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Aren't you the one that has been harassing me for the past three days? You've done very little to actually reply to anything I've been saying with any kind of substance for two days now, and you jump on me when I become tired of you to the point of not being bothered to actually explain my opinions against your idiocy.
Are you still trying to attempt damage control on your colossal mishap early on this thread? Good heavens.
On December 02 2009 06:06 QibingZero wrote:Of course religion and science are incompatible. If you hold any beliefs preventing you from considering any possibility you might find in your experimentation, you are not practicing science. If you are at all cherry-picking facts, you aren't practicing science. All of the great 'scientists' we mention - the ones that were religious by and large - were very much held back by their beliefs more than anything. Imagine what they could have accomplished if they did not have the barriers of stigma to fight against (both in society and in their own minds). Show nested quote +On December 01 2009 19:41 Foucault wrote:
Pyro, yeah religious people are often viewed like a bit weird here. At the same time we have one of the highest rates of depression in Europe, which may or may not have something to do with us being a secularized country and lacking the comfort from religion.
Removing god is not always positive for people's well-being, although it's the rational thing to do. I believe you have to take into account the factors of seasonal depression into this, since Sweden is at a higher latitude than much of Europe (and is not Iceland, which seems to be nearly immune to such problems). While religion does 'comfort' a lot of people, non-religion is really only a scary thought if you actually consider religion plausible in the first place. Show nested quote +On December 02 2009 05:46 starfries wrote:
To be honest I'm not actually religious myself, but I do have respect for those who are. Especially Muslims, because it takes serious dedication to stop what you're doing and pray five times a day. Hell, I don't study physics five times a day.. if my university told me I had to get up at 5:30 in the morning every day and fast for a month and all that other stuff, I'd probably say "screw physics" and be on my way to bible college. This argument is really disingenuous. If you truly believe (or were brought up being told) that there was an afterlife and your life should be led in the best possible fashion in order to please your god, you would pray five times a day as well. This isn't really dedication like studying something five times a day would be - there are great personal stakes involved here. If you give up studying at that particular university because it's too difficult, you have alternatives to still lead a happy life. If they give up praying, they will ruin their chances at a good afterlife (and often their place in society). That is, unless they give up their beliefs altogether, which is probably more difficult to them than the rituals are in the first place.
The thing is, not all areas of science contradict some religions though. Lets use a devout Roman Catholic as an example. This man or woman wouldn't have any religious beliefs that would hold them back from studying and learning chemistry, physics, medical sciences, or astronomy without preconceptions. I mean, even in biology Catholicism works with evolution; the only real issue being the origin of life. There are some very obvious areas where some religions have no choice but to clash with science, but there are so many more areas where a religious man will have little to no qualms with science.
edit: You're posting PMs now? Are you serious? That PM has nothing to do with me but how in the world do you think you have the right to post PMs that someone else sent to you in public when you're the lunatic that has been raging at me for three fucking days over PMs with the most inane bullshit I've ever had the pleasure of reading since I made my account on this forum.
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Way to go Switzerland.. I seriously don't see any offending by controling what they want and what not in their country. Muslims are moving in huge numbers to Europe and GB already had a big issue with them and Swiss just don't want to end up like that. Basically they are saying you can come here and will be respected as everyone, but you are not building any of your bullshit religion building here, got it ? I think Switzerland wants to show them that they don't want them in the country at all but doing it in the most harmless way. Good job i must say...
And to the whole religion thing, i think that many countries in Europe are not mostly christian. Here in Czech i have met very few christian people my whole life. (i mean daily life like school, work, friends e.t.c.). And byt he way the whole christianity in the USA is such a joke i have to laugh...When the president says "God bless America" ...wow, really just wow. I don't have anything against US (for some of you that always want to fight)..i just mean that religion is ridiculous and through the history, it was always used to control people and even brainwash them that much, that they were hostile to people with other religion and fought over that.
