EPTYeah, you're right. On second thought capitalism is an eternal wellspring of compassion and fellow feeling.
The shock doctrine - Page 5
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tinman
United States287 Posts
Yeah, you're right. On second thought capitalism is an eternal wellspring of compassion and fellow feeling. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7916 Posts
On December 05 2009 06:02 .risingdragoon wrote: I step away for 15 min to make lunch and this thread gets dose of BULLSHIT Never step away when a thread is interesting. Anyway, a thread on capitalism is always potentially explosive on an international forum... | ||
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lOvOlUNiMEDiA
United States643 Posts
On December 05 2009 06:05 Biff The Understudy wrote: Never step away when a thread is interesting. Anyway, a thread on capitalism is always potentially explosive on an international forum... You "potentially explode" when you see a picture of Marx, don't you. | ||
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
On December 05 2009 06:04 tinman wrote: Yeah, you're right. On second thought capitalism is an eternal wellspring of compassion and fellow feeling. I hate capitalism, yet I will continue to live in America and enjoy all the benefits that it provides for me and become an ignorant, obese American that believes everything I'm told by the media. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7916 Posts
On December 05 2009 06:08 lOvOlUNiMEDiA wrote: You "potentially explode" when you see a picture of Marx, don't you. At first it was annoying, then, for a short moment, it has been funny, now it's damn boring again. I think it's fine, now, you can find something else. | ||
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lOvOlUNiMEDiA
United States643 Posts
On December 05 2009 06:11 Biff The Understudy wrote: At first it was annoying, then, for a short moment, it has been funny, now it's damn boring again. I think it's fine, now, you can find something else. I can't, Biffy. I'm stuck on you. | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On December 05 2009 06:02 .risingdragoon wrote: I step away for 15 min to make lunch and this thread gets dosed with BULLSHIT is it just me or did you decide that this On December 05 2009 05:04 Caller wrote: The idea that times of revolution and chaos are opportune times to "force in" new ideologies is probably true-the very idea of the "Shock Doctrine." I don't see anything wrong with the crux of this particular argument-that times of chaos breeds times of time for people to make changes in a system. For instance: source: http://www.naomiklein.org/articles/2009/07/capitalism-sarah-palin-style was bs? | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7916 Posts
On December 05 2009 06:13 .risingdragoon wrote: I'd love to hear from ppl with actual 1st hand experience of the international monetary policies, like central and south americans, africans, etc. It would depends his own ideological conviction, I guess. My family is Argentinian. Their discourse is that IMF has imposed ultraliberal policies after the country crashed in early 2000's in exchange of its help, and that it benefits foreign big companies and not at all people who are deprived from the social help their were (not) getting. IntoTheWow would be better than me to talk about it. But from what I have experienced, I don't think people think that differently in general. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On December 05 2009 06:23 Biff The Understudy wrote: It would depends his own ideological conviction, I guess. My family is Argentinian. Their discourse is that IMF has imposed ultraliberal policies after the country crashed in early 2000's in exchange of its help, and that it benefits foreign big companies and not at all people who are deprived from the social help their were (not) getting. IntoTheWow would be better than me to talk about it. But from what I have experienced, I don't think people think that differently in general. That's pretty much what happened in Korea except the IMF didn't get their way completely. | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
Pinochet is an ass for killing people and stealing money, left wing politicians take advantage of that to stay on power (even though they are not as left wing hardcore as they used to be, and just accepted the fact that the market did worked from the 70's to 90's and therefore has continued till today). People forget that in 20 years a non-working economy got fixed into what it is today, because Pinochet dirtied up what was done with his crimes. Moreover, foreigners think Allende was some kind of hero. He was not; he fucked up my country and promoted social class fights leading to a an inevitable civil war. I am happy the military took over, even though they screw up later. What was before that was way worse, and was not gonna get any better. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7916 Posts
On December 05 2009 06:34 GoTuNk! wrote: I am so happy free market (at least on some extent) is implemented on my country I can't even begin to describe it. Most of you people have no idea at all what living under statism is; having not food to buy, money devaluating every day, an almost ongoing civil war. Pinochet is an ass for killing people and stealing money, left wing politicians take advantage of that to stay on power (even though they are not as left wing hardcore as they used to be, and just accepted the fact that the market did worked from the 70's to 90's and therefore has continued till today). People forget that in 20 years a non-working economy got fixed into what it is today, because Pinochet dirtied up what was done with his crimes. Moreover, foreigners think Allende was some kind of hero. He was not; he fucked up my country and promoted social class fights leading to a an inevitable civil war. I am happy the military took over, even though they screw up later. What was before that was way worse, and was not gonna get any better. Ouuuch. You see, what I meant? Depends the ideological position of the person you would ask. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
 On December 05 2009 06:24 koreasilver wrote: That's pretty much what happened in Korea except the IMF didn't get their way completely. not OT: every time i see IMF i think "intermolecular forces" ... fucking chemistry >.> | ||
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
