconds of either of them.
Edit: I just watched some trailers for it on youtube and I'm confident you didn't even give this guy a chance. I can insult you too, but I choose not to at the present.
On May 03 2010 23:30 plated.rawr wrote: Pessimistic. Money decides where mandkind will go, meaning a tiny minority decides the development for the vast majority through their short-sighted monetary goals. In not many years, oil will dry up, and even if we might have found better, cleaner and cheaper energy sources by then, the monetary ruling elite will use their power to halt the extent of these new energy sources to preserve their position of power as the ruling elite. This will result in the continued rape of second and third world resources, the machination of the majority of the first world citizens, and war for an obsolete power source.
If we survive the energy war, a new power elite for the new energy source will take over, and continue the cycle.
Hey man. I'm part of that ruling elite and I resent being called short-sighted.
History is not counted in years or decades, so unless you have plans on how to mold mankind for the next centuries, then you are short sighted.
Also, unless you're a part of the 1% at the top, you're just a part of the machinized citizens of the first world.
Not only am I part of the ruling elite, I'm a leader of the ruling elite.
Wether you are or not is unverifiable on the internet. It's also irrelevant for this thread.
Respect your own thread enough to not be trolling in it.
On May 03 2010 23:30 plated.rawr wrote: Pessimistic. Money decides where mandkind will go, meaning a tiny minority decides the development for the vast majority through their short-sighted monetary goals. In not many years, oil will dry up, and even if we might have found better, cleaner and cheaper energy sources by then, the monetary ruling elite will use their power to halt the extent of these new energy sources to preserve their position of power as the ruling elite. This will result in the continued rape of second and third world resources, the machination of the majority of the first world citizens, and war for an obsolete power source.
If we survive the energy war, a new power elite for the new energy source will take over, and continue the cycle.
I don't think you quite realize just how much having no oil will plunge the world in chaos. Nobody is going to care that much about money.
If we have no viable alternative when oil runs dry our world will quickly look very different. Without oil you have no fuel, no transportation of food, no electricity, no nothing. When the transportation of goods stop...everything stops.
Actual wars kill everyone, not just the soldiers.
When oil starts to run out, then ones who has amassed most will sit with power. These are the ones with monetary power, since anyone with half a brain understands that investing in something everyone needs, but is swiftly getting less of, gives you power of leverage and pure income through sales.
War for oil will start before we run out, since when we're out of it, we're all in the same pile of shit, and warring about that issue won't benefit anyone.
Sure, a world with no oil is close to unfathomable considering how much we depend on it, but alternatives are being produced, and while they will be supressed for as long as the ruling elite has oil, the world will not simply cease to function when oil ends. We will move to new power source/s, with a new ruling elite, which will carry on like the current does, enriching themselves and striving for their short-term goals at the cost of everyone else.
Alternative are being produced?
We have no TRUE alternative right now. All the alternatives we have the technology for don't even remotely come close to the efficiency of oil. The base issue is that every damn vehicle on the planet runs on either diesel or some other oil based fuel. How exactly are stores going to get food to them if the trucks they use can't even get to them?
Sure everyone has oil stocks but only enough to last MAYBE a year if you do heavy heavy rationing of it. Rationing means anything that isn't absolutely required will immediately stop receiving oil.
You really think that today's society will instantly revert to farming for their own foods without a little anger there? Everything that you take for granted will cease to function.
The only real way this will stop is if we figure out cold fusion, otherwise we are screwed. Cold fusion will also be hard to monopolize properly because it generates SO MUCH power with so little effort.
There's only one way E-sports can go.. Which is up!!! and just imagine... Blizzard pumping out games like sc3,sc4,sc5 every single year... episodic expansions!! DLC!!! and all the fanboy wars! YEAAhhh
well, that's at least for the entertainment side. everything else I'm not too sure
my guess is that if you take all the combined troubles we will face from now till in 100 years minus global warming, then it will (somewhere about) equal the trouble we will get from global warming
Seeing as how china is set up to be the next super power, I'd be more optimistic about the future if they allowed more freedom. Or maybe I'm wrong, maybe their collective mindset will overall lead to more technological leaps and bounds for the human race on a whole.
On May 03 2010 23:44 Integra wrote: At least regarding wars Human kind has improved drastically.
Before modern societies and such were established roughly 1% of the entire human population died each year by another human hand in small scale wars and raids mostly between tribes and clans.
If this would be same today it would mean that 1% of 6,000,000,000 people would die each year which would result into 60,000,000 people each year. This equals the total deaths of the second world war however this death rate was produced under 6 years (1939 to 1945). So It's allot less violent today, even during the second world war. We are going in the right direction.
check it out. this dude is happy because the rate at which we kill one another rises less meteorically than the rate at which we produce offspring.
That I'm happy over this, well yea, it would be pretty fucking bad otherwise And this is how it was in the world at one point.
On May 03 2010 23:21 Badjas wrote: zFly I have seen that movie already on dvd where it's titled 'The love guru'.
I haven't seen that movie, but I'm pretty sure from the reactions I've seen people make to that movie and from your post here that these youtube videos are not at all like that. I'm sure you didn't even watch the first 45 seconds of either of them.
Edit: I just watched some trailers for it on youtube and I'm confident you didn't even give this guy a chance. I can insult you too, but I choose not to at the present.
I don't mean to insult. The movie I mentioned is a comedy, the clips you posted are for real world application, I know the difference. But the guys' looks are quite a good match and it's the same kind of character so I couldn't help but point that out.
