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On November 30 2009 08:52 Slow Motion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 08:49 ghostWriter wrote:On November 30 2009 08:45 JWD wrote:On November 30 2009 08:43 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 08:40 ghostWriter wrote:On November 30 2009 08:38 JWD wrote:On November 30 2009 08:35 ghostWriter wrote:On November 30 2009 08:17 JWD wrote:
Lawmakers should balance protecting national security/interests with the costs of restricting freedom of speech and expression. Of course eliminating threatening influences might make a country safer, but you're forgetting to consider the value of political/religious/whatever expression. Here we are critiquing the Swiss government and its laws—that could be seen as a threatening influence, why doesn't Switzerland make visiting TL illegal too? We here at TL have little, if any influence on any events that occur in Switzerland. There's nothing more dangerous to a body than internal conflict. Why should I consider any religion to have value when the concept of religion itself has no merit whatsoever? OK I get it, you don't like religion. You still haven't explained how that justifies preventing other people who do like religion from peacefully exercising their religious beliefs. Because they aren't peaceful. Granted, most people go to mosque and pray 5 times a day and don't bother anyone, but there are many people that hold up signs that say death to America or whatever and others that blow themselves up, killing innocent people for no reason other than they believe that they are fighting some sort of holy war. Almost every day, there's a news article about how some ignorant buffoon blew up a train station or something because they were misguided into believing that their actions would give them some sort of reward. That's a fucking terrible logical fallacy. Under that premise pretty much every single person on this entire goddamned planet are not peaceful because there are always people from any and every culture and subculture that are dipshits. And even if 100% of muslims were suicide bombers, I still don't see how it would be justifiable to prevent them from erecting minarets. Erecting minarets is a sign that says that they are forming their own communities within a community. A country cannot exist with internal divisions, look at Yugoslavia or Rwanda, although those were different groups put together on purpose by greater powers, it's the same sort of concept. It's a sign that instead of assimilating, they are promoting their own religion that they brought along. It's not a logical fallacy, religion promotes a lack of understanding and puts up blind faith in ridiculous notions dreamt up by 'prophets' that claimed to be the mouthpieces of a god thousands of years ago. Scientific progress has always been stifled by religion, as has freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. Yes friends, let's promote freedom of speech and religion by banning the expression of religion!
lol. because religions have historically been tolerant of other religions. Also, there are no divisions in any religion, like the split between Shia and Sunni or the split between Protestant and Catholics, which didn't lead to any bloodshed whatsoever.
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On November 30 2009 08:41 Orome wrote:
I learned what it feels like to feel ashamed of your country today. =/
No need to beat yourself over it, governments are rarely 100% reflective of their population. Especially the youth portion.
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On November 30 2009 09:13 MasterReY wrote:
i think its good. would muslime ever let us build churches in their countries? lol
If they dont accept other religions in countries where other religions are the majority then they dont deserver their religion too.
dude, they still can have their religion inswitzerland, they can still have moschees, all they cant have is a ridiculus might symbol.
On November 30 2009 09:14 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 08:41 Orome wrote:
I learned what it feels like to feel ashamed of your country today. =/ No need to beat yourself over it, governments are rarely 100% reflective of their population. Especially the youth portion.
its a reflection of 57% of the ppl over 18 able to vote with hmm dunno 30% of them voting? so this is actually a minority. I love to live in a democracy, haha.
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United States41934 Posts
On November 30 2009 09:13 MasterReY wrote:
i think its good. would muslime ever let us build churches in their countries? lol
If they dont accept other religions in countries where other religions are the majority then they dont deserver their religion too.
They started it is not an argument adults use.
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swiss ppl are saying this: (simplified)
"come to our home, eat with us, you can also bring your own food, BUT DONT EAT WITH YOUR HANDS!, we use forks over here, k thx bye"
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On November 30 2009 09:12 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:09 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:06 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:02 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 08:59 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 08:58 koreasilver wrote:
How could anyone possibly think Muslim extremists have more power and influence than the Western world? Even if the Western powers are starting to lose grip of their absolute power over the world slowly, they still are, with no doubt, the greatest powers in the world still.
