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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On December 02 2009 09:53 axel wrote: What do you think that will happens if some christians want to build a church in saudi arabia or iran? ahaha hmm, I wonder + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Vank_Cathedral%2C_Armenian_Quarter%2C_Esfahan%2C_Iran.jpg) | ||
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keepITup
251 Posts
On December 02 2009 10:03 Biff The Understudy wrote: What I have to understand is that USA or Switzerland are not more tolerant than Iran and Arabia Saudia. You think what? That there are no fucking church in Marocco, Algeria, Liban? There is a mosque next to my place in Paris. The muezzin calls people to pray, and people pray. I think that's great, and I am happy for muslim of my country to have a beautiful place to do their religious stuff, and not some sad basement somewhere. I like Switzerland but I am ashamed for them. People are scared. Being scared by people different has a name. It's called xenophobia. whether it's right or wrong i have to give props to the swiss for having the balls to do that. as you said, it's not good for their image -- but if they don't want something in their country, then they'll get rid of it. i like that. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7971 Posts
On December 02 2009 10:10 keepITup wrote: whether it's right or wrong i have to give props to the swiss for having the balls to do that. as you said, it's not good for their image -- but if they don't want something in their country, then they'll get rid of it. i like that. Yeah, that's a bit like nazis with the jews. They had balls... Another retarded comment, like that? | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On December 02 2009 10:10 keepITup wrote: whether it's right or wrong i have to give props to the swiss for having the balls to do that. as you said, it's not good for their image -- but if they don't want something in their country, then they'll get rid of it. i like that. yeah, yay for the tyranny of the majority | ||
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keepITup
251 Posts
On December 02 2009 10:12 Biff The Understudy wrote: Yeah, that's a bit like nazis with the jews. They had balls... Another retarded comment, like that? lol i'd hardly compare this to genocide, but hey whatever. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7971 Posts
On December 02 2009 10:13 keepITup wrote: lol i'd hardly compare this to genocide, but hey whatever. If voting a xenophobic law is having balls, then nazi had huge huge balls. You fail. | ||
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eMbrace
United States1300 Posts
On December 02 2009 10:17 Biff The Understudy wrote: If voting a xenophobic law is having balls, then nazi had huge huge balls. You fail. Not to take sides or anything -- but your analogy is terrible. From what I've read, the Swiss are 85% atheist -- so why wouldn't they want to oppress something they feel is bullshit, and is a private matter anyways. It's nice to see someone take a stand in a world that's so afraid to offend anything or anyone. It's a belief system, not a people that's being oppressed. Stop comparing everything to Hitler. | ||
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Licmyobelisk
Philippines3682 Posts
I still think that it's better to be spiritual than being religious (for me being spiritual doesn't necessarily need to practice some stuff about your religion, just do some good things and pray/meditate that should be fine) Religion isn't that bad, it's just some are still clinging to old 16th century understanding of how the bible works. Like for example, the bible verse in ghostwriter's post.. that's a lot of LMAO's in that bible verse but as a someone who believes in God, why the hell listen to the Old Testament, it's only for entertain purposes for me.. I would still rather go for experiences in life rather than listen to a book. Still, I would say that there are really crazy ass people there (both muslim, christian and anyone even atheist) that are being exploited for what they believed in, even some atheist have closed their minds due to the fact they hate religion so much. Wow, never knew that I posted a topic about religion and it's shit. okay, to give you guys an example, I saw an article that praying/meditating/yoga increases brain power (as Foucault said, a lot of secular humanist have became depressed because I think they aren't meditating enough) http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/science/2009/august/Praying-May-Increase-Brain-Power-.html And let me point out again, Minarets are so cool in Assasin's Creed: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/AssassinsCreed_Leap_of_Faith.png) | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7971 Posts
On December 02 2009 10:23 eMbrace wrote: Not to take sides or anything -- but your analogy is terrible. From what I've read, the Swiss are 85% atheist -- so why wouldn't they want to oppress something they feel is bullshit, and is a private matter anyways. It's nice to see someone take a stand in a world that's so afraid to offend anything or anyone. It's a belief system, not a people that's being oppressed. Stop comparing everything to Hitler. I never compared anything with Hitler. I just point out the weakness of his logic, by appying it to an undefendable case. Now to answer your question: ever heard about tolerance? I am very atheist, and very happy if people are religious and happy to be so. And then: if it's about atheism, why didn't they banned churchs? Let stop being hypocritical. The only one who supported this law in Swiss politics are the populist extreme right. People are scared by islam. That doesn't go any further. | ||
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Hinanawi
United States2250 Posts
On December 02 2009 10:28 Biff The Understudy wrote: People are scared by islam. For good reason. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7971 Posts
I don't think christian fundamentalists are less crazy nor dangerous than muslim fundamentalists. So should we start being scared by Christianity? Ok they are on "our side". But really. Have you heard about Jesus camps? Theses guys are at least as fucked up as Ben Laden and his good friends. Don't get me wrong: I don't particularly like Islam, as I don't like Christianity nor any religion. But the ennemy is fundamentalism, not Islam (well, and if you read Slavoj Zizek, you realize that fundamentalism is a product of the disparition of secular left, but that's another discussion). There is no reason to be scared by anything. 99% of muslim are peaceful people, who have their beliefs, and what's wrong with that? It's not a great news that people start mixing everything and listen to extreme right discourse. That won't lead us anywhere good. Fear leads to disasters. It may be time to learn it. | ||
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eMbrace
United States1300 Posts
On December 02 2009 10:28 Biff The Understudy wrote: I never compared anything with Hitler. I just point out the weakness of his logic, by appying it to an undefendable case. Now to answer your question: ever heard about tolerance? I am very atheist, and very happy if people are religious and happy to be so. And then: if it's about atheism, why didn't they banned churchs? Let stop being hypocritical. The only one who supported this law in Swiss politics are the populist extreme right. People are scared by islam. That doesn't go any further. With the all the events happening in today's world, I can understand why they would be afraid of Islam. Is it practical to think all Islamics are radical? Of course not, but all someone needs to hear is a few horror stories to fear something. Kind of like how people are afraid to let their kids go to a house with a gun in it, when there is a infinitely higher chance of drowning in the swimming pool there. That being said, this really isn't all that bad. It's just a belief. Having no minarets isn't going to hurt anyone, and if it does the swiss really don't care -- it's just a religion. I don't really care what they decide on either. People just love to get all preachy about "freedom" when another country has a different way of going about things. The Nazis had a different way of going about things, sure. They also started a war because of it. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On December 02 2009 10:23 eMbrace wrote: Not to take sides or anything -- but your analogy is terrible. From what I've read, the Swiss are 85% atheist -- so why wouldn't they want to oppress something they feel is bullshit, and is a private matter anyways. It's nice to see someone take a stand in a world that's so afraid to offend anything or anyone. It's a belief system, not a people that's being oppressed. Stop comparing everything to Hitler. It wouldn't matter if 99% of them are atheist. Tyranny of the majority isn't justifiable, EVER, and trying to justify it just makes you a straight up horrible person. I'm atheist and I think this is unbelievably ridiculous. The Bible has just as many ridiculous sayings in them that promote intolerance, ignorance, and violence as any other religion, yet people don't take them literally and plenty of Christians aren't crazy nutjobs who will do horrible things in their God's name. The same goes for Islam. There is absolutely no excuse for this and the Swiss should feel ashamed. Oh, and his analogy works perfectly fine. How do you think the Nazis started their anti-Jewish campaign? They didn't jump straight into the ovens and gas chambers, it was a process... | ||
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eMbrace
United States1300 Posts
On December 02 2009 10:40 Stratos_speAr wrote: It wouldn't matter if 99% of them are atheist. Tyranny of the majority isn't justifiable, EVER, and trying to justify it just makes you a straight up horrible person. I'm atheist and I think this is unbelievably ridiculous. The Bible has just as many ridiculous sayings in them that promote intolerance, ignorance, and violence as any other religion, yet people don't take them literally and plenty of Christians aren't crazy nutjobs who will do horrible things in their God's name. The same goes for Islam. There is absolutely no excuse for this and the Swiss should feel ashamed. Oh, and his analogy works perfectly fine. How do you think the Nazis started their anti-Jewish campaign? They didn't jump straight into the ovens and gas chambers, it was a process... I never said I agreed with their decision -- just that it's nice to see a different attitude towards the spread of religion. | ||
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Hinanawi
United States2250 Posts
On December 02 2009 10:37 Biff The Understudy wrote: I don't think christian fundamentalists are less crazy nor dangerous than muslim fundamentalists. Are you serious? Look, I'm an atheist, but this is silly, you know that's a lie. Christian fundamentalists tell me I'm going to hell and give me dirty looks. Muslim fundamentalists want to kill me. There is no comparison. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On December 02 2009 10:48 Hinanawi wrote: Are you serious? Look, I'm an atheist, but this is silly, you know that's a lie. Christian fundamentalists tell me I'm going to hell and give me dirty looks. Muslim fundamentalists want to kill me. There is no comparison. Have you never heard of the religious hate between the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, the KKK, and the Christian anti-abortion violence in America, Canada, and elsewhere? I'm only stating recent events here. | ||
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MamiyaOtaru
United States1687 Posts
On December 02 2009 10:40 Stratos_speAr wrote: It wouldn't matter if 99% of them are atheist. Tyranny of the majority isn't justifiable, EVER, and trying to justify it just makes you a straight up horrible person. I'm atheist and I think this is unbelievably ridiculous. The Bible has just as many ridiculous sayings in them that promote intolerance, ignorance, and violence as any other religion, yet people don't take them literally and plenty of Christians aren't crazy nutjobs who will do horrible things in their God's name. The same goes for Islam. There is absolutely no excuse for this and the Swiss should feel ashamed. Oh, and his analogy works perfectly fine. How do you think the Nazis started their anti-Jewish campaign? They didn't jump straight into the ovens and gas chambers, it was a process... Your country (and mine) was founded with principles of religious freedom, and separation of church and state. Other countries were not. You are judging Switzerland for not being like us. Well screw off with that. It's their country. It pisses me off when Euros meddle in our politics, so I'm sure as hell not going to turn around and do it to any of them. I don't see people in here bitching about Saudi Arabia and their "tolerance". Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Switzerland is justified because someone else did it. More like we don't mess with the Saudis, and we shouldn't mess with the Swiss. Obviously we can argue whether or not we think what they did is wrong or justified or whatever, but it's their country and if they don't feel like coddling every religious group they don't have to. | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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FragKrag
United States11556 Posts
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s_side
United States700 Posts
On December 02 2009 10:37 Biff The Understudy wrote: I don't think christian fundamentalists are less crazy nor dangerous than muslim fundamentalists. So should we start being scared by Christianity? Ok they are on "our side". But really. Have you heard about Jesus camps? Theses guys are at least as fucked up as Ben Laden and his good friends. Don't get me wrong: I don't particularly like Islam, as I don't like Christianity nor any religion. But the ennemy is fundamentalism, not Islam (well, and if you read Slavoj Zizek, you realize that fundamentalism is a product of the disparition of secular left, but that's another discussion). There is no reason to be scared by anything. 99% of muslim are peaceful people, who have their beliefs, and what's wrong with that? It's not a great news that people start mixing everything and listen to extreme right discourse. That won't lead us anywhere good. Fear leads to disasters. It may be time to learn it. There is no reasonable way to quantify "crazy," but it is extremely intellectually dishonest to claim that today's Christian fundamentalists are as dangerous as Islamic ones. In fact, as someone who lost more than one friend in the attacks of 9/11, I'd say that such a claim is downright offensive. Would you care to post some numbers for us to back up your claim? How many civilians have Christian extremists killed in the last decade? How many Christian theocracies exist on earth? How many people have those theocracies killed, mutilated or imprisoned for exercising their basic human rights? Islam fundamentalism is without question something to be scared of. It is a violent, expansionist ideology, which is diametrically opposed to the existence of many human rights that have finally been embraced by those in the Western world. It's both tragic and illogical for you to dismiss criticism of such a problematic and harmful system of belief as "extreme right discourse." Am I a horribly old fashioned conservative because I believe that women shouldn't be treated as second class citizens or legally beaten by their spouses? If so, I apologize for believing that our mothers, sisters, wives and girlfriends deserve better. Regardless of whether or not you want to bury your head in the sand, there will always be people who oppose Islamic fundamentalism openly and without caring whether or not their views will be perceived as appropriately politically correct. | ||
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