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On September 14 2012 05:03 Rassy wrote:
With the instalment of the esm after aproval of the german court the euro crisis seem to be in its final stages and the sharp edges of the crisis seem to have disapeared.
It would be a remarkable fast recovery from a financial crisis, manny other crisis such as the asia financial crisis, the argentinian one and the swedish one lasted longer if i remember correctly.
Europe will print monney but it looks it will be a limited amount of printing, Germany and other countrys can still stop anny aditional aid programs, they have to give permission for them , this esm does not seem to be a blanc cheque.
Besides voting for the esm there where 2 other major events this week: the netherlands had its elections and helicopter ben aproved more monney printing (yet again)
Personally i think and hope the elections of the netherlands will show europe the road and be an example for other governments to come.
The elections in the netherlands have a difficult outcome at first sight, the big leftwing party and the big rightwing party both have 40 out of 150 totall seats, and there does not seem to be a reasonable majority possible for either a leftwing, or a rightwing administration.
What i hope,and expect is the 2 big partys compromising and forming the government together.
This seems verry difficult at first sight (it would be like torry and labour making one government) but it is not impossible and it has been done before in the netherlands with verry good results.
I hope to see a new form of social capitalism emerge from this, take the best ideas from both the left and the right side. Maybe this is wishfull thinking but i am optimistic .
It is something that could go wrong also though, i have to admit. If the partys fail to form a government in a reasonable amount of time it could lead to more controversy between leftwing and rightwing , not only in the netherlands but in the whole of europe.
Then BB also aproved a new round of quantitive easing today, it almost felt like he had to wait for the esm to be aproved before feeling free to do so.
Now that europe will print a bit of monney, america can print a bit more again also.
America prints monney on a much larger scale then europe though and as a result i expect a strong euro for the coming months, maybe even back to 1.40
Well, i realy hope the crisis in europe is now more or less over, or at least that the worst is behind us.
The tone is set for the solution,printing monney is the key and i expect it will be the key for the future also.
Inflation is the least notable of the manny ways in wich one can get poorer.
The Netherlands is already highly socialistic probably only a bit under scandinavia.
Anyway I don't think inflation will be that much of a problem the ECB has set their goal at a bit under 2% and if you average the inflation they're very close to that goal. So if they'll hit higher levels of inflation the upcoming years they'll probably lower the inflation when they're able to.
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On September 14 2012 05:03 Rassy wrote:
With the instalment of the esm after aproval of the german court the euro crisis seem to be in its final stages and the sharp edges of the crisis seem to have disapeared.
It would be a remarkable fast recovery from a financial crisis, manny other crisis such as the asia financial crisis, the argentinian one and the swedish one lasted longer if i remember correctly.
Europe will print monney but it looks it will be a limited amount of printing, Germany and other countrys can still stop anny aditional aid programs, they have to give permission for them , this esm does not seem to be a blanc cheque.
......
Well, i realy hope the crisis in europe is now more or less over, or at least that the worst is behind us.
The tone is set for the solution,printing monney is the key and i expect it will be the key for the future also.
Inflation is the least notable of the manny ways in wich one can get poorer.
I'm sorry im gonna disappoint you but the crisis is not even at its peak yet. The OMT is just another kick to the can that solves nothing, obviously coordinated with the QE3 so to take us "safely" to the american elections.
Couple days ago someone from the IMF said that Greece will need a third bailout pack and another haircut and they took him out of the scene with the cane like old disney comics :p
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Have to admit that after sleeping a few nights and thinking about it i am way less optimistic also lol.
What you say makes kinda sense, after usa elections fiscal cliff is also looming , guess we have not seen it all yet and they will probably manage to prolong this ordeal into the next year ><
Not everything old is better,but i sometimes surely do miss the state of the economy of the 90,s.
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So Spain is going full apeshit right now.... at least Barcelona is.
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The EU needs to be completely dissolved.
Every country should look after itself. The EU is destroying Europe. The successful countries like Germany are having to foot the bill of the mistakes of the unsuccessful countries (Greece, Spain). But will Greece and Spain actually stop their ridiculous levels of spending? No! It's just going to continue and continue. It's time that the sinking ships are cut loose. Otherwise everyone's going to sink together.
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So will there be another massive protests and strikes?
With Spanish 10Y yields hovering at a 'relatively' healthy 5%, having been driven inexorably lower on the promise of ECB assistance at some time in the future, the market has become increasingly unsure of just who it is that keeps bidding for this stuff. Well, wonder no longer. As the WSJ notes, Spain has been quietly tapping the country's richest piggy bank, the Social Security Reserve Fund, as a buyer of last resort for Spanish government bonds - with at least 90% of the €65 billion ($85.7 billion) fund has been invested in increasingly risky Spanish debt. Of course, this is nothing new, the US (and the Irish) have been using quasi-government entities to fund themselves in a mutually-destructive circle-jerk for years - the only difference being there are other buyers in the Treasury market, whereas in Spain the marginal buyer is critical to support the sinking ship. The Spanish defend the use of pension funds to buy bonds as sustainable as long as it can issue bonds - and yet the only way it can actually get the bonds off in the public markets is through using the pension fund assets. The pensioners sum it up perfectly "We are very worried about this, we just don't know who's going to pay for the pensions of those who are younger now," or those who are older we would add.
Source
NOTE: WSJ Link that is listed on the site is a I believe a paywall.
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Cyprus has received a $13bn bailout after lengthy talks in Brussels with eurozone leaders and the International Monetary Fund. The conditions attached to the deal, however, have led to a run on the country's banks.