On May 03 2010 23:30 plated.rawr wrote: Pessimistic. Money decides where mandkind will go, meaning a tiny minority decides the development for the vast majority through their short-sighted monetary goals. In not many years, oil will dry up, and even if we might have found better, cleaner and cheaper energy sources by then, the monetary ruling elite will use their power to halt the extent of these new energy sources to preserve their position of power as the ruling elite. This will result in the continued rape of second and third world resources, the machination of the majority of the first world citizens, and war for an obsolete power source.
If we survive the energy war, a new power elite for the new energy source will take over, and continue the cycle.
Hey man. I'm part of that ruling elite and I resent being called short-sighted.
History is not counted in years or decades, so unless you have plans on how to mold mankind for the next centuries, then you are short sighted.
Also, unless you're a part of the 1% at the top, you're just a part of the machinized citizens of the first world.
Not only am I part of the ruling elite, I'm a leader of the ruling elite.
Wether you are or not is unverifiable on the internet. It's also irrelevant for this thread.
Respect your own thread enough to not be trolling in it.
On May 03 2010 23:54 Jayme wrote:
On May 03 2010 23:30 plated.rawr wrote: Pessimistic. Money decides where mandkind will go, meaning a tiny minority decides the development for the vast majority through their short-sighted monetary goals. In not many years, oil will dry up, and even if we might have found better, cleaner and cheaper energy sources by then, the monetary ruling elite will use their power to halt the extent of these new energy sources to preserve their position of power as the ruling elite. This will result in the continued rape of second and third world resources, the machination of the majority of the first world citizens, and war for an obsolete power source.
If we survive the energy war, a new power elite for the new energy source will take over, and continue the cycle.
I don't think you quite realize just how much having no oil will plunge the world in chaos. Nobody is going to care that much about money.
If we have no viable alternative when oil runs dry our world will quickly look very different. Without oil you have no fuel, no transportation of food, no electricity, no nothing. When the transportation of goods stop...everything stops.
Actual wars kill everyone, not just the soldiers.
When oil starts to run out, then ones who has amassed most will sit with power. These are the ones with monetary power, since anyone with half a brain understands that investing in something everyone needs, but is swiftly getting less of, gives you power of leverage and pure income through sales.
War for oil will start before we run out, since when we're out of it, we're all in the same pile of shit, and warring about that issue won't benefit anyone.
Sure, a world with no oil is close to unfathomable considering how much we depend on it, but alternatives are being produced, and while they will be supressed for as long as the ruling elite has oil, the world will not simply cease to function when oil ends. We will move to new power source/s, with a new ruling elite, which will carry on like the current does, enriching themselves and striving for their short-term goals at the cost of everyone else.
Alternative are being produced?
We have no TRUE alternative right now. All the alternatives we have the technology for don't even remotely come close to the efficiency of oil. The base issue is that every damn vehicle on the planet runs on either diesel or some other oil based fuel. How exactly are stores going to get food to them if the trucks they use can't even get to them?
Sure everyone has oil stocks but only enough to last MAYBE a year if you do heavy heavy rationing of it. Rationing means anything that isn't absolutely required will immediately stop receiving oil.
You really think that today's society will instantly revert to farming for their own foods without a little anger there? Everything that you take for granted will cease to function.
The only real way this will stop is if we figure out cold fusion, otherwise we are screwed. Cold fusion will also be hard to monopolize properly because it generates SO MUCH power with so little effort.
Transitional power technology includes electricity and gas (no, not 'gas' as the american slang for oil-based fuel, but actual gas) for cars and trains, with also hydrogen hybrids and biofuel solutions extending our deadline. Airplanes and big-scale naval transportation will be screwed, but the world will not cease functioning although physical globalization will probably be reversed somewhat.
Mark yourself the word transitional though - these are patchwork solutions at best, and will only delay the inevitable. I won't theorize about potential future energy sources, since there's enough wild suggestions out there already.
I'll get optimistic once we stop trying to build spaceships to propel us out of this planet and doing other trivial shit which doesn't go past being interesting (science), and start fixing our moral issues which haven't improved but merely displaced since we started existing.
On May 04 2010 00:40 Railz wrote: Seeing as how china is set up to be the next super power, I'd be more optimistic about the future if they allowed more freedom. Or maybe I'm wrong, maybe their collective mindset will overall lead to more technological leaps and bounds for the human race on a whole.
I don't think china could ever become a threat to western countries. I can see how china's current development with respect to patents and copyright could force more freedom in western countries as a matter of necessity (being able to compete with china), but I think that's a pipe dream.
In 50 years or so (within most of our lifetimes), Europe will look like Arab North Africa, the US like Latin America; western culture will be gone. Russia will disappear from the map, its vast territory divided between Turkey, Japan, and China. Africa will look pretty much the same. The Asians, despite being the most advanced people will not manage to colonize space, just as they weren't interested in colonizing on Earth. There will be a lot of terrorism, racism, nationalism, and blood feuds. Eugenics will be tried in a serious way, but the result will be a disappointment. History will be forgotten, and people will lose their ability to remember things in their day to day lives. Religious piety will be very strong, but the religions will tend to be tribal rather than universal. General satisfaction with life will not change very much one way or the other, because it never does or could.
I think it's interesting how most popular conceptions of the future, as in movies and science fiction novels, always depict it as some kind of scientific utopia gone very wrong, maybe they are right.