I mean, if these Muslim extremists had more power and influence than anyone else in the world, why would they have split and ran when America started the war? Guerrilla warfare and terrorism is practiced by the weaker side in asymmetrical warfare. The Western world is not run by religious extremists. That has nothing to do with what my post was about. You could have said, "but Muslims don't eat pork," and it would have made about the same amount of sense. You were attempting to change the subject. We were talking about extremists. No extremists have as much power as Muslim extremists, and therefore none are as dangerous. I was never talking specifically about extremists, and even under the idea of extremists, neo-liberal extremists have done much worse over the world than the Muslim extremists. I don't even know how you can believe this.
Because controlling the IMF and other prominent international organizations and hijacking several South American countries, South Africa, and other various countries and shoving their laissez faire economics into these countries and stealing their public sectors with the help of militaristic counter-revolutionists has killed far more people in the past 60 years than Muslim extremists have in the past 60 years, and these neo-liberals have driven more people into poverty than these Muslim extremists as well.
But it's okay. You're an ignorant fool, and evidently spending my time replying to a you is a waste of my time. Even beyond your ideas you don't know how to read or reply properly anyway.
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On November 30 2009 09:13 MasterReY wrote:
i think its good. would muslime ever let us build churches in their countries? lol
If they dont accept other religions in countries where other religions are the majority then they dont deserver their religion too.
There are like 3-6 churches in Bahrain tho =[. Those extremists bitches are fucking up what true Islam is about, all of this shit about Islam suppressing women whatever thats all misunderstanding and its basically them making their own "Islam". Deep inside Islam is really a sensible religion, If you know where to go then you can really learn about it. But all this media, and retarded Saudi extremist and Suicide bombers ruins the essence of every fucking thing.
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On November 30 2009 09:14 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 08:41 Orome wrote:
I learned what it feels like to feel ashamed of your country today. =/ No need to beat yourself over it, governments are rarely 100% reflective of their population. Especially the youth portion.
Actually, every single citizen got to vote for or against this and 57% said yes (less than half voted though, but still). It's not a government decision, this decision is as democratic as it gets.
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On November 30 2009 09:19 Orome wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:14 KissBlade wrote:On November 30 2009 08:41 Orome wrote:
I learned what it feels like to feel ashamed of your country today. =/ No need to beat yourself over it, governments are rarely 100% reflective of their population. Especially the youth portion. Actually, every single citizen got to vote for or against this and 57% said yes (less than half voted though, but still). It's not a government decision, this decision is as democratic as it gets.
as you pointed out, it were about 1.5 million ppl voting yes from 7.7 million ppl living in switzerland.
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On November 30 2009 09:21 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:19 Orome wrote:On November 30 2009 09:14 KissBlade wrote:On November 30 2009 08:41 Orome wrote:
I learned what it feels like to feel ashamed of your country today. =/ No need to beat yourself over it, governments are rarely 100% reflective of their population. Especially the youth portion. Actually, every single citizen got to vote for or against this and 57% said yes (less than half voted though, but still). It's not a government decision, this decision is as democratic as it gets. as you pointed out, it were about 1.5 million ppl voting yes from 7.7 million ppl living in switzerland.
meaning 5million didnt give a shit about it, why the hell do we even have democracy? wtf
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On November 30 2009 09:18 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:12 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:09 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:06 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:02 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 08:59 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 08:58 koreasilver wrote:
How could anyone possibly think Muslim extremists have more power and influence than the Western world? Even if the Western powers are starting to lose grip of their absolute power over the world slowly, they still are, with no doubt, the greatest powers in the world still.