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Oh you were explaining? Excuse me, I was unaware. If you want substance in a reply, try having substance in your posts first:
"His point was that religion and science are incompatible, which is nonsense."
OH SO THAT'S WHERE MY LOGIC FAILED! OH everything makes sense now, thanks so much for the well-thought out and beautifully articulated explanation!
"damage control" haha you're a joke. Even if I had a fact wrong, it's a simple matter of reeducating myself to the facts and making a mistake doesn't detract from my intelligence, it would merely mean that I was either misinformed or that I misinterpreted. Also, that unrelated point that you brought up has nothing to do with the original topic, which is a point that I seem to have to continually repeat. Yet you insist on bringing random, unrelated topics up in the thread. People who are fervert believers in a religion cannot change their mind in the face of overwhelming evidence and insist that God is the creator and center of everything and that heathens will go to hell or whatever bullshit they believe in without any kind of empirical evidence. "colosal mishap" indeed.
But in any case:
"The thing is, not all areas of science contradict some religions though. Lets use a devout Roman Catholic as an example. This man or woman wouldn't have any religious beliefs that would hold them back from studying and learning chemistry, physics, medical sciences, or astronomy without preconceptions. I mean, even in biology Catholicism works with evolution; the only real issue being the origin of life. There are some very obvious areas where some religions have no choice but to clash with science, but there are so many more areas where a religious man will have little to no qualms with science"
Oh great explanation! I guess God personally creating everything, including Adam and Eve personally doesn't conflict with the theory of evolution at all! So many areas where a religious man has little or no qualms with science, and yet you can only name one which wasn't even correct. Masterfully done, I'm totally convinced. Here's an example: the Catholic Church persecuted Galileo for teaching that the Earth wasn't the center of the universe, despite the fact that nowhere in the bible does it say that it is. Thanks church for punishing a genius that was only trying to improve human knowledge against your ignorant teachings!
Look at this awesome story from the Bible:
+ Show Spoiler +22 While they were making merry, and refreshing their bodies with meat and drink, after the labour of the journey, the men of that city, sons of Belial, (that is, without yoke,) came and beset the old man's house, and began to knock at the door, calling to the master of the house, and saying: Bring forth the man that came into thy house, that we may abuse him. 23 And the old man went out to them, and said: Do not so, my brethren, do not so wickedly: because this man is come into my lodging, and cease I pray you from this folly. 24 I have a maiden daughter, and this man hath a concubine, I will bring them out to you, and you may humble them, and satisfy your lust: only, I beseech you, commit not this crime against nature on the man. 25 They would not be satisfied with his words; which the man seeing, brought out his concubine to them, and abandoned her to their wickedness: and when they had abused her all the night, they let her go in the morning.
26 But the woman, at the dawning of the day, came to the door of the house where her lord lodged, and there fell down. 27 And in the morning the man arose, and opened the door that he might end the journey he had begun: and behold his concubine lay before the door with her hands spread on the threshold. 28 He thinking she was taking her rest, said to her: Arise, and let us be going. But as she made no answer, perceiving she was dead, he took her up, and laid her upon his ass, and returned to his house. 29 And when he was come home he took a sword, and divided the dead body of his wife with her bones into twelve parts, and sent the pieces into all the borders of Israel. 30 And when every one had seen this, they all cried out: There was never such a thing done in Israel from the day that our fathers came up out of Egypt, until this day: give sentence, and decree in common what ought to be done.
