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On November 30 2009 09:26 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:23 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:18 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:12 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:09 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:06 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:02 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 08:59 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 08:58 koreasilver wrote:
How could anyone possibly think Muslim extremists have more power and influence than the Western world? Even if the Western powers are starting to lose grip of their absolute power over the world slowly, they still are, with no doubt, the greatest powers in the world still.
I mean, if these Muslim extremists had more power and influence than anyone else in the world, why would they have split and ran when America started the war? Guerrilla warfare and terrorism is practiced by the weaker side in asymmetrical warfare. The Western world is not run by religious extremists. That has nothing to do with what my post was about. You could have said, "but Muslims don't eat pork," and it would have made about the same amount of sense. You were attempting to change the subject. We were talking about extremists. No extremists have as much power as Muslim extremists, and therefore none are as dangerous. I was never talking specifically about extremists, and even under the idea of extremists, neo-liberal extremists have done much worse over the world than the Muslim extremists. I don't even know how you can believe this. Because controlling the IMF and other prominent international organizations and hijacking several South American countries, South Africa, and other various countries and shoving their laissez faire economics into these countries and stealing their public sectors with the help of militaristic counter-revolutionists has killed far more people in the past 60 years than Muslim extremists have in the past 60 years, and these neo-liberals have driven more people into poverty than these Muslim extremists as well. But it's okay. You're an ignorant fool, and evidently spending my time replying to a you is a waste of my time. Even beyond your ideas you don't know how to read or reply properly anyway. Just... no. Do some research on the history of the Middle East for the past 50 years and come back. Atomic bomb. Don't come back.
tsunami, go home
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On November 30 2009 09:26 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:23 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:18 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:12 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:09 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:06 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:02 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 08:59 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 08:58 koreasilver wrote:
How could anyone possibly think Muslim extremists have more power and influence than the Western world? Even if the Western powers are starting to lose grip of their absolute power over the world slowly, they still are, with no doubt, the greatest powers in the world still.
I mean, if these Muslim extremists had more power and influence than anyone else in the world, why would they have split and ran when America started the war? Guerrilla warfare and terrorism is practiced by the weaker side in asymmetrical warfare. The Western world is not run by religious extremists. That has nothing to do with what my post was about. You could have said, "but Muslims don't eat pork," and it would have made about the same amount of sense. You were attempting to change the subject. We were talking about extremists. No extremists have as much power as Muslim extremists, and therefore none are as dangerous. I was never talking specifically about extremists, and even under the idea of extremists, neo-liberal extremists have done much worse over the world than the Muslim extremists. I don't even know how you can believe this. Because controlling the IMF and other prominent international organizations and hijacking several South American countries, South Africa, and other various countries and shoving their laissez faire economics into these countries and stealing their public sectors with the help of militaristic counter-revolutionists has killed far more people in the past 60 years than Muslim extremists have in the past 60 years, and these neo-liberals have driven more people into poverty than these Muslim extremists as well. But it's okay. You're an ignorant fool, and evidently spending my time replying to a you is a waste of my time. Even beyond your ideas you don't know how to read or reply properly anyway. Just... no. Do some research on the history of the Middle East for the past 50 years and come back. Atomic bomb. Don't come back.
What religion was behind the atomic bomb?
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On November 30 2009 09:26 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 08:24 Yizuo wrote:
IMO this ban is pure bullshit, the people are blinded by fear of different cultures and religions. "The free western world" should always uphold their values of open-mindedness and tolerance, the decision made by the swiss people is a step in the wrong direction. imo, this is bullshit because Islam isn't known to be a very open-minded religion. Why should we go about promoting islam for the sake of being politically correct when instead we should promote ideas that are actually good for people. Women wearing burkas and hardly having any rights is not something I want to push for.
Agreed. Also, look at the reaction when some relatively obscure Danish newspaper printed a comic that showed a representation of the prophet Mohammed.
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On November 30 2009 09:24 TheAntZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 08:08 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 08:04 distant_voice wrote:On November 30 2009 08:02 Whiplash wrote:On November 30 2009 07:52 Foucault wrote:
I don't really see a reason to spread religion in the world to be honest. Islam to me is oppression and women being held down by ridiculous religious beliefs. Of course there are nice things to arabic culture, but Islam is not it I agree completely, and I think this is the consensus of most people in Switzerland. yeah, and Christianity is drinking blood, crusades, inquisitions and witch hunts. be more ignorant please. Islam still has honor killings, excuses for rape including blaming the victim, the death penalty for homosexuality, and no rights for women. How many of the Christian things you mentioned are still around? you are a dumb motherfucker. like really, really dumb. None of that is true, you're completely ignorant. Do you live in a muslim country? Have you experienced the culture of one firsthand? no? then shut the fuck up
Did I say all Muslim countries? And there have even been honor killings in the US, though they are of course illegal.
