EPTalso whats with jews?
Switzerland bans Minarets - Page 30
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
also whats with jews? | ||
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
Really though, I'm naturally distrusting of anyone who follows their morals because they fear some otherworldly punishment (or desire some otherworldly reward). Especially when all of human knowledge is ready to explain that that 'otherworld' very likely doesn't even exist. Back to minarets, I believe calling this the 'tyranny of the majority' or 'religious suppression' is blowing things out of proportion to the point of becoming off-topic. The real issue here is the clash of culture and religion - one of immigration in Europe. | ||
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HeadhunteR
Argentina1258 Posts
the swiss have the right to make a law against something THEY think is wrong. stop arguing if you think its wrong. From the Swiss point of view their All Swiss dream of swizerland dosnt include minarets. If it is in conflict with their own constitution then that is a problem. | ||
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keepITup
251 Posts
On December 02 2009 12:41 ShaperofDreams wrote: I hate that EVERYTHING is compared to Hitler (and the germs in WWII) now in debates, I guess people think it automatically validates their argument. also whats with jews? lol banning minarets? genocide? what's the difference! ? | ||
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
On December 02 2009 10:04 L wrote: I'll go tell aquinas, decartes and innumerable other foundational pillars of western philosophy to stop being so analytical and curious, then. Let us name the few exceptional people that would have been exceptional anyway (and arguably DESPITE their religion) and ignore the countless numbers who have done horrific things in the name of religion. But then again, they pick and choose from which bible verses that emphasize, why wouldn't they pick and choose people to be their heros and ignore the villains? | ||
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
On November 30 2009 07:52 Foucault wrote: I don't really see a reason to spread religion in the world to be honest. Islam to me is oppression and women being held down by ridiculous religious beliefs. Of course there are nice things to arabic culture, but Islam is not it On December 02 2009 00:06 ggrrg wrote: Yeah sure. It's far better to let them completely bar themselves from society. Since the mosques offer a place to spend time and pass activities, guess where many turks decide to spend all of their time? I honestly cannot imagine how they would integrate in Germany if they continue like this... Agree 100% with these and other similar comments. It's about time we did something about people who refuse to integrate and whose culturesa are a menace to society. Hopefully banning minarets due to the Islamisation of Switzerland will just be the first step to banning these other things as well: Computer games Computer games are full of violence and ridiculous beliefs. They overtly tell people to kill other people and turn to a life of crime. Starcraft to me, especially, is about cruelty to insects and ridiculous beliefs. Of course there are nice things to computers, but computer games is not it. If we do not ban computer games, computer gamers will continue to stay in their bedrooms playing games instead of intergrating with society. Honestly, how can they possibly integrate? Crucifixes and Catholic churches Crucifixes are an important part of Catholicism. Catholicism to me is all about wild sex without usiong condoms and priests molesting little boys. We have to ban crucifixes before this gets out of hand. Churches have to go as well. Catholics all congregate there instead of integrating. This could lead to a very dangerous situation where they just have unprotected sex with each other and breed more dangerous Catholics. Ban churches and crucifixes ASAP. Pornography Pornography to me is all about oppression of women and women being held down by various metal and leather implements. Of course, there are nice things to movies, but pornography is not it. All these porn stars and directors have their own niche markets and their own video awards. We've got to ban all these as well so they can integrate. Hamburgers American culture is all about violence. The right to bear arms is written in the constitution. They also like to invade other countries like Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. of course, America is not ALL about violence, but it's better to get rid of the whole lot of them anyway. The trouble with Americans is that they won't stay in their own country, despite it being so big. They keep going to oither countries where they're not welcome. So we've got to ban hamburgers so all these fat Americans will not feel welcome and will go back to where they came from. Their culture of violence is not welcome anywhere in the world (except maybe Somalia). Synagogues Hitler really should have wiped out the Jews. Did you know that Jewish women have to follow certain rules about behaviour? Judaism is obviously about oppressing women and has to be wiped out. I suppose things have changed now, but back then, in the 1940s, they should have been wiped out. You can't trust anyone to do anything right, honestly. Damnit, thinking about all these people and cutlures and objects and motifs that should be destroyed is really making me mad. Grrrr... Makes me want to beat up some Muslims. I live in a multiracial country, I'm sure I can find one... oh look, there's one. Oh no, she's not wearing a veil, so she can't be Muslim. Because all Muslims wear veils, obviously. | ||
Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On December 02 2009 15:37 The Storyteller wrote: Agree 100% with these and other similar comments. It's about time we did something about people who refuse to integrate and whose culturesa are a menace to society. Hopefully banning minarets due to the Islamisation of Switzerland will just be the first step to banning these other things as well: Computer games Computer games are full of violence and ridiculous beliefs. They overtly tell people to kill other people and turn to a life of crime. Starcraft to me, especially, is about cruelty to insects and ridiculous beliefs. Of course there are nice things to computers, but computer games is not it. If we do not ban computer games, computer gamers will continue to stay in their bedrooms playing games instead of intergrating with society. Honestly, how can they possibly integrate? Crucifixes and Catholic churches Crucifixes are an important part of Catholicism. Catholicism to me is all about wild sex without usiong condoms and priests molesting little boys. We have to ban crucifixes before this gets out of hand. Churches have to go as well. Catholics all congregate there instead of integrating. This could lead to a very dangerous situation where they just have unprotected sex with each other and breed more dangerous Catholics. Ban churches and crucifixes ASAP. Pornography Pornography to me is all about oppression of women and women being held down by various metal and leather implements. Of course, there are nice things to movies, but pornography is not it. All these porn stars and directors have their own niche markets and their own video awards. We've got to ban all these as well so they can integrate. Hamburgers American culture is all about violence. The right to bear arms is written in the constitution. They also like to invade other countries like Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. of course, America is not ALL about violence, but it's better to get rid of the whole lot of them anyway. The trouble with Americans is that they won't stay in their own country, despite it being so big. They keep going to oither countries where they're not welcome. So we've got to ban hamburgers so all these fat Americans will not feel welcome and will go back to where they came from. Their culture of violence is not welcome anywhere in the world (except maybe Somalia). Synagogues Hitler really should have wiped out the Jews. Did you know that Jewish women have to follow certain rules about behaviour? Judaism is obviously about oppressing women and has to be wiped out. I suppose things have changed now, but back then, in the 1940s, they should have been wiped out. You can't trust anyone to do anything right, honestly. Damnit, thinking about all these people and cutlures and objects and motifs that should be destroyed is really making me mad. Grrrr... Makes me want to beat up some Muslims. I live in a multiracial country, I'm sure I can find one... oh look, there's one. Oh no, she's not wearing a veil, so she can't be Muslim. Because all Muslims wear veils, obviously. I approve 100%. The hamburgers one is really convoluted though  | ||
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
On December 02 2009 15:39 Mystlord wrote: I approve 100%. The hamburgers one is really convoluted though No it's not. We need to ban minarets so these damned Muslims won't feel welcome and they'll go away and stop oppressing women. So we need to ban hamburgers so these damned Americans will not feel welcome and will go away and stop being violent. Why can't you understand that? You and your kind, whatever that is, should be banned. | ||
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On December 02 2009 15:41 The Storyteller wrote: No it's not. We need to ban minarets so these damned Muslims won't feel welcome and they'll go away and stop oppressing women. So we need to ban hamburgers so these damned Americans will not feel welcome and will go away and stop being violent. Why can't you understand that? You and your kind, whatever that is, should be banned. Look. The real problem here aren't Americans. It's those damn Conservatives that are screwing us over. So here's what we do to make them feel unwelcome. Legalize gay marriage and abortion. Remove the 2nd amendment from the Constitution. No death penalty. Universal health care, a REAL bailout package that goes to small businesses, and the nationalization of all banks. Those damn conservatives have always been the ones to instigate violence to others. Just look at the south and lynching. Or the KKK. Or those nativists. Gotta drive them all out or they'll pose a threat to America. | ||
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
On December 02 2009 15:37 The Storyteller wrote: Agree 100% with these and other similar comments. It's about time we did something about people who refuse to integrate and whose culturesa are a menace to society. Hopefully banning minarets due to the Islamisation of Switzerland will just be the first step to banning these other things as well: Computer games Computer games are full of violence and ridiculous beliefs. They overtly tell people to kill other people and turn to a life of crime. Starcraft to me, especially, is about cruelty to insects and ridiculous beliefs. Of course there are nice things to computers, but computer games is not it. If we do not ban computer games, computer gamers will continue to stay in their bedrooms playing games instead of intergrating with society. Honestly, how can they possibly integrate? Crucifixes and Catholic churches Crucifixes are an important part of Catholicism. Catholicism to me is all about wild sex without usiong condoms and priests molesting little boys. We have to ban crucifixes before this gets out of hand. Churches have to go as well. Catholics all congregate there instead of integrating. This could lead to a very dangerous situation where they just have unprotected sex with each other and breed