Oh I guess gay sex is wrong, but giving up your daughter and the man's concubine to be raped is totally fine! Oh and then as a kicker, he just decides to cut her into 12 pieces and spread her body throughout Israel. I sure learned a lot, I can see why the Bible is so cherished as a holy book. Now I know what to do when people want to have buttsex with my guest. I guess religion is a good thing, I can't see any reason why we should abandon such a godsend.
edit: it's only been like twelve hours, I don't see how you can bring it to three days but I guess if God can create the entire universe in a week, anything is possible. Nor do I "rage". I could easily type out responses to you in this thread, but as you can see, it only brings the thread farther and farther away from the original topic, which you seem to have continually been unaware of from the very beginning. It would also turn the topic into a shitfilled flamefest which is unnecessary and undesirable, since I want to keep debating people with different views are explained rationally and actually relate to Switzerland and minarets. Posting the PM was fine in my view since it's anonymous and I didn't post it with malicious intent, I was merely using it to back up my arguments with evidence, which you seem to be unable to do. I apologize for being unable to reciprocate and say that reading anything you've written has been pleasurable at all.
And please don't just throw around accusations of idiocy when your claim is undoubtedly hypocritical, to say the least.
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Oh you were explaining? Excuse me, I was unaware. If you want substance in a reply, try having substance in your posts first:
"His point was that religion and science are incompatible, which is nonsense."
OH SO THAT'S WHERE MY LOGIC FAILED! OH everything makes sense now, thanks so much for the well-thought out and beautifully articulated explanation!
Read my post again.
Even if I had a fact wrong, it's a simple matter of reeducating myself and it doesn't detract from my intelligence. People who are fervert believers in a religion cannot do this and insist that God is the creator and center of everything and that heathens will go to hell or whatever bullshit they believe in without any kind of empirical evidence.
So all religious individuals have lesser intellect simply due to them having religious beliefs. I don't think I even need to touch upon this one.
Oh great explanation! I guess God personally creating everything, including Adam and Eve personally doesn't conflict with the theory of evolution at all!
It doesn't conflict with the theory of evolution at all, as evolution can take place you know, after they were created. There is nothing within the Christian texts that suggest anything against the theory of evolution. Again, the issue is about the origin of life, not evolution.
Here's an example: the Catholic Church persecuted Galileo for teaching that the Earth wasn't the center of the universe, despite the fact that nowhere in the bible does it say that it is. Thanks church for punishing a genius that was only trying to improve human knowledge against your ignorant teachings!
Those days are long gone, and the Vatican has publicly apologized for that incident very explicitly. Every institution makes mistakes, and if you're going to use historical examples as to a religion being detrimental towards science, you shouldn't be ignoring how secular political and scientific groups have been detrimental to science in the past and even today; a very recent and public example being the drug controversy in Britain.
Oh I guess gay sex is wrong, but giving up your daughter and the man's concubine to be raped is totally fine! Oh and then as a kicker, he just decides to cut her into 12 pieces and spread her body throughout Israel. I sure learned a lot, I can see why the Bible is so cherished as a holy book. Now I know what to do when people want to have buttsex with my guest.
The woman was killed, and he divided her body into 12 pieces to spread the word of the atrocity that has occurred. His guest was about to get raped and he was trying to protect him - giving up the women to be raped instead is pretty stupid but regardless, what does this have to do with religion and science not being compatible again?
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it's only been like twelve hours
First PM: 11/30 10:40
Your last PM: 12/2 03:00
I dunno about you but that's three days.
Nor do I "rage". I could easily type out responses to you in this thread, but as you can see, it only brings the thread farther and farther away from the original topic, which you seem to have continually been unaware of from the very beginning.
I'm not going to post any excerpts from the PM so I won't show any proof but lol.
Also, you were the one that initiated the straying from the original topic.
Posting the PM was fine in my view since it's anonymous and I didn't post it with malicious intent, I was merely using it to back up my arguments with evidence, which you seem to be unable to do.
You posted that PM simply to ridicule the fellow, and apparently the angry rantings of a single Christian is evidence that religions as a whole are incompatible with science? What? You have consistently only been providing excerpts from the Torah in your arguments when you constantly belittle religion as a whole.
