On October 04 2011 04:34 HoldenR wrote: People from the U.S.: Please shut the fuck up with the putting down Keynesian economics. Your own country is in far worse trouble for your 'trickle down' ridiculous ideas, which has more in common with slave labor, so I'm genuinely offended by you guys telling us we have bad economic policies. Thank you.
Dear European: Americans are allowed to discuss European politics. Just as Europeans are allowed to discuss American politics.
Thank you.
Sure the guy lashes out with some lack of understanding american economy. Though his "racism" against americans can easily overshadow his meaning, don't make it:
Keynesian vs. neoclassical and its undertopics in economy is not the topic of this thread. Please keep the discussion about the Euro and Euro-related news. There has been plenty of other threads about economic theory in the past and I am sure you can find one or create a better suited OP for such discussion.
BBC Does It Again: "In The Absence Of A Credible Plan We Will Have A Global Financial Meltdown In Two To Three Weeks" - IMF Advisor
A week after the BBC exploded Alessio Rastani to the stage, it has just done it all over again. In an interview with IMF advisor Robert Shapiro, the bailout expert has pretty much said what, once again, is on everyone's mind: "If they can not address [the financial crisis] in a credible way I believe within perhaps 2 to 3 weeks we will have a meltdown in sovereign debt which will produce a meltdown across the European banking system. We are not just talking about a relatively small Belgian bank, we are talking about the largest banks in the world, the largest banks in Germany, the largest banks in France, that will spread to the United Kingdom, it will spread everywhere because the global financial system is so interconnected. All those banks are counterparties to every significant bank in the United States, and in Britain, and in Japan, and around the world. This would be a crisis that would be in my view more serrious than the crisis in 2008.... What we don't know the state of credit default swaps held by banks against sovereign debt and against European banks, nor do we know the state of CDS held by British banks, nor are we certain of how certain the exposure of British banks is to the Ireland sovereign debt problems."
But no, Morgan Stanley does, or so they swear an unlimited number of times each day. And they say not to worry about anything because, you see, it is not like they have any upside in telling anyone the truth. Which is why for everyone hung up on the latest rumor of a plan about a plan about a plan spread by a newspaper whose very viability is tied in with that of the banks that pay for its advertising revenue, we have one thing to ask: "show us the actual plan please." Because it is easy to say "recapitalize" this, and "bad bank" that. In practice, it is next to impossible. So yes, ladies and gentlemen, enjoy this brief relief rally driven by the fact that China is offline for the week and that the persistent source of overnight selling on Chinese "hard/crash landing" concerns has been gone simply due to an extended national holiday. Well, that holiday is coming to an end.
IMF advisor says we face a Worldwide Banking Meltdown
This is somewhat of a European Debt issue and related to the "imminent global financial meltdown" in the worlds of an IMF advisor. MF Global filed for bankruptcy largely due to bets on European sovereign debt that the firm had to write down. JP Morgan and Deutsche Bank were the hardest hit creditors on the news: http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/31/news/companies/mf_global/
If this becomes a pattern and the contagion spreads, a Global Financial crisis thread would be more appropriate.
Greece's Prime Minister is putting Greece's bailout to a referendum -- and the polls show the Greek populace doesn't like it.
Nobel prize-winning economist Christopher Pissarides says ""In the scenario of a 'No' vote Greece would declare bankruptcy immediately, they would default immediately. I can't see them staying within the euro..."
On November 01 2011 07:00 TanGeng wrote: This is somewhat of a European Debt issue and related to the "imminent global financial meltdown" in the worlds of an IMF advisor. MF Global filed for bankruptcy largely due to bets on European sovereign debt that the firm had to write down. JP Morgan and Deutsche Bank were the hardest hit creditors on the news: http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/31/news/companies/mf_global/
If this becomes a pattern and the contagion spreads, a Global Financial crisis thread would be more appropriate.
Hundreds of millions of dollars of customer's money has gone missing from the brokerage firm run by former New Jersey governor Jon Corzine, sources told The New York Times.
The New York-based company, MF Global, filed for bankruptcy Monday following bad bets on euro zone debt.
The discovery of the missing millions stopped a last-minute deal to sell a major part of MF Global to another brokerage firm from going ahead, The New York Times reported.
Corzine, 64, who once ran Goldman Sachs before becoming a U.S. senator and then governor of New Jersey, had been trying to turn the more than 200-year-old MF Global into a mini Goldman by taking on more risky trades.
But once regulators forced it to fully disclose the bets on debt issued by countries including Italy, Portugal and Spain, it rapidly unraveled with no buyers willing to step in.