more dangerous Catholics. Ban churches and crucifixes ASAP. Pornography Pornography to me is all about oppression of women and women being held down by various metal and leather implements. Of course, there are nice things to movies, but pornography is not it. All these porn stars and directors have their own niche markets and their own video awards. We've got to ban all these as well so they can integrate. Hamburgers American culture is all about violence. The right to bear arms is written in the constitution. They also like to invade other countries like Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. of course, America is not ALL about violence, but it's better to get rid of the whole lot of them anyway. The trouble with Americans is that they won't stay in their own country, despite it being so big. They keep going to oither countries where they're not welcome. So we've got to ban hamburgers so all these fat Americans will not feel welcome and will go back to where they came from. Their culture of violence is not welcome anywhere in the world (except maybe Somalia). Synagogues Hitler really should have wiped out the Jews. Did you know that Jewish women have to follow certain rules about behaviour? Judaism is obviously about oppressing women and has to be wiped out. I suppose things have changed now, but back then, in the 1940s, they should have been wiped out. You can't trust anyone to do anything right, honestly. Damnit, thinking about all these people and cutlures and objects and motifs that should be destroyed is really making me mad. Grrrr... Makes me want to beat up some Muslims. I live in a multiracial country, I'm sure I can find one... oh look, there's one. Oh no, she's not wearing a veil, so she can't be Muslim. Because all Muslims wear veils, obviously. I know that you're just saying this to exaggerate what has been said just to show these people how close-minded they're being, but for some strange reason, I find myself agreeing with many of these positions, even if it's only in principle. I mean, the hamburger one is a bit outlandish and the Jewish one is even more so, but I can understand the other ones and even sympathize. | ||
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
On December 02 2009 15:50 ghostWriter wrote: I know that you're just saying this to exaggerate what has been said just to show these people how close-minded they're being, but for some strange reason, I find myself agreeing with many of these positions, even if it's only in principle. It's to be expected. But the point is that disagreeing with one aspect of a system does not mean you can get rid of the entire system. America may say, "we don't want honour killings here, that would be murder." But it will not say, "honour killings are a part of Islam, so we're banning any symbols of Islam here." Likewise you might say, "we do not support civilians carrying arms, we ban that here." But that should not turn into "The right to bear arms is an American thing, therefore we ban all symbols of America." It's the societies that are the most open and accepting that attract the most talent and improve the fastest, not those who close themsleves off from the rest of the world. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10700 Posts
It's the societies that are the most open and accepting that attract the most talent and improve the fastest, not those who close themsleves off from the rest of the world. It's the societies that pay the most and let you do whatever the fuck you want in your privacy, nothing else... But dream on. | ||
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
On December 02 2009 15:59 The Storyteller wrote: It's to be expected. But the point is that disagreeing with one aspect of a system does not mean you can get rid of the entire system. America may say, "we don't want honour killings here, that would be murder." But it will not say, "honour killings are a part of Islam, so we're banning any symbols of Islam here." Likewise you might say, "we do not support civilians carrying arms, we ban that here." But that should not turn into "The right to bear arms is an American thing, therefore we ban all symbols of America." It's the societies that are the most open and accepting that attract the most talent and improve the fastest, not those who close themsleves off from the rest of the world. Even so, you cannot deny that radical Islam is a legitimate threat and the fears of people in Switzerland aren't completely unfounded, even if they may be somewhat misguided. Also, I believe that immigrants should abide by the desires of their hosts within reasonable bounds, if only to be good neighbors because they are guests. Banning minarets is different from banning mosques. It's similar to how schools ban du-rags, they aren't making a statement against black people in general, they are merely trying to combat the "gangster" image, even though the articles of clothing themselves don't hurt anyone. In any case, even if it is a misguided fear, the Muslims should be able to understand people's concerns, especially when the society they come from tend to be much more intolerant towards others. On December 02 2009 16:07 Velr wrote: It's the societies that pay the most and let you do whatever the fuck you want in your privacy, nothing else... But dream on. Agreed, the world is not as utopian as the way you put it, the Storyteller. | ||
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johanes
Czech Republic2227 Posts
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WhuazGoodJaggah
Lesotho777 Posts