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On December 02 2009 06:06 QibingZero wrote:Of course religion and science are incompatible. If you hold any beliefs preventing you from considering any possibility you might find in your experimentation, you are not practicing science. If you are at all cherry-picking facts, you aren't practicing science. All of the great 'scientists' we mention - the ones that were religious by and large - were very much held back by their beliefs more than anything. Imagine what they could have accomplished if they did not have the barriers of stigma to fight against (both in society and in their own minds). Show nested quote +On December 02 2009 05:46 starfries wrote:
To be honest I'm not actually religious myself, but I do have respect for those who are. Especially Muslims, because it takes serious dedication to stop what you're doing and pray five times a day. Hell, I don't study physics five times a day.. if my university told me I had to get up at 5:30 in the morning every day and fast for a month and all that other stuff, I'd probably say "screw physics" and be on my way to bible college. This argument is really disingenuous. If you truly believe (or were brought up being told) that there was an afterlife and your life should be led in the best possible fashion in order to please your god, you would pray five times a day as well. This isn't really dedication like studying something five times a day would be - there are great personal stakes involved here. If you give up studying at that particular university because it's too difficult, you have alternatives to still lead a happy life. If they give up praying, they will ruin their chances at a good afterlife (and often their place in society). That is, unless they give up their beliefs altogether, which is probably more difficult to them than the rituals are in the first place.
Fair enough, it was a slightly facetious analogy.
I think many great scientists, while not religious, are fairly spiritual. There's something about trying to figure out how the universe works that makes you realize it's pretty damn amazing how everything fits together. And most scientists have a pretty deep faith that it DOES fit together somehow, even the parts we don't understand yet, and that it makes sense on some barely comprehensible level.
A lot of my religious friends share this sort of view. Of course there are also those people who are just in it for the virgin houris or because they fear death, or who want some supernatural help on their side. But I think most religions are also about how incredible the world is, and why. Science is no different there.
The real problem I have with religion is that logical leap from "hey this place is pretty cool" to "someone must have created it, and he's probably still around" to "I bet that guy we nailed to a plank two thousand years ago was his son!".
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On December 01 2009 18:37 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2009 16:31 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
War is a continuation of policy by other means - Carl Von Clausewitz As usual with quotes by great people, this one is continuously misunderstood and misused. Maybe you should read Vom Kriege first before applying his quote to support your point. Which it doesn't do at all in this case.
I'm in the process of reading his book right now and I believe it fits quite well in the context I used it.
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Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
Hey kids (ghostwriter/koreasilver), chill a little, k?
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I think this discussion is just going crazy. This is NOT about wiether or not religion is good or bad. A lot of people are religious and that's the way it is. Shouldn't they be allowed to practice it? I mean obviously laws and rules should be the same for everyone living in the country but people should be allowed to believe in and think whatever the want to. You can't have a rule that says you're free to have you're own ideas and oppinions as long as they're not too crazy :p.
Then again if the majority wants to ban minarets they should obviously do it. Just sad that they are so intolerant 
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While I don't want to jump into your flamewar, I have to agree that religious beliefs effect the capability of a person to do science very very little. While it can be said that it effects it somewhat in very limited areas, it doesn't effect the ability of a person to make a guided inquiry or their ability for intellectual thought.
Also the assumption that being religious = being unintelligent is a fallacy. A person raised in ignorance will obviously not know better than what they were taught, and if they cling to their beliefs that just makes them stubborn, not stupid.
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On December 02 2009 09:00 ghermination wrote:
While I don't want to jump into your flamewar, I have to agree that religious beliefs effect the capability of a person to do science very very little. While it can be said that it effects it somewhat in very limited areas, it doesn't effect the ability of a person to make a guided inquiry or their ability for intellectual thought.
Also the assumption that being religious = being unintelligent is a fallacy. A person raised in ignorance will obviously not know better than what they were taught, and if they cling to their beliefs that just makes them stubborn, not stupid.
I think you meant affect when you said effect.
