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On May 12 2010 06:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 05:53 TonyL2 wrote:On May 12 2010 05:45 Lyter wrote:Sadtimes  i miss gordie already Seconded. David Milliband will save us in 4-5 years time, I believe! I never thought I would miss him, but I have to admit... That's funny, lots of my friends voted lib dem and are sooo shocked to see that their vote went to a coalition with Cameron as PM. They feel they have been fucked and I think they are right.
We'll your friends were foolish.
You can only change politics from the inside. So what Cameron is a Tory? He knew that the only way to actually make a difference in this tribal two party system is to join a party and change it from the inside. That is in many ways what he's trying to do.
What we have now in the Cameron-Clegg coalition is a progressive party who will ensure that the overly extravagant Tory policies are squashed; combined with an honest, sensible leading party who have the guts to make necessary cuts and care more about the country than their popularity .
This is the best we could have hoped for and it's such a shame that the majority of my generation is so incomprehensibly ignorant to the reality of the political situation.
Edit: toned down the language, I was overly harsh
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Who is the leader of Other?
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I'm enjoying purely on the dramatic level, far more interesting than simply another labour government or if the tories had of won outright.
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On May 12 2010 06:48 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 06:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 12 2010 05:53 TonyL2 wrote:On May 12 2010 05:45 Lyter wrote:Sadtimes i miss gordie already Seconded. David Milliband will save us in 4-5 years time, I believe! I never thought I would miss him, but I have to admit... That's funny, lots of my friends voted lib dem and are sooo shocked to see that their vote went to a coalition with Cameron as PM. They feel they have been fucked and I think they are right. We'll your friends were idiots and they are still idiots. You can only change politics from the inside. So what Cameron is a Tory? He knew that the only way to actually make a difference in this tribal two party system is to join a party and change it from the inside. That is exactly what he's trying to do. What we have now in the Cameron-Clegg coalition is a progressive party who will ensure that the overly extravagant Tory policies are squashed; combined with an honest, sensible leading party who have the guts to make necessary cuts and care more about the country than their popularity . This is the best we could have hoped for and it's such a shame that the majority of my generation is so incomprehensibly ignorant to the reality of the political situation.
My friends are not idiots, and I think you are very naive, so naive that's it's touching. Enjoy it while it lasts. 
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If either of the Milibands (most likely David) or Alan Johnson becomes leader of the Labour party, I'll very likely be voting labour in 5 years time (maybe less as you guys have said). I greatly respect all of them, much much more than David Cameron.
PS I somewhat agree with Klive in theory but in practice there are probably too many hardcore lefties and righties in this coalition for it to be very functional. At the best, they will pass through the skeleton of what is needed, at the worse they will come unstuck at the first European issue or something like that and that will be the end of that chapter.
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On May 12 2010 06:56 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 06:48 Klive5ive wrote:On May 12 2010 06:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 12 2010 05:53 TonyL2 wrote:On May 12 2010 05:45 Lyter wrote:Sadtimes i miss gordie already Seconded. David Milliband will save us in 4-5 years time, I believe! I never thought I would miss him, but I have to admit... That's funny, lots of my friends voted lib dem and are sooo shocked to see that their vote went to a coalition with Cameron as PM. They feel they have been fucked and I think they are right. We'll your friends were idiots and they are still idiots. You can only change politics from the inside. So what Cameron is a Tory? He knew that the only way to actually make a difference in this tribal two party system is to join a party and change it from the inside. That is exactly what he's trying to do. What we have now in the Cameron-Clegg coalition is a progressive party who will ensure that the overly extravagant Tory policies are squashed; combined with an honest, sensible leading party who have the guts to make necessary cuts and care more about the country than their popularity . This is the best we could have hoped for and it's such a shame that the majority of my generation is so incomprehensibly ignorant to the reality of the political situation. My friends are not idiots, and I thinnk you are very naive, so naive that's it's touching. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Ha, you actually thought a vote for the Lib Dems meant anything other than a hung parliament with Tory leadership and I'M naive.