On May 03 2010 23:44 Integra wrote: At least regarding wars Human kind has improved drastically.
Before modern societies and such were established roughly 1% of the entire human population died each year by another human hand in small scale wars and raids mostly between tribes and clans.
If this would be same today it would mean that 1% of 6,000,000,000 people would die each year which would result into 60,000,000 people each year. This equals the total deaths of the second world war however this death rate was produced under 6 years (1939 to 1945). So It's allot less violent today, even during the second world war. We are going in the right direction.
check it out. this dude is happy because the rate at which we kill one another rises less meteorically than the rate at which we produce offspring.
On May 04 2010 01:01 Cloud wrote: I think it's interesting how most popular conceptions of the future, as in movies and science fiction novels, always depict it as some kind of scientific utopia gone very wrong, maybe they are right.
Poll: The future will look like
Another NSFW kind of planet that rhymes with the first option (9)
82%
Planet of the Apes (2)
18%
11 total votes
Your vote: The future will look like
(Vote): Planet of the Apes (Vote): Another NSFW kind of planet that rhymes with the first option
On May 04 2010 00:46 Cloud wrote: I'll get optimistic once we stop trying to build spaceships to propel us out of this planet and doing other trivial shit which doesn't go past being interesting (science), and start fixing our moral issues which haven't improved but merely displaced since we started existing.
I can't help but be pessimistic about the future. I just don't see how the human race will survive when major environmental crisis' are on the horizon with little to no regard on solving them. For example, global warming has been proven to exist but efforts to curve it are substantially low by the 2 largest oil consumers in the world (US and China). The drive for corporate profit result in neglect for environmental well being. I honestly don't see the earth surviving the next 200 years without a significant structural and economic overhaul.
This mentality has brought me to the point that I refuse to have children. There is no way I'll bring a child into this fucked up world to deal with all the shit we refuse to fix in the present.
AFAIK nothing negative incoming. Violence is at historic lows, science on the rise etc etc. Optimistic. Never been a better time to live on Earth as an ape.
I have far above average education MY future should be alright, mankinds future however is not looking so hot.
Distracted by the daytoday problems we dont care much about how we are changing the enviroment around us and there is no way we will be able to leave this planet for quite a while. People should look more to Venus and see what can happen to an earthlike planet faster than you think.
On May 04 2010 06:35 LaNague wrote: I have far above average education MY future should be alright, mankinds future however is not looking so hot.
Distracted by the daytoday problems we dont care much about how we are changing the enviroment around us and there is no way we will be able to leave this planet for quite a while. People should look more to Venus and see what can happen to an earthlike planet faster than you think.
Eh it would take a whole hell of a lot of CO2 for us to become 1/4th as volatile as Venus is. We will know long before that happens.
and personally i think the future that we have coming is the worst of all- nothing's gonna change, mediocrity will still be the prevalent trend of humanity.
I think we've got too many lunatics with nuclear weapons in their hands to be headed towards anything bright. We've got people slaving away for $8.00 an hour (go capitalism) doing dirty jobs, while some fat ass in a suite sits on his ass all day flipping through files and makes millions.A lot of rich people horde money to themselves, and aren't happy with all their "success" anyways. We've got corruption in our governments, police, and other figures of authority, and gangs that grow more and more powerful. On the other side of the world we have religious fanatics blowing themselves up in the name of some God, and hacking other people up with machetes. Life is about collecting as many little green pieces of paper as you can. We all depend on limited resources that are being depleted, and nobody cares enough to find a new way. We're potentially destroying our only planet with harmful gas emissions - though this is debatable, but still the idea is out there that it's possible and people aren't willing to change anything even if it is. We're all living longer, pushing our burdens on the younger generations to look after us when we're too old and deccaying to wipe our asses.
With difficult times still ahead, I still think we shall persevere. Humankind has always been in some sort of crisis and of course there will be some damage caused, but we can always rebuild.
I am a person who enjoys living on the fly. so, in the end we all die. that is about it. whatever comes in between then and now i'll just have to accept and deal with.
The U.S. will still be a major power but a hollow one, as we are broke and the corporations will have all the power and not want to invest in this country, and with Oil someday drying up the U.S. will be fucked. As we should have ended our dependence on foreign energy 40 years ago. The China economic bubble may burst.
If we fail to check global warming then we are all fucked. I'm sure religion will go through it's end of days scenario at some point in the future so hopefully one of them does not have the launch codes.
Hopefully space exploration will have further backing with colonization and limited outposts already established.
On May 04 2010 00:46 Cloud wrote: I'll get optimistic once we stop trying to build spaceships to propel us out of this planet and doing other trivial shit which doesn't go past being interesting (science), and start fixing our moral issues which haven't improved but merely displaced since we started existing.
what do you think happens when this world overpopulates? if anything, we need to devote more time and money investing in that compared to the absurd amounts we spend on other crap.
On May 04 2010 00:46 Cloud wrote: I'll get optimistic once we stop trying to build spaceships to propel us out of this planet and doing other trivial shit which doesn't go past being interesting (science), and start fixing our moral issues which haven't improved but merely displaced since we started existing.
On May 04 2010 07:52 HazMat wrote: I can't see humans getting a job in the future. Robots will do everything, including making more robots. It'll be pretty hard to live without work.
God I wish YouTube had this speech.