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On November 30 2009 09:27 Orome wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:22 SuperArc wrote:On November 30 2009 09:21 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:On November 30 2009 09:19 Orome wrote:On November 30 2009 09:14 KissBlade wrote:On November 30 2009 08:41 Orome wrote:
I learned what it feels like to feel ashamed of your country today. =/ No need to beat yourself over it, governments are rarely 100% reflective of their population. Especially the youth portion. Actually, every single citizen got to vote for or against this and 57% said yes (less than half voted though, but still). It's not a government decision, this decision is as democratic as it gets. as you pointed out, it were about 1.5 million ppl voting yes from 7.7 million ppl living in switzerland. meaning 5million didnt give a shit about it, why the hell do we even have democracy? wtf No, read his post again, 1.5 million voted yes, a slightly smaller number voted no, many of the 7.7 million are under 18 and not allowed to vote. All in all 49% of people, who are allowed to vote, voted.
its 53.4% look in the link i posted from admin.ch
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On November 30 2009 09:28 grobo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:26 KissBlade wrote:On November 30 2009 09:23 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:18 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:12 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:09 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:06 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:02 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 08:59 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 08:58 koreasilver wrote:
How could anyone possibly think Muslim extremists have more power and influence than the Western world? Even if the Western powers are starting to lose grip of their absolute power over the world slowly, they still are, with no doubt, the greatest powers in the world still.
I mean, if these Muslim extremists had more power and influence than anyone else in the world, why would they have split and ran when America started the war? Guerrilla warfare and terrorism is practiced by the weaker side in asymmetrical warfare. The Western world is not run by religious extremists. That has nothing to do with what my post was about. You could have said, "but Muslims don't eat pork," and it would have made about the same amount of sense. You were attempting to change the subject. We were talking about extremists. No extremists have as much power as Muslim extremists, and therefore none are as dangerous. I was never talking specifically about extremists, and even under the idea of extremists, neo-liberal extremists have done much worse over the world than the Muslim extremists. I don't even know how you can believe this. Because controlling the IMF and other prominent international organizations and hijacking several South American countries, South Africa, and other various countries and shoving their laissez faire economics into these countries and stealing their public sectors with the help of militaristic counter-revolutionists has killed far more people in the past 60 years than Muslim extremists have in the past 60 years, and these neo-liberals have driven more people into poverty than these Muslim extremists as well. But it's okay. You're an ignorant fool, and evidently spending my time replying to a you is a waste of my time. Even beyond your ideas you don't know how to read or reply properly anyway. Just... no. Do some research on the history of the Middle East for the past 50 years and come back. Atomic bomb. Don't come back. What religion was behind the atomic bomb?
It wasn't an argument for or against any religion ...?
On November 30 2009 09:27 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:
tsunami, go home
This doesn't even make any sense ...
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On November 30 2009 09:29 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:28 grobo wrote:On November 30 2009 09:26 KissBlade wrote:On November 30 2009 09:23 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:18 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:12 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:09 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:06 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:02 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 08:59 jalstar wrote:
[quote]
The Western world is not run by religious extremists. That has nothing to do with what my post was about. You could have said, "but Muslims don't eat pork," and it would have made about the same amount of sense. You were attempting to change the subject. We were talking about extremists. No extremists have as much power as Muslim extremists, and therefore none are as dangerous. I was never talking specifically about extremists, and even under the idea of extremists, neo-liberal extremists have done much worse over the world than the Muslim extremists. I don't even know how you can believe this. Because controlling the IMF and other prominent international organizations and hijacking several South American countries, South Africa, and other various countries and shoving their laissez faire economics into these countries and stealing their public sectors with the help of militaristic counter-revolutionists has killed far more people in the past 60 years than Muslim extremists have in the past 60 years, and these neo-liberals have driven more people into poverty than these Muslim extremists as well. But it's okay. You're an ignorant fool, and evidently spending my time replying to a you is a waste of my time. Even beyond your ideas you don't know how to read or reply properly anyway. Just... no. Do some research on the history of the Middle East for the past 50 years and come back. Atomic bomb. Don't come back. What religion was behind the atomic bomb? It wasn't an argument for or against any religion ...?