If Cameron was leader of the Lib Dems you'd be in love with him instead. Despite him and Clegg being similar you despise one and love the other? Now that truly is naive.
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Klive whats it like up their on that insurmountable pedestal? Is it sunny and full of the sound of clapping?
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On May 12 2010 07:00 XeliN wrote:
Klive whats it like up their on that insurmountable pedestal? Is it sunny and full of the sound of clapping?
No as I said before it's very frustrating. I'm reasonably happy with the best possible outcome, even though I'm not stupid enough to believe it will have a fantastic outcome.
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Haha
Robeno
Interesting factoid, last time #britishpm was this young he lead Britain into War with US. Cameron dont' get any ideas.
half a minute ago via TweetDeck
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This is why i think we need to give Wales and Scotland independence, and why i can't understand why Tories don't back it lol it would give them a majority every election:
![[image loading]](http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2632/86536172.png)
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UK just doesn't have enough coalition government experience. For example, Finland usually has 4 parties governing everytime (had 5 like 8 years row) to maintain majority in parliament. Now days parties are willing to give compromises to other parties a lot to get majority. Cabinet is easy to arrange because spots are nowdays "fixed" which are ranked to highest ranked to lowest (Prime minister being first spot which goes to highest MP party, then secretary of treasure goes second party and so on).
So little bit experience and this might help UK more (at least over 60% peoples votes are now governing country instead of below 50%)
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Ah, this is wonderful news!
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On May 12 2010 06:58 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 06:56 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 12 2010 06:48 Klive5ive wrote:On May 12 2010 06:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 12 2010 05:53 TonyL2 wrote:On May 12 2010 05:45 Lyter wrote:Sadtimes i miss gordie already Seconded. David Milliband will save us in 4-5 years time, I believe! I never thought I would miss him, but I have to admit... That's funny, lots of my friends voted lib dem and are sooo shocked to see that their vote went to a coalition with Cameron as PM. They feel they have been fucked and I think they are right. We'll your friends were idiots and they are still idiots. You can only change politics from the inside. So what Cameron is a Tory? He knew that the only way to actually make a difference in this tribal two party system is to join a party and change it from the inside. That is exactly what he's trying to do. What we have now in the Cameron-Clegg coalition is a progressive party who will ensure that the overly extravagant Tory policies are squashed; combined with an honest, sensible leading party who have the guts to make necessary cuts and care more about the country than their popularity . This is the best we could have hoped for and it's such a shame that the majority of my generation is so incomprehensibly ignorant to the reality of the political situation. My friends are not idiots, and I thinnk you are very naive, so naive that's it's touching. Enjoy it while it lasts. Ha, you actually thought a vote for the Lib Dems meant anything other than a hung parliament with Tory leadership and I'M naive. If Cameron was leader of the Lib Dems you'd be in love with him instead. Despite him and Clegg being similar you despise one and love the other? Now that truly is naive.
I don't vote in this country, and if I had to vote I would certainly not vote for the Lib Dems. You are naive because you believe that people are "good to do the job" or "not good to do the job". You don't see ideology.
Being a Tory means something. It means you agree with certain values, with certain priorities, and you come from a certain political tradition.
Theses friends voted for the Lib Dem because they thought they were an alternative to the New Labour at the *kof kof kof* "left". For them, having Cameron as a result is a betrayal. That's it.
On May 12 2010 07:10 Squeegy wrote:
Ah, this is wonderful news!
No it's not. Come live in England and you will understand how deeply Tatcher and Major have fucked in the arse people of that country. I have been to Finland. Believe me, you better keep your system, because life is sixteen time better in Helsinki than in London.
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Wow Nick Clegg deputy leader! I didn't see that coming. Is that normal in coalitions?
On May 12 2010 07:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:
No it's not. Come live in England and you will understand how deeply Tatcher and Major have fucked in the arse people of that country. I have been to Finland. Believe me, you better keep your system, because life is sixteen time better in Helsinki than in London.
I don't think you know what you're talking about if you say Thatcher fucked over the people of this country. She fucked over the north, get it right, but even that is probably too strong language. She fucked over the secondary industry in our country. Major did nothing.