"The wars of the future will not be fought on the battlefield or at sea. They will be fought in space, or possibly on top of a very tall mountain. In either case, most of the actual fighting will be done by small robots. And as you go forth today remember always your duty is clear: To build and maintain those robots."
Lol, humanity sucks at improving in the most efficient manner. Sometimes we improve, most of the time, we run into solid brick walls conceived from our own selfishness.
On May 04 2010 08:15 buhhy wrote: Lol, humanity sucks at improving in the most efficient manner. Sometimes we improve, most of the time, we run into solid brick walls conceived from our own selfishness.
There's about 4000 years of human progress that says otherwise. Living conditions have improved at an exponential rate, along with our body of knowledge. Barring some sort of 6-sigma catastrophe, I think the human race will be all good for at least another millennium.
On May 04 2010 08:15 buhhy wrote: Lol, humanity sucks at improving in the most efficient manner. Sometimes we improve, most of the time, we run into solid brick walls conceived from our own selfishness.
There's about 4000 years of human progress that says otherwise. Living conditions have improved at an exponential rate, along with our body of knowledge. Barring some sort of 6-sigma catastrophe, I think the human race will be all good for at least another millennium.
I said in the most efficient manner. That 4000 years of progress could probably be attained in half or a third of the time by a selfless race.
On May 04 2010 08:15 buhhy wrote: Lol, humanity sucks at improving in the most efficient manner. Sometimes we improve, most of the time, we run into solid brick walls conceived from our own selfishness.
uhh, ok
Sometimes when I read history books I am astounded at how much better things are today. Sure, we are not the most efficient, but to deny that thing have gotten better over the last 100 years would be sheer idiocy.
i just find there to be little correlation between technological advances and a purported advancement/refinement of human nature. So you can have a higher quality of life, physiologically, through advances in food production and such, but I don't find it connected to an overall higher happiness level.
I guess what i'm trying to say is the more things change, the more they stay the same.
On May 03 2010 20:09 Warrior Madness wrote: It's gonna be awesome bro. MY LIFE FOR AIURRTHHH.
But in all seriousness it's going to be unfathomable for us to imagine how people will think, act, live and even look like in the future. Can you picture taking someone from the 16th century and showing them all the marvels of an iPhone? It'd be beyond their comprehension. It'll be the same with us and whatever happens in the future.
Also, what's even more fascinating is I was reading physicstoday and based on computer simulations and certain scientific trials they made the best possible prediction science can give us today on how humans will presumably evolve in the next few millennium.
and in 50 years by a race of psychic-mega-savants....your point is?
That humanity has hardly advanced in the most efficient manner. Remember religion? Remember how it held by science by several hundred years?
However, we haven't had a benchmark to compare our progress to, except primitive lifeforms on Earth, thus it is easy to say humanity has gone a lone way.
optimistic because if you go backwards 2000 years and then compare living conditions 100 years after that in succession, you will find that they have generally improved for each century.
pessimistic because the more technologically advanced we become the more likely complete or near complete extinction becomes
I'm kinda optimistic about the future, and all the new technology, but I just hope that there won't be like 500 more "End of the world" days like 2012.
yes we've had lots of wars and there's lots of reasons to think we will continue to have them. but if we measure success in those area by violence we can see that violence has reduced considerably over time. even ww2 and recent breakouts in war is nothing compared to the amount of violence that took place in the past. violence still does occur yes, but it isn't as much as you think and a lot less than compared to the past. when we're exposed to things frequently like plane crashes and violence we think they happen more than they do, this is called the availability bias/error. of course the media enhances that for us.
On May 04 2010 09:03 TheZelot wrote: I'm kinda optimistic about the future, and all the new technology, but I just hope that there won't be like 500 more "End of the world" days like 2012.
well you'll get your wish if 2012 really is the end of the world
If we can deal with the overpopulation issue then I am optimistic. I strongly believe our race will survive indefinitely, but whether or not we have some shitty times ahead of us has yet to be determined imo.
The consensus on this forum is merely aping the Gibbonesque faith in perpetual modernity, two hundred years later, with inferior eloquence, inferior learning, and shallower perspective.
Proof that even the most brilliant men become the fools of time.
On May 03 2010 20:09 Warrior Madness wrote: It's gonna be awesome bro. MY LIFE FOR AIURRTHHH.
But in all seriousness it's going to be unfathomable for us to imagine how people will think, act, live and even look like in the future. Can you picture taking someone from the 16th century and showing them all the marvels of an iPhone? It'd be beyond their comprehension. It'll be the same with us and whatever happens in the future.
Also, what's even more fascinating is I was reading physicstoday and based on computer simulations and certain scientific trials they made the best possible prediction science can give us today on how humans will presumably evolve in the next few millennium.
Some funny pictures man, but you are totally wrong. Nothing is beyond our comprehension. We have already imagined way beyond what we will ever achieve. Maybe millions of years in the future if we are still going we might somehow advance past the most absurd science fiction but even then it's still conceivable, I bet sci-fi gonna be pretty fucked up in 50 years lol.
Never ever say never. Remember that quote from the head of the British patent office back in the late 1800's "Everything that can be invented has been invented"?
You're falling into that trap of limiting your mind.
On May 04 2010 09:45 MoltkeWarding wrote: The consensus on this forum is merely aping the Gibbonesque faith in perpetual modernity, two hundred years later, with inferior eloquence, inferior learning, and shallower perspective.
Proof that even the most brilliant men become the fools of time.
