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Teroru I really think your idea of getting closer to perfection is easier in this game thus the game is better than another which is more difficult to become near perfect at(absolute perfection is a mirage yes) is fundamentally flawed.
In the competition level, having a chance to improve(get even nearer perfection) is what makes a sport better, spectator and player wise. Would people enjoy football as much as they do if all they ever saw was perfect crosses, always on target shots or nigh impossible saves? You'd know what would happen beforehand, so why bother with it?
From the players' point of view, how would they try harder at their sport if they knew a great number of people could easily get really close to their level? There'd just be only superstars, which in itself makes superstardom obsolete, doesnt it? And then the sport'd degenerate.
Closeness to perfection means stability and repetitiveness, which create boredom, which dont make for a good sport.
And btw, how can you assume on mrx's intelligence, and obvious at that, while you have to rephrase his statement so as not to make it totally wrong(i find the rephrasal wrong as well, but thats just my opinion) and the rest of us cant say the original statement is stupid? He was a great starcraft player a couple of years ago, when the game wasnt really evolved much and he got to two kbk tournaments, does that automatically make him obviously intelligent? He might just have had great micro for his time or some good unit combinations which the others didnt know how to counter yet, that doesnt make him obviously intelligent. 
Hope this wasnt brainless flaming!
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On February 06 2004 01:53 ret wrote:
i played war3 and it's just a silly game, the fact i could win 2-0 vs delicato when i played for 2 weeks, and he won the CPL 1 week after, is just very silly. I think the game war3 is ok, but it's always the same and the build doesn't vary much vs different races ( i played with human ) most important things are cleverness in creeping and microing as close to perfect as u can.
delicato didnt win
he lost to bjarke
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Anyone think if Nada played War3 seriously for 2 months he'd rape the shit out of Insomnia, or at least be close to his level of "perfection"? garimto did, although he was #1 in less than 2 months 
Perhaps what Insomnia means by "more advanced" is the stuff like binding multiple buildings to one hotkey, autocast, etc. In his opinion these things are "more advanced."
thats not really more advanced =\, that lets you do things easier, its making things simpler for you. like the idle peons button, lol ?? this is baby stuff..
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On February 06 2004 08:13 Randomizing wrote: Show nested quote +On February 06 2004 08:06 Filthy. wrote:
this forum is full of retards.
people like w3 because u micro for 95% of the game where as in bw u stand around doing nothing with ur units for 80% of the game.
i wont try and say why i think its better but i will say that nobody hear should say why its worse when they clearly havent played it much and u make statements about the game that are completley false
for example aseq almost everything u said about w3 is wrong this guy is so right! i played bw for 4 years orso and in the beginning when i started playing w3 i thought the game was crap and slow as well but when u get a higher level and start playing vs skilled people the game is twice as hard as sc because of the high level of micro that is needed to win vs a descent player.
twice as hard? sc does nothing for you, war3 does like 30% of the micro/macro for you.. auto cast, rally to hero, multiple buildings in 1 hotkey, idle peon button
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On February 06 2004 08:06 Filthy. wrote:
this forum is full of retards.
people like w3 because u micro for 95% of the game where as in bw u stand around doing nothing with ur units for 80% of the game.
i wont try and say why i think its better but i will say that nobody hear should say why its worse when they clearly havent played it much and u make statements about the game that are completley false
for example aseq almost everything u said about w3 is wrong
whats the first thing you do in bw?
your split, instant micro right off the bat.
theres nothing like that in war3, the first time you have to micro in war3 is maybe like 3 minutes into the game where your peons might be getting harassed or something.
if you do nothing with your units for 80% of the game, you must not win very much 
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On February 06 2004 03:21 Ilintar wrote:
Hmmm...