From the initial reports of the coalition it looks like the Tories may have made a lot of very generous concessions, looks like
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On May 12 2010 07:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:
No it's not. Come live in England and you will understand how deeply Tatcher and Major have fucked in the arse people of that country. I have been to Finland. Believe me, you better keep your system, because life is sixteen time better in Helsinki than in London.
It always comes back to this nonsense.
Ask my Grandparents generation about Thatcher and they will say nothing but great things.
Personally I think she was a pretty pathetic character and was given far too long in power but that has nothing to do with right versus left or about a modern Tory Government.
As for Ideology.
Even within the parties members will tell you very different things about their ideology. It's a very vague issue. People who study the issue will tell you that the Tories and Labour are reasonably close on the political compass.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/ukparties2010
My views put me much closer ideologically to Labour than the Tories.
But ultimately if you follow politics you see that recently Labour has been very dishonest, misleading and incompetent. I don't need to reiterate the economic problems we are facing.
I might well vote Labour in 5 years but right now let's at least try to be sensible about what we have got. It's certainly not a dreadful outcome.
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On May 12 2010 06:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:
No it's not. Come live in England and you will understand how deeply Tatcher and Major have fucked in the arse people of that country. I have been to Finland. Believe me, you better keep your system, because life is sixteen time better in Helsinki than in London.
I am probably moving to London (or UK at the very least) by the end of the year, so I shall see!
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On May 12 2010 07:28 Klive5ive wrote:
Personally I think she was a pretty pathetic character and was given far too long in power but that has nothing to do with right versus left or about a modern Tory Government.
You are probably right about the power thing, but she wasn't called the Iron Lady for nothing! I think she was the opposite of pathetic. A very good talker with a strong, solid blue personal conviction; is how she struck me.
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On May 12 2010 07:16 sc4k wrote:
Wow Nick Clegg deputy leader! I didn't see that coming. Is that normal in coalitions?
There is no normal, this is the first hung parliament for a while! Also the Tories have given them 4 additional cabinet positions, which is generous considering how little seats that had, but if it means the coalition has a better chance of working i guess it's a good thing. I'm surprised though at some of the calls, apparently Tories still have the marriage tax break, although dropped the inheritance tax, i think those are probably some of the worse policies of the Tories and im surprised the lib dems didnt get them to drop the marriage tax break.
Also i have to say anyone who voted lib dem without realizing it was a real possibility that there would be a lib-con pact is naive, i mean come on the polls suggested a hung parliament with Tories with the most seats, what did you expect to happen? Tell your friends that this is the best result for them surely? this election had 4 realistic outcomes lib-lab pact, lib-con pact, con minority government, con majority. From the results there was 3 outcomes, a lib-lab rainbow pact that would be bound to fail and massive bad PR on both parties and most likely fuel a con landslide or at least a majority in the election 6 months time after it collapses, a con minority, not something your friends wanted, OR the first time in THIRTY years that the lib dems have power in government by forming a con-lib pact. Basically your friends are disappointed at the fact that the lib dems have taken the opportunity to have a real effect on the British government for a long time rather than opposing for oppositions sake.I mean i don't understand what your friends would rather? refuse to make a coalition and go on for another thirty years failing to have any effect on the government? I mean if the point of a party is to get into power, and when they are presented with some power turn it down, whats the point in them even existing?
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On May 12 2010 07:31 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 07:28 Klive5ive wrote:
Personally I think she was a pretty pathetic character and was given far too long in power but that has nothing to do with right versus left or about a modern Tory Government. You are probably right about the power thing, but she wasn't called the Iron Lady for nothing! I think she was the opposite of pathetic. A very good talker with a strong, solid blue personal conviction; is how she struck me.
Well pathetic in the way I find Brown pathetic I guess.
Unable to listen when everyone around them is giving them good advice, unable to see when perhaps they are going too far and unable to give in and accept when they make mistakes.
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I guess that's fair, though quite a lot of leaders are like that.
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EPT