Savers reacted with shock on Saturday after the government agreed to an unprecedented levy on all deposits in return for the EU bailout.
The debt rescue package, agreed with the eurozone and the IMF early in the morning after around 10 hours of talks in the Belgian capital, is significantly less than the 17bn euros Cyprus had initially sought.
Most of the balance is to be made up through the bank deposit levy of up to 9.9 percent, which will apply to everyone from pensioners to Russian oligarchs and tens of thousands of British expatriates, and is hoped to raise 5.8bn euros.
Cyprus - which accounts for just 0.2 percent of the combined eurozone economy - is the fifth country to secure a debt rescue package from its eurozone partners in the three-year debt crisis.
Source
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On March 17 2013 09:23 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +Cyprus has received a $13bn bailout after lengthy talks in Brussels with eurozone leaders and the International Monetary Fund. The conditions attached to the deal, however, have led to a run on the country's banks.
Savers reacted with shock on Saturday after the government agreed to an unprecedented levy on all deposits in return for the EU bailout.
The debt rescue package, agreed with the eurozone and the IMF early in the morning after around 10 hours of talks in the Belgian capital, is significantly less than the 17bn euros Cyprus had initially sought.
Most of the balance is to be made up through the bank deposit levy of up to 9.9 percent, which will apply to everyone from pensioners to Russian oligarchs and tens of thousands of British expatriates, and is hoped to raise 5.8bn euros.
Cyprus - which accounts for just 0.2 percent of the combined eurozone economy - is the fifth country to secure a debt rescue package from its eurozone partners in the three-year debt crisis. Source
Yeah heard this on the radio. I dont get it anyone could have seen this would result in a bank run which costs the banks even more then was needed in the first place....
Im no economics major so maybe i got it complete wrong but shouldn't the "experts" have seen this result coming from the agreement.
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The Cyprus government has postponed an emergency session of parliament to discuss a levy on bank savings imposed to partially fund an international bailout needed to stave off bankruptcy.
State television said that Sunday's parliamentary debate was postponed to "ensure MPs were fully aware of the situation and were better informed."
All meetings were postponed until Monday, the Cyprus News Agency reported. Earlier, Cypriot President Nicos Anastasiades postponed an informal meeting of legislators called for Sunday morning.
The privately run Sigma TV said that Anastasiades was struggling to secure even a simple majority for the necessary legislation in parliament, in which his rightwing DISY party holds just 20 of the 56 seats.
Several parties in the 56-member chamber, where no party has an absolute majority, were meeting on Sunday morning to formulate positions over the bank levy. Three parties have already said they will not back the plan.
Source
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Sometimes it feels like the EU actually wants a collapse.
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Crisis would disappear is the countries governments created their own money instead of letting private banks create the money out of nothing and then lend it to the countries.
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Some political parties have understood that the government should create the money not private banks, for example Partiet De Fria in Sweden. http://www.defria.se/
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there is no collapse. they're buying countries.
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We need to leave the EU sooner or later. A union can only function if all member countries share the same values and work ethic. Not even the allies, who forced us into the euro, will object if we leave now...
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On March 18 2013 02:55 B0lland wrote:
Crisis would disappear is the countries governments created their own money instead of letting private banks create the money out of nothing and then lend it to the countries.
the European Central Bank is not a private bank.
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Moral issues aside, it is actually pretty simple: Cyprus has been living above its means and is in debt. As a result, its citizens will have to pay for it, either by accepting this tax, other austerity measures, or by defaulting.
This applied, applies and will apply to many countries in the future, not just in Europe.
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On March 18 2013 02:56 B0lland wrote:Some political parties have understood that the government should create the money not private banks, for example Partiet De Fria in Sweden. http://www.defria.se/
They are insanely small, the chances of them having any influence on swedish politics are close to zero.
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the only way to get out of this crisis is by an economic policy collective. If the EU collapse, you can be sure that France, Germany and every other country will be in a deeper shit.
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heh I read that about cyprus too. My main problem with this is that the bail out was equal to about 100% of Cyrpus's GDP. As a person who has hope, I see almost none in which Cyprus would be able to pay off this bailout in a conformed manner.
On March 18 2013 03:48 Yuljan wrote:
We need to leave the EU sooner or later. A union can only function if all member countries share the same values and work ethic. Not even the allies, who forced us into the euro, will object if we leave now...
lmfao. Says from someone from germany... you realize that recently because of the euro's weak currency strength as of late, German exports have thrived in an otherwise period of economic distress. Merkel, understandably, screwed herself with the budget regulations set into place which provides no wiggle room for loaning more bail outs.
I think the EU collapse was more because political infrastructure to deal with crisis like this was not implemented within the 20 years of the Euro's creation and now these measures are slowly being put into place. What is left is who is going to get the best of each policy created
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Oh what a surprise. Euro zone crisis back in the headlines. This is never going to be over until the EU breaks up or is at least split in two halves. The EU was created for political reasons but it is economically unsustainable unless they, the EU becomes one country(which i doubt many want).
Edit: also it would be wise for anyone, ANYONE with money in EU banks, in particular Greek, Spanish, Irish, Italian or Portuguese banks to withdraw their money and buy real estate or other non-confiscatory asset. This isn't the first incident where the troika have broken international finance rules and committed outright theft of the people and I don't expect it to be the last. Then again we can always believe the beauracrats that this is a "one-off" incident.
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EPT