On December 05 2009 06:34 GoTuNk! wrote: I am happy the military took over, even though they screw up later. What was before that was way worse, and was not gonna get any better. Well I assume you weren't very old when Pinochet was in power but I could be wrong. So maybe you didn't have to endure the tough times and see more of the possible "good" sides? | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32083 Posts
On December 05 2009 06:09 ghostWriter wrote: I hate capitalism, yet I will continue to live in America and enjoy all the benefits that it provides for me and become an ignorant, obese American that believes everything I'm told by the media. The results of over-indulgence in CAPITALISM! ![[image loading]](http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/123665/thumbs/s-OBESE-MAN-ON-AMERICAN-AIRLINES-large.jpg) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/04/obese-man-on-american-air_n_379979.html | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7916 Posts
On December 05 2009 06:47 Foucault wrote: Well I assume you weren't very old when Pinochet was in power but I could be wrong. So maybe you didn't have to endure the tough times and see more of the possible "good" sides? Well, we had a discourse in France before the second world war which was "plutôt Hitler que le front populaire" (better Hitler than the Front Populaire, which was the first left side French governement, which introduced first holidays, 8 hours work/day etc etc etc, and which was very very very much hated by the bourgeoisie and the right wingers in general). Maybe Pinochet was not Hitler, but it's not unusual that some people prefer fascism to any kinnd of socialism. | ||
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
On December 05 2009 06:51 Hawk wrote: The results of over-indulgence in CAPITALISM! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/04/obese-man-on-american-air_n_379979.html Last year United Airlines had received "more than 700 complaints last year from passengers 'who did not have a comfortable flight because the person next to them infringed on their seat,' an airline spokesman said." lololol Imagine if he didn't have the aisle seat and had to squish his body into one seat? | ||
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
On December 05 2009 06:52 Biff The Understudy wrote: Well, we had a discourse in France before the second world war which was "plutôt Hitler que le front populaire" (better Hitler than the Front Populaire, which was the first left side French governement, which introduced first holidays, 8 hours work/day etc etc etc, and which was very very very much hated by the bourgeoisie and the right wingers in general). Maybe Pinochet was not Hitler, but it's not unusual that some people prefer fascism to any kinnd of socialism. I guess that's true. People who are poor and have to make ends meet daily are more prone to seek answers in socialism/communism, which of course is quite natural because the wealth becomes divided etc. My issue with communism in general is not the actual ideology per se but the fact that it will never work due to the human nature. Greed and egoistic agendas will always prevail, sad but true. Capitalism also gives people an incentive to strive for higher education as a means to make money which as a whole makes society more intelligent, but in the end it's always at the expense of the people who for some reasons can't educate themselves and make money. So the obvious downfall with capitalism is the big differences in standards of living. | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
On December 05 2009 06:52 Biff The Understudy wrote: Well, we had a discourse in France before the second world war which was "plutôt Hitler que le front populaire" (better Hitler than the Front Populaire, which was the first left side French governement, which introduced first holidays, 8 hours work/day etc etc etc, and which was very very very much hated by the bourgeoisie and the right wingers in general). Maybe Pinochet was not Hitler, but it's not unusual that some people prefer fascism to any kinnd of socialism. Indeed I wasn't very old, but I have access to first hand testimonies from both sides. U are not taking into account the left wing which was in power; it was not some modern welfare state like france, germany or netherlands. I'm talking cold communism, like Russia or ukraine after WWII. I would not be surprised at all if things had continued it's course chilean's development would be compared to Nicaragua´s. Comparing our militar regime to Hitler is bullshit. Indeed there was a dictator, but he was not attempting to exterminate ethnics groups nor invade neighbord countries. It was a counter measure to an ongoing communist regime. Pinochet was a horrible person, but under his regime free market was instaurated. Point is people mistake one thing with another: that people where killed has nothing to do with the fact that our actual economical development is a direct consequence of the economical policies taken after 1973's. They also forget that Allende was as bad or worse than him. | ||
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
On December 05 2009 06:59 Foucault wrote: I guess that's true. People who are poor and have to make ends meet daily are more prone to seek answers in socialism/communism, which of course is quite natural because the wealth becomes divided etc. My issue with communism in general is not the actual ideology per se but the fact that it will never work due to the human nature. Greed and egoistic agendas will always prevail, sad but true. Capitalism also gives people an incentive to strive for higher education as a means to make money which as a whole makes society more intelligent, but in the end it's always at the expense of the people who for some reasons can't educate themselves and make money. So the obvious downfall with capitalism is the big differences in standards of living. Also the fact that people who already have a lot of money and power use it to promote their own progeny and keep others down. There's a ton of people who are in ivy league schools that don't deserve to be there, simply because their parents are rich or powerful. Just look at George W. Bush. There are many times when your connections and your status are more important than your abilities and your accomplishments. However, in general, capitalism does tend to reward those with ideas, abilities and accomplishments. | ||
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