Bingo.
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On November 30 2009 09:26 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 08:24 Yizuo wrote:
IMO this ban is pure bullshit, the people are blinded by fear of different cultures and religions. "The free western world" should always uphold their values of open-mindedness and tolerance, the decision made by the swiss people is a step in the wrong direction. imo, this is bullshit because Islam isn't known to be a very open-minded religion. Why should we go about promoting islam for the sake of being politically correct when instead we should promote ideas that are actually good for people. Women wearing burkas and hardly having any rights is not something I want to push for.
You do know there are many varying opinions on issues amongst Muslims, right? You are quite ignorant if you believe all Muslims believe in the extreme interpretation of the Shariah that came into effect when the Taliban gained power.
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All religious people are ignorant to science and it offends me.
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On November 30 2009 09:28 ghostWriter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:26 Foucault wrote:On November 30 2009 08:24 Yizuo wrote:
IMO this ban is pure bullshit, the people are blinded by fear of different cultures and religions. "The free western world" should always uphold their values of open-mindedness and tolerance, the decision made by the swiss people is a step in the wrong direction. imo, this is bullshit because Islam isn't known to be a very open-minded religion. Why should we go about promoting islam for the sake of being politically correct when instead we should promote ideas that are actually good for people. Women wearing burkas and hardly having any rights is not something I want to push for. Agreed. Also, look at the reaction when some relatively obscure Danish newspaper printed a comic that showed a representation of the prophet Mohammed.
This is like saying all Christians are ignorant murderers because some lunatics bombed abortion clinics.
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On November 30 2009 09:33 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:28 ghostWriter wrote:On November 30 2009 09:26 Foucault wrote:On November 30 2009 08:24 Yizuo wrote:
IMO this ban is pure bullshit, the people are blinded by fear of different cultures and religions. "The free western world" should always uphold their values of open-mindedness and tolerance, the decision made by the swiss people is a step in the wrong direction. imo, this is bullshit because Islam isn't known to be a very open-minded religion. Why should we go about promoting islam for the sake of being politically correct when instead we should promote ideas that are actually good for people. Women wearing burkas and hardly having any rights is not something I want to push for. Agreed. Also, look at the reaction when some relatively obscure Danish newspaper printed a comic that showed a representation of the prophet Mohammed. This is like saying all Christians are ignorant murderers because some lunatics bombed abortion clinics.
A few people bombing abortion clinics is the same thing as millions of people rioting all over the world?
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On November 30 2009 09:28 ghostWriter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:26 Foucault wrote:On November 30 2009 08:24 Yizuo wrote:
IMO this ban is pure bullshit, the people are blinded by fear of different cultures and religions. "The free western world" should always uphold their values of open-mindedness and tolerance, the decision made by the swiss people is a step in the wrong direction. imo, this is bullshit because Islam isn't known to be a very open-minded religion. Why should we go about promoting islam for the sake of being politically correct when instead we should promote ideas that are actually good for people. Women wearing burkas and hardly having any rights is not something I want to push for. Agreed. Also, look at the reaction when some relatively obscure Danish newspaper printed a comic that showed a representation of the prophet Mohammed.
Yeah. Those comics created a monumental shitstorm in the arabic world. I was watching it unfold in disbelief, and the pictures weren't even that bad. It shows how diehard alot of muslims are; foreign embassies were threatened and attacked, it was ridiculous. They burned danish flags and they filmed people saying that all danish citizens deserve to die and what not.
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United States41934 Posts
All Buddhists are wankers.
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On November 30 2009 09:30 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:29 KissBlade wrote:On November 30 2009 09:28 grobo wrote:On November 30 2009 09:26 KissBlade wrote:On November 30 2009 09:23 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:18 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:12 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:09 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:06 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:02 koreasilver wrote:
[quote]
That has nothing to do with what my post was about.
You could have said, "but Muslims don't eat pork," and it would have made about the same amount of sense. You were attempting to change the subject. We were talking about extremists. No extremists have as much power as Muslim extremists, and therefore none are as dangerous. I was never talking specifically about extremists, and even under the idea of extremists, neo-liberal extremists have done much worse over the world than the Muslim extremists. I don't even know how you can believe this. Because controlling the IMF and other prominent international organizations and hijacking several South American countries, South Africa, and other various countries and shoving their laissez faire economics into these countries and stealing their public sectors with the help of militaristic counter-revolutionists has killed far more people in the past 60 years than Muslim extremists have in the past 60 years, and these neo-liberals have driven more people into poverty than these Muslim extremists as well. But it's okay. You're an ignorant fool, and evidently spending my time replying to a you is a waste of my time. Even beyond your ideas you don't know how to read or reply properly anyway. Just... no. Do some research on the history of the Middle East for the past 50 years and come back. Atomic bomb. Don't come back. What religion was behind the atomic bomb? It wasn't an argument for or against any religion ...? Bingo.