I'm not pessimistic or optimistic, I'm making use of realism and all I see is that the path we are headed is not a pretty one. We've been living in an unsustainable way for much too long already. I don't believe scientific progress will help our cause at all, how could it. Natural resources cannot be replicated. Livestock farming and industrial agriculture has done an enormous amount of damage on our ecosystem...
If we don't drastically modify our food production and distribution systems globally, we're going to run out of fossil fuel, topsoil, and fresh water a few decades down the road. Just like any other animal species that's overshot its carrying capacity, the excess population is going to succumb to starvation and disease, there's going to be some serious environmental degradation, further lowering carrying capacity, and the population and carrying capacity at the end of the crash is going to be considerably lower. I'm betting we're going to see gigadeaths by the end of this century. Happily I'm not going to be around to collect.
On May 04 2010 10:44 Hollow wrote: I'm not pessimistic or optimistic, I'm making use of realism and all I see is that the path we are headed is not a pretty one. We've been living in an unsustainable way for much too long already. I don't believe scientific progress will help our cause at all, how could it. Natural resources cannot be replicated. Livestock farming and industrial agriculture has done an enormous amount of damage on our ecosystem...
If we don't drastically modify our food production and distribution systems globally, we're going to run out of fossil fuel, topsoil, and fresh water a few decades down the road. Just like any other animal species that's overshot its carrying capacity, the excess population is going to succumb to starvation and disease, there's going to be some serious environmental degradation, further lowering carrying capacity, and the population and carrying capacity at the end of the crash is going to be considerably lower. I'm betting we're going to see gigadeaths by the end of this century. Happily I'm not going to be around to collect.
Woorrd, people who look solely on increases in standards of living and technology are shortsighted. There are more to a bright future for humanity than flashy trinkets and more fast food to eat.
On May 03 2010 20:09 Warrior Madness wrote: It's gonna be awesome bro. MY LIFE FOR AIURRTHHH.
But in all seriousness it's going to be unfathomable for us to imagine how people will think, act, live and even look like in the future. Can you picture taking someone from the 16th century and showing them all the marvels of an iPhone? It'd be beyond their comprehension. It'll be the same with us and whatever happens in the future.
Also, what's even more fascinating is I was reading physicstoday and based on computer simulations and certain scientific trials they made the best possible prediction science can give us today on how humans will presumably evolve in the next few millennium.
Some funny pictures man, but you are totally wrong. Nothing is beyond our comprehension. We have already imagined way beyond what we will ever achieve. Maybe millions of years in the future if we are still going we might somehow advance past the most absurd science fiction but even then it's still conceivable, I bet sci-fi gonna be pretty fucked up in 50 years lol.
Never ever say never. Remember that quote from the head of the British patent office back in the late 1800's "Everything that can be invented has been invented"?
You're falling into that trap of limiting your mind.
I'm limiting my mind with the statement "nothing is beyond our comprehension"? LOL
I'm rather optimistic. I feel that even with the wars, famines, and terrorism the world is still better than it use to be. I think that we will continue to have wars and many other kinds of human suffering forever, but the average quality of life will continue to improve.
On May 04 2010 09:45 MoltkeWarding wrote: The consensus on this forum is merely aping the Gibbonesque faith in perpetual modernity, two hundred years later, with inferior eloquence, inferior learning, and shallower perspective.
Proof that even the most brilliant men become the fools of time.
lol, good argument
what i want to know is how you got the impression that he was actually attempting an argument. have you seen Moltke argue before? the chances of it being shorter than a good-sized novel are slim.
and by the way Moltke's right. he's got a longstanding habit of being crucially, painfully right. i love that dude.
I thought about the future sometimes, and having some great ideas from science-fiction books and films together with analyzing our present to find the hidden seeds of the future (if you look at history every period prepared the next), i found 3(+1) possible futures :
1 - I call this the post-industrial era. Techonological progress will allow for a decentralization of all production processes, ending the industrial era and doing alot do lessen pollution. This is the future with robots and clean renewable energy sources. Money-less star trek like economy will replace the market economy. This option will happen if we develop robotic or otherwise automatic processes to create all the items we need locally (with the first applications of nanotechnology) and if we move to clean and renwable energy. It will end with the full development of nanotechnology i guess, no idea where it goes from there. This is the future of space sci-fi films, at least most of them. War is no longer the driving force of history.
2 - This is the corporations at war scenario. Progress is partially halted by corporate interests. National states will disappear and be replaced completely by corporations, who will fight for the remaining resources on the planet. Might end with final self-destruction and extinction or with one corporation winning. In this scenario progress and history are still driven by war. Progress won't go towards nanotech and clean energy but more directly towards space colonization and weapon development, without the proper means to do it (option 1 has alot more chances to colonize the whole solar system than this). But in case humanity won't just self-destruct, once there's only one corporation ruling the whole planet, progress might resume properly.
3- Worst scenario, (the apolalypse)basically we consume all resources, don't try to find replacements but instead fight over what's left and self-destruct our civilization. Humanity might survive with little to no technology left and might go exctinct later due to climate change. Nuclear winter followed by a nuclear summer and maybe a glaciation. Hard for our species to survive all that. Or start over in a few thousand years and try again.
4 - New middle age scenario. Neutral scenario, will evolve in one of the aforementioned 3. Progress is stagnated by new oscurantism, no new science allowed and a new feudal system arises, with the masses not having access to all those goods anymore, the planet will be able to sustain the population, which will also drop. A really boring scenario. Like planet of the apes without apes.