Well I guess being religious doesn't mean you are unintelligent, but you sure are accepting of unfounded beliefs. I guess religion = being not analytical or not curious. You're totally right, but that's why religion is so harmful. Even smart people can get entrapped in false modes of "thinking" and have ideas firmly implanted in their heads before they are old enough to critically analyze what they are being told.
There's nothing lazier than calling everything God's creation without considering why things are there and why phenomena are the way they are.
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On December 02 2009 09:07 ghostWriter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2009 09:00 ghermination wrote:
While I don't want to jump into your flamewar, I have to agree that religious beliefs effect the capability of a person to do science very very little. While it can be said that it effects it somewhat in very limited areas, it doesn't effect the ability of a person to make a guided inquiry or their ability for intellectual thought.
Also the assumption that being religious = being unintelligent is a fallacy. A person raised in ignorance will obviously not know better than what they were taught, and if they cling to their beliefs that just makes them stubborn, not stupid. I think you meant affect when you said effect. Well I guess being religious doesn't mean you are unintelligent, but you sure are accepting of unfounded beliefs. I guess religion = being not analytical or not curious. You're totally right, but that's why religion is so harmful. Even smart people can get entrapped in false modes of "thinking" and have ideas firmly implanted in their heads before they are old enough to critically analyze what they are being told. There's nothing lazier than calling everything God's creation without considering why things are there and why phenomena are the way they are.
it's really more about how you are raised rather than being spiritual.
When you are brought into an environment where you are led to believe in things like santa clause or the tooth fairy and eventually find out they are just fun little stories -- the fact that your parents are still very serious about religion in comparison really engraves the significance of it into your head.
when you grow up and find that your parents tease about such fairy tales but then go to church to worship a god -- well, god most definitely must be real if all the adults are so serious about him.
i grew up protestant like this, and as I grew older I kept questioning my religion in my head, but I felt guilty and shunned out the thoughts because I was honestly afraid that god would think I was losing faith. so when anyone asked, "you believe in god, right?" i'd answer immediately, "yeah, of course!"
during highschool I came upon material about questioning the existence of god and I then concluded that if I didn't believe in god in my head, then god would know -- despite what comes out of my mouth or whether i go to church or not.
so i stopped practicing religion, because I was clearly lying to myself about what I believed.
but I can totally understand why smart people are so stubborn with their beliefs -- it's like being raised as a fan for a sports team, you just don't change loyalty no matter how much your team sucks.
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On December 02 2009 09:20 keepITup wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2009 09:07 ghostWriter wrote:On December 02 2009 09:00 ghermination wrote:
While I don't want to jump into your flamewar, I have to agree that religious beliefs effect the capability of a person to do science very very little. While it can be said that it effects it somewhat in very limited areas, it doesn't effect the ability of a person to make a guided inquiry or their ability for intellectual thought.
Also the assumption that being religious = being unintelligent is a fallacy. A person raised in ignorance will obviously not know better than what they were taught, and if they cling to their beliefs that just makes them stubborn, not stupid. I think you meant affect when you said effect. Well I guess being religious doesn't mean you are unintelligent, but you sure are accepting of unfounded beliefs. I guess religion = being not analytical or not curious. You're totally right, but that's why religion is so harmful. Even smart people can get entrapped in false modes of "thinking" and have ideas firmly implanted in their heads before they are old enough to critically analyze what they are being told. There's nothing lazier than calling everything God's creation without considering why things are there and why phenomena are the way they are. it's really more about how you are raised rather than being spiritual. When you are brought into an environment where you are led to believe in things like santa clause or the tooth fairy and eventually find out they are just fun little stories -- the fact that your parents are still very serious about religion in comparison really engraves the significance of it into your head. when you grow up and find that your parents tease about such fairy tales but then go to church to worship a god -- well, god most definitely must be real if all the adults are so serious about him. i grew up protestant like this, and as I grew older I kept questioning my religion in my head, but I felt guilty and shunned out the thoughts because I was honestly afraid that god would think I was losing faith. so when anyone asked, "you believe in god, right?" i'd answer immediately, "yeah, of course!" during highschool I came upon material about questioning the existence of god and I then concluded that if I didn't believe in god in my head, then god would know -- despite what comes out of my mouth or whether i go to church or not. so i stopped practicing religion, because I was clearly lying to myself about what I believed. but I can totally understand why smart people are so stubborn with their beliefs -- it's like being raised as a fan for a sports team, you just don't change loyalty no matter how much your team sucks.