MF Global's meltdown in less than a week made it the biggest U.S. casualty of Europe's debt crisis, and the seventh-largest bankruptcy by assets in U.S. history. Source
I really try to keep up, but it's just absolutely amazing how fast the 'connected' stories keep popping up. It's really quite something. I keep about 40 links in a news folder, and I can barely keep up with America,EU, and the shell game in the middle east. Another bad loan, ala Solyndra, another dervitives trading scandal, another bankruptcy. Better get some coffee and hug the kids.
On November 01 2011 23:21 BioNova wrote: The discovery of the missing millions stopped a last-minute deal to sell a major part of MF Global to another brokerage firm from going ahead, The New York Times reported.
Missing millions is concerning MF Global's brokerage accounts for private investors. Hence the part about "sell a major part of MF Global to another brokerage firm." The dizzying losses are from MF Global's proprietary trading operation. The missing money suggests that there was a lack of account segregation and that MF Global borrowed from its brokerage customers to continue its prop-trading play. It's an accounting travesty, and if true, the auditors (Price-waterhouse-Cooper of Enron infamy) will have been derelict in duty.
On November 01 2011 23:21 BioNova wrote: The discovery of the missing millions stopped a last-minute deal to sell a major part of MF Global to another brokerage firm from going ahead, The New York Times reported.
Missing millions is concerning MF Global's brokerage accounts for private investors. Hence the part about "sell a major part of MF Global to another brokerage firm." The dizzying losses are from MF Global's proprietary trading operation. The missing money suggests that there was a lack of account segregation and that MF Global borrowed from its brokerage customers to continue its prop-trading play. It's an accounting travesty, and if true, the auditors (Price-waterhouse-Cooper of Enron infamy) will have been derelict in duty.
or you have a new sub-standard where the 'losers' are making the news and shamed. The winners?So who wins? I'd want to read that link if you come across one
The largest U.S. banks are just around this corner. You're right about what the next thread title should be.
There is a lot of tension within the European community at the moment. Personally I hope for the dissolution of the E.U. My hopes are to go in the other direction, towards autonomy and sovereignty and away from the new world order and one world government.
But yeah, if this referendum doesn't get passed it's gonna cause some serious problems.
Actually read the article and the comments, it becomes apparent its a NATO deal where the Greeks get 400 tanks, paying only for transport, and then refurbish them themselves, hoping to get about ~100 working tanks out of the process.
The Greeks should REJECT the bailout package. The Greek people should not have to pay for the bad investment choices of German and French banks. In capitalism the stupid banks should go bust. Either that or the Germans/French should prop their own bloody banks up.
Fucking damnit, I never had strong feelings towards Greece but the Greece premier is driving me nuts. When I heard that the EU finally unanimously agreed to a resolution I thought that maybe things'll get better now but now he pulls this shit. A referendum will at least take until January.
This damn crisis has fucked me over enough already. I am studying in Japan for 6 months and had to exchange money at the low rate of 1€ for 100Yen which is terrible. Now that I get the prospect of a rising Euro this happens.
Sorry for my choice of words but that some guy playing politics in Greece affects me personally so strongly just annoys me.
I for one find it amusing that half the Western world is outraged that an administration dares to ask the sovereign over matters that might decide their fate for years if not decades.
On November 03 2011 00:14 zatic wrote: I for one find it amusing that half the Western world is outraged that an administration dares to ask the sovereign over matters that might decide their fate for years if not decades.
That might be because they have a monetary union and "their" fate is more like "our" fate. Not that it's not a global market regardless but having a common currency makes us have a stronger economical link.
Also even if I am mad that doesn't mean that I don't understand that they naturally act in their own interest but if that's all they do than what good is the union?
Greece ruined it, I can accept alot of excuses but mishandling your economy for 15+ years is one thing... but then doing this referendum just as it finally seemed to cool down?...
Greece ruined it. Not much more to say. I hope, but doupt, that the EU will survive this and if not so we'll atleast create a newer and more refined version (hopefully) where stricter control is ushered. Yes centralization is the way to go people! United States of Europa.
On November 03 2011 00:28 Krehlmar wrote: Greece ruined it, I can accept alot of excuses but mishandling your economy for 15+ years is one thing... but then doing this referendum just as it finally seemed to cool down?...
Greece ruined it. Not much more to say. I hope, but doupt, that the EU will survive this and if not so we'll atleast create a newer and more refined version (hopefully) where stricter control is ushered. Yes centralization is the way to go people! United States of Europa.