You're not even making any sense. Not that you were in the first place. You were trying to argue that Muslim extremists have killed more in the past 60 years than non Muslims. I was pointing out, NO?
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On November 30 2009 09:28 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:24 TheAntZ wrote:On November 30 2009 08:08 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 08:04 distant_voice wrote:On November 30 2009 08:02 Whiplash wrote:On November 30 2009 07:52 Foucault wrote:
I don't really see a reason to spread religion in the world to be honest. Islam to me is oppression and women being held down by ridiculous religious beliefs. Of course there are nice things to arabic culture, but Islam is not it I agree completely, and I think this is the consensus of most people in Switzerland. yeah, and Christianity is drinking blood, crusades, inquisitions and witch hunts. be more ignorant please. Islam still has honor killings, excuses for rape including blaming the victim, the death penalty for homosexuality, and no rights for women. How many of the Christian things you mentioned are still around? you are a dumb motherfucker. like really, really dumb. None of that is true, you're completely ignorant. Do you live in a muslim country? Have you experienced the culture of one firsthand? no? then shut the fuck up Did I say all Muslim countries? And there have even been honor killings in the US, though they are of course illegal.
In no muslim country is this condoned anymore. When it is done religion is the excuse, the problem is the idiots who perpetrate the stupidity, the country, not the religion. Bangladesh is an entirely muslim country with a muslim culture, and you never see shit like that being acceptable there. Why not? The predominant religion IS Islam. Or maybe...its the people/country/atmosphere they were raised in and not the religion? Its like saying Christianity is horribly wrong because of the crusades, and because its used as an excuse to discriminate against gays. Thats fucking stupid
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On November 30 2009 09:30 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:26 Foucault wrote:On November 30 2009 08:24 Yizuo wrote:
IMO this ban is pure bullshit, the people are blinded by fear of different cultures and religions. "The free western world" should always uphold their values of open-mindedness and tolerance, the decision made by the swiss people is a step in the wrong direction. imo, this is bullshit because Islam isn't known to be a very open-minded religion. Why should we go about promoting islam for the sake of being politically correct when instead we should promote ideas that are actually good for people. Women wearing burkas and hardly having any rights is not something I want to push for. You do know there are many varying opinions on issues amongst Muslims, right? You are quite ignorant if you believe all Muslims believe in the extreme interpretation of the Shariah that came into effect when the Taliban gained power.
No, not all do but alot of muslims do. While some are more liberal or want to come across as more liberal in order to gain influence in the western world, they are quite stone age about many things like womens rights and even the not-so-hardcore muslims still have strong opinions on many subjects which I don't agree with at all.
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On November 30 2009 08:31 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 08:22 ghostWriter wrote:On November 30 2009 08:17 JWD wrote:On November 30 2009 08:14 ghostWriter wrote:
I can see why they would be wary of Islamic influences. Where do you think the Paris riots came from? Ungrateful youth that should expend their time and energy on their education or a career, wasting their lives being mad at the establishment, which allows them to have protection, a home, etc. There's a big, hard to justify leap from being wary of influences and taking affirmative steps to eliminate them. If you immigrate to a different country, it's your job to assimilate into the existing culture. The Koran promotes violence in order for Islam to spread. Why wouldn't they eliminate threatening influences? Lawmakers should balance protecting national security/interests with the costs of restricting freedom of speech and expression. Of course eliminating threatening influences might make a country safer, but you're forgetting to consider the value of political/religious/whatever expression. Here we are critiquing the Swiss government and its laws—that could be seen as a threatening influence, why doesn't Switzerland make visiting TL illegal too?
You are aware of this being a vote. By the people.
To add something, which I think hasn't been mentioned yet:
Minarets historically are a statement of power/authority. You're from the U.S. and I think there the muslim community is (being) integrated in a much better way than in Europe. I think as there are more obstacles to overcome if you want to immigrate to the US, there is a larger proportion of educated people. Whereas in Europe a really large group of Muslims is "Trash". There's lots of talk about them because they're the biggest group of socially unintegrated people causing trouble and therefore getting much air time in the media (UK, Germany, Scandinavia, France, Netherlands, the list goes on).