Well it's a bit different, that's loyalty to your team through thick and thin. Some people keep supporting their teams even if they are perennial underdogs, rather than bandwagon onto the new big thing.
That's pretty much what happened to me. When I actually took the time to think about my beliefs, I realized that none of the facts stuck and that I shouldn't be overwhelmed by the supposed miracles that this god character claims to have done without any evidence. This is especially true with the laughable impossibility of most of these fairy tales, like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abedneg being able to chat while in a fire with a person that wasn't put there to begin with that just happened to look like a god. It's nothing more than an interesting story, on par with Harry Potter. Should I start hoping that my children will get a letter delivered by an owl when they turn ten so that they can get accepted to Hogwarts, just because I read about it in a book? In any case, it's hard to get rid of beliefs that were implanted in you when you were young, but if you give even a little thought to it, many religious claims come out to be nothing more than misrepresentations at best and outright lies at worst. The only reason to believe in God is that they claim that you will go to heaven if you do and you will go to hell if you won't, but there is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of such places as well. I didn't exist before I was born and like it or not, I won't exist after I die. No amount of wishful thinking will change my mind, unless I am given overwhelming empirical evidence, although religious types haven't been able to give even a modicum of evidence for their wild, fanciful claims.
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On December 02 2009 09:23 ghostWriter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2009 09:20 keepITup wrote:On December 02 2009 09:07 ghostWriter wrote:On December 02 2009 09:00 ghermination wrote:
While I don't want to jump into your flamewar, I have to agree that religious beliefs effect the capability of a person to do science very very little. While it can be said that it effects it somewhat in very limited areas, it doesn't effect the ability of a person to make a guided inquiry or their ability for intellectual thought.
Also the assumption that being religious = being unintelligent is a fallacy. A person raised in ignorance will obviously not know better than what they were taught, and if they cling to their beliefs that just makes them stubborn, not stupid. I think you meant affect when you said effect. Well I guess being religious doesn't mean you are unintelligent, but you sure are accepting of unfounded beliefs. I guess religion = being not analytical or not curious. You're totally right, but that's why religion is so harmful. Even smart people can get entrapped in false modes of "thinking" and have ideas firmly implanted in their heads before they are old enough to critically analyze what they are being told. There's nothing lazier than calling everything God's creation without considering why things are there and why phenomena are the way they are. it's really more about how you are raised rather than being spiritual. When you are brought into an environment where you are led to believe in things like santa clause or the tooth fairy and eventually find out they are just fun little stories -- the fact that your parents are still very serious about religion in comparison really engraves the significance of it into your head. when you grow up and find that your parents tease about such fairy tales but then go to church to worship a god -- well, god most definitely must be real if all the adults are so serious about him. i grew up protestant like this, and as I grew older I kept questioning my religion in my head, but I felt guilty and shunned out the thoughts because I was honestly afraid that god would think I was losing faith. so when anyone asked, "you believe in god, right?" i'd answer immediately, "yeah, of course!" during highschool I came upon material about questioning the existence of god and I then concluded that if I didn't believe in god in my head, then god would know -- despite what comes out of my mouth or whether i go to church or not. so i stopped practicing religion, because I was clearly lying to myself about what I believed. but I can totally understand why smart people are so stubborn with their beliefs -- it's like being raised as a fan for a sports team, you just don't change loyalty no matter how much your team sucks. Well it's a bit different, that's loyalty to your team through thick and thin. Some people keep supporting their teams even if they are perennial underdogs, rather than bandwagon onto the new big thing. That's pretty much what happened to me. When I actually took the time to think about my beliefs, I realized that none of the facts stuck and that I shouldn't be overwhelmed by the supposed