I've talked to some good Polish TFT players (25+ lvl on Euro), and generally they agree that WC3 is basically just a game of abused strategies and counters. There is virtually one counter for every major strategy, so it all boils down to perfect timing and build orders. I don't believe that makes a game fun or attractive. True, there's the micro factor that actually requires skill, but BW requires so much more. Most important of that - in BW you have to improvise. WC3 never leaves you with a situation that you're totally unprepared for - if your opponent does a really bizarre build, it probably sucks outright so you don't even have to prepare for it, if it does, it's _THE_ new abuse that will reign for like the next 2 months until someone finds _THE_ counter for it. If that's what Insomnia understood as "this game can be played perfectly" well, yes, I agree. I don't believe it makes WC3 a better game, however. thankyou, i sort of said this in an above post
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On February 06 2004 04:18 Macrophage wrote:
i couldnt read all thats written here but i find this interesting:
bw and strategy games in general are no more BASED on intelligence than any first person shooter. on high lvl bw can sometimes, seldomly, have something to do with intelligence, more then high lvl fps, but average bw player certainly uses his mind less than high lvl fps player :>.
and wc3/tft doenst require intelligence almost at all. you may anticipate what your opponents doing and where he is creeping etc (experience, but not much intelligence req here).
fps isnt about intelligence at all, its about coordination/reactoin time, and hearing (in cs hearing stuff is very improtant)
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because his skill amount is better than the luck that might be put against him.
ok lets say renoma played a clone of himself, now the winner = ??
thats right, the one that gets the better item drops --
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Braavos36379 Posts
killing peons does almost nothing in war3. there is no choice between making less peons and more units or making more peons for advantage later, as there players rarely go over one expansion. the entire economic system is equalized too much, the inherent base defense is too strong.
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"ROFLOL
RIGHT 80% OF THE GAME I DO NOTHING.
STop playing fastest map ever plz.."
just go watch a rep then and see how often ur attacking - if its more than 20% of the time i would be very surprised your flame is obviously ur stupidity showing through
"how does war3 reward intelligence? do tier3 units always beat tier1 units? no (unless you go tauren w/ orc)
does going anti casters beat a player who goes casters? no (unless you go faerie dragons w/ night elf)
etc etc.."
again you speak like you know what ur talking when u dont
items are fairly well balanced atm and i really cant remember the last game i played or watching a replay where item drops won the game
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again you speak like you know what ur talking when u dont
items are fairly well balanced atm and i really cant remember the last game i played or watching a replay where item drops won the game
no they arent. open up world editor =\
i obbed a game last night, 1 of my friend crept medium (orange) creeps and he got unholy aura, he also crept red creeps and he got instant +6 food (summon furlbolg)
my other friend crept red creeps and he got globe of revealing. WOW!!! i forgot the other drops -_-;;
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On February 06 2004 08:38 Filthy. wrote:
just go watch a rep then and see how often ur attacking - if its more than 20% of the time i would be very surprised your flame is obviously ur stupidity showing through
if you say 20% of the time is attacking in brood war, its even less in war3
war3 is usually 1 battle, whoever loses that battle loses the game. not like that in brodo war buddy.
watch some high lvl bw replays then war3 replays, youd be surprised
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On February 06 2004 08:34 intotherei wrote: because his skill amount is better than the luck that might be put against him. ok lets say renoma played a clone of himself, now the winner = ?? thats right, the one that gets the better item drops --
what the hell?
it would be impossible for someone to win 93% of the time at the highest level of competition if luck was any kind of a factor
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not really. in order for luck to be a factor, it has to be that the luck factor is GREATER THAN the players skill factor.
obviously renoma is a very skilled war3 player, thus the luck in his games barely matters. if renoma played someone of equal skill, the luck factor would become more apparent.
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On February 06 2004 08:33 intotherei wrote: Show nested quote +On February 06 2004 04:18 Macrophage wrote:
i couldnt read all thats written here but i find this interesting:
bw and strategy games in general are no more BASED on intelligence than any first person shooter. on high lvl bw can sometimes, seldomly, have something to do with intelligence, more then high lvl fps, but average bw player certainly uses his mind less than high lvl fps player :>.
and wc3/tft doenst require intelligence almost at all. you may anticipate what your opponents doing and where he is creeping etc (experience, but not much intelligence req here). fps isnt about intelligence at all, its about coordination/reactoin time, and hearing (in cs hearing stuff is very improtant)
no you dont get my point at all and it aint my fault.