I voted optimistic because even with all the problems i can see the seeds of the post-industrial era being the strongest, followed by the seeds of a corporation war scenario. While the second isn't the best possible it's still not too bad. I don't see the worst scenario or the boring neutral one currently being prepared, this might change in the future.
So we have to hope that robotics, nanotech and clean energy will be developed in time.
With improvements in technology come improvements in quality of life. Technology improves exponentially.
With increase in population comes an increase in scarcity of resources. Population increase exponentially.
I think for the middle class and up life will only be better in the future, for those below middle class it could get increasingly bad... but the poor have been dying for millenia, what's new. At least they're not slave labor (mostly, not counting certain parts of Africa, middle-eastern women, and Dubai laborers among others) any more?
I am mostly optimistic because of things like this: http://www.ted.com/talks/craig_venter_is_on_the_verge_of_creating_synthetic_life.html and other technological advances. However, we need to find new ways to feed our people and sustain our transportation of people and goods with less environmental impact. Will that happen in time? I hope so, but the clock is ticking.
On May 03 2010 21:05 sc4k wrote: About 70% optimistic. With science evolving, farming will get better and better. Food production will become more and more efficient. Water will be better recycled. When less developed countries catch up in development, their populations will stabilise.
Plus if you want to look at history you should look at the Cold War and how not one nuclear missile was released.
The problem is that people assume these are all good things.
'Mo' money, Mo' problems' type of thing.
If people live longer and there is more food etc. Then we have a whole new set of problems. More pollution, more corruption, overpopulation, etc. etc.
This "being pessimist", "blaming others" or waiting for "someone else to do it" attitude is pretty annoying. A big change is the sum of a multitude of small changes. Some cities in NA or Europe are paving the way with fully recyclable buildings, green roofs, water collecting and various energy saving alternatives, not to mention promoting public transportation or riding your bicycle to work.
I'm surprised nobody brought up the water scarcity, there's plenty of energy sources if you care as much for environmental costs as we do now. If there's one thing you can trust those huge energy corporations of doing, is making the shift to new energy sources or alternatives once they become viable. Until then its gonna be about how high can they set the price of gas until people stop paying at the pump.
My thoughts on the matter, either all the problems that concern us today are solved or postponed resulting in the world continuing to function more or less the same in the future, or one of those problems will fail to be solved/postponed resulting in a cascading effect in which all other pending problems fail to be solved by their deadline leading to a new dark age from which the world will have to be rebuilt. And no I do not want to speculate on the probability of these two possibilities...
After reading the Ecology of Commerce, I got pretty damm depressed about how little corporations were doing and how unlikely it was taht they would ever fix themselves.
There haven't exactly been that many big strides in science
lol????????? take a physics, biology, or chemistry class. take a look at the mechanics behind the LHC.
We have discovered penicillin, we have sent people to the moon, we have gone from phonelines to gigabyte-speed internet, we have gone from comprehensive libraries in the big cities to all knowledge available to all people with internet access across entire regions. we have gone from electroshock therapy to brain surgery, we have mass water purification systems, we have surgical breakthroughs on a regular basis. and this is all in the last like fifty years... look at where we are compared to 150 years ago and it's amazing. The travel time from the Americas to Europe has gone from months to hours.
I think life will improve, but I really hope that my generation (I'm 22) experiences some sort of huge world-changing event. I could get excited about the idea of a war where I have to defend my family (as opposed to one of aggression like our recent wars). It doesn't have to be like WWII, but something of that scale. Maybe it could be a huge natural disaster. I don't know, I just want a big change.
well the near future seems bright but long term looks bad its only a matter of time like 50-100 years i bet that world war 3 is gonna start over the limited resources, people all over the world in third world country will be several overpopulated, less water, less resources, world is gonna be fucked over in terms of climate and global warming = natural disaster on regular basis, imo humans have alrdy reaching their peak and the decline will start...its on a matter of time. every great empire eventually crumbles ^_^ sad but hey its not in our lifetimes most likely so what ever
I really don't think WW3 will ever happen...like maybe Russia or some middle east country or N Korea will go crazy with their nukes, but the civilized world realizes how undesirable nuclear war is.
On May 03 2010 20:09 Warrior Madness wrote: It's gonna be awesome bro. MY LIFE FOR AIURRTHHH.
But in all seriousness it's going to be unfathomable for us to imagine how people will think, act, live and even look like in the future. Can you picture taking someone from the 16th century and showing them all the marvels of an iPhone? It'd be beyond their comprehension. It'll be the same with us and whatever happens in the future.
Also, what's even more fascinating is I was reading physicstoday and based on computer simulations and certain scientific trials they made the best possible prediction science can give us today on how humans will presumably evolve in the next few millennium.
Some funny pictures man, but you are totally wrong. Nothing is beyond our comprehension.
Please describe 18 spacial dimensions to me...
There's a lot that's beyond the comprehension of the human brain, just like there is much beyond the comprehension of an ape's brain. Unfortunately, for the most part you can't really name things you can't comprehend since most of them aren't observable or have been incorrectly reduced into things we can comprehend.
Ok you are just going out of your way to disagree with my point....
What I am saying is if some guy from the future showed me his time machine, his warp drive, his whatever that is probably way beyond anything we will ever achieve I would be like "cool". Show a roman an Ipod and he would be like WTFOMFG... this is the point he was making... that the future to us will be as incomprehensible as the present technological world would be to a caveman...