I mean, if these Muslim extremists had more power and influence than anyone else in the world, why would they have split and ran when America started the war? Guerrilla warfare and terrorism is practiced by the weaker side in asymmetrical warfare. The Western world is not run by religious extremists. That has nothing to do with what my post was about. You could have said, "but Muslims don't eat pork," and it would have made about the same amount of sense. You were attempting to change the subject. We were talking about extremists. No extremists have as much power as Muslim extremists, and therefore none are as dangerous. I was never talking specifically about extremists, and even under the idea of extremists, neo-liberal extremists have done much worse over the world than the Muslim extremists. I don't even know how you can believe this. Because controlling the IMF and other prominent international organizations and hijacking several South American countries, South Africa, and other various countries and shoving their laissez faire economics into these countries and stealing their public sectors with the help of militaristic counter-revolutionists has killed far more people in the past 60 years than Muslim extremists have in the past 60 years, and these neo-liberals have driven more people into poverty than these Muslim extremists as well. But it's okay. You're an ignorant fool, and evidently spending my time replying to a you is a waste of my time. Even beyond your ideas you don't know how to read or reply properly anyway.
Just... no.
Do some research on the history of the Middle East for the past 50 years and come back.
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On November 30 2009 08:23 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 08:22 ghostWriter wrote:On November 30 2009 08:17 JWD wrote:On November 30 2009 08:14 ghostWriter wrote:
I can see why they would be wary of Islamic influences. Where do you think the Paris riots came from? Ungrateful youth that should expend their time and energy on their education or a career, wasting their lives being mad at the establishment, which allows them to have protection, a home, etc. There's a big, hard to justify leap from being wary of influences and taking affirmative steps to eliminate them. If you immigrate to a different country, it's your job to assimilate into the existing culture. The Koran promotes violence in order for Islam to spread. Why wouldn't they eliminate threatening influences? Where in the Koran did it actually promote violence?
In places where a disturbingly large portion of muslims think that Jihad is a good idea.
Also the fact that death penalty for homosexuality, and stoning of women who've cheated on their husbands, still exist.
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here are the official endresults (not finished entirly)
http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/pore/va/20091129/det547.html
@superarc
yep, democracys suck, my words ;D
I dont give a fuck if 20% of a country tell me to not smoke weed or if it's 1 mean king.
(btw. those 1.5 millions I said earlier were just a guess, but its almost always that low, but to not spread bullshit I search for the actual results, looks like im a good guesser ;D)
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On November 30 2009 08:08 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 08:04 distant_voice wrote:On November 30 2009 08:02 Whiplash wrote:On November 30 2009 07:52 Foucault wrote:
I don't really see a reason to spread religion in the world to be honest. Islam to me is oppression and women being held down by ridiculous religious beliefs. Of course there are nice things to arabic culture, but Islam is not it I agree completely, and I think this is the consensus of most people in Switzerland. yeah, and Christianity is drinking blood, crusades, inquisitions and witch hunts. be more ignorant please. Islam still has honor killings, excuses for rape including blaming the victim, the death penalty for homosexuality, and no rights for women. How many of the Christian things you mentioned are still around?
you are a dumb motherfucker. like really, really dumb. None of that is true, you're completely ignorant. Do you live in a muslim country? Have you experienced the culture of one firsthand? no? then shut the fuck up
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On November 30 2009 09:23 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:18 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:12 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:09 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:06 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:02 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 08:59 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 08:58 koreasilver wrote:
How could anyone possibly think Muslim extremists have more power and influence than the Western world? Even if the Western powers are starting to lose grip of their absolute power over the world slowly, they still are, with no doubt, the greatest powers in the world still.