Im still in favor of a northern EU without the mediterranean countries. Just look at the difference how ireland handled the crisis and how greece did. We dont have enough incommon with the southern countries. Different mentalities only create trouble for everyone.
Whoever thinks is just a greek problem , is just ignorant . The whole south plus smaller countries have serious problems , including italy , spain , portugal , ireland and if england was in euro they should have big time problems as well.
Greek non domestic debt atm doesnt surpass 50 billion , the whole other debt is domestic one.
The whole problem started with leehman brothers and the general real estate and banking problem u.s faced couple of years ago.
Is that u.s has a solid monetary policy ( plus dollars as oil reserves) thats allow them to cut money whenever they way without facing inflation.
Something that Europian union cannot , because it lacks the system and will create immerse inflation ( although some argue that bancrapt economies dont create inflation )
The probelm isnt greece or portugal or italy , its mainly Germany and the inability of European union to find true solotuions.
Thing is that germany get hygely benefit from a low valuated euro due to her exports. A euro germany based will have been around 1.8 - 2.0 terms of dollars which is now 1.35. Also germany benefits greatly from secondary bond market let alone the huge interest rates that take from Greece ( 15.8 %) .
Also Greece doesnt have much of a choice. Fact is that china and russia both try to lend Greece money with 1.5% interest rate , but both Germany and esp u.s declined. Thet last prime minister left early due to cia pressures and all russia - china projectss got cancelled.
Greeks lost billions of dollars and then led to imf without the ppl to know.
Furthermore twice china try lend greeks but european union refuse.
As for tanks , greece used to buy 40% of germanys weaponry arsenal and billions of dollars to u.s wepaons industries , each year.
Have they not theres the usuall Turkey pressure which goes away when Greeks buy weapons.
I can understand that most of you arent familiar with behind the table politics but at least try to read some economics like kurgman etc and see that the fundamendal problem isnt greece or ireland but rather the whole European unions bank sector and the lack of comperative advantages for he north and smaller countries compare with Germany and the north.
Having said all those i can admit that Greece has serious internal problems wich starts with bad politicians , problematic laws , tax frauds , big public sector and soo many other smaller ones.
Last the real reason why Greece wasnt thrown away from the E.e are the cds . Leeman brothers owned u.s 60 billion , when the goverment left them to basnkrapt they had to pay 700-800 billions in cds > it also requires 750 empolyees to work for 15 years to find who owns who.
Same with Greece , theier outside debt 50-60 billion outside debt the cds could be a trillion that none wants to pay if they go off the e.e.
There has been a number of news regarding a fusion between G4S (security firm) and ISS (cleaning-services). The fusion totally collapsed yesterday, when it was clear that the shareholders in G4S had not been asked and they did not see any advantage in it. The fusion would have been one of the biggest in Denmark ever approved and it would have been 44 billion worth of shares changing hand. Boring story, but a few interesting informations: Goldman Sacks and EQT were looking to gain 30 % on their shares in ISS. In the spring ISS stocks was at 100 a piece and had a negative projection because of the general market. the price would be 130 a piece if the fusion would have happened. Analysts were surprised at the price since they previously in the spring had denied buying ISS off for a price of 100 per share. What Prudential as the majority-shareholder in G4S was thinking, god only knows since they had to have at least 80 % of shareholders for the fusion.
In other words though it was a danish and british company about to merge, it was several US speculaters trying to call the shots in abroad markets and worse: They are all part of scandals in the US as TBTF-companies.
Having this in mind, it is not important to destinguish between the european and american problems on the stock excnages, since they are generally related to the same multinational investers and shocks from the big bubble bust in 2008.
Calling europe worse off than US is wrong since the european union is not even close to as homogenous or influential as the United States. You have to look at each country in europe as independent national economies even though the politicians are trying to create another illusion.
Southern europe has never had as good a government-economy as the rest of western europe and their weakness is therefore no surprise after the bubble burst. (may i remind you of the Lire in Italy. It was inflated to the point of uselessness and some people brought other currencies to Italy because noone trusted it)
Ireland had a completely ridiculous development in number of houses and the economy had insane growth because of the pricing-bubble. It is basically a problem created by outside sources even though it could have been controlled a lot better.
Iceland had a completely irresponsible banking-sector and government pulling in dept at an insane rate and crashing to no surprise of the other nordic countries who shyed away from borrowing to Iceland in general (contrary to US, UK, France and to some extend benelux).
EPT![[image loading]](http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/jpg/misc-are-you-fucking-kidding-me.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/s1bPx.png)
