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On May 11 2010 05:59 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 18:56 PobTheCad wrote:More information on UK debt for Arbiter[frolix] https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.htmlRank country Debt - external Date of Information 1 United States $ 13,450,000,000,000 30 June 2009 2 United Kingdom $ 9,088,000,000,000 30 June 2009 3 Germany $ 5,208,000,000,000 30 June 2009 http://xkcd.com/558/Not exactly relevant, but I'd like to remind people how giving the actual figures don't mean anything, since it tells us nothing about how difficult it will be to repay. One billion owed by, say, Nigeria versus one billion owed by the United States is a completely different matter. So try to get a proper context of what it really means to own this much money. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt, wiki has both actual figure and as % GDP.
Just makes it a whole lot worse for the UK under context of GDP.
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On May 12 2010 07:45 sc4k wrote:
I guess that's fair, though quite a lot of leaders are like that.
Hmm very true. I guess the self belief that elevates you to that position of power is often ultimately a weakness.
Some policy news from the coalition is filtering through:
The tory inheritance tax lift is scrapped as is the Liberal mansion tax.
The Liberals £10,000 tax threshold increase will go ahead but only for low earners.
They agree to cut spending this year and stop the NI rise next year.
Non-EU immigration will be capped.
Edit: Another just in, replacement for Trident to go ahead but scrutinised for money.
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United States44374 Posts
On May 12 2010 07:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:
No it's not. Come live in England and you will understand how deeply Tatcher and Major have fucked in the arse people of that country. I have been to Finland. Believe me, you better keep your system, because life is sixteen time better in Helsinki than in London.
Best PM we ever had.
We need Maggie back. She'd still have done a better job than Brown these last few years.
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Liberal Democrats and Conservatives... doesn't seem like a coalition can work in pratice. When push comes to shove they will be polar opposites on all important issues(as the debates demonstrated).
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The country bumkins here make my face sad 
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On May 12 2010 08:45 Lyter wrote:The country bumkins here make my face sad
*bumpkins*
You know if you're going to express your superiority over people it tends to help if you can spell the pejorative words you use.
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I know the Conservatives and Liberals in the U.S. will never work together for many many reasons, is it as clear in UK politics. Or can the two parties actually manage to work together?
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Both Cameron and Clegg are the sort of people who like to push past gay partisan party boundaries, but the rest of their parties certainly might not follow their modern political philosophy.
I'd say that our three parties are also basically Democrat-style parties. The conservatives are far less right-wing than the almost ridiculous GOP.
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On May 12 2010 11:25 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
I know the Conservatives and Liberals in the U.S. will never work together for many many reasons, is it as clear in UK politics. Or can the two parties actually manage to work together?
It can work because the leaders of both parties, Clegg and Cameron; are progressive, pragmatic characters.
Cameron in particular has pulled the Conservatives more towards the middle ground and the result is the Liberals and Tories sharing many common views.
The Liberal ministers voted unanimously for the coalition because they understand that they may never get an offer as generous as this again. For the first time since 1922 Liberals will be making a difference to policy decision.
Also they have agreed to the Liberal policy to fix the term of parliament to 5 years. In the past the Prime Minister always had the right to choose when to have an election. In this case Cameron can't "cut and run"; he has no choice but to make things work.
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On May 12 2010 09:08 sc4k wrote:*bumpkins* You know if you're going to express your superiority over people it tends to help if you can spell the pejorative words you use.
It's possible he was making a pun relating to the kinds of activites country folk tend to get up to.
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I was under the impression the two sides of congress to pass certain legislature through in the US?
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Wow that press conference was something quite unbelievable.
I'm stunned.
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What press conference what happened?
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On May 12 2010 20:31 XeliN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 09:08 sc4k wrote:On May 12 2010 08:45 Lyter wrote:The country bumkins here make my face sad *bumpkins* You know if you're going to express your superiority over people it tends to help if you can spell the pejorative words you use. It's possible he was making a pun relating to the kinds of activites country folk tend to get up to.