So there's lots of (justified and unjustified) bias among the "native" population. I myself was strongly biased towards Islam/Muslims and I think if I would write this post with the mindset I had 2-3 years ago, I would flame you for just being on their side. Anyway, things changed and I'm trying to have a more open and objective view on all of this.
But still you can't deny the negative attitude of most people against Muslims. It's not about all that terrorist stuff, it's more about their archaic culture. The lesser people are educated, the more they are bound to their culture.
And here we get to the point. Their culture is Islam. There doesn't exist anything like cultural differences you can see when travelling to other christian countries. They rely heavily on Islam and base most of their entire life on it. That's why you can't compare it to Christianity, not even to Christianity in medieval times. Yes, life sucked then. Yes, the church was cruel and they oppressed people. But it wasn't like the religion controlled their whole life. There is a rule to everything in Islam.
In the arabic countries they still dish out hundreds of fatwas for modern stuff like usage of mobiles.
In the past I was heavily biased to Islam because of personal experiences (turkish/arabic youth in Germany). Nowadays that I've educated myself on all this stuff I kinda understand why shit is like it is, but this doesn't mean I think it's good.
On November 30 2009 08:41 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 08:36 JWD wrote:On November 30 2009 08:33 DwmC_Foefen wrote:
Switzerland is just trying to be neutral, even when it comes to religion ^^
neutrality = banning minarets?  Seriously. Banning Muslims from building minarets is pretty much saying "fuck off you're not welcome here".
I seriously hate this multi-cultural-is-so-awesome stuff. Switzerland historically is a Christian country, based on Christian views and morals. You want a room to pray to allah? They already have those. Muslims constantly talk about respect and tolerance. In my eyes, respect is mutual. I would never ever emigrate to some country, no matter how many of my fellow countrymen/ppl of the same religious beliefs are with me, and demand things exclusive to my culture/religion.
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On November 30 2009 09:35 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:28 ghostWriter wrote:On November 30 2009 09:26 Foucault wrote:On November 30 2009 08:24 Yizuo wrote:
IMO this ban is pure bullshit, the people are blinded by fear of different cultures and religions. "The free western world" should always uphold their values of open-mindedness and tolerance, the decision made by the swiss people is a step in the wrong direction. imo, this is bullshit because Islam isn't known to be a very open-minded religion. Why should we go about promoting islam for the sake of being politically correct when instead we should promote ideas that are actually good for people. Women wearing burkas and hardly having any rights is not something I want to push for. Agreed. Also, look at the reaction when some relatively obscure Danish newspaper printed a comic that showed a representation of the prophet Mohammed. Yeah. Those comics created a monumental shitstorm in the arabic world. I was watching it unfold in disbelief, and the pictures weren't even that bad. It shows how diehard alot of muslims are; foreign embassies were threatened and attacked, it was ridiculous. They burned danish flags and they filmed people saying that all danish citizens deserve to die and what not.
Yeah, watch a few videos of american redneck reactions when gay marriage was legalized. So, Christians are all extreme ok np?
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United States41934 Posts
Stupid fuckers worship cows. What is up with that lol. We eat your God. Idiot Musli.
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On November 30 2009 09:36 TheAntZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:28 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:24 TheAntZ wrote:On November 30 2009 08:08 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 08:04 distant_voice wrote:On November 30 2009 08:02 Whiplash wrote:On November 30 2009 07:52 Foucault wrote:
I don't really see a reason to spread religion in the world to be honest. Islam to me is oppression and women being held down by ridiculous religious beliefs. Of course there are nice things to arabic culture, but Islam is not it I agree completely, and I think this is the consensus of most people in Switzerland. yeah, and Christianity is drinking blood, crusades, inquisitions and witch hunts. be more ignorant please. Islam still has honor killings, excuses for rape including blaming the victim, the death penalty for homosexuality, and no rights for women. How many of the Christian things you mentioned are still around? you are a dumb motherfucker. like really, really dumb. None of that is true, you're completely ignorant. Do you live in a muslim country? Have you experienced the culture of one firsthand? no? then shut the fuck up Did I say all Muslim countries? And there have even been honor killings in the US, though they are of course illegal. Its like saying Christianity is horribly wrong because of the crusades, and because its used as an excuse to discriminate against gays. Thats fucking stupid
The crusades aren't still going on. Islam isn't the problem, the people spreading hate through the guise of Islam are.
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EPT