I mean, if these Muslim extremists had more power and influence than anyone else in the world, why would they have split and ran when America started the war? Guerrilla warfare and terrorism is practiced by the weaker side in asymmetrical warfare. The Western world is not run by religious extremists. That has nothing to do with what my post was about. You could have said, "but Muslims don't eat pork," and it would have made about the same amount of sense. You were attempting to change the subject. We were talking about extremists. No extremists have as much power as Muslim extremists, and therefore none are as dangerous. I was never talking specifically about extremists, and even under the idea of extremists, neo-liberal extremists have done much worse over the world than the Muslim extremists. I don't even know how you can believe this. Because controlling the IMF and other prominent international organizations and hijacking several South American countries, South Africa, and other various countries and shoving their laissez faire economics into these countries and stealing their public sectors with the help of militaristic counter-revolutionists has killed far more people in the past 60 years than Muslim extremists have in the past 60 years, and these neo-liberals have driven more people into poverty than these Muslim extremists as well. But it's okay. You're an ignorant fool, and evidently spending my time replying to a you is a waste of my time. Even beyond your ideas you don't know how to read or reply properly anyway. Just... no. Do some research on the history of the Middle East for the past 50 years and come back.
Do some research on your own country and come back.
Also, take a logic course.
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On November 30 2009 09:13 MasterReY wrote:
i think its good. would muslime ever let us build churches in their countries? lol
If they dont accept other religions in countries where other religions are the majority then they dont deserver their religion too.
Yes they would and do
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Well this thread is going to shit....
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On November 30 2009 09:23 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:18 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:12 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:09 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 09:06 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 09:02 koreasilver wrote:On November 30 2009 08:59 jalstar wrote:On November 30 2009 08:58 koreasilver wrote:
How could anyone possibly think Muslim extremists have more power and influence than the Western world? Even if the Western powers are starting to lose grip of their absolute power over the world slowly, they still are, with no doubt, the greatest powers in the world still.
I mean, if these Muslim extremists had more power and influence than anyone else in the world, why would they have split and ran when America started the war? Guerrilla warfare and terrorism is practiced by the weaker side in asymmetrical warfare. The Western world is not run by religious extremists. That has nothing to do with what my post was about. You could have said, "but Muslims don't eat pork," and it would have made about the same amount of sense. You were attempting to change the subject. We were talking about extremists. No extremists have as much power as Muslim extremists, and therefore none are as dangerous. I was never talking specifically about extremists, and even under the idea of extremists, neo-liberal extremists have done much worse over the world than the Muslim extremists. I don't even know how you can believe this. Because controlling the IMF and other prominent international organizations and hijacking several South American countries, South Africa, and other various countries and shoving their laissez faire economics into these countries and stealing their public sectors with the help of militaristic counter-revolutionists has killed far more people in the past 60 years than Muslim extremists have in the past 60 years, and these neo-liberals have driven more people into poverty than these Muslim extremists as well. But it's okay. You're an ignorant fool, and evidently spending my time replying to a you is a waste of my time. Even beyond your ideas you don't know how to read or reply properly anyway. Just... no. Do some research on the history of the Middle East for the past 50 years and come back.
Atomic bomb. Don't come back.
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On November 30 2009 08:24 Yizuo wrote:
IMO this ban is pure bullshit, the people are blinded by fear of different cultures and religions. "The free western world" should always uphold their values of open-mindedness and tolerance, the decision made by the swiss people is a step in the wrong direction.
imo, this is bullshit because Islam isn't known to be a very open-minded religion. Why should we go about promoting islam for the sake of being politically correct when instead we should promote ideas that are actually good for people. Women wearing burkas and hardly having any rights is not something I want to push for.
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On November 30 2009 09:22 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2009 09:21 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:On November 30 2009 09:19 Orome wrote:On November 30 2009 09:14 KissBlade wrote:On November 30 2009 08:41 Orome wrote:
I learned what it feels like to feel ashamed of your country today. =/ No need to beat yourself over it, governments are rarely 100% reflective of their population. Especially the youth portion. Actually, every single citizen got to vote for or against this and 57% said yes (less than half voted though, but still). It's not a government decision, this decision is as democratic as it gets. as you pointed out, it were about 1.5 million ppl voting yes from 7.7 million ppl living in switzerland. meaning 5million didnt give a shit about it, why the hell do we even have democracy? wtf
No, read his post again, 1.5 million voted yes, a slightly smaller number voted no, many of the 7.7 million are under 18 and not allowed to vote.
All in all 49% of people who are allowed to vote, voted.
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EPT