I'm saying uh.. no... it wouldn't be. I can imagine just about anything given sci-fi/the amazing world we live in today.
Don't be such an idiot and ask me to describe 18 special dimensions and actually read the posts you are quoting next time, it was perfectly obvious what he was saying and what I was saying.
I'm sorry if English isn't your first language and you are unable to pick up what I am actually trying to say and are only capable of seeing the statement "nothing is beyond our comprehension" and then deciding to pick that apart for whatever reason... I forgive you.
If however English is your first language I feel it was pretty clear what I meant. Am I not right? I mean even if things get way more ridiculous than is even conceivable, people having their own personal black hole/time machine/teleporter/invisibilityness wrist watches I am still 100% down with that in the present day. Just how fucked up is he expecting the future to become that it would be considered incomprehensible to today? I don't think that can ever happen..
One thing that is really beyond the comprehension of the human brain is how the universe began, the fact that we exist is a paradox because according to everything we know something can't come from nothing.... so if we didn't originate we have been here for eternity which also seems impossible/has evidence to suggest otherwise. I'm very well aware that there are certain things the human brain simply cannot comprehend (not at the moment with given knowledge/thought pattern) but as I've already explained this is not what I meant in my original statement. I meant there will be nothing in the future along the lines of society/technology that will be beyond our comprehension, I can already comprehend systems and technologies that will almost certainly never exist due to their complexity.
On May 06 2010 21:24 Reason wrote: Ok you are just going out of your way to disagree with my point....
What I am saying is if some guy from the future showed me his time machine, his warp drive, his whatever that is probably way beyond anything we will ever achieve I would be like "cool". Show a roman an Ipod and he would be like WTFOMFG... this is the point he was making... that the future to us will be as incomprehensible as the present technological world would be to a caveman...
I'm saying uh.. no... it wouldn't be. I can imagine just about anything given sci-fi/the amazing world we live in today.
Don't be such an idiot and ask me to describe 18 special dimensions and actually read the posts you are quoting next time, it was perfectly obvious what he was saying and what I was saying.
I'm sorry if English isn't your first language and you are unable to pick up what I am actually trying to say and are only capable of seeing the statement "nothing is beyond our comprehension" and then deciding to pick that apart for whatever reason... I forgive you.
If however English is your first language I feel it was pretty clear what I meant. Am I not right? I mean even if things get way more ridiculous than is even conceivable, people having their own personal black hole/time machine/teleporter/invisibilityness wrist watches I am still 100% down with that in the present day. Just how fucked up is he expecting the future to become that it would be considered incomprehensible to today? I don't think that can ever happen..
One thing that is really beyond the comprehension of the human brain is how the universe began, the fact that we exist is a paradox because according to everything we know something can't come from nothing.... so if we didn't originate we have been here for eternity which also seems impossible/has evidence to suggest otherwise. I'm very well aware that there are certain things the human brain simply cannot comprehend (not at the moment with given knowledge/thought pattern) but as I've already explained this is not what I meant in my original statement. I meant there will be nothing in the future along the lines of society/technology that will be beyond our comprehension, I can already comprehend systems and technologies that will almost certainly never exist due to their complexity.
You're flat out wrong if you believe that. Just as there are many things a pre-human brain cannot comprehend that we can, there are many things that whatever-we-evolve-into will be able to comprehend that we can't. It's pretty dense to think that you've evolved as much as any species will ever evolve. Don't get so defensive about being wrong man.
and whose to say we can't understand concepts? airplanes to a pre 20th century person: a giant building turned on its side which can carry people into the sky and travel at speeds greater than any ship or horse
sounds pretty fucking ridiculous BUT you can understand the concept of it
On May 06 2010 21:24 Reason wrote: Ok you are just going out of your way to disagree with my point....
What I am saying is if some guy from the future showed me his time machine, his warp drive, his whatever that is probably way beyond anything we will ever achieve I would be like "cool". Show a roman an Ipod and he would be like WTFOMFG... this is the point he was making... that the future to us will be as incomprehensible as the present technological world would be to a caveman...
I'm saying uh.. no... it wouldn't be. I can imagine just about anything given sci-fi/the amazing world we live in today.
Don't be such an idiot and ask me to describe 18 special dimensions and actually read the posts you are quoting next time, it was perfectly obvious what he was saying and what I was saying.
I'm sorry if English isn't your first language and you are unable to pick up what I am actually trying to say and are only capable of seeing the statement "nothing is beyond our comprehension" and then deciding to pick that apart for whatever reason... I forgive you.
If however English is your first language I feel it was pretty clear what I meant. Am I not right? I mean even if things get way more ridiculous than is even conceivable, people having their own personal black hole/time machine/teleporter/invisibilityness wrist watches I am still 100% down with that in the present day. Just how fucked up is he expecting the future to become that it would be considered incomprehensible to today? I don't think that can ever happen..
One thing that is really beyond the comprehension of the human brain is how the universe began, the fact that we exist is a paradox because according to everything we know something can't come from nothing.... so if we didn't originate we have been here for eternity which also seems impossible/has evidence to suggest otherwise. I'm very well aware that there are certain things the human brain simply cannot comprehend (not at the moment with given knowledge/thought pattern) but as I've already explained this is not what I meant in my original statement. I meant there will be nothing in the future along the lines of society/technology that will be beyond our comprehension, I can already comprehend systems and technologies that will almost certainly never exist due to their complexity.