you post bullshit. this initiative has already kicked off very good solution oriented discussions about the real problems with the islam in our culture. we all knew that the minarets are not the real problem. it's things like forced marriage that is done like this: family lives in switzerland, they go to iran/pakistan/wherever force marriage on the children and come back to switzerland. this never gets punished and is just wrong. thats the real problem, but noone ever talked about it. Now we banned minarets and suddenly the real problems are pointed out because minarets got punished as scapegoat. oh, btw cruzifixes are banned in public buildings in europe. considering that, it's ridiculous that minarets may not be banned, k thx bye. | ||
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intruding
157 Posts
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johanes
Czech Republic2227 Posts
On December 02 2009 18:00 intruding wrote: I'm deeply concerned about the popularity of atheism here. Being atheist is as dumb as being religious. Religions and all its interpretations are obviously complete bullshit. But its equally idiotic to reject the existence of God simply because the masses have believed in their erroneous opinions about God over the millenniums. There is indeed a creator. It's just that everything revolving around it that is man-made or spiritual and moral about it, religion, has been utterly misconceived and misinterpreted and has led to bloodshed. God exists, it's just that man's interpretation of it has traditionally been moronic. Therefore; deism should be the religious stance of choice. Agnostism would come second. But please, being a hardcore atheist is very very strange and disturbing. sorry, but if you use brain, then there is simply no reason to believe in god, so being atheist is the only logical choice for me. I consider myself man of science and i would like to hear your reasons for your claim, that there is indeed a creator. Why? How can you be so sure about it? You can't. As well as i can't be really sure that there is no god. I can choose freely not to believe as you can choose to believe. But then to belive is dumb as well, because we have arrived to our conclusions followinfg the same thinking pattern. So don't just please post atheist is dumb. | ||
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
On December 02 2009 18:00 intruding wrote: I'm deeply concerned about the popularity of atheism here. Being atheist is as dumb as being religious. Religions and all its interpretations are obviously complete bullshit. But its equally idiotic to reject the existence of God simply because the masses have believed in their erroneous opinions about God over the millenniums. There is indeed a creator. It's just that everything revolving around it that is man-made or spiritual and moral about it, religion, has been utterly misconceived and misinterpreted and has led to bloodshed. God exists, it's just that man's interpretation of it has traditionally been moronic. Therefore; deism should be the religious stance of choice. Agnostism would come second. But please, being a hardcore atheist is very very strange and disturbing. I probably shouldn't even bother responding to such a ridiculous post, but you do realize that there is absolutely no evidential justification for an image of 'god' in the first place, right? There's no reason for a child growing up armed with the knowledge of the world we have today to actually substitute 'god' in anywhere. A person might eventually ask 'what lies beyond what we know?', but when would they ever assert that there needed to be a god to explain something we cannot yet explain? Notice how I'm not saying 'there is no god' anywhere in here. In fact, the question of whether or not there exists a god is not even relevant, because there's no evidence to even suggest it's worth addressing! What we do have, though, is religion. Religion exists, and we can actually talk about that. On December 02 2009 15:37 The Storyteller wrote: Attempted sarcasm Sure, the hardcore anti-Islamic position presented in support of this banning seems rather silly when we're only talking about minarets here, but it is the same with all politics. You aim small in order to get people talking about what you think are the real issues - to set the framework of the discussion more on your terms. However, it's not realistic to assume everyone who voted for this ban has that type of ideology. There is a very obvious clash of cultures occurring in Europe these days, and I wouldn't be surprised if many people felt that construction of extremely apparent foreign symbols were detracting from the Swiss culture. Obviously, there is still religious freedom in Switzerland, unless for some odd reason you feel that not being able to construct certain large buildings restricts religious freedom. In that case, I think you'd be drawing the line much too far away from reality. | ||
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WhuazGoodJaggah
Lesotho777 Posts
On December 02 2009 18:26 johanes wrote: sorry, but if you use brain, then there is simply no reason to believe in god, so being atheist is the only logical choice for me. I consider myself man of science and i would like to hear your reasons for your claim, that there is indeed a creator. Why? How can you be so sure about it? You can't. As well as i can't be really sure that there is no god. I can choose freely not to believe as you can choose to believe. But then to belive is dumb as well, because we have arrived to our conclusions followinfg the same thinking pattern. So don't just please post atheist is dumb. Thats Agnostism you describe. (Not beeing sure whether there is a god or not) Atheism is mostly not even questioning whether there could be a god or not. The inexistance of god is taken as fact. I too don't get why deism is the one to go with. Why has there to be a single god? Why can't there be multiple gods? Why can't there be no god at all? | ||
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intruding
157 Posts
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