Oh I get it, like dogging and being borderline racist, yes?
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This could be the start of a fantastic thing in British politics, we'll have to see. The message Cameron and Clegg send out in that press conference seems to correlate to the general philosophies they present whenever I saw them speaking in the past five years. Hopefully they can actually push past the party boundaries and the older branches of their parties and deliver something both people can be proud of. I wonder how big of a department Clegg will actually get.
When you add Vince Cable, Chris Huhne and David Laws to any cabinet, it can only get better imo. Let's see how much freedom they get and if the Tory backbenchers can be kept in line.
The press conference was as inspiring to me as Obama- who also speaks about cutting down pointless partisan barriers. Now it's left to see if they can deliver on a grander scale than Obama, who from all accounts has talked a better game than he has played.
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On May 13 2010 02:03 sc4k wrote:
This could be the start of a fantastic thing in British politics, we'll have to see. The message Cameron and Clegg send out in that press conference seems to correlate to the general philosophies they present whenever I saw them speaking in the past five years. Hopefully they can actually push past the party boundaries and the older branches of their parties and deliver something both people can be proud of. I wonder how big of a department Clegg will actually get.
When you add Vince Cable, Chris Huhne and David Laws to any cabinet, it can only get better imo. Let's see how much freedom they get and if the Tory backbenchers can be kept in line.
The press conference was as inspiring to me as Obama- who also speaks about cutting down pointless partisan barriers. Now it's left to see if they can deliver on a grander scale than Obama, who from all accounts has talked a better game than he has played.
As Americans have learned with Obama and Bush, rhetoric is just rhetoric. Don't get your hopes up too soon. Wait and see what Cameron and Clegg do.
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On May 12 2010 07:28 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 07:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:
No it's not. Come live in England and you will understand how deeply Tatcher and Major have fucked in the arse people of that country. I have been to Finland. Believe me, you better keep your system, because life is sixteen time better in Helsinki than in London. It always comes back to this nonsense. Ask my Grandparents generation about Thatcher and they will say nothing but great things. Personally I think she was a pretty pathetic character and was given far too long in power but that has nothing to do with right versus left or about a modern Tory Government. As for Ideology. Even within the parties members will tell you very different things about their ideology. It's a very vague issue. People who study the issue will tell you that the Tories and Labour are reasonably close on the political compass. http://www.politicalcompass.org/ukparties2010My views put me much closer ideologically to Labour than the Tories. But ultimately if you follow politics you see that recently Labour has been very dishonest, misleading and incompetent. I don't need to reiterate the economic problems we are facing. I might well vote Labour in 5 years but right now let's at least try to be sensible about what we have got. It's certainly not a dreadful outcome.
I don't agree with theses post-political ideas, à-la-Fukuyama, although in th case of UK, you may unfortunately be right.
You know what's for me the most stupid sentence which has been said theses last 30 years? It's the famous "It's the Economy, idiot". New Labour, or the death of politics. Economy how, for whom, by whom, that's not said in the sentence.
Last years have revealed that:
1- A country can have great economy "on the paper" and be in a horrible shape socially, with poors getting poorer and more numerous every year.
2- A country can have a very good economy which doesn't benefit anybody except a cast of traders and shareholders.
3- A country can be supposed to have a great economy and then crash and have to pay hundred of millions for the banks for which everything has been sacrified.
Where you are right is that England has a non existent political spectrum: everybody is between moderate right and right. There is no left wing anymore whatsoever, and it really seems that at the end politics is all about chosing the most efficient bureaucrat to run the country in the way orthodox liberal economists have theorised.
Political compass is obviously a funny shit, but a shit nontheless. Politics cannot be reduced or even visualised with two numbers.
I formly believe that ultraliberal policies and the bullcrap of the School of Chicago which have been the bible of UK's politic since Tatcher are entirely responsible of all the crap we are in today. I don't have the arrogance of saying that I know better than you the history of your country, but I have heard a lot of people saying here that Tatcher had been for UK what Attila has been for Roman Empire.
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EPT