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On February 06 2004 08:52 Macrophage wrote: Show nested quote +On February 06 2004 08:33 intotherei wrote: On February 06 2004 04:18 Macrophage wrote:
i couldnt read all thats written here but i find this interesting:
bw and strategy games in general are no more BASED on intelligence than any first person shooter. on high lvl bw can sometimes, seldomly, have something to do with intelligence, more then high lvl fps, but average bw player certainly uses his mind less than high lvl fps player :>.
and wc3/tft doenst require intelligence almost at all. you may anticipate what your opponents doing and where he is creeping etc (experience, but not much intelligence req here). fps isnt about intelligence at all, its about coordination/reactoin time, and hearing (in cs hearing stuff is very improtant) no you dont get my point at all and it aint my fault.
you: strategy games are no more based on intelligence than any fps
you: high lvl bw can sometimes have something to do with intelligence, but rarely
you: avg bw player uses his mind less than high lvl fps player
me: fps is about co-ordinatoin and reaction
what is there to "get"? i dont see any underlying points. sorry
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"if you say 20% of the time is attacking in brood war, its even less in war3
war3 is usually 1 battle, whoever loses that battle loses the game. not like that in brodo war buddy.
watch some high lvl bw replays then war3 replays, youd be surprised"
again u dont know what ur talking about, in w3 you are constantly scouting and attacking - often at two places at the same time... i have played bw a lot and at a high level so i do know what im talking about with bw probably more than most people here
another thing ive noticed is that people criticise w3 by the fact that "theres only 1 strat", can u please tell me the last time anyone on this forum didnt go mech in tvp, or bionic in zvt, etc. i know people will say but its all the variations in the mech that make bw so strategically deep, but the same elements are in w3 - the basic strat is generally the same but every game there are different variations as the game plays out.
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again u dont know what ur talking about, in w3 you are constantly scouting and attacking - often at two places at the same time... i have played bw a lot and at a high level so i do know what im talking about with bw probably more than most people here buddy, i just watched sky-tf vs l_clan_mykk last night. (both high lvl players) and there was barely any attacking.
youve played bw at high lvls really? gamei rating?? wgtour rating?? ._.a
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Sweden33719 Posts
On February 06 2004 08:38 Filthy. wrote:
"ROFLOL
RIGHT 80% OF THE GAME I DO NOTHING.
STop playing fastest map ever plz.."
just go watch a rep then and see how often ur attacking - if its more than 20% of the time i would be very surprised your flame is obviously ur stupidity showing through
"how does war3 reward intelligence? do tier3 units always beat tier1 units? no (unless you go tauren w/ orc)
does going anti casters beat a player who goes casters? no (unless you go faerie dragons w/ night elf)
etc etc.."
again you speak like you know what ur talking when u dont
items are fairly well balanced atm and i really cant remember the last game i played or watching a replay where item drops won the game
http://www.yaoyuan.com/show.php?SID=21650
Watch that and tell me I attack 20%... If you do tell me that, then you are obviously blind. And yes, all my games have the same amount of attacks in them - non fucking stop -_-
You seem to think the only kind of attack is to win the game, there's skirmishes, harass, rush, breakouts, killing expansions ETC. NON STOP BATTLES AND PRODUCTION AT THE SAME TIME!
And WTF -
PvZ -
Fast expo (follow up with basic macro, sair reaver, carrier, rush follow up)
1 gate (1 gate sair dt, 1 gate sair -> 3 gate leg zealot, 1 gate templar cannon expo, 1 gate sair reaver goon, 1 gate sair reaver etc, 1 gate sair web)
2 gate (9/10 or 10/12, rush to kill, rush to delay, 2 gate to expo, 2 gate with fast gas, 2 gate safe tech etc)
Proxy gates, proxy tech etc
PvT -
1 gate goon-> obs->range, 1 gate lot-> range-> goon -> 1 gate-> range->expo, 2 gate goons with range, 1 gate fast ob range and 3 gate, 1 gate dt, 1 gate goon shuttle, 1 gate reaver, 1 gate reaver dt, 1 gate elevator)
2 gate, proxy
PvP - 2 gate with tech, rush - then goon/dt/ht/pure goon
1 gate with similiar options
TvP -
BBS, 'bacanic' (tank and marine push), marine scv, Gundam, fake gundam expo, 1 fac cc, 1 fac starport, 3 fac vult, 2 fac vult, 2 fac vult drop, 1 fac starport and cc ETC.
TvZ - BBS, 2 rax rush, scv rush, 2 rax tech, 2 rax fire terran (fast acad units 3 rax), 2 rax fac (drop or tank), 1 fac vult or wraith, 2 rax fast upgrade, dual engineering, 2 rax expo.
ZvT -
Use your imagination I'm tired of typing 
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EPT