You're flat out wrong if you believe that. Just as there are many things a pre-human brain cannot comprehend that we can, there are many things that whatever-we-evolve-into will be able to comprehend that we can't. It's pretty dense to think that you've evolved as much as any species will ever evolve. Don't get so defensive about being wrong man.
No one's talking about pre-humans or post-humans, we're talking about technology...if you know what electronic technology is then you're going to be able to comprehend, at least at a basic level, stuff that's way more advanced than what you've seen because it's still the same basic kind of thing.
The aliens are keeping an eye on us. Why do you think we have not yet discovered any aliens yet? Its because they know where we are looking so they are just keeping themselves out of seight. But once oil runs dry we cant defend earth anymore, the aliens are coming because we are living in an unsustained way and the aliens will kill everyone until there is only 1 billion ppl left, then they leave.
What are the humans doing when they see that there are too many birds in a forest? They kill them to prevent overpopulation.
Well the human population makes an agreement with the aliens to prevent further masacre that the humanrace should go into the desert and dig a gigantic crater. Then we must tell future generations that a meteor killed 8/9 of world population so the knowledge about the aliens will stay hidden. Because if overpopulation should happen again the aliens can come again.
Politics - it shows that people will never ever agree on some things. This isn't even touching on religious zeal, which affects most of the popular religions, leading to terrorist attacks, both domestically and abroad. TBH, I've never been very optimistic and but that also means I don't take things for granted.
And yeah, resource scarcity will inevitably force hostile situations. Of all people, I would think Starcraft players would understand the macro game of resource management and the lengths nations will go to protect or acquire additional resources.
At the risk of sounding like a negative nancy, you would have to be a fool to be optimistic about the future. With all of our tech, we still have no solution to the energy problems we face. Of course we will suck the planet dry of all natural resources. Basically the businessmen won't listen to the engineers and scientists until it's too late. The Earth is already beyond its means of supporting humans yet the population continues to grow exponentially, it has tripled in the last 50 years. The ocean is full of plastic and I don't think anyone will ever find it "profitable" to clean it up, so it will never happen. 99% of all plastic that has ever been manufactured is in the ground somewhere or in the ocean; we are only adding to it. Rain forests are being depleted. There is little more available land for agriculture, and the demand for food continues to rise. Clean water is becoming more and more scarce. The oceans are over-fished. Global economic problems, fucking all kinds of natural disasters recently that seem to be indicative of an increase in severity of climates. Global warming, again no solution in sight. Basically odds are your grandchildren's lives are going to be much worse than yours, so enjoy while it lasts...
On May 06 2010 13:54 Vei wrote: I really don't think WW3 will ever happen...like maybe Russia or some middle east country or N Korea will go crazy with their nukes, but the civilized world realizes how undesirable nuclear war is.
It doesn't have to be a nuclear war to be a world war. You can do plenty of damage with regular explosive bombs.
On May 06 2010 13:54 Vei wrote: I really don't think WW3 will ever happen...like maybe Russia or some middle east country or N Korea will go crazy with their nukes, but the civilized world realizes how undesirable nuclear war is.
It doesn't have to be a nuclear war to be a world war. You can do plenty of damage with regular explosive bombs.
The thing is though, total war will inevitably lead to nuclear war regardless of the promises both sides might make (assuming both sides possess nuclear weapons, a fairly safe assumption IMO) at the beginning because when you're country is losing the war and facing total defeat you're just gonna be like "fuck it, why not?" and launch your entire arsenal.
I walk across the bridge to class one lovely day in May. Enthralled in Summer's sights and sounds, I somehow lose my way.
And when I find myself again it seems like years have passed. The world around me seems so strange with wonders great and vast.
I walk precisely on a street Now paved in platinum. I ogle at this perfect place My world had just become.
Then right above me with their skyboots many children sail. They smile as they lift me up and tell their wondrous tale.
'A motherlode, some folks had found While mining on the moon, Has made resources plentiful As sand grains in a dune.
With energy renewable as raindrops in the sea, our riches now have ended all the woes of poverty.
And with this newfound wealth we fought to fix the atmosphere. We built a giant filter And the skies were ever clear.
We saved the global habitat And ended all disease And war as well; now human beings Can mingle as they please!
And children everywhere can be Whatever they so choose. With education lighting up "Imagination's fuse."' <-- sorry for people who don't like dickinson
After flying to and fro and showing me around, they bid farewell and fly away as I wave on the ground.
But as I start to feel at home in this temporal rift, My eyes become quite heavy And my mind begins to drift.
And coming to, I lift my head And stare up from the ground. Around me I can only find Familiar sight and sound.
A little sad, I think aloud, now in the present date: "This trip may well have ended but that future... I'll create!"
EPT![[image loading]](http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs47/f/2009/189/5/c/Future_City_Concept_by_frenic.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.skool.us/files/new/destruction.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://askthetrainer.com/image-files/male-20-percent-body-fat.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.gaypornshow.com/blogimages/hdkcentral/36-1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://round1ko.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/kratos.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs24/f/2008/014/c/8/My_life_for_Aiur___next_WIP_by_Jamnique.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs13/f/2007/012/0/4/Protoss_by_Beloved_Creature.jpg)
And this is how it was in the world at one point.
![[image loading]](http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3928/91974091.png)
![[image loading]](http://deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/the-secret-war-of-lisa-simpson2.png?w=512&h=384)