miracles that this god character claims to have done without any evidence. This is especially true with the laughable impossibility of most of these fairy tales, like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abedneg being able to chat while in a fire with a person that wasn't put there to begin with that just happened to look like a god. It's nothing more than an interesting story, on par with Harry Potter. Should I start hoping that my children will get a letter delivered by an owl when they turn ten so that they can get accepted to Hogwarts, just because I read about it in a book? In any case, it's hard to get rid of beliefs that were implanted in you when you were young, but if you give even a little thought to it, many religious claims come out to be nothing more than misrepresentations at best and outright lies at worst. The only reason to believe in God is that they claim that you will go to heaven if you do and you will go to hell if you won't, but there is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of such places as well. I didn't exist before I was born and like it or not, I won't exist after I die. No amount of wishful thinking will change my mind, unless I am given overwhelming empirical evidence, although religious types haven't been able to give even a modicum of evidence for their wild, fanciful claims.
well i've been told by many casual christians that they have questioned their beliefs but at the end of it they decided they had "nothing to lose," because if their religion is real, they get to go to heaven -- so why not practice it?
honestly, most Christians don't really care about their religion at all from what i've seen -- but they'll get all offended and try to act all worldy if you question the existence of anything.
if i had a nickel every time I heard, "you can't see air but you believe it exists don't you?"
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Yeah I used to think the same way but I'm better now. Many people don't actually believe, but they think they might be able to get to heaven anyway. Getting offended is a sign of a true idiot. If they thought about it, they would realize just how wrong they are and how ridiculous they are being. That's the truly dangerous thing about religion though. It leads people into a situation in which they just believe what they were told, because they've been told so many times that it seems like truth. It's brainwashing.
I've heard that ridiculous question many times too. The simple response to that is that you can see air. In the winter, you breathe and you can see air right in front of you. It's almost like a miracle, except that it can be seen, experimented with and proved. Also, even if you didn't use instruments to be able to detect its presence, you can feel it. It's such a poor attempt to prove the existence of a god that I can't even begin to understand how they can justify it to themselves, never mind trying to justify it to others.
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Do you usa guys imagine 1 or 2 minarets in center of manhatan or LA? I dont think so , also i dont like this new " rule" but i aboslutely can understand it... What do you think that will happens if some christians want to build a church in saudi arabia or iran? ahaha
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GOOD PERFECT GODLIKE ..
i am rly pissed they not even alow the demo against this fucking big shit in colong germany
good work swizz
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On December 02 2009 09:53 axel wrote:
Do you usa guys imagine 1 or 2 minarets in center of manhatan or LA? I dont think so , also i dont like this new " rule" but i aboslutely can understand it... What do you think that will happens if some christians want to build a church in saudi arabia or iran? ahaha
What I have to understand is that USA or Switzerland are not more tolerant than Iran and Arabia Saudia.
You think what? That there are no fucking church in Marocco, Algeria, Liban?
There is a mosque next to my place in Paris. The muezzin calls people to pray, and people pray. I think that's great, and I am happy for muslim of my country to have a beautiful place to do their religious stuff, and not some sad basement somewhere.
I like Switzerland but I am ashamed for them.
People are scared. Being scared by people different has a name. It's called xenophobia.
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I guess religion = being not analytical or not curious. I'll go tell aquinas, decartes and innumerable other foundational pillars of western philosophy to stop being so analytical and curious, then.
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On December 02 2009 09:58 CoL_Drake wrote:
GOOD PERFECT GODLIKE ..
i am rly pissed they not even alow the demo against this fucking big shit in colong germany
good work swizz
I may get banned for that but you are a racist asshole.
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